Metro LL's chief technical officer cofirms PS4 2x comparable PC in power.

 

No the fact is you're quoting inaccurate numbers to argue. Steam doesn't always registers the GPU correctly or update it once changed. Second GTX 670 blows PS4 out of the water and it's a midrange card and you know the best part, PS4 has yet to release.

Oh and you also comparing consoles with the GPU's when consoles used to ship with similar power in your another argument. Here the PS4 is oudated by even midrange cards before a whole 1.5 years before its going to release.

And, the funny thing is all you consolites are jumping up and down without even knowing the price of your precious PS4.

zeeshanhaider

Oh please dude stop steam stats are done every single month,is as accurate as it can be.

The 670GTX blow sh** out of the water dude,with efficiencies the PS4 should be there with a 7870,which the 670gtx hardly blows away,sure it beat it but blows it no chance in hell.

You people should get this,on PC power is use for speed,on consoles power is use for visuals,is what DF article complained about PC has the power it just lack the software.

Is funny how in all thise arguments is always hermits words vs wll know developers,first it was Jonh Carmack now is Metro developer,i take their word over yours any day.

Now slow cpus are good? Lololol. Metro devs... Go home

 

Whatever. BF4 will still be 720p. That power of optimization :o

jhonMalcovich

Keep believing all the rumors the PS4 should handle 1080p on BF4 like any other mid range GPU can,if the PS4 can't run BF4 on 1080p,then most GPU on PC will not,and you will probably need a 7950 or Nvidia equivalent to run it at 1080p which not many gamers on PC have...

The 7850 can ru Crysis at 1080p so i don't see why it can't run BF4,we all know few games is any beat Crysis when it comes to demanding specs.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="gpuking"] This is not a PC vs PS4 thread OK? We know there are more powerful PCs out there but this simply vindicates PS4's architecture is very efficient and punches above its weight class rather than a so called mid end pc rig. zekere

It's a pointless thread, consoles can be more focused so of course they'll be more effecient with comparable hardware, but PC hardware is already leaps and bounds beyond the PS4 so its a pointless subject.

I'ts non news.

[QUOTE="millerlight89"][QUOTE="zekere"] And still sales are declining with hundreds of thousands each year.zekere

Now slow cpus are good? Lololol. Metro devs... Go home

ocidax

So who we should send home,a known developers who games is loved on PC,which has not attachment to consoles,or you a rabit fanboy who's ego can't take a hit.

MMMM....

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

 

No the fact is you're quoting inaccurate numbers to argue. Steam doesn't always registers the GPU correctly or update it once changed. Second GTX 670 blows PS4 out of the water and it's a midrange card and you know the best part, PS4 has yet to release.

Oh and you also comparing consoles with the GPU's when consoles used to ship with similar power in your another argument. Here the PS4 is oudated by even midrange cards before a whole 1.5 years before its going to release.

And, the funny thing is all you consolites are jumping up and down without even knowing the price of your precious PS4.

tormentos

Oh please dude stop steam stats are done every single month,is as accurate as it can be.

The 670GTX blow sh** out of the water dude,with efficiencies the PS4 should be there with a 7870,which the 670gtx hardly blows away,sure it beat it but blows it no chance in hell.

You people should get this,on PC power is use for speed,on consoles power is use for visuals,is what DF article complained about PC has the power it just lack the software.

Is funny how in all thise arguments is always hermits words vs wll know developers,first it was Jonh Carmack now is Metro developer,i take their word over yours any day.

I didn't the API overhead in PC is 0.7 teraflops. I wonder how did games manage to run at all in 2005-2006. And you know what....no PC gamers game on cheap, weaksauce APUs. So he was right when he said COMPARABLE'. ;)

Oh and you didn't answer my question about Carmack's cooments on PS3 vs 360 or Crytek about Next-Gen consoles. Already starting to run away?

I said it before and I'll say it again, Killzone SF looks better than anything on PC

 

No, HSAIL is the new backend for AMD's OpenCL i.e. it replaces AMDIL. Existing OpenCL PC apps gets a speed boost with HSA IL i.e. lower latency.

 

This is the same when existing NVIDIA CUDA apps runs on NVIDIA TCC driver. AMDIL was mostly designed for VLIW based Radeon HDs.

 

As for HUMA, you have to learn the difference between virtual/logical address vs physical address modes.

1. HSA brings unified logical/virtual address mode for applications and AMD GPUs. This is similar to NVIDIA TCC's unified virtual address mode feature.

2. HSA overcomes WDDM/DirectX latency compute issues for AMD GPUs. This is similar to NVIDIA TCC's low latency improvements.

 

 

 

ronvalencia

It is you who have to learn that HSA drivers will not rewrite the way GPU do graphics now,period if your GPU ins't HSA you have nothing to do with HSA period.

I quoted this already HSA is a design not something you turn on with a damn driver.

Volcanic Island is HSA in design the rest are just compatible in some way not entirely or like the majority they are not.

I said it before and I'll say it again, Killzone SF looks better than anything on PC

Supabul

On your PC may be. Sure as hell looks average compare to the games I play on my PC.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

No, HSAIL is the new backend for AMD's OpenCL i.e. it replaces AMDIL. Existing OpenCL PC apps gets a speed boost with HSA IL i.e. lower latency.

This is the same when existing NVIDIA CUDA apps runs on NVIDIA TCC driver. AMDIL was mostly designed for VLIW based Radeon HDs.

As for HUMA, you have to learn the difference between virtual/logical address vs physical address modes.

1. HSA brings unified logical/virtual address mode for applications and AMD GPUs. This is similar to NVIDIA TCC's unified virtual address mode feature.

2. HSA overcomes WDDM/DirectX latency compute issues for AMD GPUs. This is similar to NVIDIA TCC's low latency improvements.

tormentos

It is you who have to learn that HSA drivers will not rewrite the way GPU do graphics now,period if your GPU ins't HSA you have nothing to do with HSA period.

I quoted this already HSA is a design not something you turn on with a damn driver.

Volcanic Island is HSA in design the rest are just compatible in some way not entirely or like the majority they are not.

In regards to memory operations, X86 CPUs are already HSA complaint i.e. they are just slower than GCN accelerated compute e.g. Intel SSE.

Current AMD GCN has an X86 based MMU.

Radeon HD 7970, GCN and HSA whitepaper http://www.amd.com/jp/Documents/GCN_Architecture_whitepaper.pdf

The new GCN ISA was designed to facilitate industry standards. AMDs Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) is envisioned as a model for heterogeneous computing. It defines how CPUs and GPUs communicate and includes a virtual ISA (the HSA Intermediate Language), which is hardware agnostic. HSAIL code is dynamically compiled for the underlying hardware, and thus compatible with CPUs and GPUs from any vendor. GCN fully supports HSAIL, in part because of the shift to a more flexible instruction set.

AMD VI's serial processors are just against NVIDIA's Maxwell.

[QUOTE="ocidax"]

Now slow cpus are good? Lololol. Metro devs... Go home

tormentos

So who we should send home,a known developers who games is loved on PC,which has not attachment to consoles,or you a rabit fanboy who's ego can't take a hit.

MMMM....

 

 

I didn't the API overhead in PC is 0.7 teraflops. I wonder how did games manage to run at all in 2005-2006. And you know what....no PC gamers game on cheap, weaksauce APUs. So he was right when he said COMPARABLE'. ;)

Oh and you didn't answer my question about Carmack's cooments on PS3 vs 360 or Crytek about Next-Gen consoles. Already starting to run away?

zeeshanhaider

Funny the PS4 has the strongest APU right now,the most powerul after it is Volcanic Island so that should give you an indication,fun enough most gamers on steam game on 560TI or 550 which is even worst,oh but wait is not over they also do it allow on INTEL integrated sh**,so making fun of weak APU when a high % of people on steam play on Intel HD graphics is a joke,the PS4 APU mops the floor with Intel HD graphics,they may have good CPU but their GPU suck ass.

What question and i haven run away to stop grasping.

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

 

 

I didn't the API overhead in PC is 0.7 teraflops. I wonder how did games manage to run at all in 2005-2006. And you know what....no PC gamers game on cheap, weaksauce APUs. So he was right when he said COMPARABLE'. ;)

Oh and you didn't answer my question about Carmack's cooments on PS3 vs 360 or Crytek about Next-Gen consoles. Already starting to run away?

tormentos

Funny the PS4 has the strongest APU right now,the most powerul after it is Volcanic Island so that should give you an indication,fun enough most gamers on steam game on 560TI or 550 which is even worst,oh but wait is not over they also do it allow on INTEL integrated sh**,so making fun of weak APU when a high % of people on steam play on Intel HD graphics is a joke,the PS4 APU mops the floor with Intel HD graphics,they may have good CPU but their GPU suck ass.

What question and i haven run away to stop grasping.

I said it before and I'll say it again, Killzone SF looks better than anything on PC

Supabul

BF 4 looks way better. Lol even next COD looks better.

[QUOTE="Supabul"]

I said it before and I'll say it again, Killzone SF looks better than anything on PC

jhonMalcovich

BF 4 looks way better. Lol even next COD looks better.

I mean just look at it, flying in over the city is jaw dropping awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDfu1mYQXEg

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

 

 

I didn't the API overhead in PC is 0.7 teraflops. I wonder how did games manage to run at all in 2005-2006. And you know what....no PC gamers game on cheap, weaksauce APUs. So he was right when he said COMPARABLE'. ;)

Oh and you didn't answer my question about Carmack's cooments on PS3 vs 360 or Crytek about Next-Gen consoles. Already starting to run away?

tormentos

Funny the PS4 has the strongest APU right now,the most powerul after it is Volcanic Island so that should give you an indication,fun enough most gamers on steam game on 560TI or 550 which is even worst,oh but wait is not over they also do it allow on INTEL integrated sh**,so making fun of weak APU when a high % of people on steam play on Intel HD graphics is a joke,the PS4 APU mops the floor with Intel HD graphics,they may have good CPU but their GPU suck ass.

What question and i haven run away to stop grasping.

Powerful doesn't change the fact that 'PC Gamers' don't game on APU's or IGP's. We have much better setup than that, you peasents can have your weak APU. And yes, the mid range GTX 670 blows the shit out of PS4 unless you tell me how they gonna bridge the gap b/w 670 and PS4.

I asked in another thread that you didn't believe Carmack when he said 360 and PS3 were similar in power and neither did you believe Crytek when they said no Next-Gen console is going to out perform PC.

X86 CPUs are already HSA complaint.ronvalencia

HSA creates an improved processor design that exposes the benefits and capabilities of mainstream programmable compute elements, working together seamlessly.

To fully exploit the capabilities of parallel execution units, it is essential for computer system designers to think differently. The designers must re-architect computer systems to tightly integrate the disparate compute elements on a platform into an evolved central processor while providing a programming path that does not require fundamental changes for software developers. This is the primary goal of the new HSA design.

HSA creates an improved processor design that exposes the benefits and capabilities of mainstream programmable compute elements, working together seamlessly. With HSA, applications can create data structures in a single unified address space and can initiate work items on the hardware most appropriate for a given task. Sharing data between compute elements is as simple as sending a pointer. Multiple compute tasks can work on the same coherent memory regions, utilizing barriers and atomic memory operations as needed to maintain data synchronization (just as multi-core CPUs do today).

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="Supabul"]

I said it before and I'll say it again, Killzone SF looks better than anything on PC

Supabul

BF 4 looks way better. Lol even next COD looks better.

I mean just look at it, flying in over the city is jaw dropping awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDfu1mYQXEg

On rails scripted movie. What's there to see?

 

Powerful doesn't change the fact that 'PC Gamers' don't game on APU's or IGP's. We have much better setup than that, you peasents can have your weak APU. And yes, the mid range GTX 670 blows the shit out of PS4 unless you tell me how they gonna bridge the gap b/w 670 and PS4.

I asked in another thread that you didn't believe Carmack when he said 360 and PS3 were similar in power and neither did you believe Crytek when they said no Next-Gen console is going to out perform PC.

zeeshanhaider

They don't game on APU because the design is basically new and is not combined with powerful hardware yet,but like i told you the PS4 APU aleady integrate a 78XX GPU,which is actually stronger than most PC GPU out there,and Volcanic Island is coming which is basically a giant APU.

Oh quite easy on consoles developers don't targed 2560x1600,they target 1080p which is even lower than 1920x1200,second developers on consoles don't target 60 FPS,they target 30,not that alone on consoles developers don't target 8Xmsaa,so there is power to spare,and that power will be use for visuals..

Aside from probably minor differences you will not see the 670gtx kick the PS4 any time.

Actually carmack stated that the PS3 had more raw power,but that he liked the xbox 360 more because how friendly it was,to the point were he claimed it was easier to code for 360 than for PC,most of his remraks have been about the PS3 been stronger while the 360 been friendlier.

And in fact i do believe Crytec in that regard,just like i believe them when they say memory was the most important part and that was always unbalance,and that they could pull allot of tricks with allot of ram,now Crytec was one of the few developers who asked for 8GB of memory minimum on consoles.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] X86 CPUs are already HSA complaint.tormentos

HSA creates an improved processor design that exposes the benefits and capabilities of mainstream programmable compute elements, working together seamlessly.

To fully exploit the capabilities of parallel execution units, it is essential for computer system designers to think differently. The designers must re-architect computer systems to tightly integrate the disparate compute elements on a platform into an evolved central processor while providing a programming path that does not require fundamental changes for software developers. This is the primary goal of the new HSA design.

HSA creates an improved processor design that exposes the benefits and capabilities of mainstream programmable compute elements, working together seamlessly. With HSA, applications can create data structures in a single unified address space and can initiate work items on the hardware most appropriate for a given task. Sharing data between compute elements is as simple as sending a pointer. Multiple compute tasks can work on the same coherent memory regions, utilizing barriers and atomic memory operations as needed to maintain data synchronization (just as multi-core CPUs do today).

There's nothing in the posted statement that negates "GCN fully support HSAIL".

Multi-Core CPUs are not limited to one CPU socket. The servers and workstations has 2 or more CPU sockets and each CPU socket has it's own memory controllers.

HUMA = NUMA for GPU and CPU.

Don't impose console's single processing socket limitations on workstations/servers.

[QUOTE="Supabul"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

BF 4 looks way better. Lol even next COD looks better.

zeeshanhaider

I mean just look at it, flying in over the city is jaw dropping awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDfu1mYQXEg

On rails scripted movie. What's there to see?

LOL, just like COD and the BF4 demo

Whats there to see, a game that looks better than the above

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

 

Powerful doesn't change the fact that 'PC Gamers' don't game on APU's or IGP's. We have much better setup than that, you peasents can have your weak APU. And yes, the mid range GTX 670 blows the shit out of PS4 unless you tell me how they gonna bridge the gap b/w 670 and PS4.

I asked in another thread that you didn't believe Carmack when he said 360 and PS3 were similar in power and neither did you believe Crytek when they said no Next-Gen console is going to out perform PC.

tormentos

They don't game on APU because the design is basically new and is not combined with powerful hardware yet,but like i told you the PS4 APU aleady integrate a 78XX GPU,which is actually stronger than most PC GPU out there,and Volcanic Island is coming which is basically a giant APU.

Oh quite easy on consoles developers don't targed 2560x1600,they target 1080p which is even lower than 1920x1200,second developers on consoles don't target 60 FPS,they target 30,not that alone on consoles developers don't target 8Xmsaa,so there is power to spare,and that power will be use for visuals..

Aside from probably minor differences you will not see the 670gtx kick the PS4 any time.

Actually carmack stated that the PS3 had more raw power,but that he liked the xbox 360 more because how friendly it was,to the point were he claimed it was easier to code for 360 than for PC,most of his remraks have been about the PS3 been stronger while the 360 been friendlier.

And in fact i do believe Crytec in that regard,just like i believe them when they say memory was the most important part and that was always unbalance,and that they could pull allot of tricks with allot of ram,now Crytec was one of the few developers who asked for 8GB of memory minimum on consoles.

Glad that you accepted PS4 is way underpowered than GTX 670 and developers are going to make sacrifices on PS4. And in the end you will be playing on a higher graphical fidelty on PC than on PS4.

No, I pretty confident Carmack did say PS3 and 360 were similar in power in one of his recent interviews.

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

 

 

I didn't the API overhead in PC is 0.7 teraflops. I wonder how did games manage to run at all in 2005-2006. And you know what....no PC gamers game on cheap, weaksauce APUs. So he was right when he said COMPARABLE'. ;)

Oh and you didn't answer my question about Carmack's cooments on PS3 vs 360 or Crytek about Next-Gen consoles. Already starting to run away?

tormentos

Funny the PS4 has the strongest APU right now,the most powerul after it is Volcanic Island so that should give you an indication,fun enough most gamers on steam game on 560TI or 550 which is even worst,oh but wait is not over they also do it allow on INTEL integrated sh**,so making fun of weak APU when a high % of people on steam play on Intel HD graphics is a joke,the PS4 APU mops the floor with Intel HD graphics,they may have good CPU but their GPU suck ass.

What question and i haven run away to stop grasping.

You are a liar, Tormentos. Why are you such a liar ? This is totally untrue. 

[QUOTE="Supabul"]

I said it before and I'll say it again, Killzone SF looks better than anything on PC

zeeshanhaider

On your PC may be. Sure as hell looks average compare to the games I play on my PC.

People seem to be forgetting that no every system steam is installed on is for gaming.

My girlfriend has steam on her laptop, she doesn't game on it, she uses it for chat.

 

You are a liar, Tormentos. Why are you such a liar ? This is totally untrue. 

jhonMalcovich

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

You are a liar, Tormentos. Why are you such a liar ? This is totally untrue. 

tormentos

Intel HD Graphics 3000NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 TiIntel HD Graphics 4000NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 TiIntel HD Graphics 2000Intel HD GraphicsGeForce GTX 460NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560ATI Radeon HD 5770NVIDIA GeForce 9600  The 10 most used GPU on Steam..:lol:  http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey But but Tormentos your such a liar.. :lol:

According to that survey, the most used video card is "other" (36%),  which means not all GPU were identified. Those 36% could be an intel integrated GPU OR a SLI-Setup.

Besides,

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 1.28%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 1.38%

ATI Radeon HD 6870 1.32%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 1.27%

ATI Radeon HD 6850 1.27%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 1.09%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 1.06%

ATI Radeon HD 7850 1.06%

ATI Radeon HD 6950 1.04%

ATI Radeon HD 7770 0.83%

ATI Radeon HD 7870 0.65%

ATI Radeon HD 7970 0.62% 

All above mentioned video cards are more powerful than the video cards you mention. And in that list, there are many not listed GPUS such as ATI 5870, ATI 7950, GTX690, Titan, etc.But as I said, there is 36% of unidentified video cards. And if you check the resolution stats the most played resolution is 1080p. And 20.86% game on two monitors.
Check mate. You are a liar.

Old news for me. I been saying for multiplats PS4 is like a PC with a 7950, at least.

very nice lol i must the only owner of a gaming rig that is happy about this

Well at least PS4 can reap the benefits of PC games but not quite at max level, more happy gamers I say unlike some other consoles.

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="Snugenz"]

It's a pointless thread, consoles can be more focused so of course they'll be more effecient with comparable hardware, but PC hardware is already leaps and bounds beyond the PS4 so its a pointless subject.

I'ts non news.

millerlight89

[QUOTE="gpuking"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

Metro Last Light's chief technical officer Oles Shishkovstovfrom 4A confirms what John Carmack has been saying all along.

No, you just cannot compare consoles to PC directly. Consoles could do at least 2x what a comparable PC can due to the fixed platform and low-level access to hardware.  RyviusARC

He also strongly praised PS4's hardware,

We are talking PS4, right? I am very excited about both CPU and GPU. Jaguar is a pretty well-balanced out-of-order core and there are eight of them inside. I always wanted a lot of relatively-low-power cores instead of single super-high-performance one, because it's easier to simply parallelise something instead of changing core-algorithms or chasing every cycle inside critical code segment (not that we don't do that, but very often we can avoid it).

Many beefier cores would be even better, but then we'll be left without a GPU! With regards the graphics core, it's great, simply great. It's a modern-age high-performance compute device with unified memory and multiple compute-contexts. The possibilities of CPU-GPU-CPU communication are endless, we can easily expect games doing, for example, AI pathfinding/route planning executing on GPU to become a common thing.

There are some things which are just more efficient to do on massively parallel machines like GPUs are. I think that at least initially, with launch titles, the GPU-Compute will be underutilised, but during console's lifetime we'll see more and more unbelievable and innovative things purely thanks to GPUs.

I guess Metro LL would run at least Maximum level with some level of tessellation on PS4 at 1080p since a  7850 sli rig should handle more than that.

Maybe if he is talking about the CPU but he is wrong about the GPU.

Otherwise current consoles would completely decimate the 8600gt and instead they perform similar.

API overhead is mainly an issue with CPUs not GPUs.

Exactly

Also APIoverhead on CPU has go down significantly with the DX11.

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

 

But it's not.

A single 7850 will perform similar to a PS4 and an overclocked 7850 will be better.

An 8600gt is similar in power to the current consoles and you don't see consoles blowing it away.

The talking about API overhead on PC is from the CPU side and it doesn't cost much to get a PC CPU that is much stronger than the one in consoles to offset that overhead.

RyviusARC

Fallacies......fallacies everywhere.

Got to love quote mining.....

You also clearly do not understand the Argument from Authority rebuke in the slightest. Argument from authority is inappropriate when the authority is not an expert on the matter at hand. Now you claim they are arguing from authority on the context that the guy who has mentioned this is not an expert in the field, when in fact, he is. So now I ask you; what are your credentials and can you show me any expert opinions that differ from this experts and also John Carmack? In regards to programming close to the hardware providing little to no benefit?

[QUOTE="Frozzik"][QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"] more powerful yes, but you wont see PC games look better then 1st party ps4 games for a whilexboxiphoneps3

PC games are scalable. THat's what the settings menu is for

I tell hermits about Optimization for console and how much better and easier it is for games. They never listen. They just look at PC hardware specs and compare it to Console. Johnathan Blow has said it, John Carmack, Uncharted Devs and now Metro Devs. Nope hermits will never listen, just have to wait for games to speak for them selves.

I tell hermits about Optimization for console and how much better and easier it is for games. They never listen. They just look at PC hardware specs and compare it to Console. Johnathan Blow has said it, John Carmack, Uncharted Devs and now Metro Devs. Nope hermits will never listen, just have to wait for games to speak for them selves.

Mrmedia01

and then PC games look better.