PC has no AAAA Game in the History of Gaming

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lundy86_4

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#251 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 62017 Posts

On PC: Occasional problems with friendly AI Some minor visual quirks Windows Live account needed to save progress Mouse and keyboard controls aren't nearly as good as Xbox 360 controller Insanely high system requirements. Conclusion: Performance issues prevent this lazy PC port of a superb console game from being the best Grand Theft Auto yet.NerubianWeaver

Uh huh... It wasn't a good port at all. Why are you still trying to prove this? At release everyone was going crazy at the ridiculous system requirements.

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mo0ksi

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#252 mo0ksi
Member since 2007 • 12337 Posts

[QUOTE="NerubianWeaver"][QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

So what does that tell you?

Eggimannd

The user score on the PS3 & 360 version are ranging from 9.0-9.2. It's a fact that the PC version was a terrible port :|

I don't think he gets the concept that PC has higher standards and I feel no matter how many times we say it, he won't get it.

It's not that. It's just that it really is a bad port. Numerous technical issues from objects not loading in the proper time to the entire city just glitching out, at times even disappearing. This is most recent experience I had whenever I loaded up the original GTA of EFLC.

And it's funny too, because at one point the game ran seemlessly for me, but ironically the new patches brought back the problems I had when the game first released. I really don't care now because I played through the GTA4 games extensively, from a PC gamer's perspective, he isn't lying, and this really has nothing to do with the standards of PC gamers. Especially when the majority of negative user reviews mainly have to do with the technical issues. Mods and better graphics are all fine and dandy, because both of them are exceptional with the PC version, but the technical issues remain as present as before.

The TC is a troll, and lots of you took the bait. But he's right about this at least.

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Heil68

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#253 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60815 Posts
Maybe SC2 will be the first!
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The-Mosher

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#254 The-Mosher
Member since 2009 • 1885 Posts

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="Esoteric_Proxy"]Aside from WOW addons PC really hasent got any games this gen. MK-Professor

More exclusives than all of the consoles... What are you talking about? :?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AriQpIFbPoEacGM1b0xxcGVucFQ3OFc4N3BNZmd2QkE&gid=0


PC -AAAe = 12, AAe = 79, Ae = 82
PS3 - AAAe = 8, AAe = 13, Ae = 16
360 -- AAAe = 7, AAe = 14, Ae = 12

AAAe + AAe
PC = 91
PS3 = 21
360 = 21

I love it when you bring that information into the arguments. :P

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lundy86_4

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#255 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 62017 Posts

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="Esoteric_Proxy"]Aside from WOW addons PC really hasent got any games this gen. MK-Professor

More exclusives than all of the consoles... What are you talking about? :?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AriQpIFbPoEacGM1b0xxcGVucFQ3OFc4N3BNZmd2QkE&gid=0


PC -AAAe = 12, AAe = 79, Ae = 82
PS3 - AAAe = 8, AAe = 13, Ae = 16
360 -- AAAe = 7, AAe = 14, Ae = 12

AAAe + AAe
PC = 91
PS3 = 21
360 = 21

Nice. I still don't understand why people still say that PC hasn't had many games this gen, when it has around 200+ exclusives.

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NerubianWeaver

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#256 NerubianWeaver
Member since 2010 • 2046 Posts

[QUOTE="NerubianWeaver"]On PC: Occasional problems with friendly AI Some minor visual quirks Windows Live account needed to save progress Mouse and keyboard controls aren't nearly as good as Xbox 360 controller Insanely high system requirements. Conclusion: Performance issues prevent this lazy PC port of a superb console game from being the best Grand Theft Auto yet.lundy86_4

Uh huh... It wasn't a good port at all. Why are you still trying to prove this? At release everyone was going crazy at the ridiculous system requirements.

GTA IV is badly ported
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lundy86_4

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#257 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 62017 Posts

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="NerubianWeaver"]On PC: Occasional problems with friendly AI Some minor visual quirks Windows Live account needed to save progress Mouse and keyboard controls aren't nearly as good as Xbox 360 controller Insanely high system requirements. Conclusion: Performance issues prevent this lazy PC port of a superb console game from being the best Grand Theft Auto yet.NerubianWeaver

Uh huh... It wasn't a good port at all. Why are you still trying to prove this? At release everyone was going crazy at the ridiculous system requirements.

GTA IV is badly ported

I just said that... Why did you repeat it?

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Dynafrom

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#258 Dynafrom
Member since 2003 • 1027 Posts
[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="NerubianWeaver"]On PC: Occasional problems with friendly AI Some minor visual quirks Windows Live account needed to save progress Mouse and keyboard controls aren't nearly as good as Xbox 360 controller Insanely high system requirements. Conclusion: Performance issues prevent this lazy PC port of a superb console game from being the best Grand Theft Auto yet.NerubianWeaver

Uh huh... It wasn't a good port at all. Why are you still trying to prove this? At release everyone was going crazy at the ridiculous system requirements.

GTA IV is badly ported

It ran like crap on consoles, and looks better on PC yet runs like crap on 2 year old hardware. Notice the trend? I played GTA4 on my rig maxed out and enjoyed it a lot more than the laggy POS ps3 version.
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adamosmaki

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#259 adamosmaki
Member since 2007 • 10718 Posts

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="NerubianWeaver"]

And still the User Score on the PC Game version was 8.0 :|

NerubianWeaver

So what does that tell you?

The user score on the PS3 & 360 version are ranging from 9.0-9.2. It's a fact that the PC version was a terrible port :|

Stay with me here. Same game exact same game but better graphics, mod support, video editor, more players online and of course costs $10 less

Think is that game with an 8800gt and a dual core run at about same fps with the 360 and PS3 but with a bit better graphics settings and higher resolutions. One of the Reasons why it scored lower. Because with that rig it should have been way better than the 360 and PS3 version and not slightly. But think is since then performance with the same rig was increased thanks to patches.

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Sins-of-Mosin

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#260 Sins-of-Mosin
Member since 2008 • 3855 Posts
Honestly, who came up with this A system junk? Anyone could rate any game an A or AA or AAAAAAAAAAAA. It's a worthless system. Actually have it defined by real stats like sales or budget then I'll care.
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ThatGuyFromB4

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#261 ThatGuyFromB4
Member since 2009 • 697 Posts

This whole "PC gamers have higher standards" thing doesn't seem a bit pompous and pretentious to anyone else?

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-Feath-

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#262 -Feath-
Member since 2005 • 1452 Posts

This whole "PC gamers have higher standards" thing doesn't seem a bit pompous and pretentious to anyone else?

ThatGuyFromB4
Are 360 and PS3 users pompous and pretentious because their games are judged at a higher standard than Wii games are?
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ThatGuyFromB4

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#263 ThatGuyFromB4
Member since 2009 • 697 Posts

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

This whole "PC gamers have higher standards" thing doesn't seem a bit pompous and pretentious to anyone else?

-Feath-

Are 360 and PS3 users pompous and pretentious because their games are judged at a higher standard than Wii games are?

I wasn't aware they were...

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agff9

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#264 agff9
Member since 2006 • 514 Posts
PC have some AAAA games.
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blues35301

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#265 blues35301
Member since 2008 • 2680 Posts

Well the console version of gta 4 got a 10 and the pc version is pretty substantially better than it. It got docked because it was such a lazy poorly optimized port that it was incredibly expensive to run it even at an enjoyable, playable framerate (even at console settings which makes zero sense on machines that destroy consoles) But when you have the system for it the game looks like a whole generation better and has a smoother framerate, with better controls.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#266 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
IMO ther eare quite a few 10's.. Even ones that weren't rated as 10s after release.. Some games have completely changed with patches and mods.
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agff9

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#267 agff9
Member since 2006 • 514 Posts
IMO ther eare quite a few 10's.. Even ones that weren't rated as 10s after release.. Some games have completely changed with patches and mods.sSubZerOo
Do mods count ? if so pc have tons of AAAA games.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#268 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]IMO ther eare quite a few 10's.. Even ones that weren't rated as 10s after release.. Some games have completely changed with patches and mods.agff9
Do mods count ? if so pc have tons of AAAA games.

As a pc gamer who bases this on things I actually experience instead of some stupid system war.. I would include it..

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deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab

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#269 deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab
Member since 2008 • 17476 Posts

[QUOTE="agff9"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]IMO ther eare quite a few 10's.. Even ones that weren't rated as 10s after release.. Some games have completely changed with patches and mods.sSubZerOo

Do mods count ? if so pc have tons of AAAA games.

As a pc gamer who bases this on things I actually experience instead of some stupid system war.. I would include it..

Yeah, there are many mods better than actual games.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#270 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="agff9"] Do mods count ? if so pc have tons of AAAA games.ferret-gamer

As a pc gamer who bases this on things I actually experience instead of some stupid system war.. I would include it..

Yeah, there are many mods better than actual games.

Or they fix or completely change parts of the game to make it better.

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NerubianWeaver

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#271 NerubianWeaver
Member since 2010 • 2046 Posts

Honestly, who came up with this A system junk? Anyone could rate any game an A or AA or AAAAAAAAAAAA. It's a worthless system. Actually have it defined by real stats like sales or budget then I'll care.Sins-of-Mosin
It's part of SW. There's a sticky thread on this Board "System Wars Welcome and Information"

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Eggimannd

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#272 Eggimannd
Member since 2009 • 1734 Posts

This whole "PC gamers have higher standards" thing doesn't seem a bit pompous and pretentious to anyone else?

ThatGuyFromB4

It's actually PC GAMES have higher standards. Not gamers (Well I guess that could actually also be true). That a game like Deus Ex could get scored an 82 while it is by far superior to 99% of console AAA games is testament to this.

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NerubianWeaver

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#273 NerubianWeaver
Member since 2010 • 2046 Posts

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

This whole "PC gamers have higher standards" thing doesn't seem a bit pompous and pretentious to anyone else?

Eggimannd

It's actually PC GAMES have higher standards. Not gamers (Well I guess that could actually also be true). That a game like Deus Ex could get scored an 82 while it is by far superior to 99% of console AAA games is testament to this.

Could you give me proof that PC Games have higher standards. Any source or did that phrase came from a game reviewer?

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argetlam00

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#274 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

Its interesting to note that the Xbox never had AAAA in gaming history either.

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NerubianWeaver

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#275 NerubianWeaver
Member since 2010 • 2046 Posts

Its interesting to note that the Xbox never had AAAA in gaming history either.

argetlam00
If you're referring to the 360. GTA IV got AAAA
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argetlam00

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#276 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Its interesting to note that the Xbox never had AAAA in gaming history either.

NerubianWeaver

If you're referring to the 360. GTA IV got AAAA

was referring to exclusives lol. Either way, that game doesn't deserve AAAA, no idea why it got it. Neither does MGS4, but oh well. You gotta live with it.

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Eggimannd

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#277 Eggimannd
Member since 2009 • 1734 Posts

[QUOTE="Eggimannd"]

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

This whole "PC gamers have higher standards" thing doesn't seem a bit pompous and pretentious to anyone else?

NerubianWeaver

It's actually PC GAMES have higher standards. Not gamers (Well I guess that could actually also be true). That a game like Deus Ex could get scored an 82 while it is by far superior to 99% of console AAA games is testament to this.

Could you give me proof that PC Games have higher standards. Any source or did that phrase came from a game reviewer?

"We Rate Games According to the Current Standards of Their Platforms and Genres

Every gaming platform is different, especially in terms of its technical features. However, we believe high-quality gaming experiences are possible on all the gaming platforms that we cover. So we review games against the standards of their respective platforms by implicitly comparing them to other games on that same platform and, to a lesser extent, to other games in that genre. As a result, our ratings of games on different platforms are not intended to be directly compared to one another. However, relative comparisons do apply, so a game that scores poorly is a poor game by any standards, while a game that scores extremely high is an outstanding game by any standards."

That doesn't necessarily prove that PC has higher standards but it shows that PC games aren't rated against console games.

That's why they probably will never give a 10 to a PC game. They are compared to such great games as Deus Ex, Grim Fandango, Half-Life 1/2, Starcraft. For them to give a 10 to a game, it would have to be BETTER than these games which are acclaimed by many to be some of the best of their respective genres.

Not to mention PC is extremely niche. You will never see any real RTS on consoles (don't even try to mention Halo Wars). You will never see games with as much depth as Deus Ex had on consoles. You will never see excellent horror games such as Penumbra on consoles which are by far superior than ANY horror game consoles could ever make. They're just not mainstream enough.

You can think what you want though. But when games such as Deus Ex, Half-Life 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 3 are unable to get higher than a 9.3 or so, you know the standards are higher on PC.

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kdawg88

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#278 kdawg88
Member since 2009 • 2923 Posts

You will never see any real RTS on consoles (don't even try to mention Halo Wars). You will never see games with as much depth as Deus Ex had on consoles. You will never see excellent horror games such as Penumbra on consoles which are by far superior than ANY horror game consoles could ever make. They're just not mainstream enough.

Eggimannd
In other words, they're not likely to make a profit.
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MK-Professor

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#279 MK-Professor
Member since 2009 • 4218 Posts

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

[QUOTE="NerubianWeaver"] The PC version got 9.0(AAA) while the console versions were 10 (AAAA) There's a big difference plus it's a horrible port and badly optimized for the PC version.NerubianWeaver

Scores are opinions...

This are FACTS:

PC version

  • Mods
  • option to use k/b or 360-controller or whatever controller you like.
  • Fast loading
  • video editor
  • online with 32 players
  • Don't require to use the dvd in order to play the game just double-click
  • Better graphics
  • 1920x1200
  • fps 45-70fps
  • high textures
  • large view distance
  • more traffic(casr, pedestrians)
  • better shadows
  • other effects on high etc.


console version

  • no Mods
  • slow loading
  • online with 16 players
  • require to use the dvd in order to play the game
  • Looks unbelievable bleary...
  • 1280x720 – 1152x640(ps3)
  • low fps 15-25fps
  • low textures
  • low view distance
  • low traffic(cars, pedestrians)
  • poor shadows
  • other effects on low etc.

now you see how superior is the pc version

And still the User Score on the PC Game version was 8.0 :|

You keep ignoring the facts.

Also User Score is 8/10 because many consol fanboys vote for 1.0 !!!

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/grandtheftauto4/players.html?tag=player-reviews%3Bheader%3Bmore


if you see the scores, people rate the game with 9.0, 9.5, 10 and 1.0

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Vandalvideo

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#280 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
Could you give me proof that PC Games have higher standards. Any source or did that phrase came from a game reviewer?NerubianWeaver
One need merely look at recent reviews of multiplats or passed multiplats for proof of that. For instance, the recent Call of Duty game was superior on the PC by all possible margins; graphics, sound, etc. All things considered equal, it is a superior game. Yet, despite the superior aspect of the game itself, it scored lower. Why? There are more games on the platform. Game sites rate games based on same genre, same platform. The more games you have to compare to, the higher standards are. Nietzsche spoke about this in Beyond Good and Evil. When you have a market crowded with stuff, it deludes the higher end and everything gets rated downward.
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Eggimannd

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#281 Eggimannd
Member since 2009 • 1734 Posts

[QUOTE="Eggimannd"]

You will never see any real RTS on consoles (don't even try to mention Halo Wars). You will never see games with as much depth as Deus Ex had on consoles. You will never see excellent horror games such as Penumbra on consoles which are by far superior than ANY horror game consoles could ever make. They're just not mainstream enough.

kdawg88

In other words, they're not likely to make a profit.

Not as much as if they go for consoles that's for sure.

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Vandalvideo

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#282 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="kdawg88"] In other words, they're not likely to make a profit.

This is a myth that needs to be destroyed. I swear, System Wars has a horrible grasp of economics. Number of units sold is NOT a good indicator of profitability. It depends on something called marginal revenue. A game which sells 1 million and has a high marginal revenue could be more profitable than a game which sells 10 million copies and has low marginal revenue.
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kdawg88

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#284 kdawg88
Member since 2009 • 2923 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="kdawg88"] In other words, they're not likely to make a profit.

This is a myth that needs to be destroyed. I swear, System Wars has a horrible grasp of economics. Number of units sold is NOT a good indicator of profitability. It depends on something called marginal revenue. A game which sells 1 million and has a high marginal revenue could be more profitable than a game which sells 10 million copies and has low marginal revenue.

EDIT: In other words, they're not likely to make a profit on consoles. I know what profit and revenue are, I did economics for two years at high school.
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devious742

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#285 devious742
Member since 2003 • 3924 Posts

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

Gamespot is probably the only site/mag that never gave a PC game AAAA score,so I clearly don´t care.

NerubianWeaver

Major Gaming Sites excluding Gamespot also didn't gave any AAAA score to a PC Game :|

Eurogamer gave Deus Ex 10/10

Link

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ducati101

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#286 ducati101
Member since 2004 • 1741 Posts
[QUOTE="kdawg88"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="kdawg88"] In other words, they're not likely to make a profit.

This is a myth that needs to be destroyed. I swear, System Wars has a horrible grasp of economics. Number of units sold is NOT a good indicator of profitability. It depends on something called marginal revenue. A game which sells 1 million and has a high marginal revenue could be more profitable than a game which sells 10 million copies and has low marginal revenue.

EDIT: In other words, they're not likely to make a profit on consoles. I know what profit and revenue are, I did economics for two years at high school.

Someone needs to look at the PC software sales! It is higher than any single console.
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Mark36111

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#287 Mark36111
Member since 2004 • 563 Posts

[QUOTE="kdawg88"] In other words, they're not likely to make a profit.Vandalvideo
This is a myth that needs to be destroyed. I swear, System Wars has a horrible grasp of economics. Number of units sold is NOT a good indicator of profitability. It depends on something called marginal revenue. A game which sells 1 million and has a high marginal revenue could be more profitable than a game which sells 10 million copies and has low marginal revenue.

Uh, no. Marginal revenue (MR) is always just going to be the price of the game. This is basically the same for all games, since games generally sell at similar prices. The only way the marginal revenue of a game is going to be higher than any other game is if its price is higher, which does not necessarily lead to higher profits. If you don't understand this, you really shouldn't be telling anyone else how horrible their grasp of economics is.

What matters for profitability is total revenue (TR) and total cost (TC). Profit = TR - TC, where TR = MR x [number of units sold], and TC = total fixed costs (TFC; mostly the cost of developing the game) + total variable costs (TVC; mostly the cost incurred by producing physical copies of the game to retail). Since MR and TVC are relatively constant across games, the only things that cause profitability to vary are: a) units sold, and b) development costs.

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EvanTheGamer

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#288 EvanTheGamer
Member since 2009 • 1550 Posts

PC Gaming doesn't make profit, PC has never been useful throughout the History of Gaming.

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ducati101

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#289 ducati101
Member since 2004 • 1741 Posts

PC Gaming doesn't make profit, PC has never been useful throughout the Hidtory of Gaming.

EvanTheGamer
Over 13 Billion last year says HI!
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lundy86_4

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#290 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 62017 Posts

PC Gaming doesn't make profit, PC has never been useful throughout the History of Gaming.

EvanTheGamer

The market has been increasing year over year, so what are you talking about?

Link

Up 3% in 2009 over 2008.

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devious742

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#291 devious742
Member since 2003 • 3924 Posts

PC Gaming doesn't make profit, PC has never been useful throughout the History of Gaming.

EvanTheGamer

hmm not sure if serious but here you go 8)

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PCs Played More Than Any Console, Reports NPD

PCs are used for gaming more than any console and PlayStation 3 owners are more likely to have multiple consoles, according to the results of the Games Segmentation 2008 report from sales tracking and research firm The NPD Group.

In addition to stating that PlayStation 3 owners are most likely to have other "next-generation" consoles than Wii and Xbox 360 owners, NPD claimed that only 10% of PS2 owners have a PS3. In the realm of portables, 45% of PSP owners have a Nintendo DS, but only 21% of DS owners have a PSP.

Despite the broad declarations, NPD did not provide specific figures for console and PC playtime. Likewise, an exact breakdown showing the ownership patterns of those that have multiple "next-generation" consoles was absent from the release.


BioWare Says the PC is "Made For Games"

BioWare designer Daniel Erickson says the PC is "made for games" and that despite the never-ending predictions of its imminent demise, it's the "natural" platform for BioWare's RPGs.

"There was not a question when we started Old Republic - or any of our games, for that matter - [what the lead format would be]," he said. "There's a reason the lead SKU for Dragon Age was [PC] as well. When we're developing an RPG, it's a natural place to be."

PC Most Popular Format For Euro Gamers

Who's the most popular gaming format, eh? Who is? Who is? Is it you? Is it? Awwwww, yes, you ARE the most popular gaming format! You big, loveable thing you…

Oh, I'm sorry, you've caught me having a chat with my PC. Because my beautiful little boy is the most popular kid in school. According to an MCV report, as I've been saying for the last four hundred million years, the PC is by far the most popular means of playing games in the UK.

ELSPA and ISFE (Interactive Software Federation of Europe) have conducted a survey of British gamers that finds 33% of all sentient gaming humans are playing their chosen distractions on the big grey box.


Valve: Don't Believe The US Press, PC Gaming Is Alive And Well

in an interview with Good Game that slipped under the radar, Valve's business manager, Jason Holtman, said all the talk about PC gaming dieing because of some super-game console comes from "North America press looking at North American reports". "And North America retail reports don't have Europe in them, and they don't have online PCs on them, they don't have micro-transactions PCs in it. Steam has 20 million users right now and you've got figures like the Cartner Group tells us there's 260 million online PC gamers in the world

Valve: PC Gaming Alive and Well, But Developers Off Their Game

Valve's marketing vice president and frequent spokesman, Doug Lombardi, laughed off the idea that PC gaming is dying, but said other developers need to get with the program.

"I mean, I think, we sort of laugh at it," Lombardi said of increasingly high-pitched concerns over the viability of PC gaming in an interview with Shacknews.com

"Because we've been wildly successful - we're very fortunate, you know. Our games have all done really, really well, Steam has taken off and become this whole other business for us, Valve has never been in better shape - and yet everybody is talking about how in the PC world, the sky is falling," said Lombardi.

Lombardi pointed out that the sales data often cited to buttress claims of a dying PC industry do not include MMOG subscribers, Steam users, other customers of digital download services, or even other countries.

"NPD, god love 'em, they release a U.S. retail sales report, and people take that and say that's the world picture. And it's just not true...if people were looking at WoW's subscriptions alone and factoring it in, looking at Steam sales and factoring it in...Just look at what Popcap's doing - Bejeweled and Peggle and all this stuff - they're not in that NPD data."

Lombardi also said part of the brouhaha was effective PR by console makers and the absence of anything similar on the PC front.

"It is absolutely a perception problem. I mean one of the things that happens is - Microsoft has an army of PR people that work for Microsoft. They have at least two agencies that are additional armies. Nintendo I'm not as familiar with their PR outline, but I'm sure it's similar. Sony is similar. The PC has nobody," he said.

At the same time, Lombardi blasted developers for not taking accurate stock of what computers gamers have, and for aiming only at the high-end. He contrasted this with his own company, which conducts surveys twice a year to gauge the horsepower of gamers' computers.

"You know, it's hard to be able to have games that scale, and to write performance on the high end, and write performance on the bottom end, but you know, winning in any industry means some hard work, and there's a certain level of hard work that developers have to take responsibility for," he observed.

BioWare: PC gaming is in fine health

More PC players and more money being generated "than ever before"


The CEO of BioWare has told us that, contrary to numerous 'PC gaming is dying' claims, the sector's in fine health on a number of fronts.


I think there are more people playing PC games and more dollars being spent on the PC space than ever before, but it's taking a different form," Ray Muzyka said in a recent interview.


Developer Stardock Says Piracy Isn't Killing PC Gaming


There have been a lot of recent talks about the decline of PC gaming. Development studios are closing down, and companies are analysing the woes of the industry. One publisher, however, thinks it naïve to blame piracy for the decline of PC gaming sales. Stardock's latest, a space-based real-time strategy game called Sins of a Solar Empire, has sold roughly 200,000 copies since its release last month. So how has Stardock achieved success?

According to Brad Wardell, president and CEO of Stardock, (via the Sins of a Solar Empire forum) piracy is an issue, but he doesn't think it should be used as a scapegoat when a game doesn't sell. Wardwell states that there is a problem with the way that game developers currently look at the PC install base. "When you develop for a market, you don't go by the user base. You go by the potential customer base. That's what most software companies do. They base what they want to create on the size of the market they're developing for. But not PC game developers. PC game developers seem to focus more on the 'cool' factor. What game can they make that will get them glory with the game magazines and gaming websites and hard core gamers? These days, it seems like game developers want to be like rock stars more than businessmen," Wardell wrote.

Rather than trying to craft a game to get the most media coverage, Wardell approaches the situation from a financial point of view. "When I make a game, I focus on making games that I think will be the most profitable… when it comes time to make a game, I don't have a hard time thinking of a game I'd like to play. The hard part is coming up with a game that we can actually make that will be profitable. And that means looking at the market as a business not about trying to be 'cool'."

Following this approach, Wardell cites Sins of a Solar Empire's success. The game has received great critical praise, in addition to having sold nearly 200,000 copies in its first month; an amazing feat for a comparatively small budgeted title. Wardell cites the lack of copy protection on Sins of a Solar Empire as one of the myth busters to piracy killing PC gaming.

Study: PC Software Sales Up 3% To $13.1 Billion In 2009


The PC Gaming Alliance (PCGA), a non-profit PC gaming advocacy group, revealed a new research study indicating that PC gaming software revenues worldwide reached $13.1 billion in 2009, a 3 percent increase over the previous year.

That increase came in spite of decreased retail boxed sales for PC games, which suffered the "biggest downturn" out of all the sales categories PCGA tracked and now accounts for less than 20 percent of total software revenue for the year.

Digital distribution growth also largely offset losses in other PC gaming software categories. In its surveys of PC gamers in North America and Europe, the report found that 70 percent of respondents have purchased a full game online.

"The most notable trend in recent years has been the movement to digital distribution and payment for subscriptions, and the growing popularity with consumers of online games as a service," says PCGA president and Intel director Randy Stude.


Tales of PC gaming's death have been greatly exaggerated

The "death of PC gaming" has become reliable column and blog fodder for tech journalists. Perhaps it stems from lingering bitterness over time wasted editing Warcraft batch files in DOS 6.0. Regardless, you shouldn't take the idea seriously.

To prove it, we won't even lean on that most tempting pillar of PC gaming, the 12 million-strong World of Warcraft monthly subscription-paying player base. Instead we'll point to a report by Rock, Paper, Shotgun's Kieron Gillen from Britain's Develop 09 conference, specifically from a presentation on digital distribution.

Chart Track also estimated that digital distribution makes up 22 percent of the $13 billion global PC market, which boils down to $2.86 billion. If global digital distribution sales follow the same growth pattern that Chart Track projects for Steam for 2009, worldwide digital game sales will climb by $2.23 billion. That brings the global digital from from $2.86 billion in 2008 to almost $5.1 billion for 2009.

Now let's look at retail, in this case we'll use NPD's $701 million in U.S retail sales. Globally, Chart Track says PC retail sales represent 24 percent of the $13 billion pie, or $3.12 billion. That means NPD's $701 million figure represents approximately 23 percent of the worldwide retail market in 2008.

To recap our estimates for 2009:

* Global retail PC game sales: $2.37 billion (23% decrease)
* Global digital PC game sales: $5.09 billion (78% increase)
* Global in-game PC ad sales: $1.32 billion (26.8% increase)
* Global subscription and microtransactions: >$5.98 billion (unknown % increase)
* Total 2009 global PC game sales: $14.76 billion-plus (minimum 13.5% increase)

Blizzard: PC gaming is not dying out, BlizzCon proves it

In an interview with Gamasutra, Kevin Martens, Blizzard Lead Content Designer, revealed his opinion on the "PC gaming is dead" mentality that has been of much discussion lately. Martens feels that Blizzard counteracts this best by keeping system requirements low while making sure its games are still marketable.

"The death knell of PC has risen and fallen over the years, and we keep releasing PC games, and they keep doing incredibly well," said Martens. "I think that there is a market out there for PC games. The latest consoles are great; it's easy to get the game running and all that. They're useful.

"But everyone has a PC, and we try to keep our system requirements down as low as possible. That's one of the ways that we can make sure to appeal to enough people. Some of the really cutting edge games that come out for PC require a brand new video card and probably more RAM at least, if not a new CPU as well. That's really rare with Blizzard games. I think that's one of the reasons we still keep doing well.

"The best evidence that the PC market is not actually dying is the 20,000 people that showed up this year at Blizzcon, and the fact that those tickets sold out in one minute flat.

"That doesn't seem to me, that it's really good evidence, of a platform with a problem."


Sega: PC sales are stronger than reported

Growing digital sales mean that the charts don't tell the full PC games story

Publishing giant Sega has defended PC gaming, calling it a strong and vital market for the games industry.

Physical retail sales of PC games are continuing to slide in 2010, but Sega's UK MD John Clark says that isn't a fair representation of the market – with digital sales now accounting for a large proportion of revenue.

"The PC market is third in terms of its year-on-year performance with a decline of 26 per cent, but this doesn't really reflect the full picture," said Clark.

"The PC digital download business is now a viable sector but somewhat invisible as it's not yet covered by Chart-Track. The PC market overall is actually performing much better than is currently reported and remains a vital and strong sector to be involved in."

Sega was the second biggest UK PC publisher in 2009, with 12 per cent share of the market.

Meanwhile, year-to-date in 2010 the company has a 12.8 per cent share of the PC games sector. This was boosted by the strong performance last month of Aliens vs Predator, Napoleon: Total War, as well as continued sales of Football Manager 2010.

"Last month's PC chart illustrates Sega's position within this sector," added Clark.

"Napoleon: Total War, Football Manager 2010 and Aliens vs Predator are three different **** of game from three different genres. They can all drive a strong, community fan base with the ability to consistently deliver endless hours of gameplay. Incidentally, they are all developed in the UK.

"For 2009, Sega was ranked the second biggest PC publisher in the market. In 2010 year-to-date, we are once again ranked second. Long may it continue."

PC receives high-profile backing from EA

Whilst High Street sales of PC software can paint a picture of decline, the un-monitored online revenues coming from the format are drastically increasing – a fact that helped EA enjoy a strong performance on the format last year.

VG247 points out that EA released 32 PC games in its last fiscal year – far ahead of Xbox 360 (26), PS3 (23), DS (22), Wii (21), PS2 (14), PSP (8) and Xbox (1).

Revenues from EA's digital services hit $429m – up 27 per cent compared to the same period the year before.

"This is a big year for us [on PC]," said EA CFO Eric Brown. "The online part of our business is growing as much as 60 percent year over year.

"In terms of distribution, the way we look at a lot what's happening in the future is, we've got probably a billion PCs out there in the world. Very rapidly the PC is becoming the largest gaming platform in the world, just not in a packaged-good product."

Empire: Total War Breaks U.K. Sales Records

Empire: Total War has taken the number one sales spot in the U.K., a first for the franchise:

The triumph of Sega's Empire: Total War at the top of the ELSPA GfK-ChartTrack All Formats Top 40 yesterday marks the most successful debut in the history of the Total War series.

Week one sales of the title were nearly double those of both Rome: Total War and Medieval II: Total War, and is the first in the series' to claim the Top 40 top spot. It also becomes the first PC exclusive title to reach the top since Football Manager 2008 in October 2007 – another Sega PC title.

Empire: Total War's surge comes at the cost of Killzone 2, with sales of Sony's title dipping 58 per cent compared to its first week. A similar drop in sales was suffered by Microsoft's Halo Wars (-54 per cent), which slipped to fourth position, and Capcom's Street Fighter IV (-59 per cent).

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Vandalvideo

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#292 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="kdawg88"] EDIT: In other words, they're not likely to make a profit on consoles. I know what profit and revenue are, I did economics for two years at high school.

Not necessarily. It depends on the initial investment, the marginal revenue, marginal cost, marginal demand, etc. Nothing you've put forth thus far necessitates that they won't make a profit.
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#293 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
Uh, no. Marginal revenue (MR) is always just going to be the price of the game. This is basically the same for all games, since games generally sell at similar prices. The only way the marginal revenue of a game is going to be higher than any other game is if its price is higher, which does not necessarily lead to higher profits. If you don't understand this, you really shouldn't be telling anyone else how horrible their grasp of economics is.What matters for profitability is total revenue (TR) and total cost (TC). Profit = TR - TC, where TR = MR x [number of units sold], and TC = total fixed costs (TFC; mostly the cost of developing the game) + total variable costs (TVC; mostly the cost incurred by producing physical copies of the game to retail). Since MR and TVC are relatively constant across games, the only things that cause profitability to vary are: a) units sold, and b) development costs.Mark36111
Marginal revenue v. marginal cost can be just as predictive as total revenue v. total cost scale, especially when you have sales figures. You can compute the exact same profit from both schemes with the same data. You've just made a non-starter argument. Marginal revenue is just as indicative if you know how many units sold as total revenue. Also, marginal revenue may be higher if the cost to make the game is lower and they demand the same market price. They could earn more potential money that way. If you have a game which requires LESS to make, which most PC games do and you sell it as the same market price as the average console game, then the game could potentially end up earning more even if it sales drastically lower prices. At the end of the day, the only things that matter in the equation are; How much you sell each individual product for v. the cost it takes to make each individual product, multiplied by how many copies of the product you sale.
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Mark36111

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#294 Mark36111
Member since 2004 • 563 Posts

[QUOTE="Mark36111"]Uh, no. Marginal revenue (MR) is always just going to be the price of the game. This is basically the same for all games, since games generally sell at similar prices. The only way the marginal revenue of a game is going to be higher than any other game is if its price is higher, which does not necessarily lead to higher profits. If you don't understand this, you really shouldn't be telling anyone else how horrible their grasp of economics is.What matters for profitability is total revenue (TR) and total cost (TC). Profit = TR - TC, where TR = MR x [number of units sold], and TC = total fixed costs (TFC; mostly the cost of developing the game) + total variable costs (TVC; mostly the cost incurred by producing physical copies of the game to retail). Since MR and TVC are relatively constant across games, the only things that cause profitability to vary are: a) units sold, and b) development costs.Vandalvideo
Marginal revenue v. marginal cost can be just as predictive as total revenue v. total cost scale, especially when you have sales figures. You can compute the exact same profit from both schemes with the same data. You've just made a non-starter argument.

You obviously don't even know what marginal revenue or marginal cost are. The word "marginal revenue" means the additional revenue from the next unit sold. Total revenue is the sum of the marginal revenues of every unit sold. Marginal revenue is useless in calculating profit without knowing how many units were sold. You must know total revenue to calculate profit, and marginal revenue is only half of that equation.

Marginal revenue is just as indicative if you know how many units sold as total revenue.

Ugh. Let's go over this once more. Unit sales numbers are used in conjunction with marginal revenue to calculate total revenue. Marginal revenue is not indicative of anything by itself. You use it to calculate total revenue, which is what matters.

Also, marginal revenue may be higher if the cost to make the game is lower and they demand the same market price.

Costs have exactly no effect on revenue. They're completely separate things, and variance in one does not cause variance in the other. Have you ever even taken an economics course?

They could earn more potential money that way. If you have a game which requires LESS to make, which most PC games do and you sell it as the same market price as the average console game, then the game could potentially end up earning more even if it sales drastically lower prices.

Yes, lower costs, holding all else constant, cause profit to increase. Of course, this has nothing to do with your claim that marginal revenue determines profit.

At the end of the day, the only things that matter in the equation are; How much you sell each individual product for v. the cost it takes to make each individual product, multiplied by how many copies of the product you sale.

It seems you're agreeing now that profit = TR - TC, rather than some function of marginal revenue alone. Good. That's correct.

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#295 kdawg88
Member since 2009 • 2923 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="kdawg88"] EDIT: In other words, they're not likely to make a profit on consoles. I know what profit and revenue are, I did economics for two years at high school.

Not necessarily. It depends on the initial investment, the marginal revenue, marginal cost, marginal demand, etc. Nothing you've put forth thus far necessitates that they won't make a profit.

Stop digressing, man, you know what I'm saying: I'm SAYING that games for consoles are often funded for their mass appeal; complex simulators and strategy games in practice only appeal to a select few, and that's why they're not made for consoles. This has a lot less to do with economic models than you think.
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FIipMode

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#296 FIipMode
Member since 2009 • 10850 Posts

Want a lot of posts in your thread? Bash the PC :P

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Vandalvideo

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#297 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
You obviously don't even know what marginal revenue or marginal cost are. The word "marginal revenue" means the additional revenue from the next unit sold. Total revenue is the sum of the marginal revenues of every unit sold. Marginal revenue is useless in calculating profit without knowing how many units were sold. You must know total revenue to calculate profit, and marginal revenue is only half of that equation.Mark36111
Read my posts before responding next time. The clause "if yo know how many units sold" is central in the argument which I am putting forth. At least take the time to read over the arguments before stating this type of stuff.

Ugh. Let's go over this once more. Unit sales numbers are used in conjunction with marginal revenue to calculate total revenue. Marginal revenue is not indicative of anything by itself. You use it to calculate total revenue, which is what matters.

I never said that marginal revenue is indicative of anything itself. Go back and read the original claims that I put forth. I merely said that units sold is a poor indicator. If anything it is an indicator of absolutely nothing. The central thing you need to know is marginal cost v. marginal revenue. Why? Because without profit margins you simply do not know what type of impact number of units sold will actually have. The reason I begin discussing marginal revenue is to show the drastic oversimplification of the process and the falsifiable stress people place on units sold which means absolutely nothing.

Costs have exactly no effect on revenue. They're completely separate things, and variance in one does not cause variance in the other. Have you ever even taken an economics course?

Costs have effects on profit. Revenue is merely the amount of money accrued through the process of transaction. Costs, on the other hand, can deprecate the amount of profit if it is too high, or it can greatly increase the amount of profit if it is low. You are misreading my statements. I am saying that it is important to know both in this equation. Costs, if anything, is the most important. Why? Because without cost units sold and revenue mean absolutely, positively nothing.

Yes, lower costs, holding all else constant, cause profit to increase. Of course, this has nothing to do with your claim that marginal revenue determines profit.

You're taking the original post out of context. When I say that the equation depends on marginal revenue, what I'm saying is that you need to take into consideration revenue v. cost to calculate profit. Units sold mean absolutely, positively NOTHING in the grand scheme of things if you don't take into consideration marginal revenue. Does that mean I'm saying marginal revenue is the only variable? No. Merely one that needs to be taken into consideration in the grand scheme of things.

It seems you're agreeing now that profit = TR - TC, rather than some function of marginal revenue alone. Good. That's correct.

I never disagreed with that assertion in the first place. Merely you placing more importance on TR - TC is a non-starter argument, because you can get the same equation knowing marginal revenue v. marginal cost X units sold; which is just another equation to get to profit. There are two equations here, both are correct; P = Units sold(MR-MC) P = TR - TC Its just a short hand version. The entire argument has been about the stress placed by the gaming community on units sold, which honestly doesn't mean much. All that really matters is MR v. MC or TR v. TC. Cost being the primary factor here. Cost being lower for these types of games. Meaning, units sold means CRAP.
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#298 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="kdawg88"] Stop digressing, man, you know what I'm saying: I'm SAYING that games for consoles are often funded for their mass appeal; complex simulators and strategy games in practice only appeal to a select few, and that's why they're not made for consoles. This has a lot less to do with economic models than you think.

Again; assumption: complex simulations and strategy games do not require a significant less amount of investment or cost in order to make, such to the extent where the units sold do not make an appreciable impact on the total revenue. That, you have to prove. Strategies and simulators COULD earn more than these other games.
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#299 Cruxis27
Member since 2006 • 2057 Posts

It's because console games are so s****y knowadays that when an above average game does come out it gets mad praise.

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#300 TacticalDesire
Member since 2010 • 10713 Posts

Pretty much what alot of other people said PC games have higher standards just like when a movie is reviewed it is almost unheard of to get an 8 or a 9. Now PC reviewers don't withhold high scores quite as much as top notch movie reviewers, but they still do more than console reviewers for the most part at least. And I know I'm about to get flamed for saying so, but I think great Wii games tend to get higher scores than great PS3 or Xbox 360 games, simply because they are a bit rarer.