MS will be in a really bad position when they release their next console

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]

[QUOTE="ImportBMWRacer"]All right, I started to think you were doing this with a " I live under a bridge" kind of reason, but it seems that you trul believe this nonsens...PLEASE show me some FACTS, that OTHER PRESTIGIOUS editors/sites/ANYONE ELSE has stated where it will be like this...

You are so CLUELESS and contradict yourself constantly...Windows 7 already has 32% of the entire WOS share, which something up anywhere from 65%-85% of the entire market! The 360 is in 2ND PLACE, PS3 is in LAST PLACE....

As for the "AVERAGE" consumer, possible Identity theft, CC Fraud is a WAAAAAAAY bigger deal than the RROD fiasco...

I can only assume that you are young and naive....Either way most of what you say is pure speculation, most of which will never happen...

Anyways, please leaveImportBMWRacer

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]The 360 is my favourite console since the SNES but its going to take a miracle for them to wow me next time. They'll support the worthless Kinect more than the gamers that welcomed them into this industry and any exclusive will likely go multiplat.tomarlyn

I hate to be the one to break this to you but the vast majority of the gaming public does not care about exclusives anywhere near as much as you seem to think they do.

Exclusives are one of the main reasons why people buy a system, if they get it for multiplats it's based on price point which Nintendo will have MS beaten in, and the fact that ps3 is outselling both wii and 360 this years seems to prove people do care aout eclusives

You obviously don't know as much as you think you do about this subject. Tell me, why is it that the majority of multi-million sellers on the PS3 and Xbox 360 are multiplatform titles? Why is it that sales spike during the launch of games such as Call of Duty: Insert subtitle here, Grand Theft Auto IV, Madden, popular sports titles and so on? Exclusives are not the main reason people purchase consoles. Casual gamers do not pay much attention to what's exclusive and what isn't and they are the vast majority of the gaming population.

The Playstation 1 and 2 both had rampant hardware problems and Sony was successfully sued over the PS2's Disc Read Error issues. That didn't stop people from buying the PS3 this generation so it is highly doubtful that it will affect Microsoft next generation.

Rampant lol, ps1 and ps2 had issues but no where near 360, the original xbox was worse then either of those and no retailer ever increased the price for warrenty on xbox or ps2 only 360, the 360s failrate was insanely higher then either the ps1 or ps2

Yes, the PS2's issues were only slightly worse than the 360's RROD. The original Xbox had issues but it truly was nowhere near as faulty as the PS2, whose issues were publicized in the mass media for years. Again, Sony was successfully sued over the PS2's DREs, which means that the problem was quite significant, as was the RROD. Your assumption that people will be more aware this time around of the 360's problems and that people shyed away from buying the PS3 because of the PS2's issues are just that, assumptions. Unless you can prove them, you don't have a leg to stand on here.

Excuse me? The Xbox 360 is selling incredibly well and is showing no signs of dwindling third party support. And what makes you think developers won't support the next Xbox? The PS2's ubiquity didn't stop developers from supporting the Xbox 360 when it was released and I highly doubt the PS3 and Xbox 360's continued existence (yes, the Xbox 360 will continue to exist. It is still a very profitable and high selling system. It won't be killed off early.) will stop developers from supporting the next Xbox.

No signs of dwindling third party support lol really, 3rd party 360 excluisves have stopped except for kinect shovelware and ones MS commison pretty much and MS is even having trouble getting third parties to sign on, not to mention losing bungie and epic, and well 360 might be selling well for the moment it's userbase isn't as healthy as the ps3s and with the lack of exclusives all 360 has going for it is kinect which frankly won't last, it will continue to exist but it will slow down more then the wii has in the next few years

And how many third party exclusives does Sony have, again? Third party exclusives are dying out pretty much across the board, not just for Microsoft and the 360 is seeing just as much developer support as Sony is these days. Microsoft did not lose Epic because they never had them in the first place. The 360's userbase is just as healthy (if not more so) as the PS3s. I really don't know where you're getting the idea that the PS3's userbase is somehow better than the 360s. And...yet again, you're making baseless assumptions about where the 360 will be in a few years when the sales of the console have not been declining in recent months...right. Good luck with that.

It didn't stop people from buying the 360 this generation and it won't stop people from buying the next generation Xbox. In fact, it's probably more likely that Sony and Nintendo will start charging for their online services than MS to be hurt by charging for theirs.

Wrong, it stopped a ton of people who weren't ignorant about it from buying it this gen, and it's going to stop even more next gen due to less ignorance esepcially on launch when no ones friends own it

And I assume you can prove that to be true using actual facts and not more assumptions? I'd really like to see some of that.

MS already has their act in gear. People made these same doom and gloom claims about the 360 at one point and it turned out to be the second best selling system this generation, placing Sony, a favorite to lead this generation as they had generations past, soundly in third place. Everything you've said is based on largely baseless assumptions about Microsoft's position next generation that hasn't been backed up by any sort of factual evidence.

Actually it's going to turn out to be the third best selling so last, and ps3s userbase is already surpassed it, as soon as kinect dies, the 360 dies, unless MS starts making more games which they don't even have the devs for

The PS3's userbase has not surpassed the 360's. Sure, it is gaining on the 360 but it has not surpassed it yet. Kinect will not die. It is selling very well and is seeing a great deal of developer support from MS and third parties. Again, your assumptions are baseless.

momentum_god

Um that has more in common with cloud gaming then it does online gaming, since you get the games with it, and one could argue your paying for the games no the online or the box for the online even...

momentum_god

[QUOTE="Recarnator"]

[QUOTE="momentum_god"] Of course Sony is going to pay, charging for online now would be suicide, just like if MS didn't pay for the RROD the 360 wouldn't still be alive momentum_god

MS didn't actually pay for the RROD, they slowly fixed the problem.

Phasing out the old models slowly butt steady. It wasn't a total loss.

At the end of the day we have the new SEXY XBOX 360 Model.

Now shut up and go and buy one.

There is a reason why popular MMO's like WoW, RIFT etc. charge monthly fees.

Its servers that need maintained and upgraded no wonder PSN got hacked by some 17 year old chump. They don't have the resources to maintain the network. The money has to come from somewhere. Sony started with PSN Plus, this seriously not the end of subscription fees by Sony this is just the beginning.

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="Recarnator"]

MS didn't actually pay for the RROD, they slowly fixed the problem.

Phasing out the old models slowly butt steady. It wasn't a total loss.

At the end of the day we have the new SEXY XBOX 360 Model.

Now shut up and go and buy one.

Recarnator

There is a reason why popular MMO's like WoW, RIFT etc. charge monthly fees.

Its servers that need maintained and upgraded no wonder PSN got hacked by some 17 year old chump. They don't have the resources to maintain the network. The money has to come from somewhere. Sony started with PSN Plus, this seriously not the end of subscription fees by Sony this is just the beginning.

this.

don't see how they can keep this service going for nothing.

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]-Why would people want to pay for a service they can get free? On a console they can get cheaper with all the same multiplats? Ignorance is the only reason people are paying for it this gen, not many will do it again Andrew_Xavier

You obviously don't know as much as you think you do about this subject. Tell me, why is it that the majority of multi-million sellers on the PS3 and Xbox 360 are multiplatform titles? Why is it that sales spike during the launch of games such as Call of Duty: Insert subtitle here, Grand Theft Auto IV, Madden, popular sports titles and so on? Exclusives are not the main reason people purchase consoles. Casual gamers do not pay much attention to what's exclusive and what isn't and they are the vast majority of the gaming population.

You are forgetting one thing, companies advertise exclusives, sure the average joe isn't aware of the list of exclusives but if they see a game they want with a only on ps3 on tv they are going to be more inclinded to get ps3 and exclusives might not be the reason purcase consoles but it certainly plays a massive role in which console they purchase, otherwise only the cheaper one would sell which again 360 won't be, so why are people going to get the 360 if it doesn't have any games they want that they can get elsewhere for cheaper?

Yes, the PS2's issues were only slightly worse than the 360's RROD. The original Xbox had issues but it truly was nowhere near as faulty as the PS2, whose issues were publicized in the mass media for years. Again, Sony was successfully sued over the PS2's DREs, which means that the problem was quite significant, as was the RROD. Your assumption that people will be more aware this time around of the 360's problems and that people shyed away from buying the PS3 because of the PS2's issues are just that, assumptions. Unless you can prove them, you don't have a leg to stand on here.

Nope 360s were far worse the fact 360 is the only one retailers increased the warrenty price for proves that beyond any resonable doubts and the ps2 didn't cost Sony billions, 360s was most probbably the console with the biggest failrate in history by a significant margin, fact is more people have had a problems with 360 then didn't so the 360 userbase (the most likely source for the next xbox) is well aware of it even if someone without a console isn't

And how many third party exclusives does Sony have, again? Third party exclusives are dying out pretty much across the board, not just for Microsoft and the 360 is seeing just as much developer support as Sony is these days. Microsoft did not lose Epic because they never had them in the first place. The 360's userbase is just as healthy (if not more so) as the PS3s. I really don't know where you're getting the idea that the PS3's userbase is somehow better than the 360s. And...yet again, you're making baseless assumptions about where the 360 will be in a few years when the sales of the console have not been declining in recent months...right. Good luck with that.

Schedualed to release this year or in development? because I can count how many this year give or take delays, hold on 9 retail NA, 18 retail total released/schuduled for this year not even going to do psn there's so many, and yes MS is seeing as much support for multiplats as Sony instead of more like before in this gen, and nope ps3s is the healthiest and bigger then the 360s, and I get the idea from the fact that it was on every gaming news site, 360s failrate is so bad that despite more sales ps3s userbase is bigger, and not baseless, 10 million kinects sold most of them 360 bundles, and yet 360 is still below ps3 sales, obviously kinect is the main thing selling 360

And I assume you can prove that to be true using actual facts and not more assumptions? I'd really like to see some of that.

I frequent which consoles should I get topics on many sites, several times charging for online has turned people off of 360 not to mention the people I inform in real life feel free to look into it

The PS3's userbase has not surpassed the 360's. Sure, it is gaining on the 360 but it has not surpassed it yet. Kinect will not die. It is selling very well and is seeing a great deal of developer support from MS and third parties. Again, your assumptions are baseless.

Here's the linkhttp://gamer.blorge.com/2011/04/03/analysts-ps3-installed-base-larger-than-xbox-360-currently/, and Kinect hasn't had a good game since launch lol

The_Game21x

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="Recarnator"]

MS didn't actually pay for the RROD, they slowly fixed the problem.

Phasing out the old models slowly butt steady. It wasn't a total loss.

At the end of the day we have the new SEXY XBOX 360 Model.

Now shut up and go and buy one.

Recarnator

There is a reason why popular MMO's like WoW, RIFT etc. charge monthly fees.

Its servers that need maintained and upgraded no wonder PSN got hacked by some 17 year old chump. They don't have the resources to maintain the network. The money has to come from somewhere. Sony started with PSN Plus, this seriously not the end of subscription fees by Sony this is just the beginning.

[QUOTE="Recarnator"]

[QUOTE="momentum_god"] They paid for replacement/repairs of the RROD just like Sony will pay for repairs/upgrades for psnScoob64

There is a reason why popular MMO's like WoW, RIFT etc. charge monthly fees.

Its servers that need maintained and upgraded no wonder PSN got hacked by some 17 year old chump. They don't have the resources to maintain the network. The money has to come from somewhere. Sony started with PSN Plus, this seriously not the end of subscription fees by Sony this is just the beginning.

this.

don't see how they can keep this service going for nothing.

[QUOTE="Recarnator"]

[QUOTE="momentum_god"] They paid for replacement/repairs of the RROD just like Sony will pay for repairs/upgrades for psnmomentum_god

There is a reason why popular MMO's like WoW, RIFT etc. charge monthly fees.

Its servers that need maintained and upgraded no wonder PSN got hacked by some 17 year old chump. They don't have the resources to maintain the network. The money has to come from somewhere. Sony started with PSN Plus, this seriously not the end of subscription fees by Sony this is just the beginning.

What profits? "Cut into their profits" at the cost of millions of people around the world? Are you kidding me? After this gigantic network fail, there is going to massive a loss.

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]

[QUOTE="ImportBMWRacer"] Actually there is CC fraud is a possibility, and ONCE the average consumer has it in their head the damage has been done...As for "Identity theft" there are plenty of forms in taking someones identity without using their SS...You are obviously clueless, you dodged most of my post, as you have no rebute for it. People have plenty of choices as far as what OS to use....Hence the different OS systems being used by millions of people....So are you sure you have any idea what your talking about? You can hate a company all you want, but realize unless you have an actual reason for that hatred you will basically be by yourself in your views...So like I said leave:)ImportBMWRacer

You seem to ignore facts and replace them with WILD (some would say InSaNe) assumptions! Ignore what is true, it only makes you look foolish...

Anyways I was right, you were wrong....

In fact you could replace "I" from the previous sentence and replace it with basically any user from this thread....You are just clueless, though as I have asked, and many others please link us to these facts you continue to shout out.

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="Scoob64"]

this.

don't see how they can keep this service going for nothing.

AncientDozer

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="Recarnator"]

There is a reason why popular MMO's like WoW, RIFT etc. charge monthly fees.

Its servers that need maintained and upgraded no wonder PSN got hacked by some 17 year old chump. They don't have the resources to maintain the network. The money has to come from somewhere. Sony started with PSN Plus, this seriously not the end of subscription fees by Sony this is just the beginning.

Recarnator

What profits? "Cut into their profits" at the cost of millions of people around the world? Are you kidding me? After this gigantic network fail, there is going to massive a loss.

How could you possibly think 360 sales are dwindling when they are way up year over year?!wolverine4262

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"]How could you possibly think 360 sales are dwindling when they are way up year over year?!momentum_god

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

You are forgetting one thing, companies advertise exclusives, sure the average joe isn't aware of the list of exclusives but if they see a game they want with a only on ps3 on tv they are going to be more inclinded to get ps3 and exclusives might not be the reason purcase consoles but it certainly plays a massive role in which console they purchase, otherwise only the cheaper one would sell which again 360 won't be, so why are people going to get the 360 if it doesn't have any games they want that they can get elsewhere for cheaper?

The Xbox 360's Arcade SKU, which ships with 4GB of memory is currently cheaper than the PS3. By your logic, the 360 should be outpacing the PS3 by a considerable margin, since multiplatform titles can be found on the cheaper system. Aside from Gran Turismo 5, PS3 exclusives are not known to move a lot of systems in the way 360 exclusives such as Halo and Gears of War are capable of doing so the PS3's exclusives (of which it currently has more of than the 360) aren't anywhere near as big of a factor as you think.

Nope 360s were far worse the fact 360 is the only one retailers increased the warrenty price for proves that beyond any resonable doubts and the ps2 didn't cost Sony billions, 360s was most probbably the console with the biggest failrate in history by a significant margin, fact is more people have had a problems with 360 then didn't so the 360 userbase (the most likely source for the next xbox) is well aware of it even if someone without a console isn't

You keep saying the 360's issues were far (emphasis on the word "far") worse but you've yet to prove that to be true. The RROD didn't cost MS billions of dollars either. The 2 billion they supposedly "lost" were not, in fact, lost but written off to cover potential costs of RRoD repair. There's a difference between the two.

Schedualed to release this year or in development? because I can count how many this year give or take delays, hold on 9 retail NA, 18 retail total released/schuduled for this year not even going to do psn there's so many, and yes MS is seeing as much support for multiplats as Sony instead of more like before in this gen, and nope ps3s is the healthiest and bigger then the 360s, and I get the idea from the fact that it was on every gaming news site, 360s failrate is so bad that despite more sales ps3s userbase is bigger, and not baseless, 10 million kinects sold most of them 360 bundles, and yet 360 is still below ps3 sales, obviously kinect is the main thing selling 360

Where is the proof to back up any of these highlighted statements?

I frequent which consoles should I get topics on many sites, several times charging for online has turned people off of 360 not to mention the people I inform in real life feel free to look into it

So...no actual proof then?

Here's the linkhttp://gamer.blorge.com/2011/04/03/analysts-ps3-installed-base-larger-than-xbox-360-currently/, and Kinect hasn't had a good game since launch lol

That's not proof, that's an analyst's prediction. According to just about every source I've seen that tabulates total global sales, the Xbox 360 is still on top.

momentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="wolverine4262"]How could you possibly think 360 sales are dwindling when they are way up year over year?!wolverine4262

[QUOTE="Recarnator"]

[QUOTE="momentum_god"] Only Sony does have the resources to maintain it, they just didn't want to upgrade since it'd cut into their profits momentum_god

What profits? "Cut into their profits" at the cost of millions of people around the world? Are you kidding me? After this gigantic network fail, there is going to massive a loss.

After 5 years you would think Sony would be trying to MAKE money instead of SPENDING it................... No wonder AGAIN... PSN got Hacked my some chump.

MS has really bad support of consoles nearing and after the release of their next, their support is already fading sales haven't tiered off yet because of kinect but they will momentum_god

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="momentum_god"] Third party support =/= sales please reread my original postmomentum_god

They have had only 1 console transition, and the only reason they stopped supporting the Original Xbox so quickly was because they weren't going to see a single bit of profit from it.

The Xbox 360's Arcade SKU, which ships with 4GB of memory is currently cheaper than the PS3. By your logic, the 360 should be outpacing the PS3 by a considerable margin, since multiplatform titles can be found on the cheaper system. Aside from Gran Turismo 5, PS3 exclusives are not known to move a lot of systems in the way 360 exclusives such as Halo and Gears of War are capable of doing so the PS3's exclusives (of which it currently has more of than the 360) aren't anywhere near as big of a factor as you think.

Thats under the assumption people don't care about exclusives, which they obviously do since ps3 is outselling 360 worldwide and has been for years, so obviously exclusives are more important then multiplats when people decide which system they want to get

You keep saying the 360's issues were far (emphasis on the word "far") worse but you've yet to prove that to be true. The RROD didn't cost MS billions of dollars either. The 2 billion they supposedly "lost" were not, in fact, lost but written off to cover potential costs of RRoD repair. There's a difference between the two.

So what would you call spending 2 billion dollars on a screw up if not lost? Its not coming back and it didn't get you anything

Schedualed to release this year or in development? because I can count how many this year give or take delays, hold on 9 retail NA, 18 retail total released/schuduled for this year not even going to do psn there's so many, and yes MS is seeing as much support for multiplats as Sony instead of more like before in this gen, and nope ps3s is the healthiest and bigger then the 360s, and I get the idea from the fact that it was on every gaming news site, 360s failrate is so bad that despite more sales ps3s userbase is bigger, and not baseless, 10 million kinects sold most of them 360 bundles, and yet 360 is still below ps3 sales, obviously kinect is the main thing selling 360

Where is the proof to back up any of these highlighted statements?

You're right I was wrong, Sony is getting more support from 3rd parties on multiplats not the same (steam for portal 2, exclusives character for MvC, get extration with dead space 2 ect. and how much proof do you want, me to link one thread where a guy said he's not going to get a 360 because of the online fees or want me to start a petition and get 1000 signatures of people saying it or something? Or maybe google results # for I'm not getting a 360 because of online fees, I have a feeling none of these would statisfy you so I'm not going to try

So...no actual proof then?

Plenty of proof just too much of a hassle for something you will dismiss due to your biased

That's not proof, that's an analyst's prediction. According to just about every source I've seen that tabulates total global sales, the Xbox 360 is still on top.

Sales=/=active install base, 360 has sold more, ps3 has a higher active install base (console hooked up to tv) most likely due to the 360s failrate and wii is sitting on top, well actually ps2The_Game21x

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="momentum_god"] Third party support =/= sales please reread my original postImportBMWRacer

If your not smoking weed,meth, snorting coke, sniffing paint thinner , aersol and eating shrooms at the same time, while dangling upside down than your not going to understand what he means...

He spews out rabble and claims it as fact....Once again please link us to each of these claims! or better yet just leave:P

Too many "people will" and "people will not" (speculation at best) for it to be a solid argument. Way too many.

The facts, MS made money this gen, sold a lot of consoles, built a very good relationship with third party devs and further established the Xbox brand, all of which indicate a very solid position for the next generation.

MS 1st party is weak, yes. I doubt most outside gaming fanatics, like those of us who post know or care. Second, I look at this company, and cant believe because there arent many on the horizon that we know of other than Kinect titles, they will never be making exclusives again. Seems short sighted. With the nightly news now covering Sony's online problems, they have a security black eye as well. As for charging for online, have to see if Sony decides next gen if they cant afford to gobble up some of that pie, after this latest hit, I would not blame them. cainetao11

[QUOTE="momentum_god"] MS has really bad support of consoles nearing and after the release of their next, their support is already fading sales haven't tiered off yet because of kinect but they will wolverine4262

Too many "people will" and "people will not" (speculation at best) for it to be a solid argument. Way too many.

The facts, MS made money this gen, sold a lot of consoles, built a very good relationship with third party devs and further established the Xbox brand, all of which indicate a very solid position for the next generation.

IronBass

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="momentum_god"] MS has really bad support of consoles nearing and after the release of their next, their support is already fading sales haven't tiered off yet because of kinect but they will momentum_god

Too many "people will" and "people will not" (speculation at best) for it to be a solid argument. Way too many.

The facts, MS made money this gen, sold a lot of consoles, built a very good relationship with third party devs and further established the Xbox brand, all of which indicate a very solid position for the next generation.

IronBass

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

Too many "people will" and "people will not" (speculation at best) for it to be a solid argument. Way too many.

The facts, MS made money this gen, sold a lot of consoles, built a very good relationship with third party devs and further established the Xbox brand, all of which indicate a very solid position for the next generation.

momentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="wolverine4262"] Im not really sure what you are talking about. There has only been one system transition for them. How could you possibly extrapolate that into meaning that they do this with every system ever? The OG Xbox sales were on the down when 360 was announced, while the 360 continues to sell better and better. There is no comparison here. The two situations are completely different. There is no mass exodus of devs from the 360. Its just not happening. wolverine4262

The Xbox 360's Arcade SKU, which ships with 4GB of memory is currently cheaper than the PS3. By your logic, the 360 should be outpacing the PS3 by a considerable margin, since multiplatform titles can be found on the cheaper system. Aside from Gran Turismo 5, PS3 exclusives are not known to move a lot of systems in the way 360 exclusives such as Halo and Gears of War are capable of doing so the PS3's exclusives (of which it currently has more of than the 360) aren't anywhere near as big of a factor as you think.

Thats under the assumption people don't care about exclusives, which they obviously do since ps3 is outselling 360 worldwide and has been for years, so obviously exclusives are more important then multiplats when people decide which system they want to get

The Playstation 3 has been outselling the Xbox 360 because of its increased brand presence over the Xbox name. The Playstation name has been around longer and has been around far longer than the Xbox name and thus carries with it a good deal of recognition behind it. Exclusives are a factor in which system people buy but not as much as you think.

You keep saying the 360's issues were far (emphasis on the word "far") worse but you've yet to prove that to be true. The RROD didn't cost MS billions of dollars either. The 2 billion they supposedly "lost" were not, in fact, lost but written off to cover potential costs of RRoD repair. There's a difference between the two.

So what would you call spending 2 billion dollars on a screw up if not lost? Its not coming back and it didn't get you anything

It's not 2 billion dollars spent. It was 2 billion written off. There's a difference, as I said.

Schedualed to release this year or in development? because I can count how many this year give or take delays, hold on 9 retail NA, 18 retail total released/schuduled for this year not even going to do psn there's so many, and yes MS is seeing as much support for multiplats as Sony instead of more like before in this gen, and nope ps3s is the healthiest and bigger then the 360s, and I get the idea from the fact that it was on every gaming news site, 360s failrate is so bad that despite more sales ps3s userbase is bigger, and not baseless, 10 million kinects sold most of them 360 bundles, and yet 360 is still below ps3 sales, obviously kinect is the main thing selling 360

Where is the proof to back up any of these highlighted statements?

You're right I was wrong, Sony is getting more support from 3rd parties on multiplats not the same (steam for portal 2, exclusives character for MvC, get extration with dead space 2 ect. and how much proof do you want, me to link one thread where a guy said he's not going to get a 360 because of the online fees or want me to start a petition and get 1000 signatures of people saying it or something? Or maybe google results # for I'm not getting a 360 because of online fees, I have a feeling none of these would statisfy you so I'm not going to try

Sony has been shelling out more than Microsoft to secure exclusive content as of late. Companies don't just offer exclusives for free you know.

And I just asked for proof. I'm sorry you can't provide any but don't make assumptions on how I will react to any actual proof you provide. So, I'll say again, do you have any proof to back up your claim that people are, by and large, avoiding the Xbox 360 because Microsoft charges for Xbox Live or are we done here?

So...no actual proof then?

Plenty of proof just too much of a hassle for something you will dismiss due to your biased

You're calling me biased? :lol: As I said above, I'm just asking for factual proof. It's not my fault that you can't provide it.

That's not proof, that's an analyst's prediction. According to just about every source I've seen that tabulates total global sales, the Xbox 360 is still on top.

Sales=/=active install base, 360 has sold more, ps3 has a higher active install base (console hooked up to tv) most likely due to the 360s failrate and wii is sitting on top, well actually ps2

Again, we don't have any actual proof that those estimations are correct. Oh, but wait, that's just me being biased again. :lol:

momentum_god

More facts their relationships with 3rd parties is already dwindlingmomentum_god

Practically every single third party game is coming to the 360 this year, and that has been the trend the last couple of years. Whatever definition of "dwindling" you are applying here, it doesn't change how good the relationship between MS and third party developers is.

they charge for online without providing a superior online gaming service, their dev teams are less and less talented then Sonys and Nintendos and they made the console with the worse failrate a few times over this gen all which are indicate a very weak position for the next gen momentum_god

Nothing of that is new, or even recent, and yet MS just reported record Q3 sales, so it's evident those things aren't an indicative of anything.

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

Too many "people will" and "people will not" (speculation at best) for it to be a solid argument. Way too many.

The facts, MS made money this gen, sold a lot of consoles, built a very good relationship with third party devs and further established the Xbox brand, all of which indicate a very solid position for the next generation.

wolverine4262

Ps3s install base is bigger so is wii's and they might not have to at this moment so continue making a profit but they will have to next gen, and they don't seem to realize that as they sell off their devs and it's going to bite them momentum_god

[QUOTE="cainetao11"]MS 1st party is weak, yes. I doubt most outside gaming fanatics, like those of us who post know or care. Second, I look at this company, and cant believe because there arent many on the horizon that we know of other than Kinect titles, they will never be making exclusives again. Seems short sighted. With the nightly news now covering Sony's online problems, they have a security black eye as well. As for charging for online, have to see if Sony decides next gen if they cant afford to gobble up some of that pie, after this latest hit, I would not blame them. momentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]More facts their relationships with 3rd parties is already dwindlingIronBass

Practically every single third party game is coming to the 360 this year, and that has been the trend the last couple of years. Whatever definition of "dwindling" you are applying here, it doesn't change how good the relationship between MS and third party developers is.

they charge for online without providing a superior online gaming service, their dev teams are less and less talented then Sonys and Nintendos and they made the console with the worse failrate a few times over this gen all which are indicate a very weak position for the next gen momentum_god

Nothing of thati s new, or even recent,yet MS just reported record Q3 sales, so it's evident those things aren't an indicative of anything.

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="momentum_god"] More facts their relationships with 3rd parties is already dwindling, they charge for online without providing a superior online gaming service, their dev teams are less and less talented then Sonys and Nintendos and they made the console with the worse failrate a few times over this gen all which are indicate a very weak position for the next gen momentum_god

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

Too many "people will" and "people will not" (speculation at best) for it to be a solid argument. Way too many.

The facts, MS made money this gen, sold a lot of consoles, built a very good relationship with third party devs and further established the Xbox brand, all of which indicate a very solid position for the next generation.

momentum_god

For alot of reasons I'll bullet point them for coinvinence and readability

-Lack of quality exclusives: It's no secret that MSes 1st party is the weakest of the 3 and add to that the fact that they pretty much destroyed (rare), sold off (bioware) or failed to secure (epic/bungie) next gen they will be in the weakest position launch lineup wise, and even if they commision games to be made people will be skepticial if they will retain exclusivity will all the timed exclusive deals MS has done in the past

-Reliability concerns: although it's doubtful that MS will repeat the horrible mistakes of the 360s reliability it will still have many people concerend

-It will be stuck between the ps3, nintendos next console and ps4: Nintendos console will launch ealier and have the headstart and core games this time as well as third party support, ps3 will be selling to everyone who wants a reliable system and low price point and it will have the highest install base so devs will cater to it over the next xbox (360 will have died off or lost almost all suport it's already starting to dwindle) and ps4 will come out a little later and probably beat it in raw power, so 360 really won't have much of a market looking at it ps3 and nintendos system will both have higher install base, lower price point, more and better games, and ps4 will come out a little later with more power and probably a better launch line up (unless Sony tries to pull a double gen for ps3)

-Charging for online: alot of people were ignorant to it or thought they wouldn't care about online when they bought a 360 (just went with the one with lower prince point) or in some cases weren't aware that no1 else charged so yeah people won't be too eager to do that again, especially if Nintendo makes a respectable online service and Sony improves psn significantly before bringing it back up

so yeah I'm sure some people will buy the next xbox but I just don't see it appealing to that many people the biggest snag will be the games unless MS gets their act in gear I just don't see them selling much at all next gen, maybe even end up giving up the console buisness

momentum_god

Valve would be the clearest example of what I mean by MSes dwindling relationships with 3rd partiesmomentum_god

Ifadeveloper giving the PS3 version of a game also onthe 360 is what you're talking about, then you have just pointed a trend that has defined both Sony and MS. A trend that actually has benefitted MS more than Sony this gen, but that's besides the point.

The point is, additional content is hardly an indication of anything, it's way too common and has too little effect.

and those things will effect next gen launch more then this gen 5 years inmomentum_god

That's speculation (again) and I already explained why they don't built a solid argument.

Unless you can back up your arguments with something more than "it will happen next gen" (speculation), I see little point in continuing this conversation, because predicting the future can be a very pointless exercise.

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="momentum_god"] MS has really bad support of consoles nearing and after the release of their next, their support is already fading sales haven't tiered off yet because of kinect but they will momentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

Too many "people will" and "people will not" (speculation at best) for it to be a solid argument. Way too many.

The facts, MS made money this gen, sold a lot of consoles, built a very good relationship with third party devs and further established the Xbox brand, all of which indicate a very solid position for the next generation.

cainetao11