PS3 and Xbox 360 maybe equally as powerful,but Blu-Ray gives PS3 the edge

[QUOTE="donalbane"]The Blu Ray drive is a double edged sword. Slow access speeds that require mandatory installs are traded off for large storage capacity. So I think it's even regarding gaming, honestly. (For every Uncharted there's a lackluster PS3 multiplat.) The Blu Ray is appealing for movie watching, but considering the fact that most of the movies I now watch are on Netflix Watch Instantly (which are better on 360), it's still a tossup in terms of non gaming entertainment... despite the fact that the PS3 is the better of the two DVD players. So for a long time, the PS3 was noticably worse as a gaming platform, and now it's improved to where it can stand toe to toe with the 360... in my mind, anyhow. I give Sony credit for catching up, but it was a long-ass haul for them. If you bought a PS3 several years into it's lifespan, you may have missed how crappy it was in the early days.Persistantthug

The mandatory installs you speak of are a once time 5 to 10 minute inconvienence, not a problem. Every program I buy for my computer has had to be installed....I don't see why it's a "problem" to do that on my PS3.

It's no tossup for non gaming entertainmen....PS3 is heads and shoulders above XBOX 360....its really not even close...paid movies, free movies, free themes, paid music, free music, better audio, better format reader wifi, bluetooth...even better visuals...again, not even close, and there's even more stuff than that that PS3 has that XBOX 360 doesn't.

Finally,I will give you this though, PS3 did have a rough start, unfortunately for the early adopters. Unfortunately, they aren't savvy enough consumers to know that you are never supposed to buy new electronic products when they are first run or first generation....especially game consoles. You get bad reliablity, little and inferior software, and a higher cost. Too bad for them, but I bought mine January 2009....the sweet and "correct" time to buy, imo

So...10 hours till first gameplay footage of Crysis 2 eh? :)

So...10 hours till first gameplay footage of Crysis 2 eh? :)

Bus-A-Bus

4k post thread incoming :P

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

So...10 hours till first gameplay footage of Crysis 2 eh? :)

Snugenz

4k post thread incoming :P

Im gonna probably push 2k posts alone :lol:

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Blu Ray was only beneficial to FFXIII's CGI cutscenes and had nothing to do with the difference in resolution. The difference with in-game resolution can be put down to the same reason RDR is sub HD on the PS3.

Snugenz

I see what you're saying and where you're going Snugenz, and I consider it a reasonable arguement, but the problem here is, is the 2 games RDR and FF13 and their respected genres are way different.

JRPG's are not "power intensive" genres....especially not the turn based ones. I'm definitely willing to concede that the XBOX 360 can run FF13 in the same resolution as the PS3's version in terms of power.....but what the XBOX 360 clearly lacked was media storage to store HD resolution without resorting to 6 or 7 (maybe even more) disks.

The reasons behind RDR and FF13's disparity are clearly for different reasons.

Not one of the 360 FFXIII discs use up all the space available (on the disc).

That and storage space has no bearing on engine resolution.

Snugenz,

Clearly the disk space issue was a problem and had a bearing on the resolution and the quality.

If it didn't, then 360's version of FF13 wouldn't have had to be 576p on a turn based RPG....not to mention compression on the cut scenes that still weren't 1080p.

Getting the game to run at 720p gameplay and 1080p cut scenes with lossless audio and no compression, that would have taken 6 or 7 disks and possibly more. Why more? Because all of the engine and assets on disk 1 need to be on disk 2, 3, 4 and so on, which means more disks are required.

Are you seriously trying to convince that Blue Ray vs DVD wasn't the problem in the noticeable quality and resolution disparities? I mean, come on.

You do know that XBOX DVD's only have 6.8 Gigs of storage to work with their games, right?

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Yes, and the gameplay of XBOX 360's version was 576p.....sub HD gameplay.

You still want to contend BluRay isn't needed, monson21502?

So?

PC all have Harddrives.

Besides that, we are talking console's here. There's no FF13 on PC, and there's no Crysis 1 on Consoles.

Again, we are talking console's here.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I see what you're saying and where you're going Snugenz, and I consider it a reasonable arguement, but the problem here is, is the 2 games RDR and FF13 and their respected genres are way different.

JRPG's are not "power intensive" genres....especially not the turn based ones. I'm definitely willing to concede that the XBOX 360 can run FF13 in the same resolution as the PS3's version in terms of power.....but what the XBOX 360 clearly lacked was media storage to store HD resolution without resorting to 6 or 7 (maybe even more) disks.

The reasons behind RDR and FF13's disparity are clearly for different reasons.

Persistantthug

Not one of the 360 FFXIII discs use up all the space available (on the disc).

That and storage space has no bearing on engine resolution.

Snugenz,

Clearly the disk space issue was a problem and had a bearing on the resolution and the quality.

If it didn't, then 360's version of FF13 wouldn't have had to be 576p on a turn based RPG....not to mention compression on the cut scenes that still weren't 1080p.

Getting the game to run at 720p gameplay and 1080p cut scenes with lossless audio and no compression, that would have taken 6 or 7 disks and possibly more. Why more? Because all of the engine and assets on disk 1 need to be on disk 2, 3, 4 and so on, which means more disks are required.

Are you seriously trying to convince that Blue Ray vs DVD wasn't the problem in the noticeable quality and resolution disparities? I mean, come on.

You do know that XBOX DVD's only have 6.8 Gigs of storage to work with their games, right?

The CGI took up (iirc) 32gigs of space on the BR disc that is at 1080p. The 360 versions cgi was in 720p, and compressed. And once again, storage space has no bearing whatsoever on game resolution.

Yes i know there's only 6.8gigs to every 360 DVD9 and not one of the FFXIII discs filled that capacity.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="clone01"] crysis didn't need blu-ray, and its still one of the best looking games ever made.ronvalencia

So?

PC all have Harddrives.

Besides that, we are talking console's here. There's no FF13 on PC, and there's no Crysis 1 on Consoles.

Again, we are talking console's here.

Again, I'm not interested in talking about Crysis 1 on a console topic....sorry.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Not one of the 360 FFXIII discs use up all the space available (on the disc).

That and storage space has no bearing on engine resolution.

Snugenz

Snugenz,

Clearly the disk space issue was a problem and had a bearing on the resolution and the quality.

If it didn't, then 360's version of FF13 wouldn't have had to be 576p on a turn based RPG....not to mention compression on the cut scenes that still weren't 1080p.

Getting the game to run at 720p gameplay and 1080p cut scenes with lossless audio and no compression, that would have taken 6 or 7 disks and possibly more. Why more? Because all of the engine and assets on disk 1 need to be on disk 2, 3, 4 and so on, which means more disks are required.

Are you seriously trying to convince that Blue Ray vs DVD wasn't the problem in the noticeable quality and resolution disparities? I mean, come on.

You do know that XBOX DVD's only have 6.8 Gigs of storage to work with their games, right?

The CGI took up (iirc) 32gigs of space on the BR disc that is at 1080p. The 360 versions cgi was in 720p, and compressed. And once again, storage space has no bearing whatsoever on game resolution.

Yes i know there's only 6.8gigs to every 360 DVD9 and not one of the FFXIII discs filled that capacity.

It clearly is when you are working with only 3 DVD's.

If XBOX 360 had a BluRay player, Final Fantasy 13 could have been 1 to 1 quality...except for the audio of course (5.1 vs. 7.1)

I don't see why you're arguing this, Snugenz. :|

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

So?

PC all have Harddrives.

Besides that, we are talking console's here. There's no FF13 on PC, and there's no Crysis 1 on Consoles.

Again, we are talking console's here.

Persistantthug

Again, I'm not interested in talking about Crysis 1 on a console topic....sorry.

it's a valid example based on the technology being discussed.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Snugenz,

Clearly the disk space issue was a problem and had a bearing on the resolution and the quality.

If it didn't, then 360's version of FF13 wouldn't have had to be 576p on a turn based RPG....not to mention compression on the cut scenes that still weren't 1080p.

Getting the game to run at 720p gameplay and 1080p cut scenes with lossless audio and no compression, that would have taken 6 or 7 disks and possibly more. Why more? Because all of the engine and assets on disk 1 need to be on disk 2, 3, 4 and so on, which means more disks are required.

Are you seriously trying to convince that Blue Ray vs DVD wasn't the problem in the noticeable quality and resolution disparities? I mean, come on.

You do know that XBOX DVD's only have 6.8 Gigs of storage to work with their games, right?

Persistantthug

The CGI took up (iirc) 32gigs of space on the BR disc that is at 1080p. The 360 versions cgi was in 720p, and compressed. And once again, storage space has no bearing whatsoever on game resolution.

Yes i know there's only 6.8gigs to every 360 DVD9 and not one of the FFXIII discs filled that capacity.

It clearly is when you are working with only 3 DVD's.

If XBOX 360 had a BluRay player, Final Fantasy 13 could have been 1 to 1 quality...except for the audio of course.

I don't see why you're arguing this, Snugenz. :|

The only think BR would've improved on the 360 version would be the CGI and audio quality, thats it, nothing else.

The textures between both versions are identical, aswell as all the story/character elements. The lower in-game resolution had nothing to do with DVD or BR ... Nothing, Zero, Zip, Zilch ...

Link to the data size differences of both versions.

The game data on the PS3 version is only 6.8gig worth of data.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

So?

PC all have Harddrives.

Besides that, we are talking console's here. There's no FF13 on PC, and there's no Crysis 1 on Consoles.

Again, we are talking console's here.

Again, I'm not interested in talking about Crysis 1 on a console topic....sorry.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

The CGI took up (iirc) 32gigs of space on the BR disc that is at 1080p. The 360 versions cgi was in 720p, and compressed. And once again, storage space has no bearing whatsoever on game resolution.

Yes i know there's only 6.8gigs to every 360 DVD9 and not one of the FFXIII discs filled that capacity.

Snugenz

It clearly is when you are working with only 3 DVD's.

If XBOX 360 had a BluRay player, Final Fantasy 13 could have been 1 to 1 quality...except for the audio of course.

I don't see why you're arguing this, Snugenz. :|

The only think BR would've improved on the 360 version would be the CGI and audio quality, thats it, nothing else.

The textures between both versions are identical, aswell as all the story/character elements. The lower in-game resolution had nothing to do with DVD or BR ... Nothing, Zero, Zip, Zilch ...

Link to the data size differences of both versions.

The game data on the PS3 version is only 6.8gig worth of data.

I see what and why your arguing now, Snugenz.

But your point and reasoning is invalid. Whether you like it or not, In FF13, the CGI and audio is a part of the game....That's how Square makes their games, Snugenz, and it's a punctuated staple of their game designs. It is what it is.

FF 13PS3 > FF13 360 because of BluRay...period.

Argument over, really.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Snugenz,

Clearly the disk space issue was a problem and had a bearing on the resolution and the quality.

If it didn't, then 360's version of FF13 wouldn't have had to be 576p on a turn based RPG....not to mention compression on the cut scenes that still weren't 1080p.

Getting the game to run at 720p gameplay and 1080p cut scenes with lossless audio and no compression, that would have taken 6 or 7 disks and possibly more. Why more? Because all of the engine and assets on disk 1 need to be on disk 2, 3, 4 and so on, which means more disks are required.

Are you seriously trying to convince that Blue Ray vs DVD wasn't the problem in the noticeable quality and resolution disparities? I mean, come on.

You do know that XBOX DVD's only have 6.8 Gigs of storage to work with their games, right?

Persistantthug

The CGI took up (iirc) 32gigs of space on the BR disc that is at 1080p. The 360 versions cgi was in 720p, and compressed. And once again, storage space has no bearing whatsoever on game resolution.

Yes i know there's only 6.8gigs to every 360 DVD9 and not one of the FFXIII discs filled that capacity.

It clearly is when you are working with only 3 DVD's.

If XBOX 360 had a BluRay player, Final Fantasy 13 could have been 1 to 1 quality...except for the audio of course (5.1 vs. 7.1)

I don't see why you're arguing this, Snugenz. :|

Having Blu-Ray drive and content would not change Xbox 360's FF13's 3D render resolution.

Wii's DVD support doesn't enable the Wii to match Xbox 360's or PC's 3D rendering performance.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It clearly is when you are working with only 3 DVD's.

If XBOX 360 had a BluRay player, Final Fantasy 13 could have been 1 to 1 quality...except for the audio of course.

I don't see why you're arguing this, Snugenz. :|

Persistantthug

The only think BR would've improved on the 360 version would be the CGI and audio quality, thats it, nothing else.

The textures between both versions are identical, aswell as all the story/character elements. The lower in-game resolution had nothing to do with DVD or BR ... Nothing, Zero, Zip, Zilch ...

Link to the data size differences of both versions.

The game data on the PS3 version is only 6.8gig worth of data.

I see what and why your arguing now, Snugenz.

But your point and reasoning is invalid. Whether you like it or not, In FF13, the CGI and audio is a part of the game....That's how Square makes their games, Snugenz, and it's a punctuated staple of their game designs. It is what it is.

FF 13PS3 > FF13 360 because of BluRay...period.

Argument over, really.

Sure, Blu Ray makes pretty in game movies slightly prettier and makes it sound slightly better. Huge advantage ...

It clearly is when you are working with only 3 DVD's.

If XBOX 360 had a BluRay player, Final Fantasy 13 could have been 1 to 1 quality...except for the audio of course (5.1 vs. 7.1)

I don't see why you're arguing this, Snugenz. :|

Persistantthug

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

The only think BR would've improved on the 360 version would be the CGI and audio quality, thats it, nothing else.

The textures between both versions are identical, aswell as all the story/character elements. The lower in-game resolution had nothing to do with DVD or BR ... Nothing, Zero, Zip, Zilch ...

Link to the data size differences of both versions.

The game data on the PS3 version is only 6.8gig worth of data.

Snugenz

I see what and why your arguing now, Snugenz.

But your point and reasoning is invalid. Whether you like it or not, In FF13, the CGI and audio is a part of the game....That's how Square makes their games, Snugenz, and it's a punctuated staple of their game designs. It is what it is.

FF 13PS3 > FF13 360 because of BluRay...period.

Argument over, really.

Sure, Blu Ray makes pretty in game movies slightly prettier and makes it sound slightly better. Huge advantage ...

You may or may not appreciate that game's aspect and features, but again....

It is what it is.

In the case of FF13......BluRay > DVD....period.

Over and done.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I see what and why your arguing now, Snugenz.

But your point and reasoning is invalid. Whether you like it or not, In FF13, the CGI and audio is a part of the game....That's how Square makes their games, Snugenz, and it's a punctuated staple of their game designs. It is what it is.

FF 13PS3 > FF13 360 because of BluRay...period.

Argument over, really.

Persistantthug

Sure, Blu Ray makes pretty in game movies slightly prettier and makes it sound slightly better. Huge advantage ...

You may or may not appreciate that game's aspect and features, but again....

It is what it is.

In the case of FF13......BluRay > DVD....period.

Over and done.

didn't you hint at blu ray being necessary or something? weren't you also talking about gameplay resolution?

[QUOTE="meconate"][QUOTE="walkingdream"]I don't see how a single blue ray layer of 33gb would give it an advantage over the current blue ray vs dvd? Otherwise i agreeWilliamRLBaker

no because only about 6-7 gigs of data on the bluray disc were actual gameplay, and the game didn't even take up a dual layer it used like 31 gigs. the same with Final fantasy 13 its a confirmed fact only 7-8 gigs of actual gameplay data with CGI taking up the rest and it still didn't take up an entire bluray dual layer it had something like 9 gigs left + on bluray and 5-6 gigs left on 3 dvds.

As for the TC. Please show me where games were longer, and more involved in the transition from carts to cds please because its the same paralel here. There is a standard in the industry and it will allways be that way, RPGs, Action games, they only become so big in environments and time required to play. No new data technology has changed this. People don't want to see 500 hour epic rpgs unless they are mmo's and those dont even come on discs mostly they are downloaded, bluray means nothing when it comes to bigger worlds and such, Developers are limited more by budgets, development time and user habits then they ever were storage space.

bluray offers more room for developers like Square to include massive amounts of CGI otherwise bluray means nothing in terms of quality of a game, Because even If though it might offer better higher resolution textures, the ram in todays consoles limits that stuff you can only have so much texture stuff loaded into ram and high resolution textures take up more and more ram.

It doesn't affect physics, or resolution, or AI...ect

What? You honestly think Blue Ray capacity is only good for cgi? What?

How about higher res textures, higher quality audio, multiple audio, all of which require more space. Not to mention the whole disc swap I mean how many DVD's do you have for FF13 on 360? Ya , thats what I thought.

As far as giving the PS3 the edge, well it's more about the ability to buy a 500 gig drive for $60 or buy a 120 Gig drive for $150. Not to mention the region free games. Those are the features which put the PS3 over the top in my book. Not to mention my PS3 has been running 4 times longer without repair than my 360.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

[QUOTE="meconate"] Aren't Blu-Ray disks one reason why MGS4 will never see the Xbox 360... or am I missing something here?360hammer

no because only about 6-7 gigs of data on the bluray disc were actual gameplay, and the game didn't even take up a dual layer it used like 31 gigs. the same with Final fantasy 13 its a confirmed fact only 7-8 gigs of actual gameplay data with CGI taking up the rest and it still didn't take up an entire bluray dual layer it had something like 9 gigs left + on bluray and 5-6 gigs left on 3 dvds.

As for the TC. Please show me where games were longer, and more involved in the transition from carts to cds please because its the same paralel here. There is a standard in the industry and it will allways be that way, RPGs, Action games, they only become so big in environments and time required to play. No new data technology has changed this. People don't want to see 500 hour epic rpgs unless they are mmo's and those dont even come on discs mostly they are downloaded, bluray means nothing when it comes to bigger worlds and such, Developers are limited more by budgets, development time and user habits then they ever were storage space.

bluray offers more room for developers like Square to include massive amounts of CGI otherwise bluray means nothing in terms of quality of a game, Because even If though it might offer better higher resolution textures, the ram in todays consoles limits that stuff you can only have so much texture stuff loaded into ram and high resolution textures take up more and more ram.

It doesn't affect physics, or resolution, or AI...ect

What? You honestly think Blue Ray capacity is only good for cgi? What?

How about higher res textures, higher quality audio, multiple audio, all of which require more space. Not to mention the whole disc swap I mean how many DVD's do you have for FF13 on 360? Ya , thats what I thought.

As far as giving the PS3 the edge, well it's more about the ability to buy a 500 gig drive for $60 or buy a 120 Gig drive for $150. Not to mention the region free games. Those are the features which put the PS3 over the top in my book. Not to mention my PS3 has been running 4 times longer without repair than my 360.

No.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Sure, Blu Ray makes pretty in game movies slightly prettier and makes it sound slightly better. Huge advantage ...

CaseyWegner

You may or may not appreciate that game's aspect and features, but again....

It is what it is.

In the case of FF13......BluRay > DVD....period.

Over and done.

didn't you hint at blu ray being necessary or something? weren't you also talking about gameplay resolution?

Yes sir.

In the case of Final Fantasy 13....for XBOX 360's version to achieve 1 to 1 parity and quality,

BluRay was indeed necessary.

edit in....

UNLESS..........

Unless of course, you can order one of these special editions....

Only in Japan of course.

;)

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Yes, and the gameplay of XBOX 360's version was 576p.....sub HD gameplay.

You still want to contend BluRay isn't needed, monson21502?

Persistantthug

So?

PC all have Harddrives.

Besides that, we are talking console's here. There's no FF13 on PC, and there's no Crysis 1 on Consoles.

Again, we are talking console's here.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

[QUOTE="meconate"] Aren't Blu-Ray disks one reason why MGS4 will never see the Xbox 360... or am I missing something here?360hammer

no because only about 6-7 gigs of data on the bluray disc were actual gameplay, and the game didn't even take up a dual layer it used like 31 gigs. the same with Final fantasy 13 its a confirmed fact only 7-8 gigs of actual gameplay data with CGI taking up the rest and it still didn't take up an entire bluray dual layer it had something like 9 gigs left + on bluray and 5-6 gigs left on 3 dvds.

As for the TC. Please show me where games were longer, and more involved in the transition from carts to cds please because its the same paralel here. There is a standard in the industry and it will allways be that way, RPGs, Action games, they only become so big in environments and time required to play. No new data technology has changed this. People don't want to see 500 hour epic rpgs unless they are mmo's and those dont even come on discs mostly they are downloaded, bluray means nothing when it comes to bigger worlds and such, Developers are limited more by budgets, development time and user habits then they ever were storage space.

bluray offers more room for developers like Square to include massive amounts of CGI otherwise bluray means nothing in terms of quality of a game, Because even If though it might offer better higher resolution textures, the ram in todays consoles limits that stuff you can only have so much texture stuff loaded into ram and high resolution textures take up more and more ram.

It doesn't affect physics, or resolution, or AI...ect

What? You honestly think Blue Ray capacity is only good for cgi? What?

How about higher res textures, higher quality audio, multiple audio, all of which require more space. Not to mention the whole disc swap I mean how many DVD's do you have for FF13 on 360? Ya , thats what I thought.

As far as giving the PS3 the edge, well it's more about the ability to buy a 500 gig drive for $60 or buy a 120 Gig drive for $150. Not to mention the region free games. Those are the features which put the PS3 over the top in my book. Not to mention my PS3 has been running 4 times longer without repair than my 360.

Higher quality audio, CGI and multiple localizations are advantages. Texture resolution is limited by the consoles memory so Blu Ray offers no advantage there as both the 360 and the PS3 have the same amount of ram.

3 Discs on FFXIII 360 and the disc swap takes 10seconds, an inconvenience sure but an insignificant one.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

You may or may not appreciate that game's aspect and features, but again....

It is what it is.

In the case of FF13......BluRay > DVD....period.

Over and done.

Persistantthug

didn't you hint at blu ray being necessary or something? weren't you also talking about gameplay resolution?

Yes sir.

In the case of Final Fantasy 13....for XBOX 360's version to achieve 1 to 1 parity and quality,

BluRay was indeed necessary.

i did ask another question.

[QUOTE="donalbane"]The Blu Ray drive is a double edged sword. Slow access speeds that require mandatory installs are traded off for large storage capacity. So I think it's even regarding gaming, honestly. (For every Uncharted there's a lackluster PS3 multiplat.) The Blu Ray is appealing for movie watching, but considering the fact that most of the movies I now watch are on Netflix Watch Instantly (which are better on 360), it's still a tossup in terms of non gaming entertainment... despite the fact that the PS3 is the better of the two DVD players. So for a long time, the PS3 was noticably worse as a gaming platform, and now it's improved to where it can stand toe to toe with the 360... in my mind, anyhow. I give Sony credit for catching up, but it was a long-ass haul for them. If you bought a PS3 several years into it's lifespan, you may have missed how crappy it was in the early days.Persistantthug

Firstly, The mandatory installs you speak of are a once time 5 to 10 minute inconvienence, not a problem. Every program I buy for my computer has had to be installed....I don't see why it's a "problem" to do that on my PS3.

2nd, It's no tossup for non gaming entertainmen....PS3 is heads and shoulders above XBOX 360....its really not even close...paid movies, free movies, free themes, paid music, free music, better audio, better format reader wifi, bluetooth...even better visuals...again, not even close, and there's even more stuff than that that PS3 has that XBOX 360 doesn't.

Finally,I will give you this though, PS3 did have a rough start, unfortunately for the early adopters. Unfortunately, they aren't savvy enough consumers to know that you are never supposed to buy new electronic products when they are first run or first generation....especially game consoles. You get bad reliablity, little and inferior software, and a higher cost. Too bad for them, but I bought mine January 2009....the sweet and "correct" time to buy, imo

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="donalbane"]The Blu Ray drive is a double edged sword. Slow access speeds that require mandatory installs are traded off for large storage capacity. So I think it's even regarding gaming, honestly. (For every Uncharted there's a lackluster PS3 multiplat.) The Blu Ray is appealing for movie watching, but considering the fact that most of the movies I now watch are on Netflix Watch Instantly (which are better on 360), it's still a tossup in terms of non gaming entertainment... despite the fact that the PS3 is the better of the two DVD players. So for a long time, the PS3 was noticably worse as a gaming platform, and now it's improved to where it can stand toe to toe with the 360... in my mind, anyhow. I give Sony credit for catching up, but it was a long-ass haul for them. If you bought a PS3 several years into it's lifespan, you may have missed how crappy it was in the early days.clone01

Firstly, The mandatory installs you speak of are a once time 5 to 10 minute inconvienence, not a problem. Every program I buy for my computer has had to be installed....I don't see why it's a "problem" to do that on my PS3.

2nd, It's no tossup for non gaming entertainmen....PS3 is heads and shoulders above XBOX 360....its really not even close...paid movies, free movies, free themes, paid music, free music, better audio, better format reader wifi, bluetooth...even better visuals...again, not even close, and there's even more stuff than that that PS3 has that XBOX 360 doesn't.

Finally,I will give you this though, PS3 did have a rough start, unfortunately for the early adopters. Unfortunately, they aren't savvy enough consumers to know that you are never supposed to buy new electronic products when they are first run or first generation....especially game consoles. You get bad reliablity, little and inferior software, and a higher cost. Too bad for them, but I bought mine January 2009....the sweet and "correct" time to buy, imo

Yeah...back when PS3 was foriegn to practically everyone, Konami included.....sure.

2010 now though.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

So?

PC all have Harddrives.

Besides that, we are talking console's here. There's no FF13 on PC, and there's no Crysis 1 on Consoles.

Again, we are talking console's here.

Persistantthug

Again, I'm not interested in talking about Crysis 1 on a console topic....sorry.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] With Crysis uses the hard drive for speed. I could repoint Crysis's installation into 8 GB SD flash memory card.clone01

Again, I'm not interested in talking about Crysis 1 on a console topic....sorry.

I read the topic...

I know exactly what its about.

Yeah...back when PS3 was foriegn to practically everyone.....sure.

2010 now.

Persistantthug

huh? what does that have to do with installs? and 2008 was "back then?"

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

didn't you hint at blu ray being necessary or something? weren't you also talking about gameplay resolution?

CaseyWegner

Yes sir.

In the case of Final Fantasy 13....for XBOX 360's version to achieve 1 to 1 parity and quality,

BluRay was indeed necessary.

i did ask another question.

I'm not following you.

I have to run out for 30 mins, but I'll be back.

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Again, I'm not interested in talking about Crysis 1 on a console topic....sorry.

Persistantthug

I read the topic...

I know exactly what its about.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]Yeah...back when PS3 was foriegn to practically everyone.....sure.

2010 now.

clone01

huh? what does that have to do with installs? and 2008 was "back then?"

Yes...2 years is a long time in "tech time"....especially in this case when Konami was new to the PS3 architecture.

They still did a great job....but the installs would be unnessesary if done today.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Yes sir.

In the case of Final Fantasy 13....for XBOX 360's version to achieve 1 to 1 parity and quality,

BluRay was indeed necessary.

Persistantthug

i did ask another question.

I'm not following you.

I have to run out for 30 mins, but I'll be back.

you seemed happy to close the cgi section of your case but you were also talking about gameplay resolution. what happened to that part?

[QUOTE="clone01"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]Yeah...back when PS3 was foriegn to practically everyone.....sure.

2010 now.

Persistantthug

huh? what does that have to do with installs? and 2008 was "back then?"

Yes...2 years is a long time in "tech time"....especially in this case when Konami was new to the PS3 architecture.

They still did a great job....but the installs would be unnessesary if done today.

how do you know?

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It clearly is when you are working with only 3 DVD's.

If XBOX 360 had a BluRay player, Final Fantasy 13 could have been 1 to 1 quality...except for the audio of course.

I don't see why you're arguing this, Snugenz. :|

Persistantthug

The only think BR would've improved on the 360 version would be the CGI and audio quality, thats it, nothing else.

The textures between both versions are identical, aswell as all the story/character elements. The lower in-game resolution had nothing to do with DVD or BR ... Nothing, Zero, Zip, Zilch ...

Link to the data size differences of both versions.

The game data on the PS3 version is only 6.8gig worth of data.

I see what and why your arguing now, Snugenz.

But your point and reasoning is invalid. Whether you like it or not, In FF13, the CGI and audio is a part of the game....That's how Square makes their games, Snugenz, and it's a punctuated staple of their game designs. It is what it is.

FF 13PS3 > FF13 360 because of BluRay...period.

Argument over, really.

Would CryEngine2 powered FF13 need blu-ray and pre-rendered CGI?

Refer to

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAh5tlA0LHQ

"Work In Progress" Crysis custom map - Eorzea from Final Fantasy XIV

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVs4po_kISU&feature=related

"Eorzea" [Trailer] - A Crysis machinima

blu- ray is an advantage in storage space, but it doesn't make graphics, or resolution better, both consoles can only crunch through 512mb of data at any time, blu-ray does not increase the amount of data the console can deal with at any one time, people also seem to forget that the 360 has more useable memory, which means it can push a larger amount of data at any one time, there, it also makes me laugh when people talk about lossless audio, last i hearsd the Ps3 can only output 5.1 dolby digital (according to it's specifications) blu-ray is an advantage if you want longer games, but it cannot increase graphical fidelity which is limited to the amount of data that can actually be processed by the console, which is 512mb, i agree that it is an advantage, but it certainly is not a neccessity, unless of course you are too lazy to change discs, DVD has not really reached it's limit yet either, games like farcry 2, huge massive open world games only take up 4.5 gb on my HDD, i find very few games take up the full 6.8gb on the HDD, a lot of the data on 360 games discs is actually duplicated to increase read times, NXE doesn't install the duplicate data, so it shows you the Atual size of the game itself, blu-ray is not used to it's full advatage though, as games on the 360 like ME2,risen and fable are generally longer than most Ps3 exclusives, it really is pointless talking about an advantage that nobody seems to be using at all.delta3074

If DVD has not reached its limit than why can't FF13, Forza3, Mass Effect 2 and Rage be fit into a single disk?

[QUOTE="delta3074"]blu- ray is an advantage in storage space, but it doesn't make graphics, or resolution better, both consoles can only crunch through 512mb of data at any time, blu-ray does not increase the amount of data the console can deal with at any one time, people also seem to forget that the 360 has more useable memory, which means it can push a larger amount of data at any one time, there, it also makes me laugh when people talk about lossless audio, last i hearsd the Ps3 can only output 5.1 dolby digital (according to it's specifications) blu-ray is an advantage if you want longer games, but it cannot increase graphical fidelity which is limited to the amount of data that can actually be processed by the console, which is 512mb, i agree that it is an advantage, but it certainly is not a neccessity, unless of course you are too lazy to change discs, DVD has not really reached it's limit yet either, games like farcry 2, huge massive open world games only take up 4.5 gb on my HDD, i find very few games take up the full 6.8gb on the HDD, a lot of the data on 360 games discs is actually duplicated to increase read times, NXE doesn't install the duplicate data, so it shows you the Atual size of the game itself, blu-ray is not used to it's full advatage though, as games on the 360 like ME2,risen and fable are generally longer than most Ps3 exclusives, it really is pointless talking about an advantage that nobody seems to be using at all.fun-da-mental

If DVD has not reached its limit than why can't FF13, Forza3, Mass Effect 2 and Rage be fit into a single disk?

[QUOTE="clone01"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]Yeah...back when PS3 was foriegn to practically everyone.....sure.

2010 now.

huh? what does that have to do with installs? and 2008 was "back then?"

Yes...2 years is a long time in "tech time"....especially in this case when Konami was new to the PS3 architecture.

They still did a great job....but the installs would be unnessesary if done today.

how do you know?

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="clone01"]

huh? what does that have to do with installs? and 2008 was "back then?"

CaseyWegner

Yes...2 years is a long time in "tech time"....especially in this case when Konami was new to the PS3 architecture.

They still did a great job....but the installs would be unnessesary if done today.

how do you know?

I'm back now.

And to answer your question, CaseyWegner:

Because of Uncharted 2.

That's how I know.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

i did ask another question.

CaseyWegner

I'm not following you.

I have to run out for 30 mins, but I'll be back.

you seemed happy to close the cgi section of your case but you were also talking about gameplay resolution. what happened to that part?

I'm still not following you....or maybe, it's you that's not following.

Snugenz was the one trying to break up the "gameplay" and the cutscenes of FF13 as if to imply one entity was more important than the other.

I shot that down wholeheartedly and decisively because the CGI is in fact part of the game......it is in fact what Square does on almost all of their games and it is in fact a major part of Final Fantasy's historied appeal.

576p and compressed 720p was < PS3's version and it was made so because of the lack of BluRay.

Anyone can attempt to argue the contrary all day and night 100 times.....they'd be wrong each and everytime....period.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I'm not following you.

I have to run out for 30 mins, but I'll be back.

Persistantthug

you seemed happy to close the cgi section of your case but you were also talking about gameplay resolution. what happened to that part?

I'm still not following you....or maybe, it's you that's not following.

Snugenz was the one trying to break up the "gameplay" and the cutscenes of FF13 as if to imply one entity was more important than the other.

I shot that down wholeheartedly and decisively because the CGI is in fact part of the game......it is in fact what Square does on almost all of their games and it is in fact a major part of Final Fantasy's historied appeal.

576p and compressed 720p was < PS3's version and it was made so because of the lack of BluRay.

Anyone can attempt to argue the contrary all day and night 100 times.....they'd be wrong each and everytime....period.

Gameplay is more important than CGI and BluRay doesnt effect the gameplay at all.

So as Casey asked, what does BluRay have to do with the gameplay resolution?.

Final Fantasy 13 is what it is Snugenz..........

It is what it is.

blu- ray is an advantage in storage space, but it doesn't make graphics, or resolution better, both consoles can only crunch through 512mb of data at any time, blu-ray does not increase the amount of data the console can deal with at any one time, people also seem to forget that the 360 has more useable memory, which means it can push a larger amount of data at any one time, there, it also makes me laugh when people talk about lossless audio, last i hearsd the Ps3 can only output 5.1 dolby digital (according to it's specifications) blu-ray is an advantage if you want longer games, but it cannot increase graphical fidelity which is limited to the amount of data that can actually be processed by the console, which is 512mb, i agree that it is an advantage, but it certainly is not a neccessity, unless of course you are too lazy to change discs, DVD has not really reached it's limit yet either, games like farcry 2, huge massive open world games only take up 4.5 gb on my HDD, i find very few games take up the full 6.8gb on the HDD, a lot of the data on 360 games discs is actually duplicated to increase read times, NXE doesn't install the duplicate data, so it shows you the Atual size of the game itself, blu-ray is not used to it's full advatage though, as games on the 360 like ME2,risen and fable are generally longer than most Ps3 exclusives, it really is pointless talking about an advantage that nobody seems to be using at all.delta3074

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I'm not following you.

I have to run out for 30 mins, but I'll be back.

Persistantthug

you seemed happy to close the cgi section of your case but you were also talking about gameplay resolution. what happened to that part?

I'm still not following you....or maybe, it's you that's not following.

Snugenz was the one trying to break up the "gameplay" and the cutscenes of FF13 as if to imply one entity was more important than the other.

I shot that down wholeheartedly and decisively because the CGI is in fact part of the game......it is in fact what Square does on almost all of their games and it is in fact a major part of Final Fantasy's historied appeal.

576p and compressed 720p was < PS3's version and it was made so because of the lack of BluRay.

Anyone can attempt to argue the contrary all day and night 100 times.....they'd be wrong each and everytime....period.

you were not talking about cgi. you were talking about gameplay. you even mentioned the fact that the game was turn based. that had nothing to do with cgi.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Yes...2 years is a long time in "tech time"....especially in this case when Konami was new to the PS3 architecture.

They still did a great job....but the installs would be unnessesary if done today.

Persistantthug

how do you know?

I'm back now.

And to answer your question, CaseyWegner:

Because of Uncharted 2.

That's how I know.

uncharted =/= mgs4

do me a favor and don't constantly address me by my username. i know you're talking to me because you are quoting me.

Final Fantasy 13 is what it is Snugenz..........

It is what it is.