Metro LL's chief technical officer cofirms PS4 2x comparable PC in power.

All i see is loose baseless statements from devs, Just like all the "Cloudz are so magical" ,  But when the facts start to show, It paints a different picture. 

 

Such a shame was it that not even the PS4 thats stronger than the Xbox one , could match the might of GTX 680 when playing the UNREAL ENGINE 4 ELEMENTAL DEMO.  Such a shame that all the so called powahhhhhhhhhh couldnt shine threw to beat the so called NON OPTIMIZED PC. 

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/Editorial/Epic-Games-disappointed-PS4-and-Xbox-One         EPIC GAMES (CREATORS OF UNREAL ENGINE FOUR)

2x as much power? hahahahahah  If it was 2x as much power, It should have given more performance than a gtx 680 in the UNREAL ENGINE 4 demo.   What happened? ps4 struggled.. They had to downgrade the engine to get the ps4 version to run...

 

 

Now lets play devils advocate and "PRETEND" to go along with these cows and say, "hey guys", we give you the benefit of the doubt despite the contradictory evidence against this so called optimization being 2x " and really say . Ps4 is 2x

Well lets see what it has to compare with.

My cpu , the i5 3570k , which runs at 4.1 Ghz for my small overclock, Is at the very least 8 to 9 times more powerful than the playstation 4 CPU.

Lets put crap into perspective shall we? 

ps4 has a 1.6ghz 8 core jaguar CPU, likewise for the Xbox one.  AMD's best cpu on the market for pc is an 8 core 4.2 ghz cpu (the FX 8350).   Read it again, 8 CORES AT 4.2 GHZ.  And guess what, INTEL 4 core i5 3570k Beats it at 3.4 ghz, Far less for an easy overclock to 4.1 ghz on the i5 3570k. 

NOW DO THE MATHS YOU IGNORANANT CONSOLITES. PC Cpu's ROASTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT any next gen console cpu.

 

Where is most of the API OVERHEAD HANDLED ? IN THE CPU... even if hermits dont feel like argueing the overestimated myth about consoles having 2x the performance of same comparible specs. How you consolites going to argue against pc's that have 8x 9x 10x the performance of consoles of which for example i own?????     Its not like an I5 3570k is expensive. Its fit into a under 1000$ build nicely.

Then you want to talk teraflops on the gpu, xbox with 1.2 of which 90% is used (LOL)  and ps4 with 1.8. And then look at whats being offered on pc       such as the 7970 ghz has 4.3 teraflops, which is more than 2x .. It just leaves me saying meh, why am i even bothering pointing this out  to you consolites. even if hermits are lazy and dont feel like arguing, we win by default just for brute force.  

Just keep chanting POWAH TO THE CELL AND CLOUD, Maybe the gaming gods will hear you some time. Oh thats right, all gods are fake. 

lunar1122

[QUOTE="call_of_duty_10"]

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

 

But it's not.

A single 7850 will perform similar to a PS4 and an overclocked 7850 will be better.

An 8600gt is similar in power to the current consoles and you don't see consoles blowing it away.

The talking about API overhead on PC is from the CPU side and it doesn't cost much to get a PC CPU that is much stronger than the one in consoles to offset that overhead.

ronvalencia

800x600

low settings

avg 25 fps without fraps

Console version is better.

On basic compute, 8600 GT has 114 GFLOPS while Xenos has 240 GFLOPS.

PS4 has 1.8 teraflops while 670 has 2.5 teraflops and 670 is a midrange card.

[QUOTE="lunar1122"]

All i see is loose baseless statements from devs, Just like all the "Cloudz are so magical" ,  But when the facts start to show, It paints a different picture. 

 

Such a shame was it that not even the PS4 thats stronger than the Xbox one , could match the might of GTX 680 when playing the UNREAL ENGINE 4 ELEMENTAL DEMO.  Such a shame that all the so called powahhhhhhhhhh couldnt shine threw to beat the so called NON OPTIMIZED PC. 

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/Editorial/Epic-Games-disappointed-PS4-and-Xbox-One         EPIC GAMES (CREATORS OF UNREAL ENGINE FOUR)

2x as much power? hahahahahah  If it was 2x as much power, It should have given more performance than a gtx 680 in the UNREAL ENGINE 4 demo.   What happened? ps4 struggled.. They had to downgrade the engine to get the ps4 version to run...

 

 

Now lets play devils advocate and "PRETEND" to go along with these cows and say, "hey guys", we give you the benefit of the doubt despite the contradictory evidence against this so called optimization being 2x " and really say . Ps4 is 2x

Well lets see what it has to compare with.

My cpu , the i5 3570k , which runs at 4.1 Ghz for my small overclock, Is at the very least 8 to 9 times more powerful than the playstation 4 CPU.

Lets put crap into perspective shall we? 

ps4 has a 1.6ghz 8 core jaguar CPU, likewise for the Xbox one.  AMD's best cpu on the market for pc is an 8 core 4.2 ghz cpu (the FX 8350).   Read it again, 8 CORES AT 4.2 GHZ.  And guess what, INTEL 4 core i5 3570k Beats it at 3.4 ghz, Far less for an easy overclock to 4.1 ghz on the i5 3570k. 

NOW DO THE MATHS YOU IGNORANANT CONSOLITES. PC Cpu's ROASTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT any next gen console cpu.

 

Where is most of the API OVERHEAD HANDLED ? IN THE CPU... even if hermits dont feel like argueing the overestimated myth about consoles having 2x the performance of same comparible specs. How you consolites going to argue against pc's that have 8x 9x 10x the performance of consoles of which for example i own?????     Its not like an I5 3570k is expensive. Its fit into a under 1000$ build nicely.

Then you want to talk teraflops on the gpu, xbox with 1.2 of which 90% is used (LOL)  and ps4 with 1.8. And then look at whats being offered on pc       such as the 7970 ghz has 4.3 teraflops, which is more than 2x .. It just leaves me saying meh, why am i even bothering pointing this out  to you consolites. even if hermits are lazy and dont feel like arguing, we win by default just for brute force.  

Just keep chanting POWAH TO THE CELL AND CLOUD, Maybe the gaming gods will hear you some time. Oh thats right, all gods are fake. 

gpuking

Yeah, how dare he said anything against the mighty PS4, with low level access (even though they don't even know what low level means) PS4 will output 1000petaflops. :D

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="lunar1122"]

All i see is loose baseless statements from devs, Just like all the "Cloudz are so magical" ,  But when the facts start to show, It paints a different picture. 

 

Such a shame was it that not even the PS4 thats stronger than the Xbox one , could match the might of GTX 680 when playing the UNREAL ENGINE 4 ELEMENTAL DEMO.  Such a shame that all the so called powahhhhhhhhhh couldnt shine threw to beat the so called NON OPTIMIZED PC. 

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/Editorial/Epic-Games-disappointed-PS4-and-Xbox-One         EPIC GAMES (CREATORS OF UNREAL ENGINE FOUR)

2x as much power? hahahahahah  If it was 2x as much power, It should have given more performance than a gtx 680 in the UNREAL ENGINE 4 demo.   What happened? ps4 struggled.. They had to downgrade the engine to get the ps4 version to run...

 

 

Now lets play devils advocate and "PRETEND" to go along with these cows and say, "hey guys", we give you the benefit of the doubt despite the contradictory evidence against this so called optimization being 2x " and really say . Ps4 is 2x

Well lets see what it has to compare with.

My cpu , the i5 3570k , which runs at 4.1 Ghz for my small overclock, Is at the very least 8 to 9 times more powerful than the playstation 4 CPU.

Lets put crap into perspective shall we? 

ps4 has a 1.6ghz 8 core jaguar CPU, likewise for the Xbox one.  AMD's best cpu on the market for pc is an 8 core 4.2 ghz cpu (the FX 8350).   Read it again, 8 CORES AT 4.2 GHZ.  And guess what, INTEL 4 core i5 3570k Beats it at 3.4 ghz, Far less for an easy overclock to 4.1 ghz on the i5 3570k. 

NOW DO THE MATHS YOU IGNORANANT CONSOLITES. PC Cpu's ROASTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT any next gen console cpu.

 

Where is most of the API OVERHEAD HANDLED ? IN THE CPU... even if hermits dont feel like argueing the overestimated myth about consoles having 2x the performance of same comparible specs. How you consolites going to argue against pc's that have 8x 9x 10x the performance of consoles of which for example i own?????     Its not like an I5 3570k is expensive. Its fit into a under 1000$ build nicely.

Then you want to talk teraflops on the gpu, xbox with 1.2 of which 90% is used (LOL)  and ps4 with 1.8. And then look at whats being offered on pc       such as the 7970 ghz has 4.3 teraflops, which is more than 2x .. It just leaves me saying meh, why am i even bothering pointing this out  to you consolites. even if hermits are lazy and dont feel like arguing, we win by default just for brute force.  

Just keep chanting POWAH TO THE CELL AND CLOUD, Maybe the gaming gods will hear you some time. Oh thats right, all gods are fake. 

zeeshanhaider

Yeah, how dare he said anything against the mighty PS4, with low level access (even though they don't even know what low level means) PS4 will output 1000petaflops. :D

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

On what games? Why not compare 7850 CF against 7970? This reduces game code bias factors between GPU vendors.

 

 

Normal 7970 is still faster than normal 7850 CF.

DragonfireXZ95

The Radeon crossfire 7850 that you are pointing to is 2GB.  We all know that PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 ram, now Look dirctly ABOVE the 7970 figures you pointed  out...THE 7850 CROSSFIRE VERSION WITH 4GB OF RAM BEATS THE 7970!!!.

So saying a normal 7970 beats a normal CF 7850 wouldn't really work for PS4 since the biggest difference in performance here for 7850 came from additional  Ram which PS4 has 7GB of GDDR5 to use.

Don't know what kind of point you were trying to make here but it's completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

:lol:

Bullshit.

All i see is loose baseless statements from devs, Just like all the "Cloudz are so magical" ,  But when the facts start to show, It paints a different picture. 

 

Such a shame was it that not even the PS4 thats stronger than the Xbox one , could match the might of GTX 680 when playing the UNREAL ENGINE 4 ELEMENTAL DEMO.  Such a shame that all the so called powahhhhhhhhhh couldnt shine threw to beat the so called NON OPTIMIZED PC. 

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/Editorial/Epic-Games-disappointed-PS4-and-Xbox-One         EPIC GAMES (CREATORS OF UNREAL ENGINE FOUR)

2x as much power? hahahahahah  If it was 2x as much power, It should have given more performance than a gtx 680 in the UNREAL ENGINE 4 demo.   What happened? ps4 struggled.. They had to downgrade the engine to get the ps4 version to run...

 

 

Now lets play devils advocate and "PRETEND" to go along with these cows and say, "hey guys", we give you the benefit of the doubt despite the contradictory evidence against this so called optimization being 2x " and really say . Ps4 is 2x

Well lets see what it has to compare with.

My cpu , the i5 3570k , which runs at 4.1 Ghz for my small overclock, Is at the very least 8 to 9 times more powerful than the playstation 4 CPU.

Lets put crap into perspective shall we? 

ps4 has a 1.6ghz 8 core jaguar CPU, likewise for the Xbox one.  AMD's best cpu on the market for pc is an 8 core 4.2 ghz cpu (the FX 8350).   Read it again, 8 CORES AT 4.2 GHZ.  And guess what, INTEL 4 core i5 3570k Beats it at 3.4 ghz, Far less for an easy overclock to 4.1 ghz on the i5 3570k. 

NOW DO THE MATHS YOU IGNORANANT CONSOLITES. PC Cpu's ROASTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT any next gen console cpu.

 

Where is most of the API OVERHEAD HANDLED ? IN THE CPU... even if hermits dont feel like argueing the overestimated myth about consoles having 2x the performance of same comparible specs. How you consolites going to argue against pc's that have 8x 9x 10x the performance of consoles of which for example i own?????     Its not like an I5 3570k is expensive. Its fit into a under 1000$ build nicely.

Then you want to talk teraflops on the gpu, xbox with 1.2 of which 90% is used (LOL)  and ps4 with 1.8. And then look at whats being offered on pc       such as the 7970 ghz has 4.3 teraflops, which is more than 2x .. It just leaves me saying meh, why am i even bothering pointing this out  to you consolites. even if hermits are lazy and dont feel like arguing, we win by default just for brute force.  

Just keep chanting POWAH TO THE CELL AND CLOUD, Maybe the gaming gods will hear you some time. Oh thats right, all gods are fake. 

lunar1122

[QUOTE="lunar1122"]

All i see is loose baseless statements from devs, Just like all the "Cloudz are so magical" ,  But when the facts start to show, It paints a different picture. 

 

Such a shame was it that not even the PS4 thats stronger than the Xbox one , could match the might of GTX 680 when playing the UNREAL ENGINE 4 ELEMENTAL DEMO.  Such a shame that all the so called powahhhhhhhhhh couldnt shine threw to beat the so called NON OPTIMIZED PC. 

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/Editorial/Epic-Games-disappointed-PS4-and-Xbox-One         EPIC GAMES (CREATORS OF UNREAL ENGINE FOUR)

2x as much power? hahahahahah  If it was 2x as much power, It should have given more performance than a gtx 680 in the UNREAL ENGINE 4 demo.   What happened? ps4 struggled.. They had to downgrade the engine to get the ps4 version to run...

 

 

Now lets play devils advocate and "PRETEND" to go along with these cows and say, "hey guys", we give you the benefit of the doubt despite the contradictory evidence against this so called optimization being 2x " and really say . Ps4 is 2x

Well lets see what it has to compare with.

My cpu , the i5 3570k , which runs at 4.1 Ghz for my small overclock, Is at the very least 8 to 9 times more powerful than the playstation 4 CPU.

Lets put crap into perspective shall we? 

ps4 has a 1.6ghz 8 core jaguar CPU, likewise for the Xbox one.  AMD's best cpu on the market for pc is an 8 core 4.2 ghz cpu (the FX 8350).   Read it again, 8 CORES AT 4.2 GHZ.  And guess what, INTEL 4 core i5 3570k Beats it at 3.4 ghz, Far less for an easy overclock to 4.1 ghz on the i5 3570k. 

NOW DO THE MATHS YOU IGNORANANT CONSOLITES. PC Cpu's ROASTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT any next gen console cpu.

 

Where is most of the API OVERHEAD HANDLED ? IN THE CPU... even if hermits dont feel like argueing the overestimated myth about consoles having 2x the performance of same comparible specs. How you consolites going to argue against pc's that have 8x 9x 10x the performance of consoles of which for example i own?????     Its not like an I5 3570k is expensive. Its fit into a under 1000$ build nicely.

Then you want to talk teraflops on the gpu, xbox with 1.2 of which 90% is used (LOL)  and ps4 with 1.8. And then look at whats being offered on pc       such as the 7970 ghz has 4.3 teraflops, which is more than 2x .. It just leaves me saying meh, why am i even bothering pointing this out  to you consolites. even if hermits are lazy and dont feel like arguing, we win by default just for brute force.  

Just keep chanting POWAH TO THE CELL AND CLOUD, Maybe the gaming gods will hear you some time. Oh thats right, all gods are fake. 

gpuking

COWS AND THIER MAKE UP EXCUSES , KEEP RUNNING AWAY FROM THE FACTS.  PC SMOKED THE DEMO OF WHICH A PS4 COULDNT HANDLE NEARLY AS WELL

YOU KNOW THE REASON WHY THEY REMOVED GLOBAL ILLUMINATION? BECAUSE PS4 COULDNT HANDLE IT . THEN THEY COME SAYING O WELL WE REMOVED IT FOR PC AS WELL, AND CLAIM IT WOULDNT BE USEFUL ON PC AS WELL,     WOW TOOK THEM 1 YEAR TO FIGURE THAT OUT, JUST WHEN THE PS4 COMES ALONG,ALL OF A SUDDEN THE LIGHTING TECHNIQUE IS TO RESOURCE INTENSIVE? AHAHAHAHAHA DESPITE THE DEMO BEING OUT FOR THE PC FOR A YEAR.

YOU TALKK ABOUT BUGS , THERE WAS NO BUGS.    YOU TALK ABOUT EFFECTS NOT RUNNING PROPERLY. I JUST TOLD YOU WHY IT COULDNT RUN UP TO PAR. IT LACKED THE PERFORMANCE TO RUN THE GLOBAL ILLUMINATION TECHNIQUE THAT THE PC HAD NO PROBLEM DOING.  SUCH A SHAME PC HAD NO PROBLEM SMOKING IT. I KNOW THIS MAKES YOU CRY.  UNREAL ENGINE 4 NOW HAS A WEAKER VERSION OF GLOBAL ILLUMINATION THAT MAKES EVERYBODY SUFFER NOW BECAUSE OF IT.

TSK TSK TSK         CONSOLES STILL HOLDING PC GRAPHICS BACK

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="casharmy"] I feel I need to adderss conclusion here Ron....

The Radeon crossfire 7850 that you are pointing to is 2GB.  We all know that PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 ram, now Look dirctly ABOVE the 7970 figures you pointed  out...THE 7850 CROSSFIRE VERSION WITH 4GB OF RAM BEATS THE 7970!!!.

So saying a normal 7970 beats a normal CF 7850 wouldn't really work for PS4 since the biggest difference in performance here for 7850 came from additional  Ram which PS4 has 7GB of GDDR5 to use.

casharmy

Don't know what kind of point you were trying to make here but it's completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="call_of_duty_10"]

800x600

low settings

avg 25 fps without fraps

Console version is better.

zeeshanhaider

On basic compute, 8600 GT has 114 GFLOPS while Xenos has 240 GFLOPS.

PS4 has 1.8 teraflops while 670 has 2.5 teraflops and 670 is a midrange card.

670's fix function units are not mid-range (e.g. Tessellation, TMU, ROPs). Modern GPUs has two main sections i.e. programmable units and fix function units.

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

[QUOTE="gpuking"] Are you seriously using the Elemental demo for comparison, that's epic fail no pun intended. Even Epic admitted the demo was buggy and some effects weren't even running properly. You're post is full of fail.gpuking

Yeah, how dare he said anything against the mighty PS4, with low level access (even though they don't even know what low level means) PS4 will output 1000petaflops. :D

No, I just said all you consolites don't know what low level access means.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="gpuking"] Last time I checked 7850 sli is faster than a single 670. And a single 670 is nowhere near leaps and bounds faster than a ps4 in real world performance.casharmy

On what games? Why not compare 7850 CF against 7970? This reduces game code bias factors between GPU vendors.

Normal 7970 is still faster than normal 7850 CF.

The Radeon crossfire 7850 that you are pointing to is 2GB. We all know that PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 ram, now Look dirctly ABOVE the 7970 figures you pointed out...THE 7850 CROSSFIRE VERSION WITH 4GB OF RAM BEATS THE 7970!!!.

So saying a normal 7970 beats a normal CF 7850 wouldn't really work for PS4 since the biggest difference in performance here for 7850 came from additional Ram which PS4 has 7GB of GDDR5 to use.

2GB is not the issue since it didn't gimp 660 Ti 2GB.

From http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#c=81&sort=d2

7850 with 4 GB has 1Ghz clock speed i.e. it's GPU fix function units (e.g. ACEs, TMUs, ROPs) would be clocked at 1Ghz.

PS; I can overclock my 7970 to 1Ghz, but don't need to overclock at this time.

From http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/amd-confirms-new-volcanic-island-gpus-for-2013-launch/0115398

AMD confirms Volcanic Islands GCNs for 2013.

The next generation of graphics cards Volcanic Islands is coming this year and shaping up nicely. - AMD

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] You do realize that RAM has nothing to do with resolution and AA, right?DragonfireXZ95

Don't know what kind of point you were trying to make here but it's completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

4GB crosfire 7850 56fps > 7970 53fps...That is clear as day.  Same setup for resolution, graphics performance and AA.  I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make but it doesn't seem to be a very good one. 

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="casharmy"]They all have the same settings bud, the only difference is the frame rate which the 4GB 7850 crossfire is superior to compared to the 7970.

Don't know what kind of point you were trying to make here but it's completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

casharmy

4GB crosfire 7850 56fps > 7970 53fps...That is clear as day. Same setup for resolution, graphics performance and AA. I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make but it doesn't seem to be a very good one.

7850 with 4GB VRAM has a core clock speed of 1Ghz i.e. it's not stock clock speeds. I can overclock my 7970 to 1Ghz (re-flash the BIOS to 7970 GE) and beat 7850 CF.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="casharmy"]They all have the same settings bud, the only difference is the frame rate which the 4GB 7850 crossfire is superior to compared to the 7970.  

Don't know what kind of point you were trying to make here but it's completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

casharmy

4GB crosfire 7850 56fps > 7970 53fps...That is clear as day.  Same setup for resolution, graphics performance and AA.  I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make but it doesn't seem to be a very good one. 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

Metro Last Light's chief technical officer Oles Shishkovstovfrom 4A confirms what John Carmack has been saying all along.

No, you just cannot compare consoles to PC directly. Consoles could do at least 2x what a comparable PC can due to the fixed platform and low-level access to hardware.  gpuking

He also strongly praised PS4's hardware,

We are talking PS4, right? I am very excited about both CPU and GPU. Jaguar is a pretty well-balanced out-of-order core and there are eight of them inside. I always wanted a lot of relatively-low-power cores instead of single super-high-performance one, because it's easier to simply parallelise something instead of changing core-algorithms or chasing every cycle inside critical code segment (not that we don't do that, but very often we can avoid it).

Many beefier cores would be even better, but then we'll be left without a GPU! With regards the graphics core, it's great, simply great. It's a modern-age high-performance compute device with unified memory and multiple compute-contexts. The possibilities of CPU-GPU-CPU communication are endless, we can easily expect games doing, for example, AI pathfinding/route planning executing on GPU to become a common thing.

There are some things which are just more efficient to do on massively parallel machines like GPUs are. I think that at least initially, with launch titles, the GPU-Compute will be underutilised, but during console's lifetime we'll see more and more unbelievable and innovative things purely thanks to GPUs.

I guess Metro LL would run at least Maximum level with some level of tessellation on PS4 at 1080p since a  7850 sli rig should handle more than that.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

Metro Last Light's chief technical officer Oles Shishkovstovfrom 4A confirms what John Carmack has been saying all along.

No, you just cannot compare consoles to PC directly. Consoles could do at least 2x what a comparable PC can due to the fixed platform and low-level access to hardware. gpuking

He also strongly praised PS4's hardware,

We are talking PS4, right? I am very excited about both CPU and GPU. Jaguar is a pretty well-balanced out-of-order core and there are eight of them inside. I always wanted a lot of relatively-low-power cores instead of single super-high-performance one, because it's easier to simply parallelise something instead of changing core-algorithms or chasing every cycle inside critical code segment (not that we don't do that, but very often we can avoid it).

Many beefier cores would be even better, but then we'll be left without a GPU! With regards the graphics core, it's great, simply great. It's a modern-age high-performance compute device with unified memory and multiple compute-contexts. The possibilities of CPU-GPU-CPU communication are endless, we can easily expect games doing, for example, AI pathfinding/route planning executing on GPU to become a common thing.

There are some things which are just more efficient to do on massively parallel machines like GPUs are. I think that at least initially, with launch titles, the GPU-Compute will be underutilised, but during console's lifetime we'll see more and more unbelievable and innovative things purely thanks to GPUs.

I guess Metro LL would run at least Maximum level with some level of tessellation on PS4 at 1080p since a 7850 sli rig should handle more than that.

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD HSA for PC games.

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] Except that the 4GB crossfire'd 7850s perform almost the same as a single 2GB card, so that 8GB GDDR5 ram you're touting? It's useless when it comes to resolution and AA.DragonfireXZ95

4GB crosfire 7850 56fps > 7970 53fps...That is clear as day.  Same setup for resolution, graphics performance and AA.  I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make but it doesn't seem to be a very good one. 

You are right but I was going off the diagram, and it's pretty impressive for a $400 -$550 system if you ask me.  I am not making the arguement that PC can't or wont have better performance than PS4 if that is what you are trying to say, I know that.  Im saying that developers being able to = or better the performance of something like a standard 7970 is really good for PS4.  

[QUOTE="gpuking"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

Metro Last Light's chief technical officer Oles Shishkovstovfrom 4A confirms what John Carmack has been saying all along.

No, you just cannot compare consoles to PC directly. Consoles could do at least 2x what a comparable PC can due to the fixed platform and low-level access to hardware.  delta3074

He also strongly praised PS4's hardware,

We are talking PS4, right? I am very excited about both CPU and GPU. Jaguar is a pretty well-balanced out-of-order core and there are eight of them inside. I always wanted a lot of relatively-low-power cores instead of single super-high-performance one, because it's easier to simply parallelise something instead of changing core-algorithms or chasing every cycle inside critical code segment (not that we don't do that, but very often we can avoid it).

Many beefier cores would be even better, but then we'll be left without a GPU! With regards the graphics core, it's great, simply great. It's a modern-age high-performance compute device with unified memory and multiple compute-contexts. The possibilities of CPU-GPU-CPU communication are endless, we can easily expect games doing, for example, AI pathfinding/route planning executing on GPU to become a common thing.

There are some things which are just more efficient to do on massively parallel machines like GPUs are. I think that at least initially, with launch titles, the GPU-Compute will be underutilised, but during console's lifetime we'll see more and more unbelievable and innovative things purely thanks to GPUs.

I guess Metro LL would run at least Maximum level with some level of tessellation on PS4 at 1080p since a  7850 sli rig should handle more than that.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="casharmy"]

4GB crosfire 7850 56fps > 7970 53fps...That is clear as day. Same setup for resolution, graphics performance and AA. I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make but it doesn't seem to be a very good one.

casharmy

You are right but I was going off the diagram, and it's pretty impressive for a $400 -$550 system if you ask me. I am not making the arguement that PC can't or wont have better performance than PS4 if that is what you are trying to say, I know that. Im saying that developers being able to = or better the performance of something like a standard 7970 is really good for PS4.

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD's HSA for PC games i.e. AMD's "Gaming Evolved" PCs gets a software update.

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] The 7850 Crossfire'd cards are turbo cards with enhanced clock speeds. Use common sense to figure that out.ronvalencia

You are right but I was going off the diagram, and it's pretty impressive for a $400 -$550 system if you ask me. I am not making the arguement that PC can't or wont have better performance than PS4 if that is what you are trying to say, I know that. Im saying that developers being able to = or better the performance of something like a standard 7970 is really good for PS4.

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD's HSA for PC games i.e. AMD's "Gaming Evolved" PCs gets a software update.

*edit*

calls attention to when PS3 received a boost in in memory when it received a software update to reduce the OS footprint.  Yeah...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

Metro Last Light's chief technical officer Oles Shishkovstovfrom 4A confirms what John Carmack has been saying all along.

No, you just cannot compare consoles to PC directly. Consoles could do at least 2x what a comparable PC can due to the fixed platform and low-level access to hardware.  gpuking

He also strongly praised PS4's hardware,

We are talking PS4, right? I am very excited about both CPU and GPU. Jaguar is a pretty well-balanced out-of-order core and there are eight of them inside. I always wanted a lot of relatively-low-power cores instead of single super-high-performance one, because it's easier to simply parallelise something instead of changing core-algorithms or chasing every cycle inside critical code segment (not that we don't do that, but very often we can avoid it).

Many beefier cores would be even better, but then we'll be left without a GPU! With regards the graphics core, it's great, simply great. It's a modern-age high-performance compute device with unified memory and multiple compute-contexts. The possibilities of CPU-GPU-CPU communication are endless, we can easily expect games doing, for example, AI pathfinding/route planning executing on GPU to become a common thing.

There are some things which are just more efficient to do on massively parallel machines like GPUs are. I think that at least initially, with launch titles, the GPU-Compute will be underutilised, but during console's lifetime we'll see more and more unbelievable and innovative things purely thanks to GPUs.

I guess Metro LL would run at least Maximum level with some level of tessellation on PS4 at 1080p since a  7850 sli rig should handle more than that.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

You are right but I was going off the diagram, and it's pretty impressive for a $400 -$550 system if you ask me. I am not making the arguement that PC can't or wont have better performance than PS4 if that is what you are trying to say, I know that. Im saying that developers being able to = or better the performance of something like a standard 7970 is really good for PS4.

casharmy

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD's HSA for PC games i.e. AMD's "Gaming Evolved" PCs gets a software update.

PS4 has Sony written HSA like layer i.e. Sony is a member of HSA Foundation.

AMD's HSAIL covers the PC side.

AMD's HSAIL also supports Intel SSE i.e. it could fallback to CPU mode.

Leave it to consolites to not understand what the dude is saying. jg4xchamp

A comparable PC... that is the key phrase in that statement.

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD's HSA for PC games i.e. AMD's "Gaming Evolved" PCs gets a software update.

ronvalencia

AMD's HSA software also supports Intel SSE i.e. it could fallback to CPU mode.

glad develpers will be able to push PS4 alot further than a simple 7850 like many hermits were trying to say.  I don't really care if PC can be more powerful, I already said I konw they can, doesn't take aways from what this developer (not even the first one to say this) is saying.

 Metro LL's chief technical officer doesn´t confirms it. He just talks about advantages of PS4 but he never compares it to PC.

2X stuff is your conclusion, not his. If it was 2x more powerful, it would run BF4 at 1080p after all.

Keep dreaming cows. 

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="casharmy"]:? so do consoles...

casharmy

AMD's HSA software also supports Intel SSE i.e. it could fallback to CPU mode.

glad develpers will be able to push PS4 alot further than a simple 7850 like many hermits were trying to say. I don't really care if PC can be more powerful, I aleray said that a given with how PC is designed, doesn't take aways from what this developer (not even the first one to say this) is saying.

PC's low level software is not standing still. It would be advantageous for AMD to capitalize the GCN enabled consoles on the PC side i.e. AMD's "The Way It's Meant To be Played" or extremely bias AMD "Gaming Evolved" PC titles.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

You are right but I was going off the diagram, and it's pretty impressive for a $400 -$550 system if you ask me. I am not making the arguement that PC can't or wont have better performance than PS4 if that is what you are trying to say, I know that. Im saying that developers being able to = or better the performance of something like a standard 7970 is really good for PS4.

casharmy

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD's HSA for PC games i.e. AMD's "Gaming Evolved" PCs gets a software update.

*edit*

calls attention to when PS3 received a boost in in memory when it received a software update to reduce the OS footprint.  Yeah...

A gtx 680 is a nice upgrade from it. The whole, do all pc gamers have a high end rig defense is stupid. millerlight89

Not really when steam stats show that the majority of the users on steam have only 1GB of Vram,and most uses GPU which are under power vs the PS4.

Also the 680GTX cost as much if not more than what a PS4 would probably cost,and that is a GPU alone.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="casharmy"]

4GB crosfire 7850 56fps > 7970 53fps...That is clear as day.  Same setup for resolution, graphics performance and AA.  I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make but it doesn't seem to be a very good one. 

casharmy

You are right but I was going off the diagram, and it's pretty impressive for a $400 -$550 system if you ask me.  I am not making the arguement that PC can't or wont have better performance than PS4 if that is what you are trying to say, I know that.  Im saying that developers being able to = or better the performance of something like a standard 7970 is really good for PS4.  

:lol:

Doesn't even know how far the gap is between 7970 and PS4 is.

PS4 3.6Tflops confirmed.SaltyMeatballs

BF 4 720p CONFIRMED :P

[QUOTE="millerlight89"] A gtx 680 is a nice upgrade from it. The whole, do all pc gamers have a high end rig defense is stupid. tormentos

Not really when steam stats show that the majority of the users on steam have only 1GB of Vram,and most uses GPU which are under power vs the PS4.

Also the 680GTX cost as much if not more than what a PS4 would probably cost,and that is a GPU alone.

Can you please list down how many consolites are gaming on PS4?

 

 

Maybe if he is talking about the CPU but he is wrong about the GPU.

Otherwise current consoles would completely decimate the 8600gt and instead they perform similar.

API overhead is mainly an issue with CPUs not GPUs.

RyviusARC

And here we go again with the same sh** the 8600GT is a 2007 GPU and you are comparing it to 2 2005 GPU,not only that consoles back then were memory contrain since launch,which they are not now and had other bottle necks as well.

Once again find me a 7800GTX running games lik Uncharted 3..Hell running Crysis 3 at console setting.?

No instead you go an compare it with a more refine GPU from 2 series ahead of the PS3 GPU,and 2 years newer.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/549?vs=511

Once again 5870 vs 7850..

How in hell the 7850 can beat a 5870 how.?

The 5870 has 2.72 TF 1600 Stream Processors..

Yet the 1.76 TF 1024 Stream Processor 7850 beat it.

How is this possible.? when the 7850 is a full 1 TF under the 5870,is simple newer design more efficien design..

You argument has been destroy for the damn 100 time.

 

Can you please list down how many consolites are gaming on PS4?

zeeshanhaider

This holiday many,but that is a pathetic excuse because the fact that the PS4 is not here,hasn't stop hermits from comparing tech..

 Metro LL's chief technical officer doesn´t confirms it. He just talks about advantages of PS4 but he never compares it to PC.

2X stuff is your conclusion, not his. If it was 2x more powerful, it would run BF4 at 1080p after all.

Keep dreaming cows. 

jhonMalcovich

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

Maybe if he is talking about the CPU but he is wrong about the GPU.

Otherwise current consoles would completely decimate the 8600gt and instead they perform similar.

API overhead is mainly an issue with CPUs not GPUs.

tormentos

And here we go again with the same sh** the 8600GT is a 2007 GPU and you are comparing it to 2 2005 GPU,not only that consoles back then were memory contrain since launch,which they are not now and had other bottle necks as well.

Once again find me a 7800GTX running games lik Uncharted 3..Hell running Crysis 3 at console setting.?

No instead you go an compare it with a more refine GPU from 2 series ahead of the PS3 GPU,and 2 years newer.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/549?vs=511

Once again 5870 vs 7850..

How in hell the 7850 can beat a 5870 how.?

The 5870 has 2.72 TF 1600 Stream Processors..

Yet the 1.76 TF 1024 Stream Processor 7850 beat it.

How is this possible.? when the 7850 is a full 1 TF under the 5870,is simple newer design more efficien design..

You argument has been destroy for the damn 100 time.

Release date is irrelevant i.e. focus on the hardware features.

I don't see Xbox 360's Xenos matching GeForce 8800 GTX.ronvalencia

The 8800GTX was a $500 dollar 2006 GPU,the Xenos is a 2005 one,now find me a X1800 or a 7800GTX from 2005 when the xbox release beating the Xenos..

You can't have it both way dude.

 

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD's HSA for PC games i.e. AMD's "Gaming Evolved" PCs gets a software update.

ronvalencia

HSA on AMD was late.

And it will take a long time before developers on PC actally start to code directly for HSA hardware,PC adaptation is slow,and there isn't any driver that would make GPUs out now work in HSA maner i have tell you this 100 times.

HSA is a design and i don't see many GPU out there been HUMA to begin with,there is a legacy on PC that developers most fallow in order to mantain backward compatibility with older cards and you know it,HSA is one place like multicore coding where consoles will be ahead of PC's for some time.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 Metro LL's chief technical officer doesn´t confirms it. He just talks about advantages of PS4 but he never compares it to PC.

2X stuff is your conclusion, not his. If it was 2x more powerful, it would run BF4 at 1080p after all.

Keep dreaming cows. 

tormentos

What it has to do with my post :?

Release date is irrelevant i.e. focus on the hardware features.ronvalencia

Release date is irrelevat my ass,GPU get stronger by the year,and more efficient ones come every time,i even make an example but rather that explaining why the 7850 is able to kick the 5870 butt,you go into denial.

The 7850 vs the 5870 is one of the biggest example of how efficiency matter even more than raw power.

2.7TF vs 1.7 TF  1600SP vs 1024 still the 7850 wins ...

I have nothing more to prove.

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

 

Can you please list down how many consolites are gaming on PS4?

tormentos

This holiday many,but that is a pathetic excuse because the fact that the PS4 is not here,hasn't stop hermits from comparing tech..

No the fact is you're quoting inaccurate numbers to argue. Steam doesn't always registers the GPU correctly or update it once changed. Second GTX 670 blows PS4 out of the water and it's a midrange card and you know the best part, PS4 has yet to release.

Oh and you also comparing consoles with the GPU's when consoles used to ship with similar power in your another argument. Here the PS4 is oudated by even midrange cards before a whole 1.5 years before its going to release.

And, the funny thing is all you consolites are jumping up and down without even knowing the price of your precious PS4.

Cant wait for hermits to Rip this thread a new one.campzor

 

 

 

 

 

 

What it has to do with my post :?

jhonMalcovich

Because it was John Carmack who stated this,the 2X difference,and now another developers point at how efficient consoles are vs PC,and not any developers Metro one,which is one of the games most hyped on PC as well for visuals.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What it has to do with my post :?

tormentos

Because it was John Carmack who stated this,the 2X difference,and now another developers point at how efficient consoles are vs PC,and not any developers Metro one,which is one of the games most hyped on PC as well for visuals.

Carmack also said 360 and PS3 were similar in power, you didn't believe him then, did you? ;)

And Crytek has already said that no Next-Gen console is going to outperform PC.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

From http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

AMD's HSA for PC games i.e. AMD's "Gaming Evolved" PCs gets a software update.

tormentos

HSA on AMD was late.

And it will take a long time before developers on PC actally start to code directly for HSA hardware,PC adaptation is slow,and there isn't any driver that would make GPUs out now work in HSA maner i have tell you this 100 times.

HSA is a design and i don't see many GPU out there been HUMA to begin with,there is a legacy on PC that developers most fallow in order to mantain backward compatibility with older cards and you know it,HSA is one place like multicore coding where consoles will be ahead of PC's for some time.

No, HSAIL is the new backend for AMD's OpenCL i.e. it replaces AMDIL. Existing OpenCL PC apps gets a speed boost with HSA IL i.e. lower latency.

This is the same when existing NVIDIA CUDA apps runs on NVIDIA TCC driver. AMDIL was mostly designed for VLIW based Radeon HDs.

As for HUMA, you have to learn the difference between virtual/logical address vs physical address modes.

1. HSA brings unified logical/virtual address mode for applications and AMD GPUs. This is similar to NVIDIA TCC's unified virtual address mode feature. The problem with the current setup is with address segmentation modes. This is the same reason why AMD dumps address segmentation modes in X86-64/Long Mode.

2. HSA overcomes WDDM/DirectX latency compute issues for AMD GPUs. This is similar to NVIDIA TCC's low latency improvements.

From software's POV, a unified virtual address mode would look the same for either CPU+dGPU and CPU+IGP setups.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What it has to do with my post :?

tormentos

Because it was John Carmack who stated this,the 2X difference,and now another developers point at how efficient consoles are vs PC,and not any developers Metro one,which is one of the games most hyped on PC as well for visuals.

Whatever. BF4 will still be 720p. That power of optimization :o