Is Mass Effect 2 the greatsest RPG of all time?

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]"I play a role, so its a role-playing game." is not a valid reason Explain to me how Mass Effect 2 is a better role-playing game than New Vegas. And use examples.haberman13

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

padaporra

[QUOTE="haberman13"][QUOTE="Heil68"] I'm not comparing games to one another, I'm simply stating ME2 is an RPG. I also stated I wont play NV until they properly fix it. I own the PC version of NV and wont think about installing that pile of crap until then. Games like Mass Effect 2 allow players to make many game-altering choices in dialogues and events, while still maintaining their respective action elements, whether they be in the first person or the third person. You also have upgradable weapons, armor and skill tree's for you and your teammates as well as an upgradeable N7 ship which has a HUGE impact on the game. :oHeil68

if you've ever played a tabletop, you'd know.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

HAZE-Unit

The Wrpg lite level!!!

Console Mainstream?

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="haberman13"]So you won't play a game heralded as an epic RPG because of some *cough* bugs *cough* (you've never played a Bethesda game have you?)ME2 is an RPG in the same way 300 is a romance movie, sure, there is romance ... but you're kinda missing the bigger picture.Firebird-5

if you've ever played a tabletop, you'd know.

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

padaporra

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"] What defines if a game is an RPG then? I have played just about every Bethesda ever made and I got to the point I don't want to play their games because they don't want to put the game through a QA department before release. I'll wait till they or modders fix it. Heil68

if you've ever played a tabletop, you'd know.

wow you sure showed me. it's not really my problem if you can't comprehend simple sentences. over literal people like you are the main problem

This "ME2 ain't RPG" argument is one of the stupidest I've ever seen. *sigh*

Just cos a game does something slightly different than the rest of its genre, doesn't mean it gets kicked out of that genre.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

if you've ever played a tabletop, you'd know.

Firebird-5

wow you sure showed me

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

lawlessx

the greatest shooter

This "ME2 ain't RPG" argument is one of the stupidest I've ever seen. *sigh*

Just cos a game does something slightly different than the rest of its genre, doesn't mean it gets kicked out of that genre.

N7v1K0

Really? So Halo becomes a dice rolling game instead of a shooter and its still a shooter?

ME1 was effectively a dice roller, cleverly masked ala Oblivion.... ME2 was a straight shooter.

Either ME2 is a failure RPG, or a decent (if not overly simple) shooter.

Lets be honest, ducking behind halfwalls is NOT fun ... I understand why the console games are developed this way, because controllers are too frustrating to actually aim with ... but come on.

Hell no. Being pretty and epic =/= good RPG.

ME 2 has a good balance of good/evil choice and gray choices. The Witcher is one that should be made fun of. Just because a game goes against what 95% of the developers do, doesn't mean it's anymore right. I don't live in a world surrounded by all gray choices.

smerlus

:|

No, ME2 is all good/evil, there is never any grey, thats why there is red and blue, and not all white options.

The Witcher does grey choices perfectly, nothing wrong with going against the developer norm, in The Witcher, many choices have to do with altering the plot, not altering whether you save puppies or drown nuns like in ME/ME2. Many Witcher choices show up later in the game and you can be like "damn I should have probably not picked x option earlier", that pretty much never happenes in ME since all choices are immediatly obvious or eternally pointless.

The Witcher is a much better RPG than ME or ME2.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

edo-tensei

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"] So a game needs pen and paper to be a RPG then? mmkHeil68

wow you sure showed me

video games already have elements from tabletop rpgs. ever played ultima? it's part of the reason why oblivion was a success. comparing games where you can shape the world and carve your own adventures to 'a game where you get money and level up' is narrow minded at best.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

edo-tensei

Agreed. It is the same reason reality TV is popular ... you don't need to think or do anything other than some repetitive meanial task to "win". example: half wall combat

Put ME2 on insanity, is the game harder? NO, it just takes LONGER to kill an enemy, which is incrediblly easy because all you have to do is duck and wait it out.

The deer hunter game in hick bars takes more skill.

It's one year in development too.GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]It's one year in development too.IronBass

] I was talking bout DA : II. GeneralShowzer

Biowares new philosophy is "less content, more "awesomeness", more profits"

They lost what made them great, only SWTOR has a chance to redeem their depth/intelligence/mechanics.

I do expect ME3 to be a slight reversal of the dumb though, they have acknowledged they cut out too much from ME1.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

wow you sure showed me

110million

video games already have elements from tabletop rpgs. ever played ultima? it's part of the reason why oblivion was a success. comparing games where you can shape the world and carve your own adventures to 'a game where you get money and level up' is narrow minded at best.

Biowares new philosophy is "less content, more "awesomeness", more profits"haberman13

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Devs don't want to spend years working on projects anymore, they just want 1-2 years cash ins. Gamers also want simplier games, just look at cod, the most simple to get into shooter and it's the most popular now. I'm waiting for somebody to make a breakthrough to revive this staggering industry.IronBass

Biowares new philosophy is "less content, more "awesomeness", more profits"

They lost what made them great, only SWTOR has a chance to redeem their depth/intelligence/mechanics.

haberman13

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="lawlessx"] by scraping most of the game's rpg elements and turning it into an action shooter with some stats to mess with?haberman13

[QUOTE="110million"]

[QUOTE="smerlus"] I wasn't trying to "show" you anything. You brought up tabletop RPG's and I'm not sure why when we're discussing the video game outlet of RPG's. I could only assume that you meant the video game medium needs elements from the tabletop games to be considered a RPG. Is this correct? Heil68

video games already have elements from tabletop rpgs. ever played ultima? it's part of the reason why oblivion was a success. comparing games where you can shape the world and carve your own adventures to 'a game where you get money and level up' is narrow minded at best.

No. True RPGs are holistic. ME2 has RPG elements, but at its core it's just a polished TPS with an upgrade system tacked on.

Biowares new philosophy is "less content, more "awesomeness", more profits"

They lost what made them great, only SWTOR has a chance to redeem their depth/intelligence/mechanics.

ME2 is a great game,but not alot of room for customizing. Its just 4 ablities to upgrade and a few guns. Like most said its more likea tps with some light rpg elements in it like choice and level up.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="110million"]

video games already have elements from tabletop rpgs. ever played ultima? it's part of the reason why oblivion was a success. comparing games where you can shape the world and carve your own adventures to 'a game where you get money and level up' is narrow minded at best.

Firebird-5

No. True RPGs are holistic. ME2 has RPG elements, but at its core it's just a polished TPS with an upgrade system tacked on.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"]

[QUOTE="lawlessx"] by scraping most of the game's rpg elements and turning it into an action shooter with some stats to mess with?

Agreed. It is the same reason reality TV is popular ... you don't need to think or do anything other than some repetitive meanial task to "win". example: half wall combat

Put ME2 on insanity, is the game harder? NO, it just takes LONGER to kill an enemy, which is incrediblly easy because all you have to do is duck and wait it out.

The deer hunter game in hick bars takes more skill.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"] So in your opinion ME2 has *no* RPG elements so it should be considered a shooter, such as Lost Planet, Army of Two, Gears of War, ect?Heil68

No. True RPGs are holistic. ME2 has RPG elements, but at its core it's just a polished TPS with an upgrade system tacked on.

this whole argument is one of semantics. if someone can come up with a distinction that would be great. but probably not for marketing, so it's not going to happen until the community as a whole agrees. which won't happen either.

Biowares new philosophy is "less content, more "awesomeness", more profits"

They lost what made them great, only SWTOR has a chance to redeem their depth/intelligence/mechanics.

ME2 is a great game,but not alot of room for customizing. Its just 4 ablities to upgrade and a few guns. Like most said its more likea tps with some light rpg elements in it like choice and level up.

finalfantasy94

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

No. True RPGs are holistic. ME2 has RPG elements, but at its core it's just a polished TPS with an upgrade system tacked on.

Firebird-5

this whole argument is one of semantics. if someone can come up with a distinction that would be great. but probably not for marketing, so it's not going to happen until the community as a whole agrees. which won't happen either.

Now this is purely subjective, you cant compare me2 with fallout, they are two differant games with differant goals.

pl4yer_f0und

Just cos a game does something slightly different than the rest of its genre, doesn't mean it gets kicked out of that genre.

N7v1K0

[...] only SWTOR has a chance to redeem their depth/intelligence/mechanics. [...] haberman13

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="110million"] They certainly have changed philosophies to appeal to a larger audiance, which from a financial point of view, is perfectly fine, I would be stupid to say they should make games that target smaller audiances, but the bioware of today that says no one wants combat that looks like there is dice rolls going on in the background, would be a bioware that is absolutely digusting to the bioware of old. (This is about DA not ME) Heil68

Best TPS ... absolutely.

Best RPG ... wait, its an RPG?

haberman13

basically what I think

Because the TC played the game multiple times and formed his own opinion based on other RPG's he has played in the past? :P I also asked for others opinions on what their greatest RPG of all time is and have commented respectfully ont hose few that have actually done that. Heil68

RPGs are one of the most expansive genres, some are based around choice and plot development, some are based around character builds and dungeon crawling, I could never tell you "Persona 4 is my favorite RPG" without tacking on something like "of last-gen" or "out of traditional RPGs" or something similar.

I can accept ME2 as an RPG, but only in such a way that it results in it being a weak RPG. It includes elements of an RPG in such a half-assed way that the only way I could see it being a AAA title, would be through its non-RPG gameplay elements. Character customization, you get a handfull of skills, 2 of which are just bullet types. Weapons don't have stats, just descriptions, armor is similar, and rare to find new armor sets. Party customization is similar, and more limited, removing the ability to change their armors (something they did for DA II as well for god knows why).

I believe some of these changes do make the game better, they all have some nice looking armor so it would be a pity to change them with constant generic ones like in ME1. Removing the RPG elements from ME1 that bogged the game down like horrible inventory management made ME2 a much better game, but it all leads to it being barely an RPG at all, this is why ME2 is better than ME1, for its removal of RPG elements.

This is why it fails as an RPG, because it was RPG elements that brought ME1 down, and their removal that made ME2 better.

[QUOTE="N7v1K0"]

This "ME2 ain't RPG" argument is one of the stupidest I've ever seen. *sigh*

Just cos a game does something slightly different than the rest of its genre, doesn't mean it gets kicked out of that genre.

haberman13

Really? So Halo becomes a dice rolling game instead of a shooter and its still a shooter?

ME1 was effectively a dice roller, cleverly masked ala Oblivion.... ME2 was a straight shooter.

Either ME2 is a failure RPG, or a decent (if not overly simple) shooter.

Lets be honest, ducking behind halfwalls is NOT fun ... I understand why the console games are developed this way, because controllers are too frustrating to actually aim with ... but come on.

What do you mean "ME1 was a dice-roller"? Its combat is technically the same as ME2. It's not turn-based and guess what, you still take cover behind crates half the time if you wanna live.

As for dialogues - they're still there. Powers - still there. Inventory - still there but in a simplified form. Consequences from your actions - still there.

I don't think there's any shooter that can offer you all that, meaning, wow! ME2 is an RPG :roll:

Inventory - still there but in a simplified form. N7v1K0

Its between taht and KOTOR for me, and both are Bioware games to boot.

*sigh* Typical system wars drivel. I hope fans of the series realize this is another case of a vocal minority. I mean the critic AND user scores on BOTH the PC AND Xbox versions speak for themselves. I would debate the points made in this topic but I have exams to revise for and do not want to waste my time arguing with people too in love with the sound of their own voice and opinions.

[QUOTE="N7v1K0"]Inventory - still there but in a simplified form. 110million

Gun lockers and Shepard's wardrobe. Still qualifies as a form of inventory.