Microsoft,we don't want your LIVE in our PC games...Go away!

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HuusAsking

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#251 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts
[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

'Except that's not the case with any of the devs who's opinions you bring up.

And while it does happen, it's actualy bigger problem on consoles than on PC. THere is a reason why there are almost no indepedent devs left on console market, it's too risky for them to survive on their own, without publisher's deep pockets to fall back onto when your game flops financialy (and nowadays it's not that rare to see a console game making barely any profit with 1mln sales)

darkslider99

Which is why indies will still be attracted to PCs. It's an open platform--no royalties necessary. All you really need is a decent PC, a toolset (which you can download for free if you know where to look), an idea, and some know-how. With a barrier of entry that low, how can consoles compete?


It's more accessible. That's what makes consoles successful. This applies to it being cheaper, more portable, easier to set up, etc... Sure you can play PC games on a TV screen but the majority of people don't know how to do that (or know that youeven can) plus you need to buy additional hardware for it. That's what it comes down to really. Consoles are just more accessible than PCs (I could go on, but I'm sure you understand the idea). I'm not saying consoles are better than PC gaming, just stating an advantage consoles have over PCs (and PC has advantages are consoles as well).

Those are offset by the low development costs, as far as indies are concerned. They have such low gaming budgets they don't need all that much exposure to turn a profit.
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HuusAsking

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#252 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".xsubtownerx

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.

15 years ago, there weren't as many confirmed gamers. Gaming was still a kiddie thing back in 1990. Second, there weren't as many players in the game, nor as many outlets. The Game Boy had only just opened the handheld market, and in consoles it was pretty much between Sega and Nintendo.
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xsubtownerx

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#253 xsubtownerx
Member since 2007 • 10705 Posts
[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".darkslider99

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.


that's a horrible argument. Thre's several consoles, and 'one' PC...if PC had 50%+ of the market that would just be pathetic. Honestly, you need to think before you speak.

I think you need to "think". How is a PC a company? No one "owns" the PC. Putting the PC vs Sony vs MS vs Nintendo isn't right at all. Those are companies competing with each other in the "console" market. You have the computer market and the console market competing with each other. I'm sorry. I'm not buying what any of you are saying. No one has given me a good enough argument that PC gaming is as healthy now as it was 10-15 years ago.

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naval

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#254 naval
Member since 2003 • 11108 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".xsubtownerx

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.

You mean 15 yrs ago pc games sales were 70% of the market ? who gave you that idea ?

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PelekotansDream

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#255 PelekotansDream
Member since 2005 • 7602 Posts
[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".naval

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.

You mean 15 yrs ago pc games sales were 70% of the market ? who gave you that idea ?

I don't think anyone knows the exact specifics but consoles have been gaining more and more popularity, they were not as popular 15 years ago as they are now. Back then it was mainly kids who played SNES or the Mega Drive, now these days there seems to be a much larger variety of ages playing consoles.
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AdrianWerner

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#256 AdrianWerner
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts
[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".PelekotansDream

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.

You mean 15 yrs ago pc games sales were 70% of the market ? who gave you that idea ?

I don't think anyone knows the exact specifics but consoles have been gaining more and more popularity, they were not as popular 15 years ago as they are now. Back then it was mainly kids who played SNES or the Mega Drive, now these days there seems to be a much larger variety of ages playing consoles.

Even back in SNES era PCs weren't the top gaming platform in US, and in Europe they were getting slaughtered by 8bit and 16 bit computers like ZX Spectrum, COmmodore64, Atari XL and then the whole Amiga line

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naval

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#257 naval
Member since 2003 • 11108 Posts
[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".PelekotansDream

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.

You mean 15 yrs ago pc games sales were 70% of the market ? who gave you that idea ?

I don't think anyone knows the exact specifics but consoles have been gaining more and more popularity, they were not as popular 15 years ago as they are now. Back then it was mainly kids who played SNES or the Mega Drive, now these days there seems to be a much larger variety of ages playing consoles.

if you really see that is al just assumptions. i can argue pc gaming is growing become it has very popular in areas where it never existed before much in the 1980's.

from what i can see after 1985 pc were always important part of market share but never dominant like having 70% of market share.

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Meu2k7

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#258 Meu2k7
Member since 2007 • 11809 Posts
[QUOTE="darkslider99"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".xsubtownerx

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.


that's a horrible argument. Thre's several consoles, and 'one' PC...if PC had 50%+ of the market that would just be pathetic. Honestly, you need to think before you speak.

I think you need to "think". How is a PC a company? No one "owns" the PC. Putting the PC vs Sony vs MS vs Nintendo isn't right at all. Those are companies competing with each other in the "console" market. You have the computer market and the console market competing with each other. I'm sorry. I'm not buying what any of you are saying. No one has given me a good enough argument that PC gaming is as healthy now as it was 10-15 years ago.

You have no right to say our arguement is poor when you have given us nothing REAL to argue against. go away, this topic wasnt even FOR this conversation.

Trolling = bad.

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SaintJimmmy

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#259 SaintJimmmy
Member since 2007 • 2815 Posts

Seriously Microsoft,don't try and infect PC gaming aswell with your shoddy service. Incorporating 360's with PC's is the worst idea ever. We don't want live and we don't want 360 games! No hermit wants to play Halo 3 on PC and pay 5 bucks a month for friends lists! I'm perfectly fine playing BF2 online for free with 64 people thanks.

NOTE: I know none of this stuff has happened yet,but you can see this is what Microsoft is trying to start here. They've already incorporated live into shadowrun and gears pc. Soon they'll port Halo 3, then other componies will join windows live,and eventually we'll be paying monthly to pc game!

stephant_6

i 100% agree with this statement xbox live is a great service but its completly inferior 2 regualr PC online services

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HuusAsking

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#260 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts
[QUOTE="darkslider99"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".xsubtownerx

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.


that's a horrible argument. Thre's several consoles, and 'one' PC...if PC had 50%+ of the market that would just be pathetic. Honestly, you need to think before you speak.

I think you need to "think". How is a PC a company? No one "owns" the PC. Putting the PC vs Sony vs MS vs Nintendo isn't right at all. Those are companies competing with each other in the "console" market. You have the computer market and the console market competing with each other. I'm sorry. I'm not buying what any of you are saying. No one has given me a good enough argument that PC gaming is as healthy now as it was 10-15 years ago.

Don't think of the PC as a company. Think of it as a platform, just as each console is a platform. It's an open platform, so anyone can build a machine to the spec, and anyone with the gumption can try to build an application for it--including games. And if the requirements are low enough, a game you build on one PC can run on another PC, so the PC is a platform. If you want "consoles" to be one platform, then the PS3 has to be able to play a 360 game.
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Vandalvideo

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#261 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
I think you need to "think". How is a PC a company? No one "owns" the PC. Putting the PC vs Sony vs MS vs Nintendo isn't right at all. Those are companies competing with each other in the "console" market. You have the computer market and the console market competing with each other. I'm sorry. I'm not buying what any of you are saying. No one has given me a good enough argument that PC gaming is as healthy now as it was 10-15 years ago.xsubtownerx
Because consoles are a passee nomenclature that mean jack in this comparison. The PC, PS3, 360, and Wii are all individual gaming platforms, and I'm comparing them solely on that merit. The PC is the single largest grossing GAMING PLATFORM. Like it or not, PC sales do effect console sales, because they are all gaming platforms. Comparing three "consoles" against the "PC" is an and of itself an unfair comparison.
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xsubtownerx

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#262 xsubtownerx
Member since 2007 • 10705 Posts
[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][QUOTE="darkslider99"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][ This debate is about the health of the future of PC gaming. Not "which console is better".HuusAsking

In that case: According to the PCGA, PC game sales have risen 12% since 2006, and the PC accounted for 30% of ALL games sales in 2007. In case you don't understand those statistics, that means the PC is the single highest grossing platform.

Maybe you can help me further understand how it's PC vs Sony vs MS vs PSP vs DS, and not PC vs Consoles (and maybe vs portables). Wich in that case would be 70-30 when, about 15 years ago, the rolls were reversed.


that's a horrible argument. Thre's several consoles, and 'one' PC...if PC had 50%+ of the market that would just be pathetic. Honestly, you need to think before you speak.

I think you need to "think". How is a PC a company? No one "owns" the PC. Putting the PC vs Sony vs MS vs Nintendo isn't right at all. Those are companies competing with each other in the "console" market. You have the computer market and the console market competing with each other. I'm sorry. I'm not buying what any of you are saying. No one has given me a good enough argument that PC gaming is as healthy now as it was 10-15 years ago.

Don't think of the PC as a company. Think of it as a platform, just as each console is a platform. It's an open platform, so anyone can build a machine to the spec, and anyone with the gumption can try to build an application for it--including games. And if the requirements are low enough, a game you build on one PC can run on another PC, so the PC is a platform. If you want "consoles" to be one platform, then the PS3 has to be able to play a 360 game.

With that logic that would mean all PC games should work on a Mac..

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Vandalvideo

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#263 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
With that logic that would mean all PC games should work on a Mac..xsubtownerx
Ever heard of Wine?
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xsubtownerx

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#264 xsubtownerx
Member since 2007 • 10705 Posts

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]I think you need to "think". How is a PC a company? No one "owns" the PC. Putting the PC vs Sony vs MS vs Nintendo isn't right at all. Those are companies competing with each other in the "console" market. You have the computer market and the console market competing with each other. I'm sorry. I'm not buying what any of you are saying. No one has given me a good enough argument that PC gaming is as healthy now as it was 10-15 years ago.Vandalvideo
Because consoles are a passee nomenclature that mean jack in this comparison. The PC, PS3, 360, and Wii are all individual gaming platforms, and I'm comparing them solely on that merit. The PC is the single largest grossing GAMING PLATFORM. Like it or not, PC sales do effect console sales, because they are all gaming platforms. Comparing three "consoles" against the "PC" is an and of itself an unfair comparison.

Well I disagree with that theory. It's all a matter of opinion at this point. Time will tell the future of PC gaming.

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xsubtownerx

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#265 xsubtownerx
Member since 2007 • 10705 Posts

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]With that logic that would mean all PC games should work on a Mac..Vandalvideo
Ever heard of Wine?

No. unless you mean red or white wine.

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Vandalvideo

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#266 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]I think you need to "think". How is a PC a company? No one "owns" the PC. Putting the PC vs Sony vs MS vs Nintendo isn't right at all. Those are companies competing with each other in the "console" market. You have the computer market and the console market competing with each other. I'm sorry. I'm not buying what any of you are saying. No one has given me a good enough argument that PC gaming is as healthy now as it was 10-15 years ago.xsubtownerx

Because consoles are a passee nomenclature that mean jack in this comparison. The PC, PS3, 360, and Wii are all individual gaming platforms, and I'm comparing them solely on that merit. The PC is the single largest grossing GAMING PLATFORM. Like it or not, PC sales do effect console sales, because they are all gaming platforms. Comparing three "consoles" against the "PC" is an and of itself an unfair comparison.

Well I disagree with that theory. It's all a matter of opinion at this point. Time will tell the future of PC gaming.

A matter of opinion? Oh please, you're using passee nomenclature to justify your own jaded view point. The fact of the matter is that the PC is a single gaming platform, while the 360 is a single gaming platform, while the PS3 is a single gaming platform, etc. Consoles are merely a means to classify things with similar traits. That does not mean, however, that the PC is not a gaming platform. It plays games, therefore it is. And PC game sales DO effect console sales. They're all in the same market. Deny it all you want, run away all you want, I'm right.
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Vandalvideo

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#267 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]With that logic that would mean all PC games should work on a Mac..xsubtownerx

Ever heard of Wine?

No. unless you mean red or white wine.

Ugh. Wine is a program on mac computers that allow you to run windows games.
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AdrianWerner

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#268 AdrianWerner
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]With that logic that would mean all PC games should work on a Mac..Vandalvideo
Ever heard of Wine?

You do not even need wine, with boot camp and switch to Intel architcture Windows are able to be installed on Macs and OSX can be installed on PCs

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Makari

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#269 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
I don't think anyone knows the exact specifics but consoles have been gaining more and more popularity, they were not as popular 15 years ago as they are now. Back then it was mainly kids who played SNES or the Mega Drive, now these days there seems to be a much larger variety of ages playing consoles.PelekotansDream
I do know some of the specifics, actually! But yeah... back then we were younger, it was generally what we played, and we naturally assumed it was only us. Remember that statistic being bandied about with the average age of a 'gamer' being in his 30's, and having played for an average of over 12 years. That's a lot of people above the average to counteract all the younger gamers and newcomers today. If nothing else, if you read any of the links people have been tossing around, a few of them mention that PC gaming revenue has more or less proportionally held even compared to console + handheld revenue for the last 15+ years. i.e. PC gaming isn't dying now, it's never been dying - in the big picture, it basically hasn't budged up or down in well over a decade. Anyway, MMORPGs and casual games are breaking that pattern a bit, but nobody keeps track of those sales numbers, nor looks at casual PC games as something to be compared in this way. There's an awful lot of bored soccer moms at home that want to play Zuma or Bookworm. And there's a massive older demographic - think AARP+-aged - that has been getting into those games. But again, we simply don't pay attention to them in these comparisons, nor will we.
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HuusAsking

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#270 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]With that logic that would mean all PC games should work on a Mac..AdrianWerner

Ever heard of Wine?

You do not even need wine, with boot camp and switch to Intel architcture Windows are able to be installed on Macs and OSX can be installed on PCs

Platform virtualizers from companies like Parallels are blurring the line even further. They can't really do games yet, but they're working on it.

Anyway, because there are enough architectual differences, Macs are considered a separate platform and such a small piece of the computer market that, for the time being, it can safely be ignored.

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Danm_999

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#271 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]With that logic that would mean all PC games should work on a Mac..xsubtownerx

Ever heard of Wine?

No. unless you mean red or white wine.

Of course you haven't. You've shown you know very little about modern PC gaming.

And what happened to being done in this topic?

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Hewkii

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#272 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts

15 years ago, there weren't as many confirmed gamers. Gaming was still a kiddie thing back in 1990. Second, there weren't as many players in the game, nor as many outlets. The Game Boy had only just opened the handheld market, and in consoles it was pretty much between Sega and Nintendo.HuusAsking

Arcades were also still popular around then, I believe.

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HuusAsking

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#273 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]15 years ago, there weren't as many confirmed gamers. Gaming was still a kiddie thing back in 1990. Second, there weren't as many players in the game, nor as many outlets. The Game Boy had only just opened the handheld market, and in consoles it was pretty much between Sega and Nintendo.Hewkii

Arcades were also still popular around then, I believe.

Point taken. Arcades have definitely taken a serious slide--at least stateside. I hear they still attract gamers in Asia, though. Can't tell where Europe stands.
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MadExponent

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#274 MadExponent
Member since 2003 • 11454 Posts
Yeah I have to say that I do NOT want LIVE on my PC. It is absolutely unnecessary and would just add bloatware to people's PC's. PC gamers will survive without it just fine.