PC Gaming is losing its purpose and advantage.

well for that matter in todays era so do indies.

the notion that indies are low production quality by comparison is no longer an accurate assessment, let alone to many the game play with indies are considerably better. to many I know this sounds like crazy talk but it really isnt

@scatteh316: thank you. Although I fundamentally disagree with the lack of appreciation for indies around here. But I get it

Sure they do count, why wouldn't they? But by listing the games you see the fundemental problem with PC gaming. Almost all exclusives PC is getting are RTS and moba's (and indies). There are hardly any other AAA PC exclusives around. Mobas and RTS games are niche genres, your average brogamer does not care about those genres.

PC just doesn't have any interesting, compelling AAA exclusives. And especially no mainstream AAA exclusives in development.

Hahaha? What? Show us these AAA PC exclusives then hermit?

And PC has no gens but if it did, this gen was pathetic for PC.

Indies don't fit in to the AAA criteria because...well...they're indies.

But one of my favourite PC exclusive indie games is coming PS4 next week....

Niche genres...

MOBA Has 2 of the biggest games on the market, dwarfing any single player games by a very large margin after being on the market for years... only eclipsed by the rise of Battle Royale ... but still holding its own.

What planet do you live on? it ain't earth.

STRATEGY games (hint: not just RTS... which have dwindeled) are still wildly popular on PC and heavily played. the only reason you think they are niche is because toy-controllers are s*it for most genres and can't handle anything more than C&C and Halo Wars.

Zaryia has already done the hard work, I'l let him copy pasta.

Need I remind you that 9+ is not the only "high quality" level, and have over 100+ more AA games is worth more than the 2-3 AAA games after 5 years of console market domincation...

Which again, will be streamable.

Both Warhammer Total Wars were AAA here, you guys just shifted the goal posts.

but what I am saying is that parsing discussions around AAA is just no longer as valid as it used to be.

or to say it another way, why even bother talking about AAA specifically only in the first place, its an arbitrary requirement that no longer has a point.

there is a large sector of the gaming population that is living in the past

Zaryia's numbers are wrong, and all you have to do it see how wrong they are is to spend 25 minutes on Metacritic and count the game scores up yourself.

I've done that and it shows that since PS4 release is has the most AAA/AAAE games available.

I've not cheated like Zaryia has, my numbers are easily vertified as being correct by vissiting metacritic yourself.

And all of sudden hermits are happy streaming console games at 720p/30fps with high input lag? Amazing how double standards drop when ownage is trying to be claimed.

But you are correct that 9+ score is not the only high quality level... the high quality level around here is 'AA' or above which starts at 8+

Oh man indeed, look at those double standards. I thought the master race only played games at 60 fps?

This argument again?

There is a big difference between having 99.9% of the best version of games, and actually being able to play ALL games compared to lower on 99.9% of games, and having far less games to play in general (consoles)

Yea, 720p / 30fps sucks, that doesn't change the fact however, that the game is playable. keep adding those extra goal posts in boys! maybe you'l start believing your own half-arsed justifications

@scatteh316 yea no.. his are correct. and hes also pointed that alot of console scores are also inflated whereas the SAME game, which is the BETTER version gest 88/89 on PC. another reason we use to stick to Gamespot until you guys decided otherwise... inconsistency across platforms.

the problem with this entire debate, as well as so many others on this subject, is the antiquated assumption that AAA are of high quality more so then non AAA. that used to be true, it is no longer true

They're not correct...... he can keep piping that 'some games scored different' bullshit all he likes......

Hermits, bragging about having more, lower scoring games....Hahaha....

PC only has 2 games on Metacritic that scored 90 or above so far this year....... 1 is a multiplat and the other is an indie game.

Meanwhile PS4 is on 6 games that scored 90 or above with 2 of those being exclusives..

But yes... PC has more, lower scoring games...

That's like claiming you won the Olympics because you have more silver medals then the winning country has gold...

Where's the exclusives!!!!!

And you keep justifying your double standards. Hermits always spouting anything under 60 fps is unplayable. Lol

But hey I'm happy you understand the best game of this gen, RDR 2 is only playable on consoles.

@scatteh316 said:

@kali-b1rd said:

@knight-k said:

@scatteh316 said:

@kali-b1rd said:

Zaryia has already done the hard work, I'l let him copy pasta.

Need I remind you that 9+ is not the only "high quality" level, and have over 100+ more AA games is worth more than the 2-3 AAA games after 5 years of console market domincation...

Which again, will be streamable.

Both Warhammer Total Wars were AAA here, you guys just shifted the goal posts.

Zaryia's numbers are wrong, and all you have to do it see how wrong they are is to spend 25 minutes on Metacritic and count the game scores up yourself.

I've done that and it shows that since PS4 release is has the most AAA/AAAE games available.

I've not cheated like Zaryia has, my numbers are easily vertified as being correct by vissiting metacritic yourself.

And all of sudden hermits are happy streaming console games at 720p/30fps with high input lag? Amazing how double standards drop when ownage is trying to be claimed.

But you are correct that 9+ score is not the only high quality level... the high quality level around here is 'AA' or above which starts at 8+

Oh man indeed, look at those double standards. I thought the master race only played games at 60 fps?

@scatteh316 yea no.. his are correct. and hes also pointed that alot of console scores are also inflated whereas the SAME game, which is the BETTER version gest 88/89 on PC. another reason we use to stick to Gamespot until you guys decided otherwise... inconsistency across platforms.

They're not correct...... he can keep piping that 'some games scored different' bullshit all he likes......

Hermits, bragging about having more, lower scoring games....Hahaha....

PC only has 2 games on Metacritic that scored 90 or above so far this year....... 1 is a multiplat and the other is an indie game.

Meanwhile PS4 is on 6 games that scored 90 or above with 2 of those being exclusives..

But yes... PC has more, lower scoring games...

That's like claiming you won the Olympics because you have more silver medals then the winning country has gold...

Where's the exclusives!!!!!

"Bu...bu...look at all of muh indiessssss!"

meh I just don't like to game on PC anymore wake me up when the official classic WoW servers come up.

My Vita is the ultimate indie machine my ps4 plays everything fine.

Options suck.

I feel like this debate comes up once a month, but I'll type it out again

Reasons I game on PC:

Play games any way I want (M&K, controller, joystick, etc).

Play games with whatever features I want (mods, or no mods, don't care - depends on the game and what I want. I can have it).

Retro gaming - I spent my weekend playing Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and Medieval II: Total War. I don't need another box to do this. I just can. And before you "lol old games" - these are GOOD games. Like, really good games. Like, some of the best games ever made. I don't care how old a game is, I just want to play good ones. And these are games I've never played before - they are new to me. There are thousands of classics - a lifetime - for me to chip away at. If these things don't matter to you, that's your preference to deal with, not my problem. It's hugely important to me. If I like it, I'll play it, and PC lets me do that. I have a stack of old consoles to do this for console games; and I hate it. Literally one of the best parts of the early PS3 was you could play almost any PS game along with the new ones. Then it died... so I had to unbox my PS2 and buy a PS3 slim and now I have 3 Playstations under my TV like some hoarder.

Indies. I don't understand why people don't like them. When I was a kid, there was basically no such thing as AAA. I didn't care - most games were little experimental fringe efforts and I loved it. There's nothing wrong with AAA games - HZD and BOTW are some of my favorite games in ages. But one of the reasons I prefer PS over XBox is not the mainstream stuff. Spiderman? Give me a break. One of the best games PS4 has to offer is The Last Guardian, and nobody talks about that masterpiece. TLG isn't technically an indie, but that kind of quirky and unique experience is becoming too rare on consoles and I love that you can play weird unique shit 24/7 on PC. Kerbal Space program rules.

Strategy games. I love them. They are one of my favorite genres. Maybe my favorite.

Point and click puzzle adventure games. Some of these fall into the point about retro gaming, but some are brand new like Obduction. Shit, that almost counts as AAA in my eyes, and the graphics are great, but the marketing whores on here probably don't even know about it - legendary development team behind Myst and Riven. These games are too rare on console.

Multiplats. Yes, I said it. I don't know what goes on in peoples' heads around here, but newsflash: most AAA games are not exclusives. In fact, consoles have steadily lost AAA game exclusivity to PC. Its fallen to a handful per year. Most of the big budget games you claim to love are on PC. And when I play them on PC, I get to play them typically for cheaper and any way I want (see points 1 and 2).

You say there's no reason to own PC? For me, there are fewer and fewer reasons to own consoles now - especially given that last point. I literally only own a PS4 for its handful of exclusives.

You guys don't have to like PC gaming. But if you aren't a PC gamer, you really don't have a right to say it is losing its purpose. Because you don't understand its purpose. All I ever read from Cows on here is AAA budget, sales, and cinematic graphics. It's pathetic.

Regardless of what you say, it's not the same as it was and is a shadow of it's former self....... the era of Half Life 2, Doom 3 and games around that time period are the peak of its dominance and something that it'll more then likely never see again.

It's a sad shadow of its former technology and industry pushing self.

So you brought up 2 multiplats as an example of PC dominance. What exactly has changed for the worse since then?

You honestly think they we're designed as multiplats?

And the quality difference in of graphics between PC and console versions was monstrous and much, much larger then the gap that exists today.

@scatteh316: I don't get it. Did you read my post? That's your definition of what makes PC worthwhile, not mine.

They were exclusives first, but since hermits pirate all of their games they had no choice other than going multiplat.

Hence why PC hardly has no AAA exclusives anymore.

Exactly...so why did you call people who do not share your view 'pathetic' ?

And the whole

'But if you aren't a PC gamer, you really don't have a right to say it is losing its purpose'

What a load of crap that comment is......

By that logic, if you don't own a console you don't really have the right to say the graphics are crap and the frame rate is unplayable.

And yet Hermits do....

Doom 3 launched on original Xbox simultaneous to PC, however it's "graphical powerhouse" thunder was stolen by Chronicles Of Riddick, which also debuted on original Xbox.

Whatever you're trying to convey, i don't see it.

no I would agree with that.

if you are not playing PC gaming then there is a extremely high chance (which I base off of experience) that you do not understand PC gaming thus would be unable to know of its 'purpose' in the first place.

I mean the drivel consoler say about PC gaming is just hysterical level ignorance, they have nearly zero idea what they are even talking about 1/2 the time

I gamed on PC.....for years... so I'm more then qualified to give my views on it.

most consolers havent a friggin clue.

here is a test, is a lot of tweaking and setup often required to get a game to run on a PC?

I applaud your gaming choices. I too love Vampire the masquerade. And yes it sucks that PS4 isn't backwards compatible with previous gens.

But everything you wrote was subjective.

You can't ignore that PC has a big issue with getting AAA exclusives though. In the past PC had those but not anymore.

Nope......... The only game that ever really gave me shit was STALKER:COP as you had to do some funky stuff on STEAM to get the full game to download properly.

I didn't say people who don't share my view of what defines PC gaming are pathetic. I said people who only care about graphics and sales are pathetic. And I stand by that - if it's wrong to like anything that doesn't have sick multi-million dollar graphics and sells a lot then I don't want to be right. I'll never criticize someone for preferring different genres from me, but I'll definitely criticize someone who thinks development money and sales are what define a good game. That's an orthogonal issue to taste in a type of game - or even type of platform.

Well, I agree with you. That stuff's annoying and misguided.

ok that does give you street cred.

usually a dead give away is 'i dont want to PC game because I dont want to have to fiddle with settings and updates'

@knight-k: I can agree with you that PC doesn't have the scope of AAA exclusives it used to. But that seems to be the same issue consoles have now - the two development markets are merging. I used to own all consoles and a PC because they all had totally different experiences. Hell, the Genesis and SNES had games from the same IP with the same name but that played completely differently. Super unique. Now there are barely any AAA exclusives on consoles - most that exist are developed by the hardware manufacturer's parent company's studios (i.e., 1st party). Of course there's no such thing as PC 1st party, so sure - there inherently are a half-dozen more AAA console exclusives than PC. Most AAA PC that CAN come to console do.

I'm ok with that. What I'm really bugged about is that people who don't game on PC think PC is just about graphics, and therefore it is losing because it doesn't have TLOU2-type games exclusive to it.

IDK, I need to step out of this - I don't have the fortitude to trash a platform choice, and I shouldn't. I love my consoles too.

I never fiddle with game settings as I ALWAYS had a PC that could max anything... so I just turned everything to Ultra and played the game.

There was still bull shit problems though....

- Not being able to play the first Far Cry game with HDR on because if you set the games lighting to Ultra with an AMD GPU the game wouldn't launch

- Nvidia DSR breaking SLI in some games

- Some driver updates breaking SLI/Crossfire scaling

Little niggles like that....but they were easily sorted with the help of Google.

But, I've literally had zero issues with my PS4 so even though my PC issues were sparse and minor it was still more then what my PS4 has given me.

I remember I was playing a game once and saw red water cooling fluid just puddle up on my desk in front of my eyes........ Proper shit myself moment.... I only hand turned my compression fitting and the fluid pissed out every where inside my PC.... nothing died though so it was the ball ache of having to strip it, dry it off and then put it back together.

horseshit

I have no doubt that having specific arbitrary requirements exist but in general its literally, click to buy, click to play

99.999% of the time.

Again, this is where the argument falls apart:

1) you seem to think 1-2 AAA games cancel out 100s of AA games... this is absolute trash and you know it.

2) Again, as evidenced by Zaryia previously, some of those AAA on consoles are AA on PC, this makes no logical sense in real world application, again you know this.

Your "only AAA matters" is redundant and has been for a very long time.

You mean because the focus shifted from Single Player Graphics-heavy games that are a risk on ANY platform being exclusive and shifted to online/competitive/sandbox/mod heavy games ?

That's just part of the times. I know consoles are typically 5-10 years behind in trends, but while you are wanking over the ammount of detail in Kratos beard, there are 10s of millions of gamers playing genres that didn't exist 10 years ago.... and even now the fastest selling game of this year was an expansion to a 2004 MMO that I quote from you clowns "looks like a PS2 game".

It has the biggest range of AAA games on the market, can already play Nintendo ones to some degree, and will be able to stream the 1-2 you get every 1-2 years on playstation.

The reverse cannot be said.

Where is Warhammer Total War 2 for example?

Better worded than I could of said.

There are a great deal of AA games this gen that I would happily take over some of Sony's AAA studios games, which I often feel like "Wooo pretty, but braindead" Spiderman being the latest example... fun for an hour, then you've see its depth in its entirety, when you quickly realise that the world is dead and the story/villian encounters are mediocre... you realise its all been nothing but shallow graphics.

God of War, Bloodborne (granted Dark Souls reskin), Breath of the wild (playable on PC) and Mario Odysee are about the only big "AAA" games this gen I've actually felt justified those 2 consoles in my library (switch gets more love for portability) .... that is a TINY list of games, compared to the unique AA games on PC that gave me 100s of hours.

It'l come down to taste. but this forum feels so disconnected from reality.

They talk about how great RDR are God of War are .... yet many more people are playing Fortnite than those 2 games will sell combined in thier lifetime.

Disconnected from modern trends, and reality.

In RDR1, there was no way to tone it down without turning it off entirely, same with GTAV. Can't say the same for the new game, but if it comes out for PC, we don't really need auto aim at all, which is why I'm hoping the rumors hold true.

so butthurt xd

It's getting the same AAA games it would have got in the past, only those games end up also being made for (or ported later) console since it is a quick and easy profit. There is very little reason to keep a game PC only - it isn't in business competition with PS or XB. The exceptions are genres that simply can't work on consoles properly with large changes.

Just like how every XB game ends up as also a PC game because it's quick and easy profit. Exclusives are less and less each gen, there's a handful on PS and Nintendo (if you don't count emulation and PS NOW), and that's about it.

It's getting more games ever than before, artificial boundaries don't matter.

damn... that needs to be stickied.

expanding on this, its worth pointing out that PC gets MORE multiplats than any one console. We get the entire Xbox first party, plus various games that are PS4 + PC only (such as Nioh), or Switch + PC Only (can't think of examples off the top of my head but there are some, and i'm not talking about emulation either).

If you only have one system, PC gives you access to more quality games than any other system, exclusives or not, and that shit is indisputable and is what ultimately matters at the end of the day.

that is likely by far the number 1 reason I play PC. Its because of the game selection.

more over, because of a larger number of games that I play that are not even on console or would not work well using a controller makes the consoles absolutely not realistic for me at all given the game selection they have.

which is why I find these conversations absurd when they start talking about the great games on console and yet that is EXACTLY the main reason why I DONT play consoles because of the game selection

Why does that matter all of a sudden? or are you admitting that 30fps is garbage? if thats the case why even bring up consoles exclusives as an argument against PCs?

You guys like to prance around about how PC gamers are missing out on console exclusives, we point out it will be streamable eventually at the same (garbage) console quality, and then you back peddle by telling us they are not good quality games? make up your mind, are console exclusive great or not?

Hilarious isn't it.

They call us the graphics whores, the elitests, yet the majority of games they brag about are mainly known for their graphics and being "the top graphics games" ... show them a quality game that's based on an art style or just ugly but has excellent gameplay/longevity and its "Non AAA indie trash" .

They had to buy a £320 PS4, then replaced it with a £350 PS4 Pro, just to get games to play better than 1080p 30 FPS (in some cases lower) ... and they complain about playing a handful of games on a streaming service?

What makes it even better is the whole "only x% of PCs can run it at those settings!" while the percentage or actual count of PS4 Pros and Xbox One X's are even lower!

@br0kenrabbit said:

When consoles get military simulations that favor realism over arcade flash and can support a full HOTAS/Rudder/TrackIR setup across three screens you let me know.

You had me until the 3 screen thing. Multiple screens is horrible.

on that note, I play PC and console. Just much prefer console... still I wish that console got more military shooters... that one stings.. lol

I can tell the difference between 30fps and 60.

Is that worth a PC?

No. It honestly doesn’t bother me.

Especially not when next gen consoles are right around the corner.

They are still monstrous, go check out graphic mods. Not that it even matters because you are displaying the same level of ignorance Cows do, you think PC gaming is primarily about graphics, and that is your mistake. You are completely ignoring the many other features PC has to offer over consoles.

Consolites don't have a problem with 30 fps since we aren't graphic whores like you hermits. But it's funny you bring up the streamable argument to claim some ownage but in the meantime those games won't be playable at 60 fps. Typical hermit hypocrites.

Oh well, have fun playing RDR 2 though.... oh wait

@xantufrog: @kali-b1rd: @Dark_sageX:

lol the cows in this thread are shifting goalpost, creating double standards, saying indies are lame despite their huge relevance because they're indie and being absolutely adamant that only mainstream AAA games that aren't from PC centric genres are all that matter. Who cares that the trend setting games and genres are all originating from PC because they're "niche", "indie" and not "AAA". Nevermind that PUBG bulldozed both Horizon Zero Dawn and Breath Of The Wild in both popularity and sales and now developers ranging from AAA to indie are now trying to copy them.

Hiding behind AAA games because that is all they really have to stand on but even then it isn't that much when their AAA exclusives are a small minority of the library and it's been dwindled down to about one or two them being a 90+ game on metacritic a year. Are games that score 7s and 8s really that shitty to you cows? Does 1-3 90+ games a year cancel out the dozens on A and AAE games on PC? What exactly are you guys playing once you finish those games? Do you just stop playing and wait months for the next one to come out? Are games like Rising Storm 2 Vietnam and Battletech not worth even looking at because they don't have a 90+ score? Or should I say 89+ because that's the only way they can count Horizon Zero Dawn as AAAE and basically a 90s game.

Even I acknowledge that the PC AAA scene isn't as strong as it use to be but that hasn't stopped the PC from getting tons of good games. I want the PC AAA scene to comeback because it would destroy the consoles' AAA games scene lineup in not just graphics but in gameplay and innovation. The AAA gaming scene has severely stagnated to the point its mostly the same game but with prettier graphics. It is a fact that console gamers aren't as open to trying unique experiences as PC gamers are and only when these games get popular on PC do console gamers consider giving them a look. Companies are playing it too safe by aiming for the low denominator to get mainstream appeal even Sony is doing it. While I'm not saying their games are bad you can't deny the pattern of most of their 1st party games now being cinematic third person action games with or without stealth elements. It's mostly the same stuff crouch walking through chest high cover/tall foliage and sneak up behind an enemy to press a button and do an execution kill or throwing objects to distract them. They're putting more effort into cutscenes and set pieces than truly unique and groundbreaking gameplay.

For example when I hear people talk about how great The Last Of Us is they always go on about the story and hardly about the gameplay and while I think story does matter in games, gameplay matters more because if it is below average whats the point in even playing might as well just make it into a movie/show. The Last Of Us' gameplay doesn't really standout or do anything new the game even has some noticeable glitches and somewhat sloppy AI but they get a pass for it because of the story and Naughty Dog's reputation. If you try to bring up these obvious and just flaws you get attacked by rabid fanboys. Uncharted series gameplay is average at best and it is masked behind its use of cinematics and set pieces. The "platforming" in those game is a joke the only way you'd fall and die is if you're a complete noob at video games or trying to do it on purpose. Some of the fakeouts with platforms breaking soon as you land/grab on to them are real threat at all because they have a platform right underneath that you will land/grab on if you don't make it in time. Some platforms pretend to start falling apart when you get on them but they only actually fall apart when you get off them. There is no point in shooting away obstacles that are on the rockslides because they don't even do any damage or slow you down when you slide into them. There is no challenge in getting to the next platform you just lean towards it and press a button. The narrow paths you walk on and Drake looks like he is balancing himself as if he is on a tightrope are no real danger either you can't even make him fall off. The platforming in that game is just menial filler to pad out its length.

Meanwhile Thief: The Dark Project a game from the 90s still takes a dump on nearly every other AAA "stealth" game or AAA game that uses "stealth elements". The stealth in that game wasn't just crouching behind an enemy and pressing the execution button. You had to read the map and explore as for some levels/mansions the maps were no longer accurate due to decay of the area falling apart or the psychological aspects warping Garret's perspective, exploration was heavily encouraged and even needed to find clues to help you find the loot and ways around, listening to guards conversations can help you find missing info that wasn't included on the loot like being hidden behind something and paying attention to what kinds of surfaces you walked on as it affected the amount of noise you'd make. Not only that but Thief was able to effectively tell its story through gameplay and not solely rely on cutscenes and walk n talk sections like a lot of other games today rely on. The Ultima Underworld games were also pretty ahead of their time and there has yet to be any game that has truly taken what they did and go beyond it. The only games that have gotten close to what Ultima Underworld series did were Arx Fatalis and The Elder Scrolls series.

Games have to be dumbed down on consoles for their hardware, controllers and because of the players themselves. The Thief 2014 reboot is a prime example of how games get dumbed down for consoles same with Crysis 2. When you dumb down a PC game for consoles you're aren't just lowering graphics you're essentially changing gameplay mechanics so it can be more playable on them and more appealing to console players taste and almost every PC developoer that transitioned to console focused development was trying to chase that COD money on console and it resulted in most of them releasing flops.

This is why I want Star Citizen too succeed because it has not only proven that there is still a profitable market for high end PC games but a market for big budget PC games in less mainstream genres. While a lot of the console crowd will damage control and say that by the time it comes out some other console AAA game will beat it graphics. While that is true that Star Citizen will eventually get surpassed in graphics, chances are that game isn't even doing half the stuff Star Citizen and is likely just another linear or generic static/very limited environmental interaction open world game. Star Citizen will have gameplay that differentiates itself from the others while that console AAA will just more of the same stuff but with prettier graphics.