READ PS3s VS 360s GPU ?????

[QUOTE="Redfingers"]Okay, first of all, the 256 MB contained in the Cell is XDR, which is highly superior to GDDRIII RAM. Additionally, I've read the OS takes less than 30 MB of Cell's RAM.Radeon_X1950XTX

 All the RAM in the world doesn't mean anything if you don't have any bandwidth to it.  Bandwidth is a huge constraint on GPU's, which is why high-end cards have ridiculous 256-bit memory interfaces.  Take a low end card like an X1200, and even 512 MB of RAM wouldn't improve its performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDR_RAM

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=xdrpreview&page=2 

[QUOTE="MGS9150"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

rage8669

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

PS3 and 360 both have 512mb TOTAL RAM. the only difference is the PS3s RAM is clocked higher and is better quality and Open GL is much more efficient with RAM than Direct X.

 no. just no. the reason you can't say the ps3 has 512MB ram is because the cpu and gpu have dedicated ram. the gpu can access the cpu's ram, but at a huge cost to overall system performance, while the cpu cannot access the gpu ram at all. the xbox 360 on the other hand has 512MB of unified ram, meaning both the gpu and cpu can access both at the same time with no adverse affects to either one. even sony says 256mb ram cpu, 256mb ram gpu on the playstation website because once again, the ram is dedicated, not unified.

[QUOTE="MGS9150"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

Radeon_X1950XTX

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

PS3 and 360 both have 512mb TOTAL RAM. the only difference is the PS3s RAM is clocked higher and is better quality and Open GL is much more efficient with RAM than Direct X.

yea i know. i noticed late and just went back to change it. 

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="Redfingers"]Okay, first of all, the 256 MB contained in the Cell is XDR, which is highly superior to GDDRIII RAM. Additionally, I've read the OS takes less than 30 MB of Cell's RAM.Teufelhuhn

 All the RAM in the world doesn't mean anything if you don't have any bandwidth to it.  Bandwidth is a huge constraint on GPU's, which is why high-end cards have ridiculous 256-bit memory interfaces.  Take a low end card like an X1200, and even 512 MB of RAM wouldn't improve its performance.

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="Dualshockin"]As the Insomniac CCO said,the Xbox 360's GPU has-arguably-a slight advantage(This could mean an extra reflection here and there etc.) But the Ps3's CPU crushes the 360's,and when 3rd party devs finally get a hang of it,the true power of the Cell will come to life. Expect God Of War 3 to be the best looking game on any platform.Dualshockin

lol, If you think the ps3 can produce anything near the level of crysis, your nuts. Nothing can beat the pc, since its a beast if you got the up to date hardware. 

i bet that nobody even knows what's the biggest advantage that ps3 has over x360 in terms of hardware, ps3 has a memory controller build in right on the cpu and x360 doesn't.

and i also bet that most people in here dont even know the true power and advantage of having xdr memory at 3.2ghz and the Cell at 3.2ghz

[QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

Radeon_X1950XTX

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

rockstar183

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

take my advice, save ur breath, they dont understand.

[QUOTE="KillaHalo2o9"]

Will Im going to buy a PS3 in a week or so and, I was just wondering which system was truely the most powerfulest. We all now the GPU is the heart of the every system to display wonderfull visuals and, alot of people are saying that the PS3 cant win over the Xbox360 beause its GPU is weaker so what do you think of the tech specs? Will the Cell have enough impact to rise the PS3 higher then the 360? Discuss

Xbox360 Xenons

• 337 million transistors in total
• 500 MHz 10 MiB daughter embedded DRAM (eDRAM) on 90 nm process
  • NEC designed eDRAM die includes additional logic for color, alpha blending, Z/stencl buffering, and anti-aliasing
  • 105 million transistors
  • 8 Render Output units
• 500 MHz parent GPU on 90 nm TSMC process of total 232 million transistors
  • 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader
    • Unified shader architecture (each pipeline is capable of running either pixel or vertex shaders)
    • Support for a superset of DirectX 9.0c/API DirectX XBOX 360, and Shader Model 3.0/3.5
    • MEMEXPORT shader function
    • 2 shader ALU operations per pipeline per cycle (1 vector and 1 scalar, co-issued)
    • 48 billion shader operations per second theoretical maximum (2 ALU x 48 shader pipelines x 500 MHz)
  • 240 GFLOPS (10 FLOPS x 48 shader pipelines x 500 MHz)
  • 16 filtered and 16 unfiltered texture samples per clock
  • 1.6 billion vertices per second
  • Maximum polygon performance: 500 million triangles per second )
  • Texel fillrate: 8 gigatexel per second fillrate (16 textures x 500 MHz)
  • Pixel fillrate: 16 gigasamples per second fillrate using 4X multisample anti aliasing (MSAA), or 32 gigasamples using Z-only operation; 4 gigapixels per second without MSAA (8 ROPs x 500 MHz)
  • Dot product operations: 24 billion per second or 33.6 billion per second theoretical maximum when summed with CPU operations

   

• PS3 RSX
• Core Clock at 500 MHz
• Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
• 136 Shader operations per clock
• Pixel Shader 3.0
• 8 Renderin Pipelines (ROP)
• 300 million transistors
• 74.8 billion shader operations per second
• 33 billion dot products per second
• 1.2 billion Vertices per second
• Over 275 million polygons per second (polygon count and vertice count differ)
• 128-bit pixel precision offers rendering of scenes with high dynamic range imaging
• 128-bit memory bus width to 256-MiB GDDR3 VRAM
• 20.8 GB/sec bandwidth bitrate
• S3TC

GermanShepard06

xenos > rsx

cell > xenon

fixed ;) 

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

rockstar183

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

rockstar183

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram 

[QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

rage8669

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram 

[QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

rage8669

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram 

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

rockstar183

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

One thing that's true: the faster your CPU, more speed it will draw from the GPU. So you can be sure the Cell will put the RSX to it's limits, but we don't know if we can say the same about the Xenos and Xenon.

Anyway, the answer for all these questions about wich system has the edge will come to an end when the big PS3 titles come out (HS, Lair, etc) so we can compare top games from both systems and see wich is the winner. 

no. just no. the reason you can't say the ps3 has 512MB ram is because the cpu and gpu have dedicated ram. the gpu can access the cpu's ram, but at a huge cost to overall system performance, while the cpu cannot access the gpu ram at all. the xbox 360 on the other hand has 512MB of unified ram, meaning both the gpu and cpu can access both at the same time with no adverse affects to either one. even sony says 256mb ram cpu, 256mb ram gpu on the playstation website because once again, the ram is dedicated, not unified.

rage8669

 There's no performance hit for the RSX accessing the CPU RAM, its got almost as much bandwidth as it does to the GDDR3.  And like just about everyone else who sings the praises of the 360's unified memory design, you've neglected to mention how the Xenos has to share a single 128-bit connection with the CPU.

Put it this way...with all that techincal data everyone is showing on these forums...i bet you none of us understand it. djxaquaxblue

im tellin you...you guys know its true. 

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram

rage8669

 Okay, hold up here.  1st off, the 10MB of eDRAM is not there so the GPU can have free use of it.  Its a framebuffer, thats it.  IT can't be used for anything else, and you can't not use it as a framebuffer. 

2nd:  Heavenly Sword does not use "fake" HDR, its very real.  You're confusing HDR with floating-point buffers, which *usually* go hand-in-hand.  However its very feasible to use an encoded fixed-point format to store high-precision values, which is exactly what Heavenly Sword does.  Its something ATI has promoted for years, since none of their PC GPU's support hardware filtering of fp textures.

3rd:  The RSX can access the XDR memory all it wants.

also cows, when xbox came out we saw right ther that xbox was more powerfull just by looking at the games when it first launched, why not ps3?Radeon_X1950XTX

 Because unlike when Xbox launched, the PS3 doesn't have a next-gen PC GPU along with double the memory of the competition.  That sort of power is very easy to advantage of, unlike the PS2's EE or the PS3's Cell.  However that doesn't mean the Cell won't be used to do some incredible things, in the same way the EE was used to keep the PS2 competitive with the Xbox (despite its vastly inferior GPU).

[QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

Dualshockin

[QUOTE="rage8669"]

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram

Teufelhuhn

3rd:  The RSX can access the XDR memory all it wants.

 it was not meant to work like that, developers had to find a way to do it, and once they did, it does cost bandwidth, and its not worth it from what i have heard

[QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

Radeon_X1950XTX

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

you can stream textures and audio to avoid those issues, like devs did in Gears and like Insomniac is doing in their next game. Also the Cell can help RSX when needed. I'm not sure about this, i could be wrong, but to help RSX the Cell and it must have some access to each other's memories no?

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="rage8669"]

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram

Radeon_X1950XTX

3rd: The RSX can access the XDR memory all it wants.

it was not meant to work like that, developers had to find a way to do it, and once they did, it does cost bandwidth, and its not worth it from what i have heard

I didn't say it was easy, I said it can be done.   

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="rage8669"]

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram

Teufelhuhn

3rd: The RSX can access the XDR memory all it wants.

it was not meant to work like that, developers had to find a way to do it, and once they did, it does cost bandwidth, and its not worth it from what i have heard

I didn't say it was easy, I said it can be done.   

[QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="rage8669"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="rockstar183"][QUOTE="OMGTEHGRUKWTF"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"][QUOTE="Archx1"][QUOTE="SuperKnightX"]

PS3>>>X360 according to John Carmack and Itagaki

/Thread.

Radeon_X1950XTX

Yep eventhough they both said they liked the 360 better( because of dev tools and ease of programming) both said the PS3 is more powerful I really dont see why this is up for debate.

CPU is quite a bit more powerful than 360's. GPU is actually quite a bit slower than 360's. Its the trade off you dont want.

X360 512 MB RAM>PS3 256 MB RAM. And that is the only difference between the two that actually matters, because RAM is the bottleneck for all the consoles. I mean, wtf, only 256 MB??? My PC has 8 times that much.

it doesn't work that way, here's why. two entities with $256 a piece together have $500 at the expense of one entity. if person a (the cell) lends $64 to person b (rsx), person a now has$196 to work with while person b now has $320. if person a's expenses are in total $220, he doesn't have enough to pay for everything so he has to make sacrifices and buys only what's important.

the xbox 360 can be thought of as one person with $500. let's call him person c. if person c's total expenses add up to $400, he can pay for everything and still has $100 left over to either save or to buy something else that's less than or equal to $100.

[QUOTE="rage8669"]

no. just no. the reason you can't say the ps3 has 512MB ram is because the cpu and gpu have dedicated ram. the gpu can access the cpu's ram, but at a huge cost to overall system performance, while the cpu cannot access the gpu ram at all. the xbox 360 on the other hand has 512MB of unified ram, meaning both the gpu and cpu can access both at the same time with no adverse affects to either one. even sony says 256mb ram cpu, 256mb ram gpu on the playstation website because once again, the ram is dedicated, not unified.

Teufelhuhn

There's no performance hit for the RSX accessing the CPU RAM, its got almost as much bandwidth as it does to the GDDR3. And like just about everyone else who sings the praises of the 360's unified memory design, you've neglected to mention how the Xenos has to share a single 128-bit connection with the CPU.

not the badwidth but the amount of information able to be processed at any given time. the rsx also connects to the cell via 128-bit connection. also, the xenos to xenon bandwidth is higher than rsx to cell.

xenos

ps3 

[QUOTE="Dualshockin"]As the Insomniac CCO said,the Xbox 360's GPU has-arguably-a slight advantage(This could mean an extra reflection here and there etc.) But the Ps3's CPU crushes the 360's,and when 3rd party devs finally get a hang of it,the true power of the Cell will come to life. Expect God Of War 3 to be the best looking game on any platform.-KinGz-

not even that...

the cell is not clearly better than the 360 cpu

you can even say the 360 has the best overall cpu but again its 100% clearly better

so in all fairness you can pretty much put them at the same level of performance 

[QUOTE="rage8669"]

the 360 can access as much ram as needed and include 10 Mb edram for z-stencil, 4xAA, and post-processing with no negative impact on the system or the gpu. the xenos can also do HDR (the real thing) with 4xAA at the same time while the rsx can only do one or the other. the devs of heavenly sword used a simulation of fake hdr with 4xAA, it's not the same. the ps3 can do ray-tracing as well but the devs of crackdown had to use a simulation. look at it this way:

rsx = 256 Mb ram

xenos = 512 Mb unified ram + 10 Mb Edram

Teufelhuhn

Okay, hold up here. 1st off, the 10MB of eDRAM is not there so the GPU can have free use of it. Its a framebuffer, thats it. IT can't be used for anything else, and you can't not use it as a framebuffer.

2nd: Heavenly Sword does not use "fake" HDR, its very real. You're confusing HDR with floating-point buffers, which *usually* go hand-in-hand. However its very feasible to use an encoded fixed-point format to store high-precision values, which is exactly what Heavenly Sword does. Its something ATI has promoted for years, since none of their PC GPU's support hardware filtering of fp textures.

3rd: The RSX can access the XDR memory all it wants.

1. the daughter die was made to allow post-processing/ framebuffer effects such as anti-aliasing free with no degredation to gpu preformance. that'sall it was made for so yes i agree with you here.

2. hdr uses fp integers. agreed. if done by hardware in realtime, it is known as real hdr lighting. if done prior and values saved to be used later means simulation, meaning fake hdr. the same was done for crackdown's ray-tracing. the 360 cpu, as of this moment, can't handle streaming ray-tracing info, the cell can. the heaven sword devs stated themselves that in order to go around the hdr/aa limitation, the hdr was run san aa and the values stored so that when they re-introduce aa, they can use the previous hdr values and implement them in the game, ie fake hdr.

3. the rsx can access the xdr ram all it wants but it leaves the cell less ram to work with for calculations. so in other words, the dev has to choose to have better graphics or better gameplay. as of now, they can't have both. in the future, maybe. 

Ok...let me see if i can explain this. The 360's memory is unified, so it can be split as seen fit. The PS3's memory is seperated. Yes, the cell's memory is fast, but the trip from the cell to the rsx is slow. It's like the cell's memory being a ferrari, but the bus to the rsx has a speed limit of 65. It doesn't matter how fast the ram is, the bus's bandwidth makes it a great burden to do that. Please tell me some of you understand this now...beatzfreak69

bingo. you hit the nail on the head. 

[QUOTE="beatzfreak69"]Ok...let me see if i can explain this. The 360's memory is unified, so it can be split as seen fit. The PS3's memory is seperated. Yes, the cell's memory is fast, but the trip from the cell to the rsx is slow. It's like the cell's memory being a ferrari, but the bus to the rsx has a speed limit of 65. It doesn't matter how fast the ram is, the bus's bandwidth makes it a great burden to do that. Please tell me some of you understand this now...rage8669

bingo. you hit the nail on the head. 

I hit myself on the head in the process, this thread has given me a headache...

[QUOTE="rage8669"]

[QUOTE="beatzfreak69"]Ok...let me see if i can explain this. The 360's memory is unified, so it can be split as seen fit. The PS3's memory is seperated. Yes, the cell's memory is fast, but the trip from the cell to the rsx is slow. It's like the cell's memory being a ferrari, but the bus to the rsx has a speed limit of 65. It doesn't matter how fast the ram is, the bus's bandwidth makes it a great burden to do that. Please tell me some of you understand this now...beatzfreak69

bingo. you hit the nail on the head.

I hit myself on the head in the process, this thread has given me a headache...

:lol: haha. take an advil, you'll be ok. 

to all

the answer isn't as clear cut as cell > xenon or xenos > rsx. it's more complicated than that.  from a pure gaming stand point, the xenon has the advantage  because gaming requires general purpose processing and the 360 has 3 gp cores while the ps3 has only one. however, the cell can be programmed to give the same affect as a gp cpu. the xenon can handle 2 hardware threads per core while the cell can only handle one. this means that while the xenon has 3 physical processors, it can emulate 6. think hyper threading on the pentium 4. the cell has 1 gp cpu and 7 spe's ( one having been disabled to attain higher yields, and 1 is reserved for the os, this brings it down to 6 spe's.) compared side by side, that's 6 core's compared to 7.

the gpu's are different. while the rsx has the raw horse power, the xenos has a higher efficiency. also, rsx has 24 pixel pipelines and 8 vector pipelines compared to the xenos' 48 unified pipes (they can be used however the devs feel they should be.) the rsx has 256 Mb dedicated ram while the xenos has 512 Mb shared ram with the cpu (plus 10 Mb Edram for framebuffer usage). the rsx was based on the 7800gt while the xenos was based on the the soon to be released R600 (X2800XT).

over all, both consoles have there strengths and weaknesses but as to say which console is better over all is negligible. it's a stale mate. the ps3 has the more powerful cpu while the 360 has the more powerful gpu. (yea this contradicts my earlier statement but that was an example, this isn't.) 

As the Insomniac CCO said,the Xbox 360's GPU has-arguably-a slight advantage(This could mean an extra reflection here and there etc.) But the Ps3's CPU crushes the 360's,and when 3rd party devs finally get a hang of it,the true power of the Cell will come to life. Expect God Of War 3 to be the best looking game on any platform.Dualshockin

Ok...let me see if i can explain this.  The 360's memory is unified, so it can be split as seen fit.  The PS3's memory is seperated.  Yes, the cell's memory is fast, but the trip from the cell to the rsx is slow.  It's like the cell's memory being a ferrari, but the bus to the rsx has a speed limit of 65.  It doesn't matter how fast the ram is, the bus's bandwidth makes it a great burden to do that.  Please tell me some of you understand this now...beatzfreak69

Another thing.  All of those numbers are theoretical maxes.  It's also about efficiency.  From what i understand the 360's GPU is like eighty something percent efficient, while the same cannot be said about the PS3's GPU.beatzfreak69

with x360's cpu design i dont think it can even reach 30%...

Another thing. All of those numbers are theoretical maxes. It's also about efficiency. From what i understand the 360's GPU is like eighty something percent efficient, while the same cannot be said about the PS3's GPU.beatzfreak69

actually, ati stated that the xenos has 95%-100% while current pc gpu's (yes this does include the rsx) are only 50%-60% efficiency. here's a link. please note, if you don't like to read a lot, you're really going to hate this. 

[QUOTE="beatzfreak69"]Another thing. All of those numbers are theoretical maxes. It's also about efficiency. From what i understand the 360's GPU is like eighty something percent efficient, while the same cannot be said about the PS3's GPU.GermanShepard06

with x360's cpu design i dont think it can even reach 30%...

please read the link i provided before making stupid comments. 

[QUOTE="beatzfreak69"]Another thing. All of those numbers are theoretical maxes. It's also about efficiency. From what i understand the 360's GPU is like eighty something percent efficient, while the same cannot be said about the PS3's GPU.rage8669

actually, ati stated that the xenos has 95%-100% while current pc gpu's (yes this does include the rsx) are only 50%-60% efficiency. here's a link. please note, if you don't like to read a lot, you're really going to hate this. 

smarty-pants...hehehe kidding.  I was too lazy to look it up.