Natal has zero funtionality in actual gaming, lets stop pretending it will

The only games this would work for are fighting and sports games. And no one would use it for sports games because chances are that if you play madden all the time you're a fatass who can't play real football. Imagine trying to play an FPS or RPG using NATAL.

shakmaster13

I think it would be great in a FPS...

Think of it, get some gun like controller with a single analog stick on it where your thumb could rest. That would move your character while you are actually your character. If you crouch, the character crouches in a 1:1 motion with you, same with leaning, aiming, and peaking around corners.

That would be epic, and if it was a good FPS it would probably be worth buying.

I think it would be great in a FPS...

Think of it, get some gun like controller with a single analog stick on it where your thumb could rest. That would move your character while you are actually your character. If you crouch, the character crouches in a 1:1 motion with you, same with leaning, aiming, and peaking around corners.

That would be epic, and if it was a good FPS it would probably be worth buying.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

The only games this would work for are fighting and sports games. And no one would use it for sports games because chances are that if you play madden all the time you're a fatass who can't play real football. Imagine trying to play an FPS or RPG using NATAL.

SpruceCaboose

But according to lems the whole point of NATAL was to go full motion control.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I think it would be great in a FPS...

Think of it, get some gun like controller with a single analog stick on it where your thumb could rest. That would move your character while you are actually your character. If you crouch, the character crouches in a 1:1 motion with you, same with leaning, aiming, and peaking around corners.

That would be epic, and if it was a good FPS it would probably be worth buying.

Wii_Gamer_277

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

The only games this would work for are fighting and sports games. And no one would use it for sports games because chances are that if you play madden all the time you're a fatass who can't play real football. Imagine trying to play an FPS or RPG using NATAL.

shakmaster13

But according to lems the whole point of NATAL was to go full motion control.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I think it would be great in a FPS...

Think of it, get some gun like controller with a single analog stick on it where your thumb could rest. That would move your character while you are actually your character. If you crouch, the character crouches in a 1:1 motion with you, same with leaning, aiming, and peaking around corners.

That would be epic, and if it was a good FPS it would probably be worth buying.

Wii_Gamer_277

[QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I think it would be great in a FPS...

Think of it, get some gun like controller with a single analog stick on it where your thumb could rest. That would move your character while you are actually your character. If you crouch, the character crouches in a 1:1 motion with you, same with leaning, aiming, and peaking around corners.

That would be epic, and if it was a good FPS it would probably be worth buying.

Wasdie

Unlike the Wii remote, NATAL isn't a standard mode of control for the 360. If gaming trends has taught me anything over the last 10 years or so, non-standard peripherals will never make it in the core gaming industry. How many people will actually get NATAL together with the standard pack? 1 out of 10 customers. How many devs will find it financially viable to develop games for a control only favoured by 1 out of 10 customers? Maybe 1 out of 20 devs. That is a fail to me.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="nhh18"]Have you played a ps3 game with six axis controller. It is hard to control both the buttons and the waggle at the same time. It becomes more unenjoyable because of it. Warhawk, Motorstorm are nearly unplayable.

nhh18

Just hold, no pushing. The camera recognizes objects.

You could potentially hold anything in your hands.

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

You have to realize that GAMERS had fun playing natal. Yes BRITNEY SPEARS FANS had fun at a britney spears contest. There is an audience for everything and it seems that natal appeals to REAL GAMERS.

Norule04

Ok so with your argument we can say that uncharted 2 could suck because previews are always positive right.

Unlike the Wii remote, NATAL isn't a standard mode of control for the 360. If gaming trends has taught me anything over the last 10 years or so, non-standard peripherals will never make it in the core gaming industry. How many people will actually get NATAL together with the standard pack? 1 out of 10 customers. How many devs will find it financially viable to develop games for a control only favoured by 1 out of 10 customers? Maybe 1 out of 20 devs. That is a fail to me.

jhcho2

What if the next MS console will incorporate it?

What if they'll sell the 360 with Natal included once it's ready?

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

NATAL is a peripheral that will enable you to play a lot of different games and genres. A steering wheel you buy just to play a couple of racing games.

Norule04

Maybe not for existing games, but there will be actual games that are designed specifically for NATAL and they will work.

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]And I am saying I would rather have that steering wheel which works well for some games, than a pointless gimmick that works well for none.

HuusAsking

Maybe not for existing games, but there will be actual games that are designed specifically for NATAL and they will work.

[QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I think it would be great in a FPS...

Think of it, get some gun like controller with a single analog stick on it where your thumb could rest. That would move your character while you are actually your character. If you crouch, the character crouches in a 1:1 motion with you, same with leaning, aiming, and peaking around corners.

That would be epic, and if it was a good FPS it would probably be worth buying.

SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

Unlike the Wii remote, NATAL isn't a standard mode of control for the 360. If gaming trends has taught me anything over the last 10 years or so, non-standard peripherals will never make it in the core gaming industry. How many people will actually get NATAL together with the standard pack? 1 out of 10 customers. How many devs will find it financially viable to develop games for a control only favoured by 1 out of 10 customers? Maybe 1 out of 20 devs. That is a fail to me.

Baranga

What if the next MS console will incorporate it?

What if they'll sell the 360 with Natal included once it's ready?

Then it's success will be relatively better than if released now no doubt. But to succeed Microsoft must almost virtually elimate the conventional controller. It won't work either if MS gave us NATAL in addition to our normal controller. And if so, MS can say bye bye to a vast majority of us who aren't exaclt a fan of playing games by moving parts of our body. That isn't exactly my idea of relaxing after a day's work.

Natal is going the way of Virtual Boy.

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

[QUOTE="AmayaPapaya"]

If Miyamoto says it wont work as well as the other controllers...I'm going to believe him. He is better than any other developer at Microsoft.

AmayaPapaya

Your forgeting something...He is not competitive. I think he said Sonys Wand was interesting, so that proves you wrong. He has even complained about Nintendo. He was the one who said basically Donkey Kong Country was Over Rated when it was all the rage by everyone including other Nintendo workers!Then i went on a website and DKC was voted as one of the most Overrated games of all time. So basicallyMiyamoto>everyone else.It was good, just over rated. Miyamoto=humble and unbaised...Nintendo itself= not so humble (Braging about the Wii all the time).

Any genre can work with certain features of Natal; it doesn't always have to be about arm flailing.... This is why you aren't a video game designer and why we actually have video game designers.

spinecaton

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]And I am saying I would rather have that steering wheel which works well for some games, than a pointless gimmick that works well for none.

HuusAsking

Maybe not for existing games, but there will be actual games that are designed specifically for NATAL and they will work.

That will make NATAL a secondary mode of control. (aka. a mode which nobody will give an eff about.)...like the sixaxis. Sixaxis is there for show, with no real or significant contribution, because it's just added for the sake of it - an addition to the primary mode of control.

Because MS at there press conference had a hole section dedicated to "breaking down the barrier" of gaming with controllers. The videos they showed of with the familys you saw No controllers. All the games they have shown show no controllers anywhere to manipulate the game space. Wii_Gamer_277

Unlike the Wii remote, NATAL isn't a standard mode of control for the 360. If gaming trends has taught me anything over the last 10 years or so, non-standard peripherals will never make it in the core gaming industry. How many people will actually get NATAL together with the standard pack? 1 out of 10 customers. How many devs will find it financially viable to develop games for a control only favoured by 1 out of 10 customers? Maybe 1 out of 20 devs. That is a fail to me.

jhcho2

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="Norule04"]

Maybe not for existing games, but there will be actual games that are designed specifically for NATAL and they will work.

SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="Norule04"]

Maybe not for existing games, but there will be actual games that are designed specifically for NATAL and they will work.

jhcho2

That will make NATAL a secondary mode of control. (aka. a mode which nobody will give an eff about.)...like the sixaxis. Sixaxis is there for show, with no real or significant contribution, because it's just added for the sake of it - an addition to the primary mode of control.

It will all come down to what games will be released for it and how well they turn out.

[QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"]Because MS at there press conference had a hole section dedicated to "breaking down the barrier" of gaming with controllers. The videos they showed of with the familys you saw No controllers. All the games they have shown show no controllers anywhere to manipulate the game space. SpruceCaboose

I don't really see the appeal. Issuing voice commands or hand signals are all well and good, but you're still limited to a preset list of commands. You may as well just be pressing a button to issue those same commands. Developers still struggle with making AI not act retarded in combat, let alone making things like voice interaction with virtual characters believable enough to be considered an immersive concept.

The absolute best that can come out of this is head tracking to aid in the illusion of 3D. Otherwise its uses will be limited to "replacing" button presses with comparitively less responsive and less reliable voice commands / hand signals, and games that have been seen on previous iterations of webcam-based motion-sensing (much like the Breakout game seen in the E3 presentation). It won't add any significant functionality to gaming; it'll just give people yet another reason to yell at their televisions.

xDimMaK

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"]Because MS at there press conference had a hole section dedicated to "breaking down the barrier" of gaming with controllers. The videos they showed of with the familys you saw No controllers. All the games they have shown show no controllers anywhere to manipulate the game space. Wii_Gamer_277

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

When it's E3 demo that was meant to show off the possibilities of gameplay isn't even impressive, you know it's in for a rocky road ahead.

Imagine how airy and disconnected gaming would feel without an imput device?

Games will be reduced to limb flailing and jogging on the spot.

What genres can actually work on this thing?

There is no way to implement hardcore games with natal without any kind of input device. You don't have to be a game designer to know this. Without a controller, you will be limitied to voice commands, facial expressions and gestures. remember, MS said during the conference that Natal is purely controller free! You are the input device. You can't get around not having a physical input device. The only way Natal will be useful will be for gimmicky games like wii sports or be integrated into controller based games as an extension of control. Every other Natal Only based games will flop.

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

When it's E3 demo that was meant to show off the possibilities of gameplay isn't even impressive, you know it's in for a rocky road ahead.

Imagine how airy and disconnected gaming would feel without an imput device?

Games will be reduced to limb flailing and jogging on the spot.

What genres can actually work on this thing?

There is no way to implement hardcore games with natal without any kind of input device. You don't have to be a game designer to know this. Without a controller, you will be limitied to voice commands, facial expressions and gestures. remember, MS said during the conference that Natal is purely controller free! You are the input device. You can't get around not having a physical input device. The only way Natal will be useful will be for gimmicky games like wii sports or be integrated into controller based games as an extension of control. Every other Natal Only based games will flop.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"] hey im just going by what MS said. I think there purpose for NATAL is controller-less gaming whether it be you interacting through voice/ or using your body to control the character/environment. If you through in a controller it pretty much defeats the purpose of the device and you just have another wiimote or sony wand.Wii_Gamer_277

PS. And I was also thinking of the possibility of a controller augmentation for Natal, similar to the Wiimote Nunchuck, but strapped to the wrist instead and designed to be gripped so you can't drop or throw it, with an analog on top for easy reach with the thumb and perhaps a trigger or two in the grip. Simple and natural enough to be holding in the hand even while you're moving around.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Not if the Natal opens more control options than the controller can do. Think about it. What's the one thing keeping RTS's from coming to consoles? Controls--namely, not enough of them.xDimMaK

More people need to click this link. Especially those that have it in their heads NATAL is replacing the X360 controller or NATAL can't be used with the X360 controller.

From the horses mouth.

natal can pritty much work with lots of mini games, so it has funtionality in actual gaming, just like the eyetoy

More people need to click this link. Especially those that have it in their heads NATAL is replacing the X360 controller or NATAL can't be used with the X360 controller.

From the horses mouth.

And this, ladies and gents, is why Natal will be the next Virtual Boy

Good way to ADD absolutely NOTHING to your own argument, I'm actually still waiting for your time machine that you used to go to the future and use natal with.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

That's different. You're in a car and the car is moving for you. the driver doesn't get out and walk. Here's a better question. How would you play a game like Halo or Alan Wake or even splinter cell with Natal?

rotaredom

I can actually imagine a simple control scheme on the spot - lower your body a bit to crouch, head to look around, a quick forward palm gesture for shooting (and stop shooting only when you bring the palm in the previous position), rotate the wrist to reload, move the arm towards the face for iron sights, use the other hand to swap weapons/flashlight/inventory items. And maybe the other foot for sprinting. All while sitting. You can even rest your elbows and upper arms, since everything except iron sights is done using the forearm.

Holy **** someone should hire me.

That's your typical response. everything that Natal can do will look ridiculous to you. as your responses throught out this thread.

He atleast is imagining these control schemes, what makes you think that developers will not come up with some control scheme ideas and testing.

DOn't go thinking that the demonstrations of the Prooject Natal device will not be fine tuned and improved upon.

*they have until next year to imrpove upon it

*developers have been given substantial support from Microsoft as they stated in E3 dev kits have been sent out that day

*Natal can work in tandem with existing object skateboards, and of course a controller

*Voice recognition works

*uses 48 point tracking more advance then Eyetoy

*multiple people are recognised -demonstrated on the tv show Jimmy Falon

*response time can be improved- works ok with racing games so far still is a prototype

*MS takes is seriously devoting a new SKU for it next year

*Bungie have shown iterest

*Major developers have shown interest

*majority of polls have shown interest

*It is the most talked about thing since E3-research has shown this-there is interest and anticipation

*spearheaded by a prominant designer previously involved with Wii-motion

*Journalists have tried it-Naysayers here who speculate on its controls have not.

*software for it and user base is of course zero because it hasn't launchd yet.

The thread topic makes no sense "Natal has zero functionality" when it already shows it has functionality.

*TC has not shown actually provided any links to back his claim that Natal has no functionality in games.

*naysayers say emphasis that it must be implemented well to be successful at the least but have not provided any ideas or solutions.

*Once again casual does not mean bad. It is just your perspective and opinion.

*There will always be change, unless naysyers want to be long in the tooth I suggest you get use to it.

Motion technology is here already and it only takes more talented developers to take advantage of it.

Don't forget. games are meant to be fun.

If a simple game like the dodgeball game demonstrated on Natal can invoke excitement and fun from the audience.

We all remember what games are about right??

Natal has functionality and thesde things can only be improved upon.

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

You do know that peter molyneux (now in a comfortable position at ms HQ) told a worried hardcore gamer 'You don't have to be afraid, the controller isn't going anywhere'. 'Imagine what you could do with NATAL AND a controller'

SW_modified

Why the hell would you use both? :|

why not?

we usec controllers with voice recognition before-Rainow six, End war and countless Wii games.

Is there a rule somewhere you can only use one device to play a game?

Pc users have been using 2 devices for eons. The mouse and the keyboard.

This shows naysayers have no imagination.

Thank heavens they're nbot game developers or we would still be using the one button joystick.

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"]

[QUOTE="epyonx3"]]

Oh please, speare me. I'm not saying it's completely useless. I'm saying it won't work with popular games. You just need a controller, there's no way around it. The PS3 version does a better job at this with it's controllers but it still wouldn't work as most gamers want it to.

nhh18

I'm thinking all your game experiences have been bad.

I played KZ2 and there is some motion tech there. It worked well and it wasn't impossible for me.

[QUOTE="Norule04"]

[QUOTE="epyonx3"]

Don't get me worng, I think if you mix a controller with facial recognition, for example, would be awesome if done right. but no controller games are just plain dull.

nhh18

NATAL only control could work for adventure games.

that's correct.

Including Natal. That answers your thread question it has functionality.

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]

So with your argument every game is going to be good due to previews.

I'm not the one using previews as evidence that something is going to be worthwhile you are.

rotaredom

Personally, I'd take the previewers words over yours. They, after all, have actually used Natal :|

so, but you still havn't tried it yet.

The people who tried it say otherwise.

This thread topic is the most horrid and casual debauchery I have witnessed.

The thing is I havn't tried to make a thread like this.