Natal has zero funtionality in actual gaming, lets stop pretending it will

[QUOTE="wolverine4262"][QUOTE="nhh18"]Because I played games where you had to do that stuff and it was impossible. Play warhawk with motion sensing and tell me how great it is.

nhh18

so was using dual sticks.

Controls use to be one stick now we have two moving around independently. One stick to control where your are looking the other for body movement.

Now that we have that added functionali9ty how many of us here can go back to one way of controlling a game? really?

Now this is dual controls, with voice recog.(no different then barking orders to team mates)

moving your head around is pretty natural don't you think?

Just like riding a bike.

You get use to the concept of speed, balance and continually pedling.

Then you have the more advanced movements, braking, sliding, bunny hoping, wheelies in tandem with speed, balancing and pedling.

What do you think??????

Here's an example"

Playing Halo , your playing like you normally do and taking cover

you call out to Cortana" I need a weapons drop"

Cortana responds "weapons drop coming soon" and a drop ship flys by with extra arsenal while in the meantime you are battling the Covenant.

Don't really need to check you menu as Cortana could tell you what stock you have in your inventory while you are busy holding out agaisnt the enemy.

Your squad mates are on your left and right hand side You quickly point out to them , make a hand or arm gesture and point to two look out points in the distance. The squad mates then sneak or run into those look outs for sniper cover.

While you yourself are getting into position for a surprise ambush.

Imagine a game called deathrace.

You can use either your controller or a game steering wheel and while driving you can shoot at ommponents with your left hand.

This is pretty natural- like drive by shooting.

Your driving really fast, make a brake and start sliding and you look to the left and you point in that same direction while firing and the car is pointing a different direction-That's head traching, control steering and hand gesture shooting all in one motion.

Natal has functionality in gaming.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="rotaredom"]That sounds absolutely ridiculous.

rotaredom

Yeah, like the Wii. I mean, damn, flailing your arms? Using a board?

It'll sell thousands!

Oh wait.

Have real world objects scanned including controllers.

use the Xbox360 controller in place of a place holder there is your force feedback right there.

Use an actual tennis racket when playing virtua tennis.

a golf club for Tiger woods.

Skateboard for SKATE.

a couple of sticks in place of the wands or your tv remote controls. Heck even some frying pans like base ball bats for MLB.

That's my attempt for argument and I'm using my imagination. They're are some talented developers out there who can come with better ideas then me.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"][QUOTE="Baranga"]

You still have to press a button for the car to accelerate and steer. For Natal, this translates to moving your foot forward/backwards and steering. For a shooter, you move only with your foot - forward, backward, left, right - and let the arms, body and head do the rest.

I can actually imagine a simple control scheme on the spot - lower your body a bit to crouch, head to look around, a quick forward palm gesture for shooting (and stop shooting only when you bring the palm in the previous position), rotate the wrist to reload, move the arm towards the face for iron sights, use the other hand to swap weapons/flashlight/inventory items. And maybe the other foot for sprinting. All while sitting. You can even rest your elbows and upper arms, since everything except iron sights is done using the forearm.

Holy **** someone should hire me.

rotaredom

Halo : sign language Evolved

lol

LOL. The military uses sign language for sneaking in and issuing commands silently.

Wii motion is not the reason the games are terrible, it's the actuall games. Anyway there are many excellent Wii games. They just don't appeal to you. I notice a lot of things do not.

Judging by the Wii's failure at fitting into standard gaming, motion controls have no place in the gaming industry.... what happened to the good 'Ol days of just a joy stick and a button? :(

ps3wizard45

It just shows that some gamers are getting long in the tooth.

What happen to the good all days of a joystick and one button.

Standard gaming? Then we have people who complain FPS are becoming stale.

If nothing is tried then we don't profress and move on.

As we speak right now they're is a younger generation of gamers who are growing up with motion technology and they will replace some of the gaming dinosaurs around here. There is no way in heck they will go gaming with out motion technology anymore.

Touchscreen technology is also here, millions of Ipod users and Iphone users will not go with out touch now. It is simply to easy, intuitive and more practical to use to go back.

I know. I'm one of them.

Technology will always progress even if some gamers are stuck in the last century.

I can't even begin to imagine the possibilties games can do in the next 10 years.

I only thought as far life like graphics and virtual reality, bow there is touch, motion and voice recognition as well.

Menu systems in games may no longer be just static screens but can also interact with you beyond just the 2-d plain that we call the screen.

Menus that tell you what you have in your inventory, take orders from you to stock up, repaird, replace, sell or buy.

Elaborate menus that can be accessed more swiftky and naturally this potential could be realised like in the movie _Minority report.

Using gestures to navigate a virtual menu.

Imagine navigating quickly and intuitavely the 3d menu that was in the game Deadspace with your hands.

Tell Natal to "Bring up the menu" and a translucent menu apears and you can rotate it, expand compartments etc..

Of you are to busy in a firefight rely on voice recognition and the menu will tell you what you have instead.

Technolgy moves on.

How many of us here would prefer playing with a wireles controller as opposed to a wired one? Really do any of us here want to go back to it???

How about simple things like interacting with the NXE dashboard when you just simply walk into a room and the Xbox360 turns itsef on and you are automatically signed in.

Swiping your way around menus with your hand because you're to lazy to find the remote control, or you can be even more lazy and just tell the the Xbox360 to shut itself down.

A;l this is pretty advance stuff, but with technology it looks to be going in that direction.

If naysayers had it there way we would all still be playing an Atari 2600 with a one button control stick, on a 1 metre cord.

No offence to Atari 2600 fans out there.

Way to argue over completely useless stuff and completely ignore all the possible game control options that I present in my post about project natal.mythrol

don't worry about it. It is obvious he made his mind up long before any of this. You can throw links, stats, demonstrations, journalist comments and opinions, developers claimoing to support it etc..

He will find any little thing he can to make his point across. Which he has completely lost it.

He said Natal has zero functionality when there is functionality. Natal could be right in front of him and he will still deny it

[QUOTE="AdmiralBison"]

Fight night round 5 would be awesome if implemented well with Natal.

It would have to be fast and furious tracking both your fists, head and torso.

There would be a transparent sillhoeutte of you like Punch out and that would copy your movements.

I reckon the Project Natal device is only a protoype but will be drastically improved in point and response by the time it comes out next year.

I can't wait to try it out.

Filthybastrd

That would give me a fun week or two before the obese and heavily built people quit. Being small and skinny has it uses in competetive motion controlled games that rely on speed and reflexes.

Edit: I have no faith in Natal btw.

well the heavily built and those who are not as fit can still use a controller.

You don't have to be small and skinny to be competitive. There are big guys who are pretty fast, have stamina and with a good reach.

NBA players, Boxers and a lot of athletes are large and fast.

I could imagine it now. You and I sparring in Fight night.

I definately wouldn't quit because of health concerns, I would quit because of actually getting smacked around and a bruised ego.

That's fair enough you have no faith in Natal. I for one am excited to try it out and how it will be used with games.

Ultimately I want Minority Report controlling of the menus.

Wow, Project Natal is really getting a ton of heat, I don't really remember any addon getting this much hate and fear. Why don't we wait until it Project Natal is coming out, or at least have an offical name, besides the code name.

[QUOTE="Wartzay"]

What PC gamers have been enjoying for years.

Chaos_HL21

That is pretty neat, if Nataluses stuff like that it could really work. But the PC had been ahead of the consoles for a while

yeah it was pretty cool, so lets hope that move on to consoles well.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"][QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"] If you ad the controller is defeates the purpose of NATAL witch is controller-less gaming.SpruceCaboose

yes, however I think Natal can do all of that. Play games that don't really require a controller and for some games it will work along in tandem with the controller. There will probably be games that use one or the other purpose. Ijust hope there will be a lot of games that will give you the option to use Natal in some way or form and what level of use.

The controller can even be used as an extension or a place holder for force vibrational feedback.

Natal seems accurate as it was mentioned that it would recognise facial expressions. That's pretty subtle stuff.

just had the thought of a film.. cant remember what it was but he was like flicking through photos i think like wearing some gloves (it was tom cruise) also similiar thing with a carpet advert as well LOL but you could if you had a big enough screen take the RTS of using voice to a whole new level. since you could wave you arms n move units around.

I cant see any ways it could be used for FPS, FIFA/PES and also racing games "competively" but i think its like the next step in what the wii was doing :)

Unlike the Wii remote, NATAL isn't a standard mode of control for the 360. If gaming trends has taught me anything over the last 10 years or so, non-standard peripherals will never make it in the core gaming industry. How many people will actually get NATAL together with the standard pack? 1 out of 10 customers. How many devs will find it financially viable to develop games for a control only favoured by 1 out of 10 customers? Maybe 1 out of 20 devs. That is a fail to me.

jhcho2

That's why MS is creating a whole SKU with Natal implemented.

You can bet my sweet a$& they will market it to hell and back as it will be on the scale of a new console launch. This is not just a peripheral to MS, they will treat it as essential to pushing the Xbox360. This is part of the 10 year lifecycle.

They sent out dev kits on day with E3. recent polls showed by current Xbxo360 owners was around 75% for anticipation. Teamxbox.com.

How do we know about Developer finances that it would stop or inhibit them from implementing Natal in their games.

Even some of the most skeptical devs have commited to implementing it in 1 or 2 of their games and see how it will go from there.

Natal hasn't failed because it isn't out yet.

The biggest risk and failure is not risking and failing at all. Technology will progress and those who simply dismiss it because of simple fanboyism can stay where they are while the rest of the world moves on.

It's this static mindset that fails to see progression, and those who finally do recognise it as it is arethen left to -play catch up.

When Wii motion was revealed there were many detractors, but then Sony made a half-baked attempt to try and immulate it with their knee jerk reaction that is the six-axis and they didn't even really push it, support it or do enough substantially with it. While Nintendo and their "casual" games is the major market share.

You're seeing the same thing now. Sony said it themselves they were not really going to reveal the Sony wand until MS shows their project. Even then it wasn't that much of a step up or different enough from the Wii motion plus.

MS howvever are revolving a whole new console launch mindset around Project Natal- SKUs, Public demonstrations at E3, Shows, polling, sending out dev kits and getting some developers working soley on Natal-Rare(albeit with some dout in mind)

If MS has to take a loss for each Natal sold, so be it. They made a loss with the original Xbox to get a foot in the door of the video market, they can certainly takes a loss with this device especially now since they are in a better market position and the Xbox360 is performing better then the Xbox.

Expectations and aniticipations for Natal are high. Even among detractors it has caught their attention,Natal is the most talked about thing in E3, hence this thread and many more like them.

Either way we swing it, Motion technology is now on the consumers conscience. Doesn't matter if your are completely against it or excited by it.

It has voice recognition you know... voice commands are very simple to implement in games... Hell Socom: US Navy SEALs back on PS2 in 2002 had voice commands for AI team mates over the headset... same with Endwar more recently...

RPG games like Mass Effect could use it as well, during the dialogue trees... instead of simply picking an option, you could say an option...

I agree on the movement aspect... One of my best friends is in a wheelchair and thus can't stand up and jump around in front of natal... And I simply don't want to do it... the "hands free gaming" is just very unimportant to me... I like controllers...

Squeets

Wouldn't it be easier to move the analog stick a half an inch over and pressing A rather than saying the whole line? :P

[QUOTE="Squeets"]

It has voice recognition you know... voice commands are very simple to implement in games... Hell Socom: US Navy SEALs back on PS2 in 2002 had voice commands for AI team mates over the headset... same with Endwar more recently...

RPG games like Mass Effect could use it as well, during the dialogue trees... instead of simply picking an option, you could say an option...

I agree on the movement aspect... One of my best friends is in a wheelchair and thus can't stand up and jump around in front of natal... And I simply don't want to do it... the "hands free gaming" is just very unimportant to me... I like controllers...

StealthMonkey4

Wouldn't it be easier to move the analog stick a half an inch over and pressing A rather than saying the whole line? :P

he he. Gaming takes can be hard sometimes.

Some times I can;t find my Xbox360 remote controller. If could just use my hands or waggle my finger around instead to control basic dvd functions I would.

that my friend is wonderfully lazy.:P

[QUOTE="Squeets"]

It has voice recognition you know... voice commands are very simple to implement in games... Hell Socom: US Navy SEALs back on PS2 in 2002 had voice commands for AI team mates over the headset... same with Endwar more recently...

RPG games like Mass Effect could use it as well, during the dialogue trees... instead of simply picking an option, you could say an option...

I agree on the movement aspect... One of my best friends is in a wheelchair and thus can't stand up and jump around in front of natal... And I simply don't want to do it... the "hands free gaming" is just very unimportant to me... I like controllers...

StealthMonkey4

Wouldn't it be easier to move the analog stick a half an inch over and pressing A rather than saying the whole line? :P

And as for the accuracy of this gesture recognition, here's food for thought. Recently, projectable keyboards came on the market. They project the image of a keyboard and then track your fingers as you type on this projected keyboard. It's designed ultra-small for on-the-go people to use with their phones. But the point is this--if a device like that can pick out whether you hit the T or the Y (or the G, for that matter) then perhaps visual recognition is reaching a point of practicality.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"] Anything less the 100$ is asking to little, If MS charges 100 bucks just to get a wifi connection on your 360...dont you think I "advenced" system like this will cost even more? They can bundle it as you said and it will cost more as well.... I think when I said 150+ I was being resonable not premature. MS overprices add-ons to there console and NATAL will be no different IMO.Wii_Gamer_277

[QUOTE="Wii_Gamer_277"][QUOTE="delta3074"]it's an add on, if you don't like it, don't buy it, how does cost affect game functionality?HuusAsking

are they considered casual or hardcore games?

just had the thought of a film.. cant remember what it was but he was like flicking through photos i think like wearing some gloves (it was tom cruise) also similiar thing with a carpet advert as well LOL but you could if you had a big enough screen take the RTS of using voice to a whole new level. since you could wave you arms n move units around.

I cant see any ways it could be used for FPS, FIFA/PES and also racing games "competively" but i think its like the next step in what the wii was doing :)

o0squishy0o

the movie is called Minorty report.

That's the concept I was trying to refer to in regards to the potential of Projects natals interaction with menu systems.

Pretty advanced stuff.

Thought I'm starting to think there may have to be some handsign gesture convention that will be recognized across different games.

like the palm gesture to stop

Point to own eyes to indicate to lookout or watch.

steering wheels gesture to get ready to drive.

swipe your hand or hopefully waggle your finger across to move menus or delete something on screen.

do a twirly sign with your finger to open up options in sub menus.

There has to be some sort of common gesture convention like they do with sign language if it is to become huge and accepted accross many genres, menus and other interactions.

Though it may be the same with voice commands when it comes to voice recognition as well.

[QUOTE="o0squishy0o"]

just had the thought of a film.. cant remember what it was but he was like flicking through photos i think like wearing some gloves (it was tom cruise) also similiar thing with a carpet advert as well LOL but you could if you had a big enough screen take the RTS of using voice to a whole new level. since you could wave you arms n move units around.

I cant see any ways it could be used for FPS, FIFA/PES and also racing games "competively" but i think its like the next step in what the wii was doing :)

AdmiralBison

the movie is called Minorty report.

That's the concept I was trying to refer to in regards to the potential of Projects natals interaction with menu systems.

Pretty advanced stuff.

Thought I'm starting to think there may have to be some handsign gesture convention that will be recognized across different games.

like the palm gesture to stop

Point to own eyes to indicate to lookout or watch.

steering wheels gesture to get ready to drive.

swipe your hand or hopefully waggle your finger across to move menus or delete something on screen.

do a twirly sign with your finger to open up options in sub menus.

There has to be some sort of common gesture convention like they do with sign language if it is to become huge and accepted accross many genres, menus and other interactions.

Though it may be the same with voice commands when it comes to voice recognition as well.

As for tactical games (squad games like you mentioned), perhaps it's best to base it on conventions used in real life. For example, the US military has a tactical sign language for nonverbal communication within a squad. That could form a basis for a gesture-based military tactical shooter.

[QUOTE="AdmiralBison"]

[QUOTE="o0squishy0o"]

just had the thought of a film.. cant remember what it was but he was like flicking through photos i think like wearing some gloves (it was tom cruise) also similiar thing with a carpet advert as well LOL but you could if you had a big enough screen take the RTS of using voice to a whole new level. since you could wave you arms n move units around.

I cant see any ways it could be used for FPS, FIFA/PES and also racing games "competively" but i think its like the next step in what the wii was doing :)

HuusAsking

the movie is called Minorty report.

That's the concept I was trying to refer to in regards to the potential of Projects natals interaction with menu systems.

Pretty advanced stuff.

Thought I'm starting to think there may have to be some handsign gesture convention that will be recognized across different games.

like the palm gesture to stop

Point to own eyes to indicate to lookout or watch.

steering wheels gesture to get ready to drive.

swipe your hand or hopefully waggle your finger across to move menus or delete something on screen.

do a twirly sign with your finger to open up options in sub menus.

There has to be some sort of common gesture convention like they do with sign language if it is to become huge and accepted accross many genres, menus and other interactions.

Though it may be the same with voice commands when it comes to voice recognition as well.

As for tactical games (squad games like you mentioned), perhaps it's best to base it on conventions used in real life. For example, the US military has a tactical sign language for nonverbal communication within a squad. That could form a basis for a gesture-based military tactical shooter.

yeah your right about the military sign language. It could work well and be implemented in Natal if developers wanted or the military will allow it.

That's one set of gesture conventions

I can't think of that many sets of hand gestures apart form your common everyday sign languages like ok, bye-bye, hello, crazy, piece, stop, helicopter take-off it may depend on the game teaching you the set of gestures that would be effective for the genre.

^^

I think you're more right about that sort of function as well when you point and drag, as the girl demonstrated when picking an out fit for her avatar.

It almost seemed like a "drag and drop" too.

Natal has a lot of functionality and Microsoft wants that ability on Windows as well.

So yeah it looks like Project Natal and it's functionality will be fairly significant.

Project Natal to bring gesture recognition to Windows.

Project natal has functionality