Natal has zero funtionality in actual gaming, lets stop pretending it will

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Baranga

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#151 Baranga
Member since 2005 • 14217 Posts

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"] So you'd like turn Halo into some sort of crap waggle fest. Thats the reason most Wii games are terrible you know.nhh18

The Conduit may be crap, but it has flawless controls. So does Metroid. And the other good games.

You disregard "waggle fest" just as people disregarded the Wiimote, simply because it involves a bit more movement than just pressing buttons. If you think learning to move your freakin' forearm is hard, you've got a problem.

Except it has buttons and a controller. What will natal become. Just a video camera where you are holding a controller with. Then why does natal even need to exist?

Except that doing a few gestures isn't harder than pressing buttons. Oh noes I have to move my wrist instead of pressing R, what has the world come to...

Why wouldn't Natal exist? Don't be a commie, embrace diversity:P

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wolverine4262

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#152 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="SW_modified"]

Why the hell would you use both? :|

rotaredom

HEAD TRACKING. How about actual 3d images on your screen

Check Johnny Chung's vid there is a reason why he was hired to work on NATAL

And who knows maybe there will be something completely different.

Your reaching. Head tracking was never announced for Natal.

As it is natal can already do it! I already freaking said that...You say we are reaching? SERIOUSLY?!
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meetroid8

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#153 meetroid8
Member since 2005 • 21152 Posts
[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"][QUOTE="Baranga"]

You still have to press a button for the car to accelerate and steer. For Natal, this translates to moving your foot forward/backwards and steering. For a shooter, you move only with your foot - forward, backward, left, right - and let the arms, body and head do the rest.

I can actually imagine a simple control scheme on the spot - lower your body a bit to crouch, head to look around, a quick forward palm gesture for shooting (and stop shooting only when you bring the palm in the previous position), rotate the wrist to reload, move the arm towards the face for iron sights, use the other hand to swap weapons/flashlight/inventory items. And maybe the other foot for sprinting. All while sitting. You can even rest your elbows and upper arms, since everything except iron sights is done using the forearm.

Holy **** someone should hire me.

So you'd like turn Halo into some sort of crap waggle fest. Thats the reason most Wii games are terrible you know.

The Conduit may be crap, but it has flawless controls. So does Metroid. And the other good games.

You disregard "waggle fest" just as people disregarded the Wiimote, simply because it involves a bit more movement than just pressing buttons. If you think learning to move your freakin' forearm is hard, you've got a problem.

The Conduit and MP3 aren't waggle fests, they require very little motion and instead focuse on the real innovation of the Wii mote which is the IR pointer, and metroid at least is a great game. Motion controls aren't what made MP3 great.
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rotaredom

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#154 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

The Conduit may be crap, but it has flawless controls. So does Metroid. And the other good games.

You disregard "waggle fest" just as people disregarded the Wiimote, simply because it involves a bit more movement than just pressing buttons. If you think learning to move your freakin' forearm is hard, you've got a problem.

Baranga

Except it has buttons and a controller. What will natal become. Just a video camera where you are holding a controller with. Then why does natal even need to exist?

Except that doing a few gestures isn't harder than pressing buttons. Oh noes I have to move my wrist instead of pressing R, what has the world come to...

Why wouldn't Natal exist? Don't be a commie, embrace diversity:P

Move forward : Blink twice

Move back: Lean Backwards

Turn Left: Do the Hokey Pokey

Turn Right: Cuz that's what it's all about

Halo: sign language evolved.

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Baranga

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#155 Baranga
Member since 2005 • 14217 Posts

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="nhh18"]Except it has buttons and a controller. What will natal become. Just a video camera where you are holding a controller with. Then why does natal even need to exist?

rotaredom

Except that doing a few gestures isn't harder than pressing buttons. Oh noes I have to move my wrist instead of pressing R, what has the world come to...

Why wouldn't Natal exist? Don't be a commie, embrace diversity:P

Move forward : Blink twice

Move back: Lean Backwards

Turn Left: Do the Hokey Pokey

Turn Right: Cuz that's what it's all about

Halo: sign language evolved.

Now you're just acting stupid:)

Yay, 5000 posts!

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rotaredom

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#156 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

HEAD TRACKING. How about actual 3d images on your screen

Check Johnny Chung's vid there is a reason why he was hired to work on NATAL

And who knows maybe there will be something completely different.

wolverine4262

Your reaching. Head tracking was never announced for Natal.

As it is natal can already do it! I already freaking said that...You say we are reaching? SERIOUSLY?!

So can the Wiimote and PS3 wand. Big deal. It doesnt mean they will use headtracking just because they can.

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mythrol

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#157 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts

Here's a comment I had when natal was announced about what control possibilities are possible with what we know about natal right now. I think it's a good spitball for how controls could work:

I'd love a Myst type game. Where you could actually reach in and grab objects and pick them up. I think Myst would actually be perfect for Natal because of it's original point and click / drag and drop nature.

What would be the coolest would be a FPS where you hold your hand like you're carrying a gun. move your finger like you're pulling the trigger to fire. Melee would be you kicking (ofcourse not high). Reload would be you acting as if you're putting a new clip in the gun. I think I even have movement worked out as well. Have a standard position that you start the game in, take a step forward and your character starts moving forward. Strife right to move right. Strife left to move left. Back up by taking a step back. To move your camera you move your "gun" as if you're turning and the camera follows the gun. Grenades would be you acting like you're pulling the pin out and throwing it.

Honestly though I think project natal would be best suited for hybrid games. For example you have a FPS that actuallys comes with a gun that you hold in your hand. The gun also has a stick that controls only the camera. Project Natal still controls all the other actions. Grenades / strifing / movement / melee / reloading. I think that's the biggest problem with people who see it can't wrap their head around. They think if you put a gun in your hand that Project Natal = Wiimote. This however is completely false. Project Natal can map your entire movements in 3d space. Current RPG's would work fine for Project Natal. They normally give you a top down or high angled view anyway.

I could see current RPG's working simply the same way as the DS controlled Link. Move your hand to show which direction the character should move. Once combat starts you can use voice commands to tell them what to do / hand commands like scrolling through the actions and selecting one / or full body commands to attack or cast spells. Need a potion? Act like you're drinking one. Need to be healed? Hollar out "Heal Me, (insert character's name)!" Boss fights could be really cool because they could require you actually "reach" into the environment to give your party the upperhand. Let's say you're fighting a boss and there are powerlines above you. You could actually move your hand forward, reach into the screen and pull the powerlines down hitting the boss and doing massive damage. Oh and who could forget. . .Want to open a treasure chest? Kick it open with your foot.

Heck, even games that require cover could be done. Want to stick to a wall or behind some crates? Turn your body sideways (granted not perfect for viewing angle but still very possible). And I just came up with these ideas sitting here over the past few minutes typing this up.

And I honestly think most of them are quiet possible. They won't require small precise movements so I think they'd be pretty accurate in registering your commands. And especially when merged in a hybrid type system.

What if some mystery games required you to help out the character by "scanning in" household items that you have laying around to help him progress his story. For instances, you're stuck in some old mansion and you know your back up is coming but you've got to get out of there now. So the character in game asks you "Hey, do you have a piece of paper so I can leave a message for them?" You say "Sure." and grab some paper, scan it using the camera and he then takes it and leaves his message.

Or, he says "I really need a phone to make a call." And you "hand" him your phone using the camera. The scanner really does make a lot of things possible and yeah, I don't see why you couldn't scan in one of those Wii wheels or a tennis racket or really anything to use in game.mythrol

Ok. Here you go. Read, enjoy, comment on the possibilities.

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wolverine4262

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#159 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="rotaredom"]Your reaching. Head tracking was never announced for Natal.

rotaredom

As it is natal can already do it! I already freaking said that...You say we are reaching? SERIOUSLY?!

So can the Wiimote and PS3 wand. Big deal. It doesnt mean they will use headtracking just because they can.

that is not technically true... the wii-mote was done on the PC only using the wii-mote hardware and some heavy modding. From what i know the PS wand cant at all as the camera will be spending the whole time following the wand itself...do you even know how the technology works?
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Baranga

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#160 Baranga
Member since 2005 • 14217 Posts

[QUOTE="mythrol"]

Here's a comment I had when natal was announced about what control possibilities are possible with what we know about natal right now. I think it's a good spitball for how controls could work:

I'd love a Myst type game. Where you could actually reach in and grab objects and pick them up. I think Myst would actually be perfect for Natal because of it's original point and click / drag and drop nature.

What would be the coolest would be a FPS where you hold your hand like you're carrying a gun. move your finger like you're pulling the trigger to fire. Melee would be you kicking (ofcourse not high). Reload would be you acting as if you're putting a new clip in the gun. I think I even have movement worked out as well. Have a standard position that you start the game in, take a step forward and your character starts moving forward. Strife right to move right. Strife left to move left. Back up by taking a step back. To move your camera you move your "gun" as if you're turning and the camera follows the gun. Grenades would be you acting like you're pulling the pin out and throwing it.

Honestly though I think project natal would be best suited for hybrid games. For example you have a FPS that actuallys comes with a gun that you hold in your hand. The gun also has a stick that controls only the camera. Project Natal still controls all the other actions. Grenades / strifing / movement / melee / reloading. I think that's the biggest problem with people who see it can't wrap their head around. They think if you put a gun in your hand that Project Natal = Wiimote. This however is completely false. Project Natal can map your entire movements in 3d space. Current RPG's would work fine for Project Natal. They normally give you a top down or high angled view anyway.

I could see current RPG's working simply the same way as the DS controlled Link. Move your hand to show which direction the character should move. Once combat starts you can use voice commands to tell them what to do / hand commands like scrolling through the actions and selecting one / or full body commands to attack or cast spells. Need a potion? Act like you're drinking one. Need to be healed? Hollar out "Heal Me, (insert character's name)!" Boss fights could be really cool because they could require you actually "reach" into the environment to give your party the upperhand. Let's say you're fighting a boss and there are powerlines above you. You could actually move your hand forward, reach into the screen and pull the powerlines down hitting the boss and doing massive damage. Oh and who could forget. . .Want to open a treasure chest? Kick it open with your foot.

Heck, even games that require cover could be done. Want to stick to a wall or behind some crates? Turn your body sideways (granted not perfect for viewing angle but still very possible). And I just came up with these ideas sitting here over the past few minutes typing this up.

And I honestly think most of them are quiet possible. They won't require small precise movements so I think they'd be pretty accurate in registering your commands. And especially when merged in a hybrid type system.

What if some mystery games required you to help out the character by "scanning in" household items that you have laying around to help him progress his story. For instances, you're stuck in some old mansion and you know your back up is coming but you've got to get out of there now. So the character in game asks you "Hey, do you have a piece of paper so I can leave a message for them?" You say "Sure." and grab some paper, scan it using the camera and he then takes it and leaves his message.

Or, he says "I really need a phone to make a call." And you "hand" him your phone using the camera. The scanner really does make a lot of things possible and yeah, I don't see why you couldn't scan in one of those Wii wheels or a tennis racket or really anything to use in game.mythrol

Ok. Here you go. Read, enjoy, comment on the possibilities.

Using the finger to shoot is the only problem, it's tiresome. A palm gesture would be better.

Other than that, I'm sure that's exactly what devs are brainstorming.

They also have to design a control scheme to be used while sitting.

Anyway, this thread is a trollercoaster.

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Norule04

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#161 Norule04
Member since 2004 • 8985 Posts

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]Your reaching. Head tracking was never announced for Natal.

rotaredom

Seriously WHY ELSE WOULD THEY HIRE THE GUY. He said it himself he became known because of his youtube vids he even wanted some developers to use this tech for games.

Hiring some guy is no evidence whatsoever. All of the console manufacturers hire people who specialize in different forms of technology to give them a competitive edge. It certainly doesnt mean they will implement it. They just leave their options open.

FYI, From what I have seen of headtracking, I see no way how it would add anything significant to the Natal experience or solve the problems it has.



Look I know you can use a little common sense. Speculating is one thing, but you have to admit the possibility of headtracking being a NATAL feature is HIGHLY likely. And even if it didn't at launch it will at some point. And if you don't think having an actual 3d experience while playing fps games (which are so keen on being IMMERSIVE) is a significant experience, tell that to the movie companies investing billion of dollars in to real3D (which does't even compare to this). Imagine talking to NPC's which actually look you in the eye during conversation and follow your movements....that's immersion right there.

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rotaredom

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#162 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"] As it is natal can already do it! I already freaking said that...You say we are reaching? SERIOUSLY?!wolverine4262

So can the Wiimote and PS3 wand. Big deal. It doesnt mean they will use headtracking just because they can.

that is not technically true... the wii-mote was done on the PC only using the wii-mote hardware and some heavy modding. From what i know the PS wand cant at all as the camera will be spending the whole time following the wand itself...do you even know how the technology works?

Do you? All infared pointers are capable of head tracking. Do your research.

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rotaredom

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#163 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

Seriously WHY ELSE WOULD THEY HIRE THE GUY. He said it himself he became known because of his youtube vids he even wanted some developers to use this tech for games.

Norule04

Hiring some guy is no evidence whatsoever. All of the console manufacturers hire people who specialize in different forms of technology to give them a competitive edge. It certainly doesnt mean they will implement it. They just leave their options open.

FYI, From what I have seen of headtracking, I see no way how it would add anything significant to the Natal experience or solve the problems it has.



Look I know you can use a little common sense. Speculating is one thing, but you have to admit the possibility of headtracking being a NATAL feature is HIGHLY likely. And even if it didn't at launch it will at some point. And if you don't think having an actual 3d experience while playing fps games (which are so keen on being IMMERSIVE) is a significant experience, tell that to the movie companies investing billion of dollars in to real3D (which does't even compare to this). Imagine talking to NPC's which actually look you in the eye during conversation and follow your movements....that's immersion right there.

It's just as possible with PS3's wand or the Wiimote and it would actually work better for those platforms because they have 3d imput devices to go along with it.

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wolverine4262

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#164 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="rotaredom"]So can the Wiimote and PS3 wand. Big deal. It doesnt mean they will use headtracking just because they can.

rotaredom

that is not technically true... the wii-mote was done on the PC only using the wii-mote hardware and some heavy modding. From what i know the PS wand cant at all as the camera will be spending the whole time following the wand itself...do you even know how the technology works?

Do you? All infared pointers are capable of head tracking. Do your research.

I know that, but it doesnt change the fact that it would require modding. that is unless you wanna attach the wiis sensor bar to yur head. ALSO, the ps wand doesnt use ir tracking... the effect is essentially the same though...already gave my reasoning for the wands lack of use...
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wolverine4262

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#165 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]Hiring some guy is no evidence whatsoever. All of the console manufacturers hire people who specialize in different forms of technology to give them a competitive edge. It certainly doesnt mean they will implement it. They just leave their options open.

FYI, From what I have seen of headtracking, I see no way how it would add anything significant to the Natal experience or solve the problems it has.

rotaredom



Look I know you can use a little common sense. Speculating is one thing, but you have to admit the possibility of headtracking being a NATAL feature is HIGHLY likely. And even if it didn't at launch it will at some point. And if you don't think having an actual 3d experience while playing fps games (which are so keen on being IMMERSIVE) is a significant experience, tell that to the movie companies investing billion of dollars in to real3D (which does't even compare to this). Imagine talking to NPC's which actually look you in the eye during conversation and follow your movements....that's immersion right there.

It's just as possible with PS3's wand or the Wiimote and it would actually work better for those platforms because they have 3d imput devices to go along with it.

You are wrong on so many levels that its not even funny...

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Norule04

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#166 Norule04
Member since 2004 • 8985 Posts

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]Hiring some guy is no evidence whatsoever. All of the console manufacturers hire people who specialize in different forms of technology to give them a competitive edge. It certainly doesnt mean they will implement it. They just leave their options open.

FYI, From what I have seen of headtracking, I see no way how it would add anything significant to the Natal experience or solve the problems it has.

rotaredom



Look I know you can use a little common sense. Speculating is one thing, but you have to admit the possibility of headtracking being a NATAL feature is HIGHLY likely. And even if it didn't at launch it will at some point. And if you don't think having an actual 3d experience while playing fps games (which are so keen on being IMMERSIVE) is a significant experience, tell that to the movie companies investing billion of dollars in to real3D (which does't even compare to this). Imagine talking to NPC's which actually look you in the eye during conversation and follow your movements....that's immersion right there.

It's just as possible with PS3's wand or the Wiimote and it would actually work better for those platforms because they have 3d imput devices to go along with it.

wow and your body isn't an input device? Natal can measure depth and considers YOU the 3d input device.

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rotaredom

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#167 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"] that is not technically true... the wii-mote was done on the PC only using the wii-mote hardware and some heavy modding. From what i know the PS wand cant at all as the camera will be spending the whole time following the wand itself...do you even know how the technology works?wolverine4262

Do you? All infared pointers are capable of head tracking. Do your research.

I know that, but it doesnt change the fact that it would require modding. that is unless you wanna attach the wiis sensor bar to yur head. ALSO, the ps wand doesnt use ir tracking... the effect is essentially the same though...already gave my reasoning for the wands lack of use...

It's possible on all three consoles... you need to accept that and stop using head tracking as a means to justify Natal's existence. Partially because it would work better with a 3D imput device like the PS3 wand or the Wiimote, and partially because it hasnt been announced for any of the consoles.

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rotaredom

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#168 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

Look I know you can use a little common sense. Speculating is one thing, but you have to admit the possibility of headtracking being a NATAL feature is HIGHLY likely. And even if it didn't at launch it will at some point. And if you don't think having an actual 3d experience while playing fps games (which are so keen on being IMMERSIVE) is a significant experience, tell that to the movie companies investing billion of dollars in to real3D (which does't even compare to this). Imagine talking to NPC's which actually look you in the eye during conversation and follow your movements....that's immersion right there.

Norule04

It's just as possible with PS3's wand or the Wiimote and it would actually work better for those platforms because they have 3d imput devices to go along with it.

wow and your body isn't an input device? Natal can measure depth and considers YOU the 3d input device.

The controller works as a point of reference and has actual feedback in terms of rumble, not to mention anaolog sticks to give it use for actual gaming.

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wolverine4262

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#169 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

It's possible on all three consoles... you need to accept that and stop using head tracking as a means to justify Natal's existence. Partially because it would work better with a 3D imput device like the PS3 wand or the Wiimote, and partially because it hasnt been announced for any of the consoles.

rotaredom

okay, are you just messing with me? Seriously? No one can be so dense... Tell me how the wii and the wand are going to do head tracking and Ill tell you how it wont work...

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Norule04

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#170 Norule04
Member since 2004 • 8985 Posts

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="rotaredom"]Do you? All infared pointers are capable of head tracking. Do your research.

rotaredom

I know that, but it doesnt change the fact that it would require modding. that is unless you wanna attach the wiis sensor bar to yur head. ALSO, the ps wand doesnt use ir tracking... the effect is essentially the same though...already gave my reasoning for the wands lack of use...

It's possible on all three consoles... you need to accept that and stop using head tracking as a means to justify Natal's existence. Partially because it would work better with a 3D imput device like the PS3 wand or the Wiimote, and partially because it hasnt been announced for any of the consoles.

Doesn't change the fact that head tracking is a possible NATAL functionality in actual gaming and thus making your thread title argument obsolete

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AmayaPapaya

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#171 AmayaPapaya
Member since 2008 • 9029 Posts

If Miyamoto says it wont work as well as the other controllers...I'm going to believe him. He is better than any other developer at Microsoft.

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rotaredom

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#172 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]It's possible on all three consoles... you need to accept that and stop using head tracking as a means to justify Natal's existence. Partially because it would work better with a 3D imput device like the PS3 wand or the Wiimote, and partially because it hasnt been announced for any of the consoles.

wolverine4262

okay, are you just messing with me? Seriously? No one can be so dense... Tell me how the wii and the wand are going to do head tracking and Ill tell you how it wont work...

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2007/12/wii-remote-head-tracking-reveals-untapped-potential-of-remote.ars

Of course it will work.

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nhh18

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#173 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

If Miyamoto says it wont work as well as the other controllers...I'm going to believe him. He is better than any other developer at Microsoft.

AmayaPapaya

He also works for a competing copmany.

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rotaredom

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#174 rotaredom
Member since 2009 • 202 Posts

[QUOTE="AmayaPapaya"]

If Miyamoto says it wont work as well as the other controllers...I'm going to believe him. He is better than any other developer at Microsoft.

nhh18

He also works for a competing copmany.

Miyamoto has a long history of lying :roll:

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Head_of_games

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#175 Head_of_games
Member since 2007 • 10859 Posts
We'll just have to see how well it works in combination with a control. But I agree that by itself it just isn't that great.
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wolverine4262

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#176 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]It's possible on all three consoles... you need to accept that and stop using head tracking as a means to justify Natal's existence. Partially because it would work better with a 3D imput device like the PS3 wand or the Wiimote, and partially because it hasnt been announced for any of the consoles.

rotaredom

okay, are you just messing with me? Seriously? No one can be so dense... Tell me how the wii and the wand are going to do head tracking and Ill tell you how it wont work...

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2007/12/wii-remote-head-tracking-reveals-untapped-potential-of-remote.ars

Of course it will work.

THis has already been cited NUMEROUS times by me and others, but do you know how it works? Its actual applications arent worth it on the wii...BTW, the self ownage here is measurable. the guy that did that is working on natal... HERE since you are dense: THe wii-remote acts as a camera right? Therefore, you would need to place that in front of the tv at a good angle. ALSO you would need to attach the sensor bar to yur head. See where I am going with this? You cant even hold the wii-mote to do that...
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meetroid8

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#177 meetroid8
Member since 2005 • 21152 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

Look I know you can use a little common sense. Speculating is one thing, but you have to admit the possibility of headtracking being a NATAL feature is HIGHLY likely. And even if it didn't at launch it will at some point. And if you don't think having an actual 3d experience while playing fps games (which are so keen on being IMMERSIVE) is a significant experience, tell that to the movie companies investing billion of dollars in to real3D (which does't even compare to this). Imagine talking to NPC's which actually look you in the eye during conversation and follow your movements....that's immersion right there.

Norule04

It's just as possible with PS3's wand or the Wiimote and it would actually work better for those platforms because they have 3d imput devices to go along with it.

wow and your body isn't an input device? Natal can measure depth and considers YOU the 3d input device.

The point is me being the input device won't be very much fun and will only lead to craptastic software. It would all work much better with a controller.

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AmayaPapaya

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#178 AmayaPapaya
Member since 2008 • 9029 Posts

[QUOTE="AmayaPapaya"]

If Miyamoto says it wont work as well as the other controllers...I'm going to believe him. He is better than any other developer at Microsoft.

nhh18

He also works for a competing copmany.

Your forgeting something...He is not competitive. I think he said Sonys Wand was interesting, so that proves you wrong. He has even complained about Nintendo. He was the one who said basically Donkey Kong Country was Over Rated when it was all the rage by everyone including other Nintendo workers!Then i went on a website and DKC was voted as one of the most Overrated games of all time. So basicallyMiyamoto>everyone else.It was good, just over rated. Miyamoto=humble and unbaised...Nintendo itself= not so humble (Braging about the Wii all the time).

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kkevguy47k

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#179 kkevguy47k
Member since 2008 • 900 Posts

Burnout seemd to work fine with it ...

-Snooze-
So tell me how do you push down the gas and brake at the same time to drift? Oh yeah, you can't. Good thing i have a PS3, I can use the motion controls that were built into BP on PS3 from day one and work way better. Steering and all, from what i've seen.
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Norule04

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#180 Norule04
Member since 2004 • 8985 Posts

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]It's just as possible with PS3's wand or the Wiimote and it would actually work better for those platforms because they have 3d imput devices to go along with it.

meetroid8

wow and your body isn't an input device? Natal can measure depth and considers YOU the 3d input device.

The point is me being the input device won't be very much fun and will only lead to craptastic software. It would all work much better with a controller.

Okay then consider only your hand to be the input device, wether you hold a wand it in it or use your hand itself as an input device it doesn't really matter.

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AmayaPapaya

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#181 AmayaPapaya
Member since 2008 • 9029 Posts

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

[QUOTE="AmayaPapaya"]

If Miyamoto says it wont work as well as the other controllers...I'm going to believe him. He is better than any other developer at Microsoft.

rotaredom

He also works for a competing copmany.

Miyamoto has a long history of lying :roll:

? Ive never heard of him lying? Give me an example. And if it's something like Zelda being Delayed a billion times don't bother posting!

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wolverine4262

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#182 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts
The fact is that natal is capable of doing what both the wii-mote and the wand can and then some. About the argument going on with miyamoto: Why are you taking his word for it? This guy has nothing to do with it. Its not like he saw anything that we didnt see or has any idea on what ms is doing with it....Id rather look at the numerous journalists that got hands on time. You do realize miyamoto dont like games like GTA either.... BTW, DKC was awesome. He was just jealous he didnt get to make it...
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brennan7777

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#183 brennan7777
Member since 2005 • 3253 Posts

why are we arguing this? Natal and the wand are both going to suck like the wii motion controls do.

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wolverine4262

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#184 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

why are we arguing this? Natal and the wand are both going to suck like the wii motion controls do.

brennan7777
its in the hands of the developers....i guess it also depends on how seriously ms and sony take the controllers...
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nhh18

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#185 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

The fact is that natal is capable of doing what both the wii-mote and the wand can and then some. About the argument going on with miyamoto: Why are you taking his word for it? This guy has nothing to do with it. Its not like he saw anything that we didnt see or has any idea on what ms is doing with it....Id rather look at the numerous journalists that got hands on time. You do realize miyamoto dont like games like GTA either.... BTW, DKC was awesome. He was just jealous he didnt get to make it...wolverine4262
What is it capable of doing moire than the ps3 wadn and wii-mote. 1:1 motion with arm motion is hard to improve. Which is hard to do without objects like the sony wand, or wii motion plus. If anything it is significantly worse than its competitors because it isn't 1:1 motion.

----

wow do I need to slow down typing.

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AmayaPapaya

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#186 AmayaPapaya
Member since 2008 • 9029 Posts

The fact is that natal is capable of doing what both the wii-mote and the wand can and then some. About the argument going on with miyamoto: Why are you taking his word for it? This guy has nothing to do with it. Its not like he saw anything that we didnt see or has any idea on what ms is doing with it....Id rather look at the numerous journalists that got hands on time. You do realize miyamoto dont like games like GTA either.... BTW, DKC was awesome. He was just jealous he didnt get to make it...wolverine4262

I have never heard him say that he doesn't like it. Although I'm Pretty sure he doesn't, he thinks more logically (while GTA is mindlessly killing people and steeling cars)which is what you need when talking about Natal? Someone told someone what they said was invalid (or something) because they weren't a developer. Miyamoto is so I brought His Opinion in. He has nothing to with it sure, but he has been dealing with motion control and gaming longer than most anyone so i think he has a good opinion. He didn't say it was bad...he said something like, the experience won't be as good as you can get when you hold something in your hand. Which is Probably True. He didn't seem jealous with DKC...he seemed mad! Why do you think he didn't make Mario world 2s graphics like that when Nintendo wanted him too? Why do you think he won't make a Donkey Kong game? I'm pretty sure Miyamoto hates what Rare did with Donkey Kong.

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nhh18

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#187 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

Would you honestly trust a 6 minute video preview of this information (which is bascially what people have been given) of a burnout demo using your hands and feet. They gave you all the information the journalist received. Too bad microsoft hasn't given more inforrmation like whether or not it is possible to have 2-4 players among other stuff.

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mythrol

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#188 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
Dude, why are all the cows avoiding my posts about the control possibilities of project natal? All that's happening in this thread is people are trying to argue about how worthless natal is, and yet when I gave clear examples of how it COULD work in real life games . . . my post is completely passed over. Stop trolling or actually have a look at my points and THINK for yourself, instead of what the giant company machine feeds you.
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wolverine4262

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#189 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"]The fact is that natal is capable of doing what both the wii-mote and the wand can and then some. About the argument going on with miyamoto: Why are you taking his word for it? This guy has nothing to do with it. Its not like he saw anything that we didnt see or has any idea on what ms is doing with it....Id rather look at the numerous journalists that got hands on time. You do realize miyamoto dont like games like GTA either.... BTW, DKC was awesome. He was just jealous he didnt get to make it...AmayaPapaya

I have never heard him say that he doesn't like it. Although I'm Pretty sure he doesn't, he thinks more logically (while GTA is mindlessly killing people and steeling cars)which is what you need when talking about Natal? Someone told someone what they said was invalid (or something) because they weren't a developer. Miyamoto is so I brought His Opinion in. He has nothing to with it sure, but he has been dealing with motion control and gaming longer than most anyone so i think he has a good opinion. He didn't say it was bad...he said something like, the experience won't be as good as you can get when you hold something in your hand. Which is Probably True. He didn't seem jealous with DKC...he seemed mad! Why do you think he didn't make Mario world 2s graphics like that when Nintendo wanted him too? Why do you think he won't make a Donkey Kong game? I'm pretty sure Miyamoto hates what Rare did with Donkey Kong.

oh, thats what he said? i agree depending on the genre....the thing is natal doesnt exclude existing controllers...
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pyromaniac223

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#190 pyromaniac223
Member since 2008 • 5896 Posts
More sweeping generalizations weeeeeee
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epyonx3

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#191 epyonx3
Member since 2009 • 79 Posts

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

That's different. You're in a car and the car is moving for you. the driver doesn't get out and walk. Here's a better question. How would you play a game like Halo or Alan Wake or even splinter cell with Natal?

rotaredom

I can actually imagine a simple control scheme on the spot - lower your body a bit to crouch, head to look around, a quick forward palm gesture for shooting (and stop shooting only when you bring the palm in the previous position), rotate the wrist to reload, move the arm towards the face for iron sights, use the other hand to swap weapons/flashlight/inventory items. And maybe the other foot for sprinting. All while sitting. You can even rest your elbows and upper arms, since everything except iron sights is done using the forearm.

Holy **** someone should hire me.

That sounds absolutely ridiculous.

Thank you!!
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AmayaPapaya

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#192 AmayaPapaya
Member since 2008 • 9029 Posts

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

I can actually imagine a simple control scheme on the spot - lower your body a bit to crouch, head to look around, a quick forward palm gesture for shooting (and stop shooting only when you bring the palm in the previous position), rotate the wrist to reload, move the arm towards the face for iron sights, use the other hand to swap weapons/flashlight/inventory items. And maybe the other foot for sprinting. All while sitting. You can even rest your elbows and upper arms, since everything except iron sights is done using the forearm.

Holy **** someone should hire me.

epyonx3

That sounds absolutely ridiculous.

Thank you!!

That is...You just completley shattered all the Lemmings arguements of the Wiis "waggle" and "arms moving weirdly", and "making you look rediculous"

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Wii_Gamer_277

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#193 Wii_Gamer_277
Member since 2009 • 1795 Posts

Controller-less gaming = Fail IMO.

Plus Hardcores and Casuals aren't going to flock to buy this overpriced Add-on.

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wolverine4262

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#194 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

That is...You just completley shattered all the Lemmings arguements of the Wiis "waggle" and "arms moving weirdly", and "making you look rediculous"

AmayaPapaya

I dont know about others but i never said anything like that...I have a wii... I dont like nintys implementation of it, but i have one. Also, the guy outta be given some credit. He isnt a game developer. Think of what a team of 20 or 30 trained talents could do with months or years.... BTW, the cows are the ones that should be facing this, considered the wand is almost identical to the wii-mote...

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wolverine4262

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#195 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts
Controllerless gaming = Fail IMO. Plus Hardcores and Casuals arent going to flock to by this overpriced Add-on.Wii_Gamer_277
overpriced? it was never priced at all... it dont even have a proper name yet...
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Wii_Gamer_277

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#196 Wii_Gamer_277
Member since 2009 • 1795 Posts
[QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"]Controllerless gaming = Fail IMO. Plus Hardcores and Casuals arent going to flock to by this overpriced Add-on.wolverine4262
overpriced? it was never priced at all... it dont even have a proper name yet...

You think MS isn't going to charge and arm & leg for this thing ? They charge 100 bucks for a 20Gb HDD, and another 100$ for a wifi router MS this gen loves to overprice there add ons and NATAL will be no different...I cant see it costing any less then 150$ honestly.
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wolverine4262

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#197 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts
[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"]Controllerless gaming = Fail IMO. Plus Hardcores and Casuals arent going to flock to by this overpriced Add-on.Wii_Gamer_277
overpriced? it was never priced at all... it dont even have a proper name yet...

You think MS isn't going to charge and arm & leg for this thing ? They charge 100 bucks for a 20Gb HDD, and another 100$ for a wifi router MS this gen loves to overprice there add ons and NATAL will be no different...I cant see it costing any less then 150$ honestly.

I think ms wants this to succeed...for all we know they could sell the thing at a lose, or in a bundle. They already said they are treating this as a proper hardware launch. Calling it overpriced while its technically still in R&D is extremely premature. BTW that stuff is overpriced...except a 20 gb HDD can be had for $20....
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DarknessLion

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#198 DarknessLion
Member since 2008 • 2305 Posts
Lawl the sony wand is much better guyz!!!! tehee. No.
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#199 Panther501
Member since 2007 • 1990 Posts

Here's a comment I had when natal was announced about what control possibilities are possible with what we know about natal right now. I think it's a good spitball for how controls could work:

I'd love a Myst type game. Where you could actually reach in and grab objects and pick them up. I think Myst would actually be perfect for Natal because of it's original point and click / drag and drop nature.

What would be the coolest would be a FPS where you hold your hand like you're carrying a gun. move your finger like you're pulling the trigger to fire. Melee would be you kicking (ofcourse not high). Reload would be you acting as if you're putting a new clip in the gun. I think I even have movement worked out as well. Have a standard position that you start the game in, take a step forward and your character starts moving forward. Strife right to move right. Strife left to move left. Back up by taking a step back. To move your camera you move your "gun" as if you're turning and the camera follows the gun. Grenades would be you acting like you're pulling the pin out and throwing it.

Honestly though I think project natal would be best suited for hybrid games. For example you have a FPS that actuallys comes with a gun that you hold in your hand. The gun also has a stick that controls only the camera. Project Natal still controls all the other actions. Grenades / strifing / movement / melee / reloading. I think that's the biggest problem with people who see it can't wrap their head around. They think if you put a gun in your hand that Project Natal = Wiimote. This however is completely false. Project Natal can map your entire movements in 3d space. Current RPG's would work fine for Project Natal. They normally give you a top down or high angled view anyway.

I could see current RPG's working simply the same way as the DS controlled Link. Move your hand to show which direction the character should move. Once combat starts you can use voice commands to tell them what to do / hand commands like scrolling through the actions and selecting one / or full body commands to attack or cast spells. Need a potion? Act like you're drinking one. Need to be healed? Hollar out "Heal Me, (insert character's name)!" Boss fights could be really cool because they could require you actually "reach" into the environment to give your party the upperhand. Let's say you're fighting a boss and there are powerlines above you. You could actually move your hand forward, reach into the screen and pull the powerlines down hitting the boss and doing massive damage. Oh and who could forget. . .Want to open a treasure chest? Kick it open with your foot.

Heck, even games that require cover could be done. Want to stick to a wall or behind some crates? Turn your body sideways (granted not perfect for viewing angle but still very possible). And I just came up with these ideas sitting here over the past few minutes typing this up.

And I honestly think most of them are quiet possible. They won't require small precise movements so I think they'd be pretty accurate in registering your commands. And especially when merged in a hybrid type system.

What if some mystery games required you to help out the character by "scanning in" household items that you have laying around to help him progress his story. For instances, you're stuck in some old mansion and you know your back up is coming but you've got to get out of there now. So the character in game asks you "Hey, do you have a piece of paper so I can leave a message for them?" You say "Sure." and grab some paper, scan it using the camera and he then takes it and leaves his message.

Or, he says "I really need a phone to make a call." And you "hand" him your phone using the camera. The scanner really does make a lot of things possible and yeah, I don't see why you couldn't scan in one of those Wii wheels or a tennis racket or really anything to use in game.

mythrol

I don't think Natal is capable of precise finger movements like you said. Sure you could kick and throw grenades, but in terms of precision movements (finger twitching for pulling the trigger, etc.) its not going to work at all. Natal isn't going to work for any game that requires precision movements. It will work alright for racing (although the natal demo on jimmy fallon was horrible, they kept crashing).

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#200 Wii_Gamer_277
Member since 2009 • 1795 Posts
[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"][QUOTE="wolverine4262"] overpriced? it was never priced at all... it dont even have a proper name yet...

You think MS isn't going to charge and arm & leg for this thing ? They charge 100 bucks for a 20Gb HDD, and another 100$ for a wifi router MS this gen loves to overprice there add ons and NATAL will be no different...I cant see it costing any less then 150$ honestly.

I think ms wants this to succeed...for all we know they could sell the thing at a lose, or in a bundle. They already said they are treating this as a proper hardware launch. Calling it overpriced while its technically still in R&D is extremely premature. BTW that stuff is overpriced...except a 20 gb HDD can be had for $20....

You can get a 20GB HDD from deals im talking about the MS price point of the HDD. And if MS wants this to succed they should of waited a generation to add it to the console, not tack it on like they are doing with NATAL and probably charging an a lot for it.