Hackers are like roaches kill one, and two pop up out of know where. I guess Sony has to try something, but lawsuits are without a doubt not the way to go.
PS3 Hacker Tells Sony to Back Off or Else...
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This is not gonna end well for sony for the part that gehot has to turn over his computers any tampering with his stuff for whatever legal reason will have them paying dearly for this. This has also set a bad precident for law in general. How do you sue someone in another state and then have a decision upheld even if you dont live there? There are scholars going crazy over this and i can see why this judge and this case is gonna be infamous because it can be used any context a coporation sees fit.
"It's my right to do what I want even if it does hinder other people's gameplay experience!! Wah"
edit: Agreed with poster below if those were his true words. What an idiot
Then it's also sony's right to f him up then, lol idiots never learn. This guy seems to have some social and mental problems to me.[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
You mean like they can't with Geohot's PS3? Oh wait, they just have basically.
My point is, when you go to the shop, to buy the PS3, you own the hardware. You do no own the software. You did not plow money into the software, nor did you make any part of the software. So you have no moral rights to then start hacking into the software. Morally, there is no grey area what so ever. Legally maybe, but in my opinion there shouldn't be.spinecaton
Geohot's is a little different because he was distributing something, so you really can't compare it.
So you are saying every software you buy whether it is for your PC, PS3, Xbox 360, your phone, practically anything that has a screen... we never own it, because we did not write the code for it.
edit: not that I don't agree with the statement of closed software versus open software, just think you are expressing the opinion wrong. Stick using the closed software term instead of what we own and don't own. :P
You don't own it, never will. The software is licensed out to you to use, but you will own the software.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="Remmib"]
Lol at the morality of hacking.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with hacking the software, unless you were planning on doing something such as pirating or whatever.
HuusAsking
You don't own nor did you make said software. Regardless of what you will do with the hack, what moral rights do you have to hack into something you don't own?
Stupid analogy time. Forget laws here for a second. What would you do if every Tom, Dick and Harry walked into your open house on a hot summers days? What moral right do they have to walk into a house they don't own? None do they unbless you incite them in, but you didn't do that.
Same principle here. You don't own nor did you make the PS3 software, so there for, what moral rights do you have to start hacking something you don't own?Bad analogy. The house equates to the console itself: hardware. More closely is someone taking your family pictures (or taking snapshots of your family pictures). But what if you buy the house and chuck out all the personal belongings of the last owner, leaving you with just the bare house? Come to think of it, that's usually what happens when you sell a house, doesn't it? So who not here with the PS3? Chuck out everything from the last owner and put in your own stuff.
It's not a bad analogy, it's just a stupid one, but one that makes sense.
The fact you wouldn't like people walking into your house uninvited speaks volumes. They have no moral rights to be there, it's your house. Just as we don't have any moral rights to hack something we do not own, nor made.
I have no sympathy for these hackers. My respect for humanity goes down so much after I see some of these hackers act as if they're in the right after they ruin everyone else's experiences.
Bad analogy. The house equates to the console itself: hardware. More closely is someone taking your family pictures (or taking snapshots of your family pictures). But what if you buy the house and chuck out all the personal belongings of the last owner, leaving you with just the bare house? Come to think of it, that's usually what happens when you sell a house, doesn't it? So who not here with the PS3? Chuck out everything from the last owner and put in your own stuff.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
You don't own nor did you make said software. Regardless of what you will do with the hack, what moral rights do you have to hack into something you don't own?
Stupid analogy time. Forget laws here for a second. What would you do if every Tom, Dick and Harry walked into your open house on a hot summers days? What moral right do they have to walk into a house they don't own? None do they unbless you incite them in, but you didn't do that.
Same principle here. You don't own nor did you make the PS3 software, so there for, what moral rights do you have to start hacking something you don't own?shawty1984
It's not a bad analogy, it's just a stupid one, but one that makes sense.
The fact you wouldn't like people walking into your house uninvited speaks volumes. They have no moral rights to be there, it's your house. Just as we don't have any moral rights to hack something we do not own, nor made.Thing is, we do own it (the PS3, the house). Otherwise, property rights (a basic tenet of civilization) aren't worth squat. That's what sales are all about: transfers of property (and retailers can only buy or sell--so we can only buy from retailers). Sure, you may not want people walking into your house uninvited, but there's nothing you can do if they're the new owners.
You ever thought that perhaps they think it's Sony who's ruining everyone else's experiences by taking away things from consoles people already bought. Think to the Kindle and the 1984 scandal. Indeed, think about the implications of 1984 itself: that you're not in control of anything: that the concept of property essentially doesn't exist.I have no sympathy for these hackers. My respect for humanity goes down so much after I see some of these hackers act as if they're in the right after they ruin everyone else's experiences.
Giant_Panda
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Bad analogy. The house equates to the console itself: hardware. More closely is someone taking your family pictures (or taking snapshots of your family pictures). But what if you buy the house and chuck out all the personal belongings of the last owner, leaving you with just the bare house? Come to think of it, that's usually what happens when you sell a house, doesn't it? So who not here with the PS3? Chuck out everything from the last owner and put in your own stuff.
HuusAsking
It's not a bad analogy, it's just a stupid one, but one that makes sense.
The fact you wouldn't like people walking into your house uninvited speaks volumes. They have no moral rights to be there, it's your house. Just as we don't have any moral rights to hack something we do not own, nor made.Thing is, we do own it (the PS3, the house). Otherwise, property rights (a basic tenet of civilization) aren't worth squat. That's what sales are all about: transfers of property (and retailers can only buy or sell--so we can only buy from retailers). Sure, you may not want people walking into your house uninvited, but there's nothing you can do if they're the new owners.
You own the PS3 hardware, not the PS3 software.
And if they are not the new owners? The point being, morally, they have no rights to be inside your house. Just as hackers have no right hacking SONY'S software. It's a pretty simple concept. The analogy is over the moral rights of doing something. Hacking the PS3, entering a house that is not yours uninvited.
Thing is, we do own it (the PS3, the house). Otherwise, property rights (a basic tenet of civilization) aren't worth squat. That's what sales are all about: transfers of property (and retailers can only buy or sell--so we can only buy from retailers). Sure, you may not want people walking into your house uninvited, but there's nothing you can do if they're the new owners.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
It's not a bad analogy, it's just a stupid one, but one that makes sense.
The fact you wouldn't like people walking into your house uninvited speaks volumes. They have no moral rights to be there, it's your house. Just as we don't have any moral rights to hack something we do not own, nor made.shawty1984
You own the PS3 hardware, not the PS3 software.
And if they are not the new owners? The point being, morally, they have no rights to be inside your house. Just as hackers have no right hacking SONY'S software. It's a pretty simple concept. The analogy is over the moral rights of doing something. Hacking the PS3, entering a house that is not yours uninvited. You are truly uninformed.
Most of these "hackers" really mean no harm, its just a hobby of theirs, Geohot and kakarot do it out of their spare time for fun, they didnt allow backups full stop
but of course there is a few that take it really serious
[QUOTE="Giant_Panda"]You ever thought that perhaps they think it's Sony who's ruining everyone else's experiences by taking away things from consoles people already bought. Think to the Kindle and the 1984 scandal. Indeed, think about the implications of 1984 itself: that you're not in control of anything: that the concept of property essentially doesn't exist.I have no sympathy for these hackers. My respect for humanity goes down so much after I see some of these hackers act as if they're in the right after they ruin everyone else's experiences.
HuusAsking
They never took it away, it is still there, they gave people a choice. Regardless of this, it happened because hackers werfe hacking into Sony's software. Blame the hackers, not Sony. Any person would have done the same thing trying to protect themselves and the consumers who bought there product.
I'm just gonna sit back and let the battle unfold.
They are all doing a great job i hope the ps3 get more open, hell just look at all the progress these few months.
80% of people on system wars cry over **** they don't know anything about.Robbazking
If you wanted a open system console, why did you buy the PS3 which is a closed system console?
That guy's gonna go to jail because he won't have enough money to pay up after Sony sues him.bbkkristian
its honestly not worth for Sony to take him to court, or anyone, they really should just backoff and start mass ban waving like microsoft, you cant stop piracy
You ever thought that perhaps they think it's Sony who's ruining everyone else's experiences by taking away things from consoles people already bought. Think to the Kindle and the 1984 scandal. Indeed, think about the implications of 1984 itself: that you're not in control of anything: that the concept of property essentially doesn't exist.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="Giant_Panda"]
I have no sympathy for these hackers. My respect for humanity goes down so much after I see some of these hackers act as if they're in the right after they ruin everyone else's experiences.
shawty1984
They never took it away, it is still there, they gave people a choice. Regardless of this, it happened because hackers werfe hacking into Sony's software. Blame the hackers, not Sony. Any person would have done the same thing trying to protect themselves and the consumers who bought there product. Choice? Update or be left behind. Sony did this to themselves they **** up and now people are pissed.
And people on system wars make a massive outcry on hackers "they probably think it will ruin their experience". I can only facepalm.
I'm happy due the enormous progress the homebrew community is doing.
Thing is, we do own it (the PS3, the house). Otherwise, property rights (a basic tenet of civilization) aren't worth squat. That's what sales are all about: transfers of property (and retailers can only buy or sell--so we can only buy from retailers). Sure, you may not want people walking into your house uninvited, but there's nothing you can do if they're the new owners.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
It's not a bad analogy, it's just a stupid one, but one that makes sense.
The fact you wouldn't like people walking into your house uninvited speaks volumes. They have no moral rights to be there, it's your house. Just as we don't have any moral rights to hack something we do not own, nor made.shawty1984
You own the PS3 hardware, not the PS3 software.
And if they are not the new owners? The point being, morally, they have no rights to be inside your house. Just as hackers have no right hacking SONY'S software. It's a pretty simple concept. The analogy is over the moral rights of doing something. Hacking the PS3, entering a house that is not yours uninvited.Hacking a PS3 is not breaking into a house. The house is the PS3 itself, which we bought (unless you're saying every retailer in the world are duly designated as agents of Sony and thus given the legal power to lease the consoles (seems to fly in the face of any trade law I can imagine))? Sony's software represents the effects within the house--belonging to the previous owner. Sure, we're not allowed to break them or otherwise mess with them, but we canmove them out of the house which we now own (which would be like gutting the PS3's internal software and putting in our own. Put it like this. If Sony can get away with this, wouldn't you think Microsoft would prevent you from installing Linux on your prebuilt PC? Because they present the same scenario.
PS. And before you say a PS3 is useless without the Sony software, consider that a PS3 also contains:
- 1 programmable Cell CPU that has floating-point capabilities that could make things like rendering and media encoding a much easier job than on x86 processors.
- 1 RSX GPU. Decent enough for homebrew jobs.
- 256MB XDRAM and 256MB GDDR SDRAM.
- Ethernet and WiFi
- 1 BluRay drive
- 2-3 USB ports
- HDMI output.
And all for much less than a comparably-equipped PC. IOW, someone with access to that alone would probably find some interesting uses for it, just as someone with access to a beat-up car may see things in there worth keeping.
Wow you people are so misinformed. Not EVERYONE that now codes for the PS3 are people that want to cheat in multiplayer games or run illegal copies of games. With the key released by geohot, people can now write any kind of application for the PS3 and run it. A homebrew community for such well established device is nothing to scoff at, people can make original games to play on your console, people can add features to your console free of charge, etc etc the possibilities are endless and everyone should have the right to do all of this with the console they payed their hard earned money with, instead you people just want more control over your silly little console. In fact, jailbreaking a device, as long as it isn't done for stealing software, is considered "Fair Use" by the DMCA and is completely legal, but of course Sony has tons of cash to pay judges and get what they want. Of course when people read "FREE GAMES" they flock to the homebrew community with questions as to how they can steal games but that IS NOT everything there is to these communities. Needless to say, if it wasn't possible to install homebrew applications on my Wii I would've sold it years ago.nintendog66
You own the console hardware, not the software. The console hardware is pretty useless withgout Sony's software running on it. If people wanted an open system console, they shouldn't have bought the PS3 which is a closed system console. The hackers and coders have no moral rights regardless of local laws by hacking into a software which they don't own nor did they make it. It is licensed to them for them to use, not for them to hack into.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Thing is, we do own it (the PS3, the house). Otherwise, property rights (a basic tenet of civilization) aren't worth squat. That's what sales are all about: transfers of property (and retailers can only buy or sell--so we can only buy from retailers). Sure, you may not want people walking into your house uninvited, but there's nothing you can do if they're the new owners.
Robbazking
You own the PS3 hardware, not the PS3 software.
And if they are not the new owners? The point being, morally, they have no rights to be inside your house. Just as hackers have no right hacking SONY'S software. It's a pretty simple concept. The analogy is over the moral rights of doing something. Hacking the PS3, entering a house that is not yours uninvited. You are truly uninformed.
Am I? Tell me which part of Sony's software I and each of us who bought a PS3 now own?
Oh stop it you make me laugh.
You are truly uninformed.[QUOTE="Robbazking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
You own the PS3 hardware, not the PS3 software.
And if they are not the new owners? The point being, morally, they have no rights to be inside your house. Just as hackers have no right hacking SONY'S software. It's a pretty simple concept. The analogy is over the moral rights of doing something. Hacking the PS3, entering a house that is not yours uninvited.shawty1984
Am I? Tell me which part of Sony's software I and each of us who bought a PS3 now own?None. But the point is, we don't have to keep it. It's not like the software and hardware are inseperable. Otherwise, the PS3 can never be sold.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]You ever thought that perhaps they think it's Sony who's ruining everyone else's experiences by taking away things from consoles people already bought. Think to the Kindle and the 1984 scandal. Indeed, think about the implications of 1984 itself: that you're not in control of anything: that the concept of property essentially doesn't exist.Robbazking
They never took it away, it is still there, they gave people a choice. Regardless of this, it happened because hackers werfe hacking into Sony's software. Blame the hackers, not Sony. Any person would have done the same thing trying to protect themselves and the consumers who bought there product. Choice? Update or be left behind. Sony did this to themselves they **** up and now people are pissed.
And people on system wars make a massive outcry on hackers "they probably think it will ruin their experience". I can only facepalm.
I'm happy due the enormous progress the homebrew community is doing.
Yes choice. Update and you are allowed to use Sony's network or don't update and you keep OtherOS but lose the network. It was a pretty simple choice. They never actually took it away, which is why I replied, it is still there. Sony never did anything, the OtherOS was getting hacked before they took it away and was the reason they took it away. The hackers started this and because Sony fought back, they got annoyed.
I have not been on COD MW2 because since all this mess, the online MP as got worse due to cheats. So infact, yes it has ruined my experiance.
You might be happy, others are not.
Choice? Update or be left behind. Sony did this to themselves they **** up and now people are pissed.[QUOTE="Robbazking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
They never took it away, it is still there, they gave people a choice. Regardless of this, it happened because hackers werfe hacking into Sony's software. Blame the hackers, not Sony. Any person would have done the same thing trying to protect themselves and the consumers who bought there product.shawty1984
And people on system wars make a massive outcry on hackers "they probably think it will ruin their experience". I can only facepalm.
I'm happy due the enormous progress the homebrew community is doing.
Yes choice. Update and you are allowed to use Sony's network or don't update and you keep OtherOS but lose the network. It was a pretty simple choice. They never actually took it away, which is why I replied, it is still there. Sony never did anything, the OtherOS was getting hacked before they took it away and was the reason they took it away. The hackers started this and because Sony fought back, they got annoyed.
I have not been on COD MW2 because since all this mess, the online MP as got worse due to cheats. So infact, yes it has ruined my experiance.
You might be happy, others are not.FTR, people have been cheating on MW2 well before the hacks started appearing.
Choice? Update or be left behind. Sony did this to themselves they **** up and now people are pissed.[QUOTE="Robbazking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
They never took it away, it is still there, they gave people a choice. Regardless of this, it happened because hackers werfe hacking into Sony's software. Blame the hackers, not Sony. Any person would have done the same thing trying to protect themselves and the consumers who bought there product.shawty1984
And people on system wars make a massive outcry on hackers "they probably think it will ruin their experience". I can only facepalm.
I'm happy due the enormous progress the homebrew community is doing.
Yes choice. Update and you are allowed to use Sony's network or don't update and you keep OtherOS but lose the network. It was a pretty simple choice. They never actually took it away, which is why I replied, it is still there. Sony never did anything, the OtherOS was getting hacked before they took it away and was the reason they took it away. The hackers started this and because Sony fought back, they got annoyed.
I have not been on COD MW2 because since all this mess, the online MP as got worse due to cheats. So infact, yes it has ruined my experiance.
You might be happy, others are not. Nope they took away a key future of the console and left the rest to rot.
Also i haven't seen any difference on multiplayer before or after this happened. You are overreacting.
Sonys reason "it was a threat", so they removed it and created a even bigger threat.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Thing is, we do own it (the PS3, the house). Otherwise, property rights (a basic tenet of civilization) aren't worth squat. That's what sales are all about: transfers of property (and retailers can only buy or sell--so we can only buy from retailers). Sure, you may not want people walking into your house uninvited, but there's nothing you can do if they're the new owners.
HuusAsking
You own the PS3 hardware, not the PS3 software.
And if they are not the new owners? The point being, morally, they have no rights to be inside your house. Just as hackers have no right hacking SONY'S software. It's a pretty simple concept. The analogy is over the moral rights of doing something. Hacking the PS3, entering a house that is not yours uninvited.Hacking a PS3 is not breaking into a house. The house is the PS3 itself, which we bought (unless you're saying every retailer in the world are duly designated as agents of Sony and thus given the legal power to lease the consoles (seems to fly in the face of any trade law I can imagine))? Sony's software represents the effects within the house--belonging to the previous owner. Sure, we're not allowed to break them or otherwise mess with them, but we canmove them out of the house which we now own (which would be like gutting the PS3's internal software and putting in our own. Put it like this. If Sony can get away with this, wouldn't you think Microsoft would prevent you from installing Linux on your prebuilt PC? Because they present the same scenario.
PS. And before you say a PS3 is useless without the Sony software, consider that a PS3 also contains:
- 1 programmable Cell CPU that has floating-point capabilities that could make things like rendering and media encoding a much easier job than on x86 processors.
- 1 RSX GPU. Decent enough for homebrew jobs.
- 256MB XDRAM and 256MB GDDR SDRAM.
- Ethernet and WiFi
- 1 BluRay drive
- 2-3 USB ports
- HDMI output.
And all for much less than a comparably-equipped PC. IOW, someone with access to that alone would probably find some interesting uses for it, just as someone with access to a beat-up car may see things in there worth keeping.
Sigh. I have already explained what my anaolgy was over. All yuou are doing is making your own analogy.
My anaolgy was about the moral rights of doing something. You have no moral rights hacking a software that does not belong to you just as you have no moral rights walking into a house you do not own.
The PS3 is useless without Sony's software, I will reperat that as many times as possible. Hacking into software that you do not own is morally wrong, hence the PS3 is useless without Sony's software. It's not obviously useless if other people right software for it, but doing sdo would be morally wrong. If they wanted to do that, they should have bought an open system console. If everyone is just going to wipe Sony;s software from the PS3, then the futore of consoles are in jepordy.
Oh stop it you make me laugh.
Robbazking
I will take that as you can't tell me then?
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="Robbazking"] You are truly uninformed.
HuusAsking
Am I? Tell me which part of Sony's software I and each of us who bought a PS3 now own?None. But the point is, we don't have to keep it. It's not like the software and hardware are inseperable. Otherwise, the PS3 can never be sold.
To install other software on the PS3, the PS3's own software has to be bypassed and hacked somewhere down the line. This is morally wrong, as you admit we do not own the PS3's hardware. If people want to install there own software, they should not be buying a closed system console. Leaving the legailitys out of this as it is a grey area, morally IT IS wrong. You do not own the software, so you have no right in hacking it to get rid of it, regardless of wether you own the hardware.
[QUOTE="Robbazking"]
Oh stop it you make me laugh.
shawty1984
I will take that as you can't tell me then? Why discuss with someone that put morals before logic. When what sony did also was moraly wrong :roll:
The key points is that it's not illegal, it won't ruin your experience! It will enhance others.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="Robbazking"] Choice? Update or be left behind. Sony did this to themselves they **** up and now people are pissed.
And people on system wars make a massive outcry on hackers "they probably think it will ruin their experience". I can only facepalm.
I'm happy due the enormous progress the homebrew community is doing.
HuusAsking
Yes choice. Update and you are allowed to use Sony's network or don't update and you keep OtherOS but lose the network. It was a pretty simple choice. They never actually took it away, which is why I replied, it is still there. Sony never did anything, the OtherOS was getting hacked before they took it away and was the reason they took it away. The hackers started this and because Sony fought back, they got annoyed.
I have not been on COD MW2 because since all this mess, the online MP as got worse due to cheats. So infact, yes it has ruined my experiance.
You might be happy, others are not.FTR, people have been cheating on MW2 well before the hacks started appearing.
I never said they hadn't. But as soon as the hacks started appearing, thats when the cheaters in COD MW2 went mainstream.
Hacking a PS3 is not breaking into a house. The house is the PS3 itself, which we bought (unless you're saying every retailer in the world are duly designated as agents of Sony and thus given the legal power to lease the consoles (seems to fly in the face of any trade law I can imagine))? Sony's software represents the effects within the house--belonging to the previous owner. Sure, we're not allowed to break them or otherwise mess with them, but we canmove them out of the house which we now own (which would be like gutting the PS3's internal software and putting in our own. Put it like this. If Sony can get away with this, wouldn't you think Microsoft would prevent you from installing Linux on your prebuilt PC? Because they present the same scenario.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
You own the PS3 hardware, not the PS3 software.
And if they are not the new owners? The point being, morally, they have no rights to be inside your house. Just as hackers have no right hacking SONY'S software. It's a pretty simple concept. The analogy is over the moral rights of doing something. Hacking the PS3, entering a house that is not yours uninvited.shawty1984
PS. And before you say a PS3 is useless without the Sony software, consider that a PS3 also contains:
- 1 programmable Cell CPU that has floating-point capabilities that could make things like rendering and media encoding a much easier job than on x86 processors.
- 1 RSX GPU. Decent enough for homebrew jobs.
- 256MB XDRAM and 256MB GDDR SDRAM.
- Ethernet and WiFi
- 1 BluRay drive
- 2-3 USB ports
- HDMI output.
And all for much less than a comparably-equipped PC. IOW, someone with access to that alone would probably find some interesting uses for it, just as someone with access to a beat-up car may see things in there worth keeping.
Sigh. I have already explained what my anaolgy was over. All yuou are doing is making your own analogy.
My anaolgy was about the moral rights of doing something. You have no moral rights hacking a software that does not belong to you just as you have no moral rights walking into a house you do not own.
The PS3 is useless without Sony's software, I will reperat that as many times as possible. Hacking into software that you do not own is morally wrong, hence the PS3 is useless without Sony's software. It's not obviously useless if other people right software for it, but doing sdo would be morally wrong. If they wanted to do that, they should have bought an open system console. If everyone is just going to wipe Sony;s software from the PS3, then the futore of consoles are in jepordy.And I've been trying to explain for nearly a whole page now that your argument is fundamentally flawed. If your analogy holds, then there would be no such thing as an open system. IOW, Microsoft can lock your PC into Windows because taking it out violates their rights (just as taking the Sony software out of a PS3 violates their rights). A PS3 is more than just the software, as I have enumerated. Hacking your PS3 is not like breaking into a house because the house is hardware. Unless the house is rented (or your PS3 is under RTO), what you do with a house/PS3 you buy is strictly your business. Sony's software isn't the house but rather the things inside it, since the house can still stand without the furniture and the PS3 still exists without the software. And since the software is treated as a whole. You can't do that with a house unless you pick it up and move it whole, which still leaves it intact.
A large majority of the post in this tread, makes me slowly realise why I can't play online on consoles anymore. It's not because of hacks or cfw I can tell you that.
kaealy
Yeah it's pretty weird how people think hackers are doing something illegal here (jury's out) and all deserve to be put in front of a firing squad. I believe most of them are interested in opening up the security so they can run homebrew, there's nothing wrong with that. The cheating and piracy are unfortunate and unintended side effects. There absolutely are irredeemable ****oles out there who are working the destructive angle, and those people should be punished, but it's pretty ignorant to assume this is all hackers are about. Just as it's dumb to assume everyone running custom firmware is a cheating pirate.
With that said, everyone knows what's eventually going to happen once a hack is published. Regardless of the motivation or intention of the hack, the end result is always s***. And when the s*** hits the fan you'll look a right turd.
I have nothing against homebrew and support the idea of owning and being able to modify your property, but when it's at the expense of piracy and online cheats, when it affects a vast amount of other people negatively, I don't think it's something you should do.
I hope this whole mess somehow ends up creating a situation where homebrew is legal and possible without the ill side effects. I also wish for peace on Earth.
The PS3 is a closed console system, if you didn't want one of them, then why would you buy one?That's a bit beside the point, which is that if you own something you should be able to do what you want with it within the confines of the law.shawty1984
Like, I didn't buy a PS3 to run homebrew apps, but if the option's there, I might some day.
Anyway, yes, grey area.
FTR, people have been cheating on MW2 well before the hacks started appearing.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
Yes choice. Update and you are allowed to use Sony's network or don't update and you keep OtherOS but lose the network. It was a pretty simple choice. They never actually took it away, which is why I replied, it is still there. Sony never did anything, the OtherOS was getting hacked before they took it away and was the reason they took it away. The hackers started this and because Sony fought back, they got annoyed.
I have not been on COD MW2 because since all this mess, the online MP as got worse due to cheats. So infact, yes it has ruined my experiance.
You might be happy, others are not.shawty1984
I never said they hadn't. But as soon as the hacks started appearing, thats when the cheaters in COD MW2 went mainstream.They've always been mainstream.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="Robbazking"] Choice? Update or be left behind. Sony did this to themselves they **** up and now people are pissed.
And people on system wars make a massive outcry on hackers "they probably think it will ruin their experience". I can only facepalm.
I'm happy due the enormous progress the homebrew community is doing.
Robbazking
Yes choice. Update and you are allowed to use Sony's network or don't update and you keep OtherOS but lose the network. It was a pretty simple choice. They never actually took it away, which is why I replied, it is still there. Sony never did anything, the OtherOS was getting hacked before they took it away and was the reason they took it away. The hackers started this and because Sony fought back, they got annoyed.
I have not been on COD MW2 because since all this mess, the online MP as got worse due to cheats. So infact, yes it has ruined my experiance.
You might be happy, others are not. Nope they took away a key future of the console and left the rest to rot.
Also i haven't seen any difference on multiplayer before or after this happened. You are overreacting.
Sonys reason "it was a threat", so they removed it and created a even bigger threat.
They never took it away, it is still there to use if you don't update your firmware. Doing so does not let you access Sony's network or some new games. One thing they never did though was take it away. They gave you a choice regardless of wether you like the choice or not.
And I have. Just because you haven't, doesn't mean anyone else hasn't.
What Sony do with their own software is up to them. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But one thing they can't do is just sit there and let it happen. They have to be shown to be doing something, just because of their investers.
Lol, what a dumbass, he's going to go to jail for blackmail now in addition to the same things they sued Geohotz for. It this stuff really worth getting arrested over..? Just give it a break hackers...
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="Robbazking"]
Oh stop it you make me laugh.
Robbazking
I will take that as you can't tell me then? Why discuss with someone that put morals before logic. When what sony did also was moraly wrong :roll:
The key points is that it's not illegal, it won't ruin your experience! It will enhance others.
So you still can't tell me? It was a pretty simple question which someone has already asnwered, so why can't you?
What Sony done was not morally wrong. They were trying to protect their own software. A software they own and we don't.
Nope they took away a key future of the console and left the rest to rot.[QUOTE="Robbazking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
Yes choice. Update and you are allowed to use Sony's network or don't update and you keep OtherOS but lose the network. It was a pretty simple choice. They never actually took it away, which is why I replied, it is still there. Sony never did anything, the OtherOS was getting hacked before they took it away and was the reason they took it away. The hackers started this and because Sony fought back, they got annoyed.
I have not been on COD MW2 because since all this mess, the online MP as got worse due to cheats. So infact, yes it has ruined my experiance.
You might be happy, others are not.shawty1984
Also i haven't seen any difference on multiplayer before or after this happened. You are overreacting.
Sonys reason "it was a threat", so they removed it and created a even bigger threat.
They never took it away, it is still there to use if you don't update your firmware. Doing so does not let you access Sony's network or some new games. One thing they never did though was take it away. They gave you a choice regardless of wether you like the choice or not.
And I have. Just because you haven't, doesn't mean anyone else hasn't.
What Sony do with their own software is up to them. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But one thing they can't do is just sit there and let it happen. They have to be shown to be doing something, just because of their investers.What about the Slims? They never had it to begin with, and with the Fats no longer produced, the consumer no longer has a choice. If Sony had really wanted to leave a choice, they should've forked the firmwares and let the consumers decide: OtherOS but no PSN or PSN but no OtherOS.
[QUOTE="lawlessx"]so i take it im the only one smelling a buy out then?kozzy1234
Sony will end up buying him out so he doesnt release what he said he would. Watch, itll happen. Sony cant risk this happening.
Don't be so sure. He may be an Untouchable.[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Hacking a PS3 is not breaking into a house. The house is the PS3 itself, which we bought (unless you're saying every retailer in the world are duly designated as agents of Sony and thus given the legal power to lease the consoles (seems to fly in the face of any trade law I can imagine))? Sony's software represents the effects within the house--belonging to the previous owner. Sure, we're not allowed to break them or otherwise mess with them, but we canmove them out of the house which we now own (which would be like gutting the PS3's internal software and putting in our own. Put it like this. If Sony can get away with this, wouldn't you think Microsoft would prevent you from installing Linux on your prebuilt PC? Because they present the same scenario.
PS. And before you say a PS3 is useless without the Sony software, consider that a PS3 also contains:
- 1 programmable Cell CPU that has floating-point capabilities that could make things like rendering and media encoding a much easier job than on x86 processors.
- 1 RSX GPU. Decent enough for homebrew jobs.
- 256MB XDRAM and 256MB GDDR SDRAM.
- Ethernet and WiFi
- 1 BluRay drive
- 2-3 USB ports
- HDMI output.
And all for much less than a comparably-equipped PC. IOW, someone with access to that alone would probably find some interesting uses for it, just as someone with access to a beat-up car may see things in there worth keeping.
HuusAsking
Sigh. I have already explained what my anaolgy was over. All yuou are doing is making your own analogy.
My anaolgy was about the moral rights of doing something. You have no moral rights hacking a software that does not belong to you just as you have no moral rights walking into a house you do not own.
The PS3 is useless without Sony's software, I will reperat that as many times as possible. Hacking into software that you do not own is morally wrong, hence the PS3 is useless without Sony's software. It's not obviously useless if other people right software for it, but doing sdo would be morally wrong. If they wanted to do that, they should have bought an open system console. If everyone is just going to wipe Sony;s software from the PS3, then the futore of consoles are in jepordy.And I've been trying to explain for nearly a whole page now that your argument is fundamentally flawed. If your analogy holds, then there would be no such thing as an open system. IOW, Microsoft can lock your PC into Windows because taking it out violates their rights (just as taking the Sony software out of a PS3 violates their rights). A PS3 is more than just the software, as I have enumerated. Hacking your PS3 is not like breaking into a house because the house is hardware. Unless the house is rented (or your PS3 is under RTO), what you do with a house/PS3 you buy is strictly your business. Sony's software isn't the house but rather the things inside it, since the house can still stand without the furniture and the PS3 still exists without the software. And since the software is treated as a whole. You can't do that with a house unless you pick it up and move it whole, which still leaves it intact.
I never stated hacking a PS3 is like breaking into a hosue. I never even mentioned breaking into a house, you made that up yourself to fit YOUR analogy.
My analogy was about moral rights in doing things you shouldn't.
You shouldn't morally hack the PS3 as it is not your software. Just as you shouldn't be walking (not breaking) into someones house because it is not your house.
If people wanted an open system console, then they shouldn't have bought the PS3, it's a pretty simple concept.
[QUOTE="kaealy"]
A large majority of the post in this tread, makes me slowly realise why I can't play online on consoles anymore. It's not because of hacks or cfw I can tell you that.
McStrongfast
Yeah it's pretty weird how people think hackers are doing something illegal here (jury's out) and all deserve to be put in front of a firing squad. I believe most of them are interested in opening up the security so they can run homebrew, there's nothing wrong with that. The cheating and piracy are unfortunate and unintended side effects. There absolutely are irredeemable ****oles out there who are working the destructive angle, and those people should be punished, but it's pretty ignorant to assume this is all hackers are about. Just as it's dumb to assume everyone running custom firmware is a cheating pirate.
With that said, everyone knows what's eventually going to happen once a hack is published. Regardless of the motivation or intention of the hack, the end result is always s***. And when the s*** hits the fan you'll look a right turd.
I have nothing against homebrew and support the idea of owning and being able to modify your property, but when it's at the expense of piracy and online cheats, when it affects a vast amount of other people negatively, I don't think it's something you should do.
I hope this whole mess somehow ends up creating a situation where homebrew is legal and possible without the ill side effects. I also wish for peace on Earth.
The PS3 is a closed console system, if you didn't want one of them, then why would you buy one?That's a bit beside the point, which is that if you own something you should be able to do what you want with it within the confines of the law.shawty1984
Like, I didn't buy a PS3 to run homebrew apps, but if the option's there, I might some day.
Anyway, yes, grey area.
No it's not.
You own the hardware, said hardware is pretty useless without the software SONY own. If people wanted to run homebrew apps, they should't buy a console that is a closed system. Regardless of local laws here which is a grey area, people have no moral rights to hack into something they don't own (the software) and is why I think hacking into software you don't own should be made illegal. Because the end outcome regardless of anything here is bad.
And I've been trying to explain for nearly a whole page now that your argument is fundamentally flawed. If your analogy holds, then there would be no such thing as an open system. IOW, Microsoft can lock your PC into Windows because taking it out violates their rights (just as taking the Sony software out of a PS3 violates their rights). A PS3 is more than just the software, as I have enumerated. Hacking your PS3 is not like breaking into a house because the house is hardware. Unless the house is rented (or your PS3 is under RTO), what you do with a house/PS3 you buy is strictly your business. Sony's software isn't the house but rather the things inside it, since the house can still stand without the furniture and the PS3 still exists without the software. And since the software is treated as a whole. You can't do that with a house unless you pick it up and move it whole, which still leaves it intact.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
Sigh. I have already explained what my anaolgy was over. All yuou are doing is making your own analogy.
My anaolgy was about the moral rights of doing something. You have no moral rights hacking a software that does not belong to you just as you have no moral rights walking into a house you do not own.
The PS3 is useless without Sony's software, I will reperat that as many times as possible. Hacking into software that you do not own is morally wrong, hence the PS3 is useless without Sony's software. It's not obviously useless if other people right software for it, but doing sdo would be morally wrong. If they wanted to do that, they should have bought an open system console. If everyone is just going to wipe Sony;s software from the PS3, then the futore of consoles are in jepordy.shawty1984
I never stated hacking a PS3 is like breaking into a hosue. I never even mentioned breaking into a house, you made that up yourself to fit YOUR analogy.
My analogy was about moral rights in doing things you shouldn't.
You shouldn't morally hack the PS3 as it is not your software. Just as you shouldn't be walking (not breaking) into someones house because it is not your house.
If people wanted an open system console, then they shouldn't have bought the PS3, it's a pretty simple concept.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]
[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]FTR, people have been cheating on MW2 well before the hacks started appearing.
HuusAsking
I never said they hadn't. But as soon as the hacks started appearing, thats when the cheaters in COD MW2 went mainstream.They've always been mainstream.
No they haven't. The majority of cheaters on COD MW2 came when the hack was released. Which is why now you can hardly go online in said game and find a decent lobby.
That's a bit beside the point, which is that if you own something you should be able to do what you want with it within the confines of the law.[QUOTE="McStrongfast"]
[QUOTE="kaealy"]
Yeah it's pretty weird how people think hackers are doing something illegal here (jury's out) and all deserve to be put in front of a firing squad. I believe most of them are interested in opening up the security so they can run homebrew, there's nothing wrong with that. The cheating and piracy are unfortunate and unintended side effects. There absolutely are irredeemable ****oles out there who are working the destructive angle, and those people should be punished, but it's pretty ignorant to assume this is all hackers are about. Just as it's dumb to assume everyone running custom firmware is a cheating pirate.
With that said, everyone knows what's eventually going to happen once a hack is published. Regardless of the motivation or intention of the hack, the end result is always s***. And when the s*** hits the fan you'll look a right turd.I have nothing against homebrew and support the idea of owning and being able to modify your property, but when it's at the expense of piracy and online cheats, when it affects a vast amount of other people negatively, I don't think it's something you should do.
I hope this whole mess somehow ends up creating a situation where homebrew is legal and possible without the ill side effects. I also wish for peace on Earth.
[QUOTE="shawty1984"]The PS3 is a closed console system, if you didn't want one of them, then why would you buy one?
shawty1984
Like, I didn't buy a PS3 to run homebrew apps, but if the option's there, I might some day.
Anyway, yes, grey area.
No it's not.
You own the hardware, said hardware is pretty useless without the software SONY own. If people wanted to run homebrew apps, they should't buy a console that is a closed system. Regardless of local laws here which is a grey area, people have no moral rights to hack into something they don't own (the software) and is why I think hacking into software you don't own should be made illegal. Because the end outcome regardless of anything here is bad.(deep breath)Yes it is. Even when you take out the software, you still have a CPU, GPU, RAM, a BluRay drive, networking, and several USB ports. There is no way in the nether regions you can tell me those things are useless. Otherwise, PCs are useless without Windows (and as Linux has proven, that's false).
PS. You know they don't make computers with Cell CPUs, so how else can we put Cells to use for specialized computing (media encoding, ray tracing, etc.) otherwise?
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