Is PC gaming dying?

Next time research first, spout nonsense later.

Materia_Ashes

Next time know what my post implies (research).

Next time know what my post implies (research).

Trmpt

So please do enlighten me as to what you're implying... In your scenario, PC gaming dies out and so as a result dedicated GPU dies out as well. Intel would be happy and the movie industry wouldn't give a damn because their render farms are still being upgraded with the new Xeons... Gaming however suffers because now everything will have to be done through CPU instead of GPU. How is this a good thing?

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

Next time know what my post implies (research).

Materia_Ashes

So please do enlighten me as to what you're implying... In your scenario, PC gaming dies out and so as a result dedicated GPU dies out as well. Intel would be happy and the movie industry wouldn't give a damn because their render farms are still being upgraded with the new Xeons... Gaming however suffers because now everything will have to be done through CPU instead of GPU. How is this a good thing?

There you go.

And no, this would not be a good thing.

I guess you could look at how much the cgi in movies have improved over the years to get an idea of how much the games graphics would improve.

Trmpt

How is the GPUs application in pre-rendered video possibly applicable to real time graphics in games?

Take pixel shader 4, why would there be a reason to develop PS 4.0 between console generations? You may argue the R&D would be done for the next generation consoles. Well what about pixel shader 5? PS 5.0 was developed based on what they learned from PS 4.0, it will be ready for the next generation consoles after being developed and tested on PC.

If it wasn't for PC there wouldn't be a pixel shader 5 ready for the next generation of consoles, it's the same for any other technology. You cannot replicate that without the technology being used in games and improved on, which just doesn't happen in either films or fixed hardware consoles.

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

I guess you could look at how much the cgi in movies have improved over the years to get an idea of how much the games graphics would improve.

AnnoyedDragon

How is the GPUs application in pre-rendered video possibly applicable to real time graphics in games?

Take pixel shader 4, why would there be a reason to develop PS 4.0 between console generations? You may argue the R&D would be done for the next generation consoles. Well what about pixel shader 5? PS 5.0 was developed based on what they learned from PS 4.0, it will be ready for the next generation consoles after being developed and tested on PC.

If it wasn't for PC there wouldn't be a pixel shader 5 ready for the next generation of consoles, it's the same for any other technology. You cannot replicate that without the technology being used in games and improved on, which just doesn't happen in either films or fixed hardware consoles.

There you go.

And no, this would not be a good thing.

Trmpt

So you were trying to reenforce the original point that all gaming would suffer if the PC gaming industry died out? FYI prerendered graphics have already achieved photorealism. You can check it out here and here.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] i doubt the architectures are really that different if anything they probably have a couple of numbers they play with in a hardware description languange, to increase vertex setups because normally most of what they are doing is modeling with thouse, changing a few numbers around could radically change the transistor count, and even if they didn't do it for PC"s someone would have for a console, i mean, they didn't put custom grahpics cards in till ps3, xbox, gamecube, before that they all had their own custom made graphics cards. What i will agree with is, as budgets skyrocket the standardizations of PC gaming probably lowered the costs for dev's when they can use opengl, directx type of calls. And with the new unified architectures, they probably don't even need to change that much around between a dev card and end user card, dev cards can use all those cuda engines as vertex setups, and even the new nvidia 300 series i beleive is all the same architecture, with up to 1.5gb aimed at end users and 6gb aimed at devs.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

There you go.

And no, this would not be a good thing.

Materia_Ashes

So you were trying to reenforce the original point that all gaming would suffer if the PC gaming industry died out? FYI prerendered graphics have already achieved photorealism. You can check it out here and here.

No, my point was that cgi would still improve through hollywood, that goes along with what you said as well but it still wasnt the point that I was trying to make.

And that isnt photo realism.

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

That has been said before; I'll make my point again, if PC gaming dropped off the face of the earth it wouldnt mean the end of graphics advancement at all. Why? The movie industry pours millions into cgi, they want advancement just as much as the video game industry.

This is a gaming GPU, this is a workstation GPU, they are not the same.

Workstation GPUs are bad for gaming, you cannot simply take the R&D for workstation GPUs and match development as if there was demand for gaming GPUs.

it is because pc gamers are realizing consoles are getting more better games with better graphics

it is because pc gamers are realizing consoles are getting more better games with better graphics

bigM10231

Ludicrous nonsense.

All those Counterstrike and Starcraft fans are just blind PC fanboys then, right?

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

That has been said before; I'll make my point again, if PC gaming dropped off the face of the earth it wouldnt mean the end of graphics advancement at all. Why? The movie industry pours millions into cgi, they want advancement just as much as the video game industry.

TheBigBadGRIM

This is a gaming GPU, this is a workstation GPU, they are not the same.

Workstation GPUs are bad for gaming, you cannot simply take the R&D for workstation GPUs and match development as if there was demand for gaming GPUs.

lol......yeah I know right. Why would the movie industry want to keep improving CGI, I mean, there really is no demand to do so whatsoever so I have no clue where that ignorance came from. /sarcasm

[QUOTE="TheBigBadGRIM"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

This is a gaming GPU, this is a workstation GPU, they are not the same.

Workstation GPUs are bad for gaming, you cannot simply take the R&D for workstation GPUs and match development as if there was demand for gaming GPUs.

Trmpt

lol......yeah I know right. Why would the movie industry want to keep improving CGI, I mean, there really is no demand to do so whatsoever so I have no clue where that ignorance came from. /sarcasm

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

[QUOTE="TheBigBadGRIM"] Rofl Dragon, that ignorant post of his just made my day.Danm_999

lol......yeah I know right. Why would the movie industry want to keep improving CGI, I mean, there really is no demand to do so whatsoever so I have no clue where that ignorance came from. /sarcasm

It is improvment that would happen with or without the video game industry/end of story

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Trmpt"]

lol......yeah I know right. Why would the movie industry want to keep improving CGI, I mean, there really is no demand to do so whatsoever so I have no clue where that ignorance came from. /sarcasm

Trmpt

It is improvment that would happen with or without the video game industry/end of story

but it wouldnt happen in the gaming industry end of story.

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

In what sense can you consider the health of PC gaming anything other than excellent and expansionary?

Danm_999

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

I guess you could look at how much the cgi in movies have improved over the years to get an idea of how much the games graphics would improve.

AnnoyedDragon

How is the GPUs application in pre-rendered video possibly applicable to real time graphics in games?

If it wasn't for PC there wouldn't be a pixel shader 5 ready for the next generation of consoles, it's the same for any other technology. You cannot replicate that without the technology being used in games and improved on, which just doesn't happen in either films or fixed hardware consoles.

There will always be a push to make games more realistic, you don't need a pc gaming market for that. The same engineers that work at Nvidia can work for Microsoft.

The most you can argue is that graphics tech will slow without the same push from the pc gaming market, which I would agree with. However I don't think it matters that much at this point. We're reaching a tech plateau with gaming graphics, differences between gpu generations are less significant in terms of tech. If they froze the current tech level for 5 or even 10 years I could care less.

dc337

i agree yet disagree. the only reason weve hit a plateau is due to less of a push from develoeprs due to a mutliplatform focus and due to rising costs. it isnt a matter of us having acheived graphics good enough.

the tech itself has changed significantly in the past and even as it changes from dx10 to 11 is still quite a change.

the leap from what was out to crysis was huge. its still huge since nothing has touched it tech wise.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

[QUOTE="dc337"] Fewer exclusives that are designed to push pc hardware compared to last gen.

Less diversity in exclusives, too many are either rts or mmorpg.

Traditional pc developers going multiplat or console only.

The sports genre is pretty much dead on the pc.

I wouldn't say that pc gaming is dying as a whole but a lot of the recent growth has been in casual sales and mmorpg subscriptions.

dc337

Some genres are clearly not as healthy as they used to be and there was a time when pc gaming was expanding in all areas.dc337

As a whole it has expanded in revenue but a lot of that growth is isolated in a few genres like mmorpg and casual. Take away that growth and you have an industry in decline.

dc337

I'll pretend growth in the PC industry only comes from MMORPGs and casual (???). So then, why do we ignore these things? If I ignored what I considered to be casual in the console market (the Wii), the console industry has bottomed out.

The fact is, if you count the genre representation amongst all systems; the PC has the exclusives in more than any other. Even the 'contested' genres of FPS, racers, sports are all doing extremely well on the PC, off the top of my head this year alone we've had Arma 2, Out of the Park Baseball, Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009, Football Manager Live, Burnout Paradise (non-exclusive), Call of Juarez (non-exclusive), The Last Remnant (non-exclusive).

Ill give you the short answer..................................NOT EVEN CLOSE TO!

No. slightly off topic though but, who thinks Valve should stop with L4D2 and just make HL2 ep3?

No. slightly off topic though but, who thinks Valve should stop with L4D2 and just make HL2 ep3?

brumley53

No. slightly off topic though but, who thinks Valve should stop with L4D2 and just make HL2 ep3?

brumley53

they are. its two different teams. L4D2 has former turtle rock studio

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Trmpt"]That has been said before; I'll make my point again, if PC gaming dropped off the face of the earth it wouldnt mean the end of graphics advancement at all. Why? The movie industry pours millions into cgi, they want advancement just as much as the video game industry.Trmpt

I've said this before and I'll say it again; the workbench GPUs championed by the movie industry are not at all conducive to video games. They are too expensive and the technology isn't great for gaming. Yes, there would be a huge blowback on console graphics if the PC industry sank.

Maybe I have to make myself clear, if every type of video game ceases to exist.........the movie industry would still want advancement.

And thank you for proving my point.

THe biggest downside to death of PCgaming would be lack of new talent in the industry. Now it's a river, kill PCgaming and the new talent influx will resemble a tiny stream

I hope the PC gaming isn't going to die. What will progress consoles forward if it weren't for PC gaming.

[QUOTE="Trmpt"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"] You're just making it worse. You do realise there are massive differences between what movies require of CGI, and advancements in video game graphics?washd123

It is improvment that would happen with or without the video game industry/end of story

but it wouldnt happen in the gaming industry end of story.