PS3 and Xbox 360 maybe equally as powerful,but Blu-Ray gives PS3 the edge

Final Fantasy 13 is what it is Snugenz..........

It is what it is.

Persistantthug

Using my username and stating the obvious doesnt make people forget what your previous posts alluded to.

[QUOTE="lpjazzman220"]

with bluray....games can be longer than 5 hours.....but if ur doin multiplat....u get mw2 and scc......definately bluray helps games be awesome.....most developers arnt willing to make multi/single player games on more than one disk.....but i think that bluray could make for games being longer and imo worth 60usd....the 360 is holding gaming back because its dvd only format is too small for a game.....when i install a game on my pc.....that has 2 dvds to install with it ends up being between 7 and 18 gig......u just cant do that on one dvd.....when i installed cod4 it was really small...but then the game was really short......so i think that bluray allows for more texture work and longer gameplay because.....well.....40 gig is alot bigger than 4.7........damn microsoft for being cost effective and not thinking down the line.......

monson21502

and i beat halo 3 in one play thru....played the multiplayer for a week....sold it....i play my friends copy occasionally....not impressed......l4d....the whole game (each campaign back to back) is less than 5 hours.......sry.........gears of war.....i cant explain considering as how it was huge when installed on pc....oh wait thats cause it had low res textures and no aa.......but really cant explain how that fit on 1 dvd but when u look at geow 2 ....its many hours shorter than the original......impressive....with the extra graphics they packed in it to make it look better and the better physics they programed in....they made the campaign shorter.....blue dragon ive never played.....and the only psn or arcade game ive played is castle crashers.....so i cant really speak to that.....but i know all of those games are under 5 gig.....and for massive.....mass effect is an exception as is ff13 considering as how they are on multiple dvd's....u cant put a multiplayer/single player game on 1 dvd and except a long game.....lets face it splinter cell conviction....the best part was the coop campaign and that only lasted 5 hours or so......as did the single player campaign.....see where im goin with this......bluray can allow for longer games....doesnt mean that it happens it would also require producers to allow developers to make their games correctly...but 40 gig can allow for many more hours of scripting than 4.7

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

how do you know?

CaseyWegner

I'm back now.

And to answer your question, CaseyWegner:

Because of Uncharted 2.

That's how I know.

uncharted =/= mgs4

do me a favor and don't constantly address me by my username. i know you're talking to me because you are quoting me.

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. While still somewhat impressive graphically today, MGS4 is not more graphically intensive than the best of todays games. MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all.

Secondly,

:question:

Your name isn't CaseyWegner?

but 40 gig can allow for many more hours of scripting than 4.7lpjazzman220

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. Persistantthug

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I'm still not following you....or maybe, it's you that's not following.

Snugenz was the one trying to break up the "gameplay" and the cutscenes of FF13 as if to imply one entity was more important than the other.

I shot that down wholeheartedly and decisively because the CGI is in fact part of the game......it is in fact what Square does on almost all of their games and it is in fact a major part of Final Fantasy's historied appeal.

576p and compressed 720p was < PS3's version and it was made so because of the lack of BluRay.

Anyone can attempt to argue the contrary all day and night 100 times.....they'd be wrong each and everytime....period.

Persistantthug

you were not talking about cgi. you were talking about gameplay. you even mentioned the fact that the game was turn based. that had nothing to do with cgi.

I think you may have misunderstood the context of what Snugenz and I were talking about.

Snugenz was trying to compare the RDR and FF13's disparity as an engine failure and/or "lead develop" issue.

I pointed out that FF13's disparity was not the above mentioned issues nor was it a power issue because turn based JRPG's are not "power intesive" games. The disparity is cleary an issue of Storage.

I'm very perplexed and confused about why anyone would bother to dispute this.....especially you because you are typically a reasonable guy from what I have seen.

Even with DVD support, PS2 can't match Xbox 360's 3D rendering performance.I hope you know the difference between primary storage vs secondary storage.

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. While still somewhat impressive graphically today, MGS4 is not more graphically intensive than the best of todays games. MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all.

Secondly,

:question:

Your name isn't CaseyWegner?

[QUOTE="normal_gamer"]

I think that both the PS3 and Xbox 360 are nearly equal in hardware power,however Blu-Ray storage gives the PS3 the edge. It allows for far more data to be stored on a single disk,and there are also 33GB single-layer Blu-Rays in development so that could potentially favor the PS3 in terms of hardware capabilities.

Discuss.

Thanks.

First, the PS3 and 360 are not equal in power.

To claim equal power but then to not show equal results is fruitless and ludicrous.

But yes, BluRay gives PS3 another significant edge.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. While still somewhat impressive graphically today, MGS4 is not more graphically intensive than the best of todays games. MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all.

Secondly,

:question:

Your name isn't CaseyWegner?

clone01

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I'm not following you.

I have to run out for 30 mins, but I'll be back.

you seemed happy to close the cgi section of your case but you were also talking about gameplay resolution. what happened to that part?

I'm still not following you....or maybe, it's you that's not following.

Snugenz was the one trying to break up the "gameplay" and the cutscenes of FF13 as if to imply one entity was more important than the other.

I shot that down wholeheartedly and decisively because the CGI is in fact part of the game......it is in fact what Square does on almost all of their games and it is in fact a major part of Final Fantasy's historied appeal.

576p and compressed 720p was < PS3's version and it was made so because of the lack of BluRay.

Anyone can attempt to argue the contrary all day and night 100 times.....they'd be wrong each and everytime....period.

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

Persistantthug

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. While still somewhat impressive graphically today, MGS4 is not more graphically intensive than the best of todays games. MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all.

Secondly,

:question:

Your name isn't CaseyWegner?

Persistantthug

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

Emm, nice skybox game you have there. Hows UC2's transparencies again?

Tech? let's categories the tech leadership... starting with triangles.

Uncharted has 2, 1.2 million triangles per frame- http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/uncharted-2-mastering-the-cell-blog-entry

RE5 has 3-4 million polygons per frame http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-resident-evil-5-article

Btw, RE5 has HDR...

Polygons are made up of triangles. http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article425.asp

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

IronBass

No...

It also proves developers today are learning how to do what wasn't ability possible yesterday.

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. While still somewhat impressive graphically today, MGS4 is not more graphically intensive than the best of todays games. MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all.

Secondly,

:question:

Your name isn't CaseyWegner?

Persistantthug

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

No... It also proves developers today are learning how to do what wasn't ability possible yesterday.Persistantthug

That does not need proof. The more time devs spend with one system, the more they learn about it. That's a very well known fact.

UC2 not needing an install does not mean anything when discussing other games from different devs.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

clone01

Best looking is subjective....

Most technically advanced is not.

Uncharted 2 is the current benchmark for the latter.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I'm back now.

And to answer your question, CaseyWegner:

Because of Uncharted 2.

That's how I know.

Persistantthug

uncharted =/= mgs4

do me a favor and don't constantly address me by my username. i know you're talking to me because you are quoting me.

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. While still somewhat impressive graphically today, MGS4 is not more graphically intensive than the best of todays games. MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all.

Secondly,

:question:

Your name isn't CaseyWegner?

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

Best looking is subjective....

Most technically advanced is not.

Uncharted 2 is the current benchmark for the latter.

Uncharted 2 is the current benchmark for the latter.Persistantthug

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

Persistantthug

Best looking is subjective....

Most technically advanced is not.

Uncharted 2 is the current benchmark for the latter.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I'm back now.

And to answer your question, CaseyWegner:

Because of Uncharted 2.

That's how I know.

Persistantthug

uncharted =/= mgs4

do me a favor and don't constantly address me by my username. i know you're talking to me because you are quoting me.

First, of course, but so much has been learned of PS3 programing and much has been advanced. While still somewhat impressive graphically today, MGS4 is not more graphically intensive than the best of todays games. MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all.

Secondly,

:question:

Your name isn't CaseyWegner?

so you have no real way of knowing that it wouldn't require installations. got it.

it is my name but there's no reason to constantly address the person you're talking to.

oh, boy, here we go, how? first of all, while many do indeed feel that UC2 is the best looking console game to date it is still subjective. i personally felt that RE5 topped it, and assassin's creed 2, when you consider the scale of the game. if i recall, UC 2 has fairly long loading times, something which konami decided to forego with installs. in other words, your making assumptions based on opinions rather than actual facts. i know nothing about how a game is made, or why things are accomplished certain ways, but i will at least admit it. i do not feel the need to state something like "the PS3 is 25% more powerful" or "my 360 RROD'd teh 8 timez, or "teh Wii gamez are for da kidz." i save loyalty for family, friends, and pets, not an inanimate piece of plastic backed by a corporation that wants nothing but your money. but, anyway, we've at least established that you speak from a point of view that completely questions your credibility.clone01

Best looking is subjective....

Most technically advanced is not.

Uncharted 2 is the current benchmark for the latter.

You can read UC2's lighting solution from http://www.slideshare.net/ozlael/hable-john-uncharted2-hdr-lighting Against KZ2's DRL, I don't see UC2's technical leadership. ronvalencia

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

Oh boy...here we go.

No I'm not a dev. What I do know is UNCHARTED 2 is the Pinnicle and benchmark for console graphics tech.

I also know there's no install. Care to ask me how I know that?

Persistantthug

Best looking is subjective....

Most technically advanced is not.

Uncharted 2 is the current benchmark for the latter.

I just read some of the last few posts and I think this thread is going in the wrong direction. There is NO point in arguing about games' engines. Do you want to know why? Because NO ONE here is a TI guy or an engineer. No one has enough knowledge about software to give an accurate opinion. So stop embarrasing yourselves and don't try to look smart.

I just read some of the last few posts and I think this thread is going in the wrong direction. There is NO point in arguing about games' engines. Do you want to know why? Because NO ONE here is a TI guy or an engineer. No one has enough knowledge about software to give an accurate opinion. So stop embarrasing yourselves and don't try to look smart.

GiveMeSomething

Some "IT guy" are just brain dead when it comes to software e.g. backing-up the OS drive with live DB (mission critical) = corrupt DB.

In AU, if I don't work in IT, I can't claim my IT expenses on my income tax.I always claim PC is cheaper than consoles.

I mostly program in C++/Win32/COM/MFC/ATL for a living.

My past hobbies

For DIY ViDOCK, I have modified PE4H's AMP fuse so it would work with external ATI Radeon HD 5770.

Kitbashed Direct3D 9b JIT software render Swiftshader with WinMESA OpenGL bridge, soI can run Quake 3 OpenGL onpure CPU.

People still arguing about this after Crysis on a single DvD was brought up?

People still arguing about this after Crysis on a single DvD was brought up?

treedoor

Crysis doesn't feature many cut-scenes, which is the main reason it could be fitted into one disc. Besides, the game looks good enough to rely on in-game cutscenes alone, no need for touched up in-engine cutscenes so often used in console games.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] please don't bring up install requirements. because the ps3 has many, and those HD games your talking about that don't have required installs? use comprehensive hard drive caches of 4 or so gigs in size and stream from both disk and hard drive to attain their no load times...or invisible load times since the games still have load times a long initial load time and others throughout. but no installs have nothing to do with Resolution, which you seem to constantly be stuck on...when the ps3 doesn't have more sub hd games then the 360 then you can talk. till then it does.Persistantthug

I never said installs have anything to do with resolution, and I'm not "constantly" stuck on it.

The only reason this came up was because someone else mentioned MGS4 which is 2 years old and had a mass of installs. Now in 2010, game developers have learned to curb those. In fact MGS4 is the only PS3 game that has incessant installs, and it was likely do to Konami's lack of PS3 knowledge.

But once again, you bring up Beyond 3D's resolutions that are mostly based on 2-3 year old games from when much less was known about PS3's architecture. You seem to relish on not being genuine about the issue.....and I hate to sound like I'm slighting you, but that's exactly what you are doing.....not being genuine.

People still arguing about this after Crysis on a single DvD was brought up?

treedoor

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

People still arguing about this after Crysis on a single DvD was brought up?

fireballonfire

Crysis doesn't feature many cut-scenes, which is the main reason it could be fitted into one disc. Besides, the game looks good enough to rely on in-game cutscenes alone, no need for touched up in-engine cutscenes so often used in console games.

Top notch console games such as UC2 and KZ2 are actually filled with scripted events during gameplay. If something gets blown up, the explosion and the impact plays out like a movie clip (same pattern)instead of actually being calculated by a physics engine.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

People still arguing about this after Crysis on a single DvD was brought up?

normal_gamer

Crysis on a single DvD adds up to nearly 2 DvDs?

:o

[QUOTE="normal_gamer"][QUOTE="treedoor"]

People still arguing about this after Crysis on a single DvD was brought up?

treedoor

Crysis on a single DvD adds up to nearly 2 DvDs?

:o

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]Uh, HOW does Blu Ray add anything to processing power? :?normal_gamer

[QUOTE="normal_gamer"][QUOTE="charizard1605"]Uh, HOW does Blu Ray add anything to processing power? :?shinrabanshou

When BluRay drives of the similar speeds to DVD are more affordable, presumably next gen, then it will likely improve the graphical quality of games.

[QUOTE="normal_gamer"][QUOTE="charizard1605"]Uh, HOW does Blu Ray add anything to processing power? :?imprezawrx500

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

People still arguing about this after Crysis on a single DvD was brought up?

normal_gamer

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] please don't bring up install requirements. because the ps3 has many, and those HD games your talking about that don't have required installs? use comprehensive hard drive caches of 4 or so gigs in size and stream from both disk and hard drive to attain their no load times...or invisible load times since the games still have load times a long initial load time and others throughout. but no installs have nothing to do with Resolution, which you seem to constantly be stuck on...when the ps3 doesn't have more sub hd games then the 360 then you can talk. till then it does.Persistantthug

I never said installs have anything to do with resolution, and I'm not "constantly" stuck on it.

The only reason this came up was because someone else mentioned MGS4 which is 2 years old and had a mass of installs. Now in 2010, game developers have learned to curb those. In fact MGS4 is the only PS3 game that has incessant installs, and it was likely do to Konami's lack of PS3 knowledge.

But once again, you bring up Beyond 3D's resolutions that are mostly based on 2-3 year old games from when much less was known about PS3's architecture. You seem to relish on not being genuine about the issue.....and I hate to sound like I'm slighting you, but that's exactly what you are doing.....not being genuine.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I never said installs have anything to do with resolution, and I'm not "constantly" stuck on it.

The only reason this came up was because someone else mentioned MGS4 which is 2 years old and had a mass of installs. Now in 2010, game developers have learned to curb those. In fact MGS4 is the only PS3 game that has incessant installs, and it was likely do to Konami's lack of PS3 knowledge.

But once again, you bring up Beyond 3D's resolutions that are mostly based on 2-3 year old games from when much less was known about PS3's architecture. You seem to relish on not being genuine about the issue.....and I hate to sound like I'm slighting you, but that's exactly what you are doing.....not being genuine.

You've interpreted what I said out of context, WilliamRLBaker.

I neither said nor believed that installs "reflect higher resolutions". Feel free to read my response to clone01 back on page 7 if you indeed are trying to "get up to speed". He is the reason why MGS4 was even mentioned by me in the first place...he did first. And interestingly, he was doing pretty much what you do and did......bring up old games in an attempt to make his point when he and everyone else knows why things were the way they were back 2 and 3 years ago in regards to PS3's then "alien'ish" architecture. That's disingenuine.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] "'MGS 4 is sub HD while the best of the best of today is full HD, some with no install requirements at all."" seems to me your saying exactly that installs some how reflect higher resolutions, those are your words.clone01

You've interpreted what I said out of context, WilliamRLBaker.

I neither said nor believed that installs "reflect higher resolutions". Feel free to read my response to clone01 back on page 7 if you indeed are trying to "get up to speed". He is the reason why MGS4 was even mentioned by me in the first place...he did first. And interestingly, he was doing pretty much what you do and did......bring up old games in an attempt to make his point when he and everyone else knows why things were the way they were back 2 and 3 years ago in regards to PS3's then "alien'ish" architecture. That's disingenuine.

I like red, it's one of my favorite colors.

As far as your name being brought up, WilliamRLBaker seemed to be having a misunderstanding of what the MGS4 issue was all about here. Since you were involved in the particular conversation, your name has been brought forth....justifiably.

If you take offense to it, I do hope you understand.