PC Sales > Console Sales in US

Take out MMO's, Casual gaming, and FarmVille and you're left with - take a guess - 19%. In contrast to consoles' 49%, that's nothing. Counting GAMES, you know, the ones that matter.64316431

Take out MMO's, Casual gaming, and FarmVille and you're left with - take a guess - 19%. In contrast to consoles' 49%, that's nothing. Counting GAMES, you know, the ones that matter.64316431

Isn't it convenient for his argument that he elected himself in charge of what games matter? Also yet again, someone who's ignoring that the console percentage accounts for several competitor platforms. Last I checked Microsoft loses out when Sony does well, they don't benefit from each others success.

If we are just going to make convenient declarations, I declare console 1st party titles don't count. The reason being we are judging the success/popularity of a platform, therefore artificial exclusives that are only exclusive because the 1st party paid for them are not a representation of console popularity; and hence void in comparisons.

Will you look at that, if you only account for games that choose to remain exclusive, PC mops the floor with consoles! Got to love rationalizing things in your favour. Hang on, my bad, PC has the most exclusives; even if you account for the console first party.

Wow console only gamers are in damage control mode. They see the evidence but are still trying to attack hermits. The pc is dead,there are no games and the games that hermits have don't sell :lol:

The level of ignorance consolites have toward pc gaming is titanic.

PC gaming is the most varied platform out there, in terms of who plays and the options they have to play. Forget SW's little meta game for a minute. No one is going to review social site gaming on here. The fact is every aspect of the PC market is growing (except outdated retail) while the console market has dramatically shrunk over the last year.blue_hazy_basic

Yes it is and I would agree with that completely.

But this thread is about $ Revenue as you said yourself. And there are a bunch of people who believe the $ Revenue associated with casual gaming portals and social networking games should be counted in the PC gaming camp and that this is further evidence of the PC market growing. I can live with that in the very short term.

Anything beyond the short term it is likely the opposite. Most of that $ Revenue from gaming portals and social networking is going to migrate to channels that use other devices, not PCs. Indeed, a lot of that money is going to find its way to people who are going to be trying to kill the traditional PC centric model. Fortunately, capitalism is not a zero sum game and neither console gaming nor PC gaming is just going to die out right away, and in the case of PC gaming perhaps never. But, we are going to shift to mobility in a huge way over the next decade. The first to fall will be dedicated gaming handhelds.

I'm a console gamer. If you could point out a statement I've made that indicates that the PC is dead, or even that the numbers posted in this thread don't accurately reflect the current state of the market, that would be great. lowe0

Why do you always do this :?

This thread is full of console gamers downplaying these figures, declaring in their infinite wisdom that certain games on PC don't count; just so they could rationalize that consoles > PC despite that US chart.

Not a word of condemnation from you regarding their behaviour.

However someone makes a open statement (directed at a group, not a individual) directed at the console gamers that are downplaying this thread, and you take personal offense. Have you been criticising PC gaming and downplaying that chart in this thread? No. So it is not directed at you.

But you always do this, you always take it personally and try to make PC gamers look bad for having said it. Ignoring all the insults and downplaying and bashing coming from the console side in this thread.

[QUOTE="64316431"]Take out MMO's, Casual gaming, and FarmVille and you're left with - take a guess - 19%. In contrast to consoles' 49%, that's nothing. Counting GAMES, you know, the ones that matter.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="lowe0"]I'm a console gamer. If you could point out a statement I've made that indicates that the PC is dead, or even that the numbers posted in this thread don't accurately reflect the current state of the market, that would be great. AnnoyedDragon

Why do you always do this :?

This thread is full of console gamers downplaying these figures, declaring in their infinite wisdom that certain games on PC don't count; just so they could rationalize that consoles > PC despite that US chart.

Not a word of condemnation from you regarding their behaviour.

However someone makes a open statement (directed at a group, not a individual) directed at the console gamers that are downplaying this thread, and you take personal offense. Have you been criticising PC gaming and downplaying that chart in this thread? No. So it is not directed at you.

But you always do this, you always take it personally and try to make PC gamers look bad for having said it. Ignoring all the insults and downplaying and bashing coming from the console side in this thread.

Funny, he said "console only gamer" and "consolite". Am I in those two categories? That's a yes or no question, by the way.

lowe0

The difference between you and me, is when someone refers to PC gamers; and references a behaviour I do not practice, I know they are not referring to me. You on the other hand have elected yourself representative of all console gamers, with any comment made towards them being taken as personal offense.

I mean for buggers sake, you haven't even been taking part in this thread. That was your very first post in here; and you asked them to look through your none existent previous posts. You took offense from a criticism of console gamers in this thread; when you haven't even been participating in this thread. That you have chosen to criticise PC gamers for something that wasn't even meant for you, while ignoring the behaviour of your fellow console gamers that provoked such a comment, speaks volumes.

And the sad thing is, previous experience in mind, I'm likely to get moderated just for pointing this out.

[QUOTE="lowe0"]

Funny, he said "console only gamer" and "consolite". Am I in those two categories? That's a yes or no question, by the way.

The difference between you and me, is when someone refers to PC gamers; and references a behaviour I do not practice, I know they are not referring to me. You on the other hand have elected yourself representative of all console gamers, with any comment made towards them being taken as personal offense.

I mean for buggers sake, you haven't even been taking part in this thread. That was your very first post in here; and you asked them to look through your none existent previous posts. You took offense from a criticism of console gamers in this thread; when you haven't even been participating in this thread. That you have chosen to criticise PC gamers for something that wasn't even meant for you, while ignoring the behaviour of your fellow console gamers that provoked such a comment, speaks volumes.

And the sad thing is, previous experience in mind, I'm likely to get moderated just for pointing this out.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="64316431"]Take out MMO's, Casual gaming, and FarmVille and you're left with - take a guess - 19%. In contrast to consoles' 49%, that's nothing. Counting GAMES, you know, the ones that matter.64316431

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] PC gaming is the most varied platform out there, in terms of who plays and the options they have to play. Forget SW's little meta game for a minute. No one is going to review social site gaming on here. The fact is every aspect of the PC market is growing (except outdated retail) while the console market has dramatically shrunk over the last year.SUD123456

Yes it is and I would agree with that completely.

But this thread is about $ Revenue as you said yourself. And there are a bunch of people who believe the $ Revenue associated with casual gaming portals and social networking games should be counted in the PC gaming camp and that this is further evidence of the PC market growing. I can live with that in the very short term.

Anything beyond the short term it is likely the opposite. Most of that $ Revenue from gaming portals and social networking is going to migrate to channels that use other devices, not PCs. Indeed, a lot of that money is going to find its way to people who are going to be trying to kill the traditional PC centric model. Fortunately, capitalism is not a zero sum game and neither console gaming nor PC gaming is just going to die out right away, and in the case of PC gaming perhaps never. But, we are going to shift to mobility in a huge way over the next decade. The first to fall will be dedicated gaming handhelds.

[QUOTE="64316431"]Take out MMO's, Casual gaming, and FarmVille and you're left with - take a guess - 19%. In contrast to consoles' 49%, that's nothing. Counting GAMES, you know, the ones that matter.AnnoyedDragon

Isn't it convenient for his argument that he elected himself in charge of what games matter? Also yet again, someone who's ignoring that the console percentage accounts for several competitor platforms. Last I checked Microsoft loses out when Sony does well, they don't benefit from each others success.

If we are just going to make convenient declarations, I declare console 1st party titles don't count. The reason being we are judging the success/popularity of a platform, therefore artificial exclusives that are only exclusive because the 1st party paid for them are not a representation of console popularity; and hence void in comparisons.

Will you look at that, if you only account for games that choose to remain exclusive, PC mops the floor with consoles! Got to love rationalizing things in your favour. Hang on, my bad, PC has the most exclusives; even if you account for the console first party.

you're welcome to make your own counter video. i'm sure it will get dozens of hits.clone01

I'm not sure why you are saying that :?

"Make your own counter video" suggests that a video was being used at some point and that I should make my own one, which none were. They offered a text comment, I offered my own text response.

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"][QUOTE="SakusEnvoy"] According to this very research firm that everyone seems to have accepted, console software revenue make up a larger percentage of overall game sales in countries such as the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Belgium and France than in the United States. (Didn't you guys scroll down and see those other charts?)

I find it funny people call the United States console land. The real console land is Japan. That's where all the consoles but 1 originate from, and that's a place where the PC market is very, very weak.

FatCatPatRat

You do realise the overwhelming amount of companies that combine to make what you call PC gaming? No one company owns PC gaming, just like no one company owns console gaming, so ya know, what you just said is silly.

[QUOTE="lowe0"]To start with, I didn't ask, nor have I ever asked, for you to be moderated. I don't expect other people to step in for me; I prefer to deal with it myself. That said: that's a lot of words for answering a yes or no question. And no, he didn't say "in this thread".AnnoyedDragon

Note I said I'm likely to get moderated, I didn't specifically say you would report me.

And you are doing it again...

He didn't have to specifically say in this thread, because he was referring to the behaviour of console gamers being witnessed in this thread. Hell, the post being in this thread should say that. This is what you do, I see it time and time again. You take what PC gamers say out of context by directing them specifically at you, even though the comment being made may not even be directed specifically at you, and then demand for it to be justified.

Of course it cannot be justified, it doesn't apply to your behaviour because you weren't the one doing it, which I think is the point. That you asked for them to identity where you expressed this behaviour, when you haven't even been taking part in this thread, really does say it all.

Just ignore him.. thats his persona.. he always comes in to vilify pc gamers even though its the console gamers in this thread downplaying and making ridiculous statements when the facts are right in front of them

devious742

I prefer the console gamers in this thread, at least their attempts to bash PC are out there in the open. He stalks threads waiting for someone to make just the right comment, and then comes in to take it out of context; and make PC gamers look bad.

[QUOTE="lowe0"]

Note I said I'm likely to get moderated, I didn't specifically say you would report me.

And you are doing it again...

He didn't have to specifically say in this thread, because he was referring to the behaviour of console gamers being witnessed in this thread. Hell, the post being in this thread should say that. This is what you do, I see it time and time again. You take what PC gamers say out of context by directing them specifically at you, even though the comment being made may not even be directed specifically at you, and then demand for it to be justified.

Of course it cannot be justified, it doesn't apply to your behaviour because you weren't the one doing it, which I think is the point. That you asked for them to identity where you expressed this behaviour, when you haven't even been taking part in this thread, really does say it all.

[QUOTE="devious742"]

Just ignore him.. thats his persona.. he always comes in to vilify pc gamers even though its the console gamers in this thread downplaying and making ridiculous statements when the facts are right in front of them

I prefer the console gamers in this thread, at least their attempts to bash PC are out there in the open. He stalks threads waiting for someone to make just the right comment, and then comes in to take it out of context; and make PC gamers look bad.

Again, that's a lot of words for a yes or no question. Also, who says I'm out to bash the PC? It's a good platform that millions of people enjoy gaming on. I have no problem with that.lowe0

In other news, neither console nor computer gamming is going anywhere.

[QUOTE="FatCatPatRat"]

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"] Yeah but then again in Germany, Easter Europe and Korea and China pc gaming is much bigger ( in the chart pc gaming in Germany is 60% ). Also the console number is divided by 5 platforms and people tend to ignore this as if MS,Sony and Nintendo share their stocks Also from the chart i think the console land here is UKadamosmaki

You do realise the overwhelming amount of companies that combine to make what you call PC gaming? No one company owns PC gaming, just like no one company owns console gaming, so ya know, what you just said is silly.

The basis of your argument was that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo compete in the console market therefore they should be separated.

If you want to talk single platforms, how can the PC possibly be considered a single platform when there are so many different companies making so many different computers; when people can customise and make their own damn PCs to suit their gaming needs, which consoles do not do yet you want to claim it as one single platform? (keep in mind your comments about splitting the big three up)

well, you seem to have quite a few thoughts on the matter, i just figured someone of your superior intellect and almost superhuman debate skills could give these hooligans what-for. i mean, after all, this is tremendously serious business. and as you've been a tireless crusader here on system wars to make everyone aware of your pro-pc stance, a video would be the next logical step in advancing an agenda, wouldn't you think?clone01

In other words you are using a "gaming is serious business" labelling attempt to discredit what I have been saying; without actually offering a counter argument.

This is System Wars, its purpose is to house platform Vs platform debate; in order to keep it away from the other sections. I am not going to apologise for using this section for its intended purpose. You however, by attempting to discourage platform Vs platform debate, are going off topic.

If you don't like it, there are plenty of alternative sections for you to browse. SW does more than simply keep this sort of debate in, it prevents people from trying to discourage this sort of debate out.

In other news, neither console nor computer gamming is going anywhere.

DarkGamer007

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="clone01"]you're welcome to make your own counter video. i'm sure it will get dozens of hits.clone01

I'm not sure why you are saying that :?

"Make my own counter video" suggests that a video was being used at some point and that I should make my own one, which none were. They offered a text comment, I offered my own text response.

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

In other news, neither console nor computer gamming is going anywhere.

clone01

Im not really sure why this is such a suprise anyway. The userbase for PCs is like a bagillion times bigger than consoles. I mean I can play PvZ on my computer at work.

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"][QUOTE="FatCatPatRat"]

You do realise the overwhelming amount of companies that combine to make what you call PC gaming? No one company owns PC gaming, just like no one company owns console gaming, so ya know, what you just said is silly.

FatCatPatRat

The basis of your argument was that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo compete in the console market therefore they should be separated.

If you want to talk single platforms, how can the PC possibly be considered a single platform when there are so many different companies making so many different computers; when people can customise and make their own damn PCs to suit their gaming needs, which consoles do not do yet you want to claim it as one single platform? (keep in mind your comments about splitting the big three up)

I'm not sure what I've done to offend you. I've simply suggested a more effective means to spread a message of PC gaming. I'm sure a youtube video would generate at least 40 views. I mean, as captivating and informative as your blogs and posts are, I can only imagine the presentation in a visual medium. I'm sure it would change the way people think. I mean, I've learned so much from you that I never could have from spending 5 minutes on Google. You sir are truly an inspiration to SW, and I'm sure that PC gamers look to you as a role model and leader.clone01

I recommend that you cease pushing this thread further off topic. Your attempts to patronize me do not discredit my arguments, if you wish to do that; try a counter argument.

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

I'm not sure why you are saying that :?

"Make my own counter video" suggests that a video was being used at some point and that I should make my own one, which none were. They offered a text comment, I offered my own text response.

i love how all of a sudden pc kids are embracing "angry birds" just to skew a victory.

[QUOTE="clone01"]I'm not sure what I've done to offend you. I've simply suggested a more effective means to spread a message of PC gaming. I'm sure a youtube video would generate at least 40 views. I mean, as captivating and informative as your blogs and posts are, I can only imagine the presentation in a visual medium. I'm sure it would change the way people think. I mean, I've learned so much from you that I never could have from spending 5 minutes on Google. You sir are truly an inspiration to SW, and I'm sure that PC gamers look to you as a role model and leader.AnnoyedDragon

I recommend that you cease pushing this thread further off topic. Your attempts to patronize me do not discredit my arguments, if you wish to do that; try a counter argument.

i love how all of a sudden pc kids are embracing "angry birds" just to skew a victory.

fadersdream

Wha?

how was i mocking him? i simply suggested that the production of a video would be highly effective in getting a message out. and when did i damage control? i've not criticized or predicted the end of pc gaming in any way, shape, or form.clone01

I wasn't talking about you... also..how can I take you serious when you were clearly patronizing him...heck you followed up with this comment

he thinks that everyone is out to get the pc. i once had the audacity to criticize crysis...wow, that started 4 pages of nonsense.clone01

[QUOTE="clone01"]how was i mocking him? i simply suggested that the production of a video would be highly effective in getting a message out. and when did i damage control? i've not criticized or predicted the end of pc gaming in any way, shape, or form.devious742

I wasn't talking about you... also..how can I take you serious when you were clearly patronizing him...heck you followed up with this comment

he thinks that everyone is out to get the pc. i once had the audacity to criticize crysis...wow, that started 4 pages of nonsense.clone01

[QUOTE="FatCatPatRat"]

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"] WTH the number of companies has to do with anything? You do realize we are talking about platforms here dont you? 360,PS3,DS,Wii and PSP are different platforms. Pc as a platform is much bigger than any other single platform adamosmaki

The basis of your argument was that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo compete in the console market therefore they should be separated.

If you want to talk single platforms, how can the PC possibly be considered a single platform when there are so many different companies making so many different computers; when people can customise and make their own damn PCs to suit their gaming needs, which consoles do not do yet you want to claim it as one single platform? (keep in mind your comments about splitting the big three up)

Well actually, your reasoning was that the big three compete with each other and should hence be separated but whatever.

there are two types of gaming, PC and console. PC gaming is dominated by one platform, that being the PC. Regardless of there only being one platform, that is still the only platform and makes up the whole of PC gaming. When comparing console gaming and PC gaming you cannot simply just say that consoles should be divided because they all come together to form what we know as console gaming.

If you want to split them, then you shouldn't be comparing PC and Console gaming in the first place.

Also i suggest you re read the title. Its PC sales > console sales, not PC sales over Wii, 360, PS3, NDS and PSP sales.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] PC gaming is the most varied platform out there, in terms of who plays and the options they have to play. Forget SW's little meta game for a minute. No one is going to review social site gaming on here. The fact is every aspect of the PC market is growing (except outdated retail) while the console market has dramatically shrunk over the last year.blue_hazy_basic

Yes it is and I would agree with that completely.

But this thread is about $ Revenue as you said yourself. And there are a bunch of people who believe the $ Revenue associated with casual gaming portals and social networking games should be counted in the PC gaming camp and that this is further evidence of the PC market growing. I can live with that in the very short term.

Anything beyond the short term it is likely the opposite. Most of that $ Revenue from gaming portals and social networking is going to migrate to channels that use other devices, not PCs. Indeed, a lot of that money is going to find its way to people who are going to be trying to kill the traditional PC centric model. Fortunately, capitalism is not a zero sum game and neither console gaming nor PC gaming is just going to die out right away, and in the case of PC gaming perhaps never. But, we are going to shift to mobility in a huge way over the next decade. The first to fall will be dedicated gaming handhelds.

Both. That said, dedicated gaming console machines will go the way that dedicated gaming handhelds will go, which is to say the way of the dodo bird :)

The question is whether the consoles will adequately morph into true multipurpose entertainment machines. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, using the examples of Zuma and Bejeweled....how long before you are just plugging your smartphone into your TV? Which will be much more convenient than plugging your PC into your TV, unless the PC itself morphs and becomes attached to the TV.

Anyway, once your smartphone just plugs into your TV, why do you need a PC anymore for those games? The answer is you don't as the smartphone will give you the screen you want at home plus mobility anywhere.

http://www.appmarket.tv/news/758-samsung-merging-app-platforms-for-smartphones-and-connected-tv.html#

check into his posting history if you don't believe me. but that's not necessarily an insult to him. truly, he is a shining example of pc gamers, and everyone should aspire to achieve even a fraction of his greatness. and if you weren't addressing me, why did you quote me?clone01

[QUOTE="clone01"] check into his posting history if you don't believe me. but that's not necessarily an insult to him. truly, he is a shining example of pc gamers, and everyone should aspire to achieve even a fraction of his greatness. and if you weren't addressing me, why did you quote me?devious742

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"][QUOTE="FatCatPatRat"]

The basis of your argument was that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo compete in the console market therefore they should be separated.

If you want to talk single platforms, how can the PC possibly be considered a single platform when there are so many different companies making so many different computers; when people can customise and make their own damn PCs to suit their gaming needs, which consoles do not do yet you want to claim it as one single platform? (keep in mind your comments about splitting the big three up)

FatCatPatRat

Well actually, your reasoning was that the big three compete with each other and should hence be separated but whatever.

there are two types of gaming, PC and console. PC gaming is dominated by one platform, that being the PC. Regardless of there only being one platform, that is still the only platform and makes up the whole of PC gaming. When comparing console gaming and PC gaming you cannot simply just say that consoles should be divided because they all come together to form what we know as console gaming.

If you want to split them, then you shouldn't be comparing PC and Console gaming in the first place.

Also i suggest you re read the title. Its PC sales > console sales, not PC sales over Wii, 360, PS3, NDS and PSP sales.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

I prefer the console gamers in this thread, at least their attempts to bash PC are out there in the open. He stalks threads waiting for someone to make just the right comment, and then comes in to take it out of context; and make PC gamers look bad.

blue_hazy_basic

This past November, NPD reported that software revenue rose 4 percent to $1.46 billion compared to November 2009. [link] Frazier commented that "Gains in November offset a good portion of the year-to-date declines," Even still, the year-to-date decline was not particularly significant. Between January and October, NPD/Nintendo only estimated a decline of $400 million -- from $5.9 billion to $5.5 billion. Between the Wii, PS3 and 360, they actually generated the same amount of revenue both years ($4.5 billion).

So where does this talk of a 29% decline come from?

because everything is compatible in Pc. Is not like if you have an AMD cpu you cant play a THQ game. Thats the reasoning why i separate consoles and Pc is a single platform.adamosmaki

Well actually, your reasoning was that the big three compete with each other and should hence be separated but whatever.

there are two types of gaming, PC and console. PC gaming is dominated by one platform, that being the PC. Regardless of there only being one platform, that is still the only platform and makes up the whole of PC gaming. When comparing console gaming and PC gaming you cannot simply just say that consoles should be divided because they all come together to form what we know as console gaming.

If you want to split them, then you shouldn't be comparing PC and Console gaming in the first place.

Also i suggest you re read the title. Its PC sales > console sales, not PC sales over Wii, 360, PS3, NDS and PSP sales.

Well then you should seperate the PC stuff by operating systemh575309

OSs aren't competing gaming-wise. Consoles are.

If you want to do it, go ahead. It's a wrong thing to do, but its effect is negligible.

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"][QUOTE="FatCatPatRat"]

Well actually, your reasoning was that the big three compete with each other and should hence be separated but whatever.

there are two types of gaming, PC and console. PC gaming is dominated by one platform, that being the PC. Regardless of there only being one platform, that is still the only platform and makes up the whole of PC gaming. When comparing console gaming and PC gaming you cannot simply just say that consoles should be divided because they all come together to form what we know as console gaming.

If you want to split them, then you shouldn't be comparing PC and Console gaming in the first place.

Also i suggest you re read the title. Its PC sales > console sales, not PC sales over Wii, 360, PS3, NDS and PSP sales.

h575309

Ok put aside that a MAC is a PersonalComputer i'm quite sure that that huge 2-3% of people using Mac for gaming really takes away from Pc

[QUOTE="h575309"][QUOTE="adamosmaki"] I know the title and still PC>consoles people here are separating social gaming and MMO's saying that they dont count which makes no sense it makes more sense treating each console as a different platform which they areadamosmaki

Ok put aside that a MAC is a PersonalComputer i'm quite sure that that huge 2-3% of people using Mac for gaming really takes away from Pc

OK but Wii, PS3 and X360 are all "consoles". Windows and Macs compete and are "personal computers". It makes sense to lump both together.

And Im willing to bet that Mac users are a decent portion of flash/casual games including Farmville etc.

Im not really sure why this is such a suprise anyway. The userbase for PCs is like a bagillion times bigger than consoles. I mean I can play PvZ on my computer at work.

h575309

This. It's funny how the PC, with over a billion users worldwide is beating the consoles, with around 200 million or so combined users, by a small margin and somehow its a huge victory for PC gamers. Yay PC I guess.

[QUOTE="h575309"]

Im not really sure why this is such a suprise anyway. The userbase for PCs is like a bagillion times bigger than consoles. I mean I can play PvZ on my computer at work.

KalEl370

This. It's funny how the PC, with over a billion users worldwide is beating the consoles, with around 200 million or so combined users, by a small margin and somehow its a huge victory for PC gamers. Yay PC I guess.

PC vs Consoles as a whole is rather irrelevant, considering all the platforms are competing against each other. In reality, it's PC vs. 360 vs PS3 vs DS vs PSP vs Wii, which when divided the PC absolutely reigns over.

Plus, it's not like these statistics are static. Different years mean different results, like when someone a few pages back posted the results from last year, it was a huge margin, and I'm sure years before (especially in the early 1900's to early 2000's) PC was really strong in sales.