Which is irrelevant because the game is still an early build and unoptimized which arks back to my first point, your comparison is meaningless and using Syndicate on PC at Ultra running Gameworks settings to compare to console is dumb.
The worst of it all? "Running better than PC" doesn't mean shit. There's not just one PC out there.
VEGA's test would be running NVIDIA's pixel shader programs like HBAO+ and PCSS which exploits current AMD GPU's problem with Pixel Engine's link with memory controller instead of L2 cache.
-----------
VEGA's Pixel Engine link is with L2 cache just like NVIDIA's Paxwell GPUs.
Scorpio's Forza wet track reveal was largely a tech demo for AMD's new Pixel Engine path.
@ronvalencia: And none of that tells us shit about the specs of the PC they were running Origins on, none of that tells us shit about how far along the optimization they are and none of that tells us shit about the settings used.
@ronvalencia: And none of that tells us shit about the specs of the PC they were running Origins on, none of that tells us shit about how far along the optimization they are and none of that tells us shit about the settings used.
Thanks ron, you spouted more irrelevant drivel.
Your post is more irrelevant drivel.
It's well known for Ubisoft's partnership has NVIDIA Gameworks for their PC games development hence there's a very high chance for NVIDIA Pascal GPU usage.
The graphics settings, visual quality differences are hard to spot.
@ronvalencia: Which is still irrelevant because a damn 1050 uses the Pascal architecture. Great for the Scorpio if it does better than an unoptomized 1050 but it's far from being the king of the hill.
@ronvalencia: Which is still irrelevant because a damn 1050 uses the Pascal architecture. Great for the Scorpio if it does better than an unoptomized 1050 but it's far from being the king of the hill.
That's being silly, both PC and Scorpio was targeting 4K resolution with minimal visual difference.
The damn 1050 is shit at Forza 4K Ultra and Scorpio's power doesn't just disappear to damn 1050 level GPU i.e the minimum is R9-390X class GPU.
Damn your 1050 arguments i.e. the fcking RX-580 is already at 32 fps average 4K ultra details. Scorpio's would be a little higher for smoother 30 fps frame rate.
This is a hilarious argument. It's basically "instead of upgrading your PC and getting the 10k+ game library on that, just buy a Scorpio which can play some games better than your current PC".
Anybody who argues that is an idiot.
I think the argument touting 10K+ games is also idiotic.
How so?
PC has games. Lots of them. We're gamers. We play games.
How many of those 10k+ games are actually viable and worth playing? Sub 10%?
You do understand 10% of 10,000 is still 1000, right?
This is a hilarious argument. It's basically "instead of upgrading your PC and getting the 10k+ game library on that, just buy a Scorpio which can play some games better than your current PC".
Anybody who argues that is an idiot.
I think the argument touting 10K+ games is also idiotic.
How so?
PC has games. Lots of them. We're gamers. We play games.
How many of those 10k+ games are actually viable and worth playing? Sub 10%?
You do understand 10% of 10,000 is still 1000, right?
Not that impressive when you realize it's spanning several decades.
@ronvalencia: Good. Now if you can show me the settings used and how far along they are finishing the optimization we'll be on to something.
The report mentions that the writer had some hands-on time with the game running on Scorpio, and while on PC it ran at “fairly steady 30 FPS,” on Project Scorpio it ran at a frame rate that “felt more consistent” at 4K resolution. We also hear that both versions are still being optimized, so there is room for improvement.
Other than that, the small size of the screen used for the demo unfortunately made noticing tremendous differences with the standard version difficult.
Interestingly, Ubisoft told the magazine that developers managed to get the game running on Scorpio within weeks of receiving the development kits, which seems to indicate that porting to the new console is fairly easy.
Interestingly, the article still calls the new console “Scorpio.” Considering that it was supposed to be released after Microsoft’s conference, this could be an indication that the name “Scorpio” is being retained, or that Microsoft might not yet be ready to reveal its official name. Of course, this is just speculation.
1. Visual quality being nearly identical.
2. Resolution target is 4K with 30 fps hence GTX 1060 to GTX 1070 range. Memory bottlenecked RX-580 already reaching 4K 32 fps ultra settings in the last AC Syndicate release.
3. Smoother frame rate for Scorpio at similar development stage with PC builds i.e. smoother rate frame for Scorpio indicates frame rate minimums are superior.
4. Ubisoft is NVIDIA partner for PC games development.
5. TXAA runs on NVIDIA GPUs. Not applicable on AMD's PC and console GPUs.
6. NVIDIA's pixel shader program exploits current AMD GPU's Pixel Engine weaknesses, hence the reason for AMD GPU optimizations involves sync/async compute shaders. Forza M6 wet track demonstrated Scorpio's AMD GPU Pixel Engine path improvements.
7. Similar easy port effort patterns with 4K for Scorpio.
What does nearly identical mean and what does it tell us about the visual settings?
Example:
Witcher 2 had an AA setting called "Ubersampling", with it on or off the image quality is nearly identical (if not identical to most people), but it drops the FPS by half.
2. Resolution target is 4K with 30 fps hence GTX 1060 to GTX 1070 range. Memory bottlenecked RX-580 already reaching 4K 32 fps ultra settings in the last AC Syndicate release.
3. Smoother frame rate for Scorpio at similar development stage with PC builds i.e. smoother rate frame for Scorpio indicates frame rate minimums are superior.
4. Ubisoft is NVIDIA partner for PC games development.
5. TXAA runs on NVIDIA GPUs. Not applicable on AMD's PC and console GPUs.
6. NVIDIA's pixel shader program exploits current AMD GPU's Pixel Engine weaknesses, hence the reason for AMD GPU optimizations involves sync/async compute shaders. Forza M6 wet track demonstrated Scorpio's AMD GPU Pixel Engine path improvements.
7. Similar easy port effort patterns with 4K for Scorpio.
1. Which doesn't mean jack. The game is incomplete and unoptimized. Features killing the performance could be at play but unoptimized which gasp, would cause the performance to falter with no visual payoff.
2. Great, a 1060 which trades blows with a 980, a three year old GPU.
3. You don't even know if they're at a similar development stage. GTFO.
4. Which is irrelvant.
5. Which further strengthen the point that using Syndicate as a comparison was dumb. They don't even have TXAA on consoles.
Also lol, by the time the Scorpio comes out, the GTX 1070 will be a year and a half old and we'll likely have an 1170 which will likely compete if not outright beat a 1080 for 350-400$.
2. Resolution target is 4K with 30 fps hence GTX 1060 to GTX 1070 range. Memory bottlenecked RX-580 already reaching 4K 32 fps ultra settings in the last AC Syndicate release.
3. Smoother frame rate for Scorpio at similar development stage with PC builds i.e. smoother rate frame for Scorpio indicates frame rate minimums are superior.
4. Ubisoft is NVIDIA partner for PC games development.
5. TXAA runs on NVIDIA GPUs. Not applicable on AMD's PC and console GPUs.
6. NVIDIA's pixel shader program exploits current AMD GPU's Pixel Engine weaknesses, hence the reason for AMD GPU optimizations involves sync/async compute shaders. Forza M6 wet track demonstrated Scorpio's AMD GPU Pixel Engine path improvements.
7. Similar easy port effort patterns with 4K for Scorpio.
1. Which doesn't mean jack. The game is incomplete and unoptimized. Features killing the performance could be at play but unoptimized which gasp, would cause the performance to falter with no visual payoff.
2. Great, a 1060 which trades blows with a 980, a three year old GPU.
3. You don't even know if they're at a similar development stage. GTFO.
4. Which is irrelvant.
5. Which further strengthen the point that using Syndicate as a comparison was dumb. They don't even have TXAA on consoles.
Also lol, by the time the Scorpio comes out, the GTX 1070 will be a year and a half old and we'll likely have an 1170 which will likely compete if not outright beat a 1080 for 350-400$.
1. Stop being a hypocrite.
You started this topic with Scorpio's Battlefront 2 having 4K 60 fps and my post's has Scorpio's AC Origins build being smoother over PC version.
2. To bad for you, Assassin's Creed Syndicate needs to be higher than GTX 1060 and GTX 980 to reach 30 fps minimum e.g. reference GTX 980 Ti and Fury X class.
3. You GTFO. Developers has received Scorpio hardware a few weeks ago and it's already smoother than PC version and GTX 1060/1070/1080 are already several months old.
4. This is relevant since this reduces PC GPU selections to NVIDIA and Ubisoft has a known NVIDIA bias.
5. No different to using earlier Battlefront or Battefield 1 as a performance guide for Battlefield 2 estimation. TXAA doesn't exist for AMD's PC GPUs either and there are alternatives e.g. AMD's EQAA.
TXAA is just MSAA with post process pass and temporal filters.
Sony's mentality is still stuck to "high FLOPS per $$$", hence their 8.4 TFLOPS via double rate FP16 selection path over data transfer bottlenecks reduction selection path.
"When we started looking at Scorpio," he says, "we asked the partners, 'in order to build a true high-fidelity 4K game, what capabilities do you need?' That’s what we designed Scorpio around. It’s kind of like a [GeForce GTX] 980 card on the PC. I get the capability that I need as a developer to deliver a high-fidelity 4K game. ”
MS was looking at green camp's Maxwell v2 results.
Your interpretation of Phil Spencer words is totally pathetic and we know it for FACT.
Vega,Ryzen,FP16 which you claim all where in Scorpio using a quote from Phil Spencer which in no place stated that i asked you for links every time and you didn't provide any you were WRONG.
And scorpio doesn't have Ryzen,Vega,or FP16.
Look how he say that they asked partners so they could build a true 4k high fidelity but they quote the 980gtx not the TI the 980 GTX.
Houston we have a problem look at the performance the 980 in BF1 in 4k it does 37FPS which for a game like BF1 isn't enough.it is even beat by a frame by the RX480 which is close to 6TF and which many people have told you here Scorpio would perform like.
Oh and this is using a i7 to get most out of that 980 not a damn water down jaguar clocked at 2.3ghz.
Power wise the 980 doesn't have the juice to run all games in 4k at 60FPS unless something is given in.
Miss quoting Phil Spencer have lead you no where,and considering that you can't even admit that HE admit that he was part of the xbox one problems says it all,the xbox one has a game problem the PS4 is smocking it game wise who's fault is it Mattrick which has been gone for more than 3 years or Phil?
Lets see you have the the gust to answer.
@ronvalencia said:
1. My MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming X card is faster than reference TitanMaxwell and it couldn't match Scorpio in Forza wet track. With nurburgring dry tracks, it blast pass 4K/sustain 60 fps with ease i.e. it doesn't like excessive high resolution alpha/semi-transparent wet effects.
The only reason why your 980ti which i don't think you really have one,since you claim to have like 200 different GPU,could not match scorpio wet track is because Forza is a shitty optimized game that stress only 2 damn cores out of CPU and bottleneck them.
Is a shitty optimized game and we have prove it not only my self prove it,04dcarraher also did and you did what you always do post 100 screens of irrelevant shit to spin the information presented to you.
Forza is not a banchmarch for games on PC is not Crysis circa 2007 or close is a shitty optimized game like many of MS shitty ports on PC.
Forza has been 1080p 60FPS on xbox one since day 1 when many games could not even hit 900p.
What i will do next is simple i am bookmarking this thread,and when real games start to come out and Scorpio start showing weakness vs the 980TI 1070GTX and other i will be there to quote you and make fun of you as i did when Scorpio ended without Polaris,Jaguar and no FP16..hahahahaaa
Sony's mentality is still stuck to "high FLOPS per $$$", hence their 8.4 TFLOPS via double rate FP16 selection path over data transfer bottlenecks reduction selection path.
"When we started looking at Scorpio," he says, "we asked the partners, 'in order to build a true high-fidelity 4K game, what capabilities do you need?' That’s what we designed Scorpio around. It’s kind of like a [GeForce GTX] 980 card on the PC. I get the capability that I need as a developer to deliver a high-fidelity 4K game. ”
MS was looking at green camp's Maxwell v2 results.
Your interpretation of Phil Spencer words is totally pathetic and we know it for FACT.
Vega,Ryzen,FP16 which you claim all where in Scorpio using a quote from Phil Spencer which in no place stated that i asked you for links every time and you didn't provide any you were WRONG.
And scorpio doesn't have Ryzen,Vega,or FP16.
Look how he say that they asked partners so they could build a true 4k high fidelity but they quote the 980gtx not the TI the 980 GTX.
Houston we have a problem look at the performance the 980 in BF1 in 4k it does 37FPS which for a game like BF1 isn't enough.it is even beat by a frame by the RX480 which is close to 6TF and which many people have told you here Scorpio would perform like.
Oh and this is using a i7 to get most out of that 980 not a damn water down jaguar clocked at 2.3ghz.
Power wise the 980 doesn't have the juice to run all games in 4k at 60FPS unless something is given in.
Miss quoting Phil Spencer have lead you no where,and considering that you can't even admit that HE admit that he was part of the xbox one problems says it all,the xbox one has a game problem the PS4 is smocking it game wise who's fault is it Mattrick which has been gone for more than 3 years or Phil?
Lets see you have the the gust to answer.
@ronvalencia said:
1. My MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming X card is faster than reference TitanMaxwell and it couldn't match Scorpio in Forza wet track. With nurburgring dry tracks, it blast pass 4K/sustain 60 fps with ease i.e. it doesn't like excessive high resolution alpha/semi-transparent wet effects.
The only reason why your 980ti which i don't think you really have one,since you claim to have like 200 different GPU,could not match scorpio wet track is because Forza is a shitty optimized game that stress only 2 damn cores out of CPU and bottleneck them.
Is a shitty optimized game and we have prove it not only my self prove it,04dcarraher also did and you did what you always do post 100 screens of irrelevant shit to spin the information presented to you.
Forza is not a banchmarch for games on PC is not Crysis circa 2007 or close is a shitty optimized game like many of MS shitty ports on PC.
Forza has been 1080p 60FPS on xbox one since day 1 when many games could not even hit 900p.
What i will do next is simple i am bookmarking this thread,and when real games start to come out and Scorpio start showing weakness vs the 980TI 1070GTX and other i will be there to quote you and make fun of you as i did when Scorpio ended without Polaris,Jaguar and no FP16..hahahahaaa
To bad for you, Scorpio was showing to be faster than GTX 980.
GTX 1080 Ti with 6.5 TFLOPS (reduced) with memory setting kept as is has matched Scorpio's Forza wet track result with slower Core i7-4770K CPU with 4.1 Ghz limit.
Your post is shitty.
04dcarraher's argument with Forza Apex's dual thread CPU usage is NOT a problem for 6.5 TFLOPS reduced GTX 1080 Ti.
Hint:
1. GTX 1080 Ti is a newer GPU design i.e. GP102 is newer design than GP104 (GTX 1070/1080) and GM200 (Titan Maxwell/GTX 980 Ti) is aging.
2. There's a reason for new GPU silicon design releases e.g. Volta GV104 would more efficient over GP104 e.g. GTX 1070's 256 Gbps can rival GTX 980 Ti's 337 GBps results i.e. improvements with DCC/cache/memory subsystem.
http://wccftech.com/phil-spencer-xbox-scorpio-teraflops/ Phil Spencer correctly identifies AMD GPU issues with it's high TFLOPS i.e. memory bandwidth.
When you talk to me about Scorpio, the term I use about the architecture isn’t the six teraflops which is obviously what we’ve announced, it’s balance. Really what it is, is you want a platform that is balanced between memory bandwidth, GPU power, you know, your ability to move memory and [an] amount of memory around in many ways is more inhibiting to the performance of your game than absolute teraflops on any one of the individual pieces, and when we designed Scorpio we really thought about this balanced rig that could come together at a price-point. Like, I want Scorpio to be at a console price-point, I’m not trying to go and compete with a high-end rig. And because we’re building one spec, we’re able to look at the balance between all the components and make sure that it’s something we really hit that matters to consumers and gamers.
Phil Spencer correctly identifies AMD GPU issues with it's high TFLOPS i.e. memory bandwidth.
When you talk to me about Scorpio, the term I use about the architecture isn’t the six teraflops which is obviously what we’ve announced, it’s balance. Really what it is, is you want a platform that is balanced between memory bandwidth, GPU power, you know, your ability to move memory and [an] amount of memory around in many ways is more inhibiting to the performance of your game than absolute teraflops on any one of the individual pieces, and when we designed Scorpio we really thought about this balanced rig that could come together at a price-point. Like, I want Scorpio to be at a console price-point, I’m not trying to go and compete with a high-end rig. And because we’re building one spec, we’re able to look at the balance between all the components and make sure that it’s something we really hit that matters to consumers and gamers.
The lesson from Nvidia Maxwell/Pascal designs are increasing memory bandwidth while increasing TFLOPS.
Phil Spencer's comments on "GTX 980 Type" was referring to the architecture.
GTX 1070 manage to be
04dcarraher's argument on pixel rate is wrong. I proven by 3DMarks Vantage pixel fill score for RX-480 has higher score than R9-390X. Texture fill rate memory bandwidth has higher influence over ROPS.
Polaris's double data rate FP16 feature. Eat it.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not. However, customisation was extensive elsewhere. Microsoft's GPU command processor implementation of DX12 has provided big wins for Xbox One developers, and it's set for expansion in Scorpio.
I am correct on Scrpio's GPU solution is faster than RX-480 OC and R9-390X while slower than Vega 10.
Lower latency Jaguar is half way house to Ryzen's improvements which has both 2X width and lower latency. Custom command processor with microcode with up to half reduce CPU work load. I was correct on Ryzen level CPU workload NOT being ignored.
Your arguments are repeated and this post will be recycled again.
You claimed Scorpio has external PSU and you are wrong.
You started this topic with Scorpio's Battlefront 2 having 4K 60 fps and my post's has Scorpio's AC Origins build being smoother over PC version.
2. To bad for you, Assassin's Creed Syndicate needs to be higher than GTX 1060 and GTX 980 to reach 30 fps minimum e.g. reference GTX 980 Ti and Fury X class.
3. You GTFO. Developers has received Scorpio hardware a few weeks ago and it's already smoother than PC version and GTX 1060/1070/1080 are already several months old.
4. This is relevant since this reduces PC GPU selections to NVIDIA and Ubisoft has a known NVIDIA bias.
5. No different to using earlier Battlefront or Battefield 1 as a performance guide for Battlefield 2 estimation. TXAA doesn't exist for AMD's PC GPUs either and there are alternatives e.g. AMD's EQAA.
TXAA is just MSAA with post process pass and temporal filters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOStBqP6F3M
TXAA seriously destroys fine-detail in motion.
1. Yeah and all I said was that the Scorpio won't be more powerful than my PC. It sure as shit ain't gonna outperform and i7-4790K(4.5Ghz)+GTX 1080 Ti. Unless you wanna argue that?
2. You're a liar. Here's the game running at 35+fps on Medium settings on a 980. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5eBZ-xG3lc. Adding SSAO will drop the fps by around 3-4 frames which will still remain at 30+.
Scorpio shit won't be running that game on Ultra settings at 4K and NVIDIA Gamework features. Before you talk shit, FXAA has very little impact on performance and was disabled because it's garbage.
3. Which is great because Syndicate was running like shit on PC for at least a month. The fact that they say it's easier to port it on the Scorpio suggests they might even be farther along its development than the PC build which makes your comparison meaningless.
You got it wrong again, el tormrntos was talking about how unoptimized Forza MS 6 is on PC..... and you using that game as a specific example is flawed.
The argument that 480x scored better on on 3dmark vantage vs an older GCN gpu 1.1... again is off..... note of what i was talking about ..... I was talking about current Polaris vs Scorpio's gpu pixel fillrate since they are based on virtually the same architecture and features.
As you pointed out numerous times Polaris's changes to GCN with L2, geometry and command processor etc. Comparing older GCN's pixel rates vs Polaris or VEGA is not linear, which is why a Polaris based gpu with 27 G/Pixel/s less and with 128 gb/s less bandwidth is able to match and outperform slightly a older GCN.
Your not going to see a sizable gain in performance between Scorpio's gpu vs Polaris based gpu with similar/same TFLOP numbers..... So thinking that Scorpio's quoted "2.7x" increased rate over XboxOne which is around 36 G/Pixels with less than 50gb/s more bandwidth is going to be sizable...is not realistic to think that an extra bit of bandwidth is going to drastically change a gpu's pixel pushing power.
You started this topic with Scorpio's Battlefront 2 having 4K 60 fps and my post's has Scorpio's AC Origins build being smoother over PC version.
2. To bad for you, Assassin's Creed Syndicate needs to be higher than GTX 1060 and GTX 980 to reach 30 fps minimum e.g. reference GTX 980 Ti and Fury X class.
3. You GTFO. Developers has received Scorpio hardware a few weeks ago and it's already smoother than PC version and GTX 1060/1070/1080 are already several months old.
4. This is relevant since this reduces PC GPU selections to NVIDIA and Ubisoft has a known NVIDIA bias.
5. No different to using earlier Battlefront or Battefield 1 as a performance guide for Battlefield 2 estimation. TXAA doesn't exist for AMD's PC GPUs either and there are alternatives e.g. AMD's EQAA.
TXAA is just MSAA with post process pass and temporal filters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOStBqP6F3M
TXAA seriously destroys fine-detail in motion.
1. Yeah and all I said was that the Scorpio won't be more powerful than my PC. It sure as shit ain't gonna outperform and i7-4790K(4.5Ghz)+GTX 1080 Ti. Unless you wanna argue that?
2. You're a liar. Here's the game running at 35+fps on Medium settings on a 980. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5eBZ-xG3lc. Adding SSAO will drop the fps by around 3-4 frames which will still remain at 30+.
Scorpio shit won't be running that game on Ultra settings at 4K and NVIDIA Gamework features. Before you talk shit, FXAA has very little impact on performance and was disabled because it's garbage.
3. Which is great because Syndicate was running like shit on PC for at least a month. The fact that they say it's easier to port it on the Scorpio suggests they might even be farther along its development than the PC build which makes your comparison meaningless.
1. Reduce your GTX 1080 Ti to 6.5 TFLOPS and kept the memory settings as is. Run Forza with nurburgring wet track as per DF's reveal. Your reduced 6.5 TFLOPS GTX 1080 Ti should be delivering sustained 4K / 60 fps.
Phil Spencer correctly identifies AMD GPU issues with it's high TFLOPS i.e. memory bandwidth.
When you talk to me about Scorpio, the term I use about the architecture isn’t the six teraflops which is obviously what we’ve announced, it’s balance. Really what it is, is you want a platform that is balanced between memory bandwidth, GPU power, you know, your ability to move memory and [an] amount of memory around in many ways is more inhibiting to the performance of your game than absolute teraflops on any one of the individual pieces, and when we designed Scorpio we really thought about this balanced rig that could come together at a price-point. Like, I want Scorpio to be at a console price-point, I’m not trying to go and compete with a high-end rig. And because we’re building one spec, we’re able to look at the balance between all the components and make sure that it’s something we really hit that matters to consumers and gamers.
The lesson from Nvidia Maxwell/Pascal designs.
GP102 has newer hardware design over GP104 and GM200.
2. .LOL, I was referring my ACS posted benchmarks. Try again.
Again, there's no noticeable visual difference between PC and Scorpio with AC Origin development build run.
3. Your argument is reducing the impact for Scorpio's hardware was profiled with current game 3D engines e.g. GTX 980 Ti's 337 Gbps results can be rivaled by GTX 1070's 256 Gbps results, hint: newer hardware design is more efficient than the older hardware.
As the hardware age, more effort would be needed for software optimize.
You got it wrong again, el tormrntos was talking about how unoptimized Forza MS 6 is on PC..... and you using that game as a specific example is flawed.
You are wrong again. Forza's dual CPU core usage is not a problem for 6.5 TFLOPS reduced GTX 1080 Ti and I didn't even need i7-4790K.
@04dcarraher said:
The argument that 480x scored better on on 3dmark vantage vs an older GCN gpu 1.1...again is off....
Any pixel rate must be backed effective memory bandwidth. ROPS doesn't work without memory. Again, TMU effective memory bandwidth has higher influence.
Polaris DCC caused a large boost for color-ROPS.
@04dcarraher said:
. note of what i was talking about ..... I was talking about current Polaris vs Scorpio's gpu pixel fillrate since they are based on virtually the same architecture and features.
Your pure pixel color fill argument is flawed, Concurrent Z-ROP/Depth-ROP + color ROP will easily saturate memory bandwidth for Scorpio and RX-580, let alone TMU's memory bandwidth consumption.
3D games needs Z-ROP/Depth ROPS i.e. one of the core design for being a GPU vs .DSP.
Again, TMU effective memory bandwidth has higher influence.
Forza's wet track needs a tight loop between texture fetch, ROPS blend/alpha/transparency and depth-ROPS.
@04dcarraher said:
As you pointed out numerous times Polaris's changes to GCN with L2, geometry and command processor etc.
Polaris Pixel Engine (ROPS) is still connected to memory controller, hence will affect depth ROPS and color ROPS.
Polaris 2MB cache only benefits compute and geometry, but Forza's wet track hammers tight loop between texture fetch and ROPS blend/alpha/transparency. Reducing latency benefits this workload type.
@04dcarraher said:
Comparing older GCN's pixel rates vs Polaris or VEGA is not linear, which is why a Polaris based gpu with 27 G/Pixel/s less and with 128 gb/s less bandwidth is able to match and outperform slightly a older GCN.
Pixel fill rate is not the full answer. Texel rate memory bandwidth has higher influence. Texture fetch occurs at the earlier stage in the graphics pipeline.
So thinking that Scorpio's quoted "2.7x" increased rate over XboxOne which is around 36 G/Pixels with less than 50gb/s more bandwidth is going to sizable...is not realistic
That's a stupid argument, XBO has ESRAM. MS has shown 16 ROPS's concurrent real and write operations saturating ESRAM's memory bandwidth. XBO's bottleneck is shader ALU power.
Your color pixel fill argument is a load of bullshit. Not real game operates on pure color ROPS alone.
@ronvalencia: Which is meaningless because Origins could be running at Medium and 4K on a 980 and Medium equivalent/4K on the Scorpio. The difference wouldn't be noticeable and both would achieve 30fps but the Xbox Scorpio would be smoother. A 980 ain't exactly news these days.
@ronvalencia: Which is meaningless because Origins could be running at Medium and 4K on a 980 and Medium equivalent/4K on the Scorpio. The difference wouldn't be noticeable and both would achieve 30fps but the Xbox Scorpio would be smoother. A 980 ain't exactly news these days.
Too bad for you, memory bottlenecked RX-580 can do 4K 31 fps at max details already
Scorpio is faster than GTX 980 i.e. 6.5 TFLOPS reduced GTX 1080 Ti can deliver Forza M6 wet track 4k 60 fps and it doesn't need i7-4790K OC CPU to do it.
@ronvalencia: Seems I lost you already lol. Now you're arguing a mid-tier GPU like the 580 can also do 30fps at max details which doesn't exactly work in the Scorpio's favor lol.
@ronvalencia: Seems I lost you already lol. Now you're arguing a mid-tier GPU like the 580 can also do 30fps at max details which doesn't exactly work in the Scorpio's favor lol.
Scorpio is faster than memory bottle-necked RX-580. LOL. RX-580 (32 fps) is already few fps from GTX 980 Ti (38 fps) i.e. 17 percent boost and it's GTX 980 Ti.
27 percent boost (full memory bandwidth difference with RX-580), it's GTX 1070...That's DF's Forza reveal GPU range.
ACS works with my effective memory bandwidth scaling just like Battlefront, Battlefield 1, Far Cry Primal, Doom Vulkan, F1 2016 and Forza H3.
Scorpio is going to get console-mix settings with Ultra textures at 4K. Pretty much anything that runs 900p and above on Xbox One will make the jump to 4K. Stuff like BF1 and DOOM run sub-900p and 60fps on Xbox One. They would be candidates for checkerboard rendering and/or upscale to 4K. I don't see MS advertising any different.
Scorpio turns in a performance around 25% better than a 6TF RX 480 on Forza 6 Apex, wet track, full grid, 4K/60fps, Ultra settings, 2xAA. That puts 4k right in it's wheelhouse for just about any title. Majority of games will be native 4k/Ultra textures. You don't have 7-8GB of VRAM and boosted mem bandwidth for medium setting textures.
To bad for you, Scorpio was showing to be faster than GTX 980.
GTX 1080 Ti with 6.5 TFLOPS (reduced) with memory setting kept as is has matched Scorpio's Forza wet track result with slower Core i7-4770K CPU with 4.1 Ghz limit.
Lower latency Jaguar is half way house to Ryzen's improvements which has both 2X width and lower latency. Custom command processor with microcode with up to half reduce CPU work load. I was correct on Ryzen level CPU workload NOT being ignored.
The 1080TGX kick the living crap out of the RX480 RX580 and scorpio as well,and the core i7 4770k melt that Jaguar inside Scorpio.
No is not is a shitty Jaguar and if AMD could fu**ing make a jaguar that perform like an i7 or Ryzen they would have destroy Intel long time ago,Jaguar is the bare bottom of the barrel and performance wise is shitty.
Even compare to the FX line that already were inferior to Intel offerings and AMD own Ryzen.
Custom command processor was on xbox one and still the PS4 is faster in most games than the xbox one,in both frames and also resolution in many like the case of Doom which the PS4 complete destroy the xbox one on a game that is coded for API like DX12,mantle, Vulkan.
The command modification did shit to stop the gap,even when the PS4 also was rendering at higher pixels.
Again when games come out you will be quote and make fun off so wait for it.
@Juub1990 said:
@ronvalencia: Seems I lost you already lol. Now you're arguing a mid-tier GPU like the 580 can also do 30fps at max details which doesn't exactly work in the Scorpio's favor lol.
He actually did claim that Scorpio exceed the 1080GTX using FP16,the problem was Scorpio didn't have that feature,but never the less when it was unknown he try to argue it,but when it was confirmed that Scorpio didn't have FP16,he proceeded to downplay FP16,because people as such as my self started to hit him with its own argument..
He claim Scorpio with FP16 instead of 6TF was 12TF so it exceed it a 1080GTX...
But when i turn the argument against him and told him that since the Pro was 4.2TF with FP16 it was 8.4 and that it exceed scorpio he was fast to downplay the feature and attack the PS4 bandwidth even when FP16 also increase bandwidth efficiency by 2X stated by Nvidia it self..
Hahahaa..
He simply will not admit a loss the sad part is that he claim is not a personality war and that he is not a lemming..ahahahaha
Scorpio is faster than memory bottle-necked RX-580. LOL. RX-580 (32 fps) is already few fps from GTX 980 Ti (38 fps) i.e. 17 percent boost and it's GTX 980 Ti.
27 percent boost (full memory bandwidth difference with RX-580), it's GTX 1070...That's DF's Forza reveal GPU range.
ACS works with my effective memory bandwidth scaling just like Battlefield 1, Far Cry Primal, Doom Vulkan, F1 2016, Forza H3,
The point is you were trying to pimp the Scorpio achieving 4K/30fps in ACO like it was some kind of achievement when an old-ass 980 can reach 35+ fps at 4K in Syndicate lol. Now you just proved that a mid-tier GPU like a 580 is also capable of achieving 30fps at max details(and consoles almost never run on max settings). The 1070 breezes through 30fps at 4K so it's not exactly impressive to do 30fps/4K in a game like Assassin's Creed.
He actually did claim that Scorpio exceed the 1080GTX using FP16,the problem was Scorpio didn't have that feature,but never the less when it was unknown he try to argue it,but when it was confirmed that Scorpio didn't have FP16,he proceeded to downplay FP16,because people as such as my self started to hit him with its own argument..
He claim Scorpio with FP16 instead of 6TF was 12TF so it exceed it a 1080GTX...
But when i turn the argument against him and told him that since the Pro was 4.2TF with FP16 it was 8.4 and that it exceed scorpio he was fast to downplay the feature and attack the PS4 bandwidth even when FP16 also increase bandwidth efficiency by 2X stated by Nvidia it self..
Hahahaa..
He simply will not admit a loss the sad part is that he claim is not a personality war and that he is not a lemming..ahahahaha
ROFL, I remember he was always pimping FP16 now he backpedaled because it's not in the Scorpio?
He absolutely is a lemming and an AMD fanboy. Must suck always fighting for the losing side lol.
To bad for you, Scorpio was showing to be faster than GTX 980.
GTX 1080 Ti with 6.5 TFLOPS (reduced) with memory setting kept as is has matched Scorpio's Forza wet track result with slower Core i7-4770K CPU with 4.1 Ghz limit.
Lower latency Jaguar is half way house to Ryzen's improvements which has both 2X width and lower latency. Custom command processor with microcode with up to half reduce CPU work load. I was correct on Ryzen level CPU workload NOT being ignored.
The 1080TGX kick the living crap out of the RX480 RX580 and scorpio as well,and the core i7 4770k melt that Jaguar inside Scorpio.
No is not is a shitty Jaguar and if AMD could fu**ing make a jaguar that perform like an i7 or Ryzen they would have destroy Intel long time ago,Jaguar is the bare bottom of the barrel and performance wise is shitty.
Even compare to the FX line that already were inferior to Intel offerings and AMD own Ryzen.
Custom command processor was on xbox one and still the PS4 is faster in most games than the xbox one,in both frames and also resolution in many like the case of Doom which the PS4 complete destroy the xbox one on a game that is coded for API like DX12,mantle, Vulkan.
The command modification did shit to stop the gap,even when the PS4 also was rendering at higher pixels.
Again when games come out you will be quote and make fun off so wait for it.
@Juub1990 said:
@ronvalencia: Seems I lost you already lol. Now you're arguing a mid-tier GPU like the 580 can also do 30fps at max details which doesn't exactly work in the Scorpio's favor lol.
He actually did claim that Scorpio exceed the 1080GTX using FP16,the problem was Scorpio didn't have that feature,but never the less when it was unknown he try to argue it,but when it was confirmed that Scorpio didn't have FP16,he proceeded to downplay FP16,because people as such as my self started to hit him with its own argument..
He claim Scorpio with FP16 instead of 6TF was 12TF so it exceed it a 1080GTX...
But when i turn the argument against him and told him that since the Pro was 4.2TF with FP16 it was 8.4 and that it exceed scorpio he was fast to downplay the feature and attack the PS4 bandwidth even when FP16 also increase bandwidth efficiency by 2X stated by Nvidia it self..
Hahahaa..
He simply will not admit a loss the sad part is that he claim is not a personality war and that he is not a lemming..ahahahaha
Polaris's double data rate FP16 feature. Eat It. To be enabled under Shader Model 6_1.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not. However, customisation was extensive elsewhere. Microsoft's GPU command processor implementation of DX12 has provided big wins for Xbox One developers, and it's set for expansion in Scorpio.
I am correct on Scrpio's GPU solution is faster than RX-480 OC and R9-390X while slower than Vega 10.
@tormentos said:
The 1080TGX kick the living crap out of the RX480 RX580 and scorpio as well
What's 1080TGX? Again, 6.5 TF GTX 1080 Ti is a degraded GTX 1080 Ti you stupid cow.. Normal GTX 1080 Ti at 1800 Mhz has 12.9 TFLOPS FP32 LOL. I'm just removing GTX 1070's 256 Gbps limitations.
@tormentos said:
,and the core i7 4770k melt that Jaguar inside Scorpio.
Red herring.
@tormentos said:
Custom command processor was on xbox one and still the PS4 is faster in most games than the xbox one,in both frames and also resolution in many like the case of Doom which the PS4 complete destroy the xbox one on a game that is coded for API like DX12,mantle, Vulkan.
Red herring. Custom command processor doesn't solve shader bound issues.
@tormentos said:
But when i turn the argument against him and told him that since the Pro was 4.2TF with FP16 it was 8.4 and that it exceed scorpio he was fast to downplay the feature and attack the PS4 bandwidth even when FP16 also increase bandwidth efficiency by 2X stated by Nvidia it self.
DCC doesn't work under CUDA/OpenCL e.g. renewed crypo-mining. It's uncompressed brute memory bandwidth wins the day. This issue is NOT applicable for 3D games with active DCC. I was testing your knowledge on CUDA.
DCC is a data block compression feature i.e. works with textures and color block tiles.
Btw, AMD designed Polaris's subword FP16 feature to behave like CUDA's double rate FP16. Vega's double rate FP16 is different from CUDA's version.
SDWA operations seem nice, but how do they perform and how do you use them? In HIP, several SDWA math operations are implemented using the techniques described in this blog. A full list can be found here Link.
HIP is a portable higher level API that has similar syntax as CUDA which works on both AMD and NVIDIA GPUs. Module APIs from HIP can be utilized to load and run AMD GPU HSA code objects compiled offline. Using HIP several performance tests using the SDQA math operations were created, using the following techniques:
He actually did claim that Scorpio exceed the 1080GTX using FP16,the problem was Scorpio didn't have that feature,but never the less when it was unknown he try to argue it,but when it was confirmed that Scorpio didn't have FP16,he proceeded to downplay FP16,because people as such as my self started to hit him with its own argument..
He claim Scorpio with FP16 instead of 6TF was 12TF so it exceed it a 1080GTX...
But when i turn the argument against him and told him that since the Pro was 4.2TF with FP16 it was 8.4 and that it exceed scorpio he was fast to downplay the feature and attack the PS4 bandwidth even when FP16 also increase bandwidth efficiency by 2X stated by Nvidia it self..
Hahahaa..
He simply will not admit a loss the sad part is that he claim is not a personality war and that he is not a lemming..ahahahaha
ROFL, I remember he was always pimping FP16 now he backpedaled because it's not in the Scorpio?
He absolutely is a lemming and an AMD fanboy. Must suck always fighting for the losing side lol.
Polaris's double data rate FP16 feature.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not. However, customisation was extensive elsewhere. Microsoft's GPU command processor implementation of DX12 has provided big wins for Xbox One developers, and it's set for expansion in Scorpio.
I am correct on Scrpio's GPU solution is faster than RX-480 OC and R9-390X while slower than Vega 10.
@Juub1990 said:
He absolutely is a lemming and an AMD fanboy. Must suck always fighting for the losing side lol.
Personal attacks shows your arguments are garbage.
I own Intel CPUs since 2006 with Intel Core Duo and zero AMD desktop CPUs.
I own Geforce 8600M GT(bump gate), 9650M GT, 9500M GS (bump gate) ....then to GTX 980 Ti and GTX 1080 Ti. I have signed NVida Gameworks NDA and I hated the inability to share code..
Scorpio is faster than memory bottle-necked RX-580. LOL. RX-580 (32 fps) is already few fps from GTX 980 Ti (38 fps) i.e. 17 percent boost and it's GTX 980 Ti.
27 percent boost (full memory bandwidth difference with RX-580), it's GTX 1070...That's DF's Forza reveal GPU range.
ACS works with my effective memory bandwidth scaling just like Battlefield 1, Far Cry Primal, Doom Vulkan, F1 2016, Forza H3,
1. The point is you were trying to pimp the Scorpio achieving 4K/30fps in ACO like it was some kind of achievement when an old-ass 980 can reach 35+ fps at 4K in Syndicate lol.
2. Now you just proved that a mid-tier GPU like a 580 is also capable of achieving 30fps at max details
3. (and consoles almost never run on max settings).
4. The 1070 breezes through 30fps at 4K so it's not exactly impressive to do 30fps/4K in a game like Assassin's Creed.
1. Your GTX 980 has 1500 Mhz overclock which yields 6.1 TFLOPS with reduced graphics settings. You omitted 1500 Mhz overclock.
I also used R9-390X example.
Memory bottleneck RX-580 can already do 4K 32 fps with ultra settings.
Scorpio has more storage memory over GTX 980's 4 GB.
2. Scorpio is faster than memory bottlenecked RX-580.
3. "Consoles almost never run on max settings" is false e.g. Forza Scorpio reveal has PC's ultra settings.
Memory bottleneck RX-580 can already do 4K 32 fps with ultra settings. Your GTX 980 has 1500 Mhz overclock which yields 6.1 TFLOPS with reduced graphics settings. You omitted 1500 Mhz overclock.
Scorpio has more storage memory over GTX 980's 4 GB.
2. Scorpio is faster than memory bottlenecked RX-580.
3. "Consoles almost never run on max settings" is false e.g. Forza Scorpio reveal has PC's ultra settings.
4. Scorpio has smoother 4K 30 fps ACO dev build.
1. Which still doesn't matter because it's in the same ballpark as a 980. The overclock doesn't matter because it's an easily achievable overclock which actually makes PC even better given the fact that stock clocks can be increased for better performance, something that cannot be done on a console.
2. Great, Scorpio is faster than a mid-range card that trades blows with a card from 3 years ago. You do know the 980 was released back in 2014 and we're in the second half of 2017 now? Scorpio will be out and by that time 1180 will have come out or will soon be upon us and that card will trounce the 1080 Ti. A 1170 will be laughably ahead of a Scorpio. A 1160 will likely be significantly faster too.
3. Wow so one game runs on max settings and a racing game to boot lol. You know what "almost" means?
4. Yeah it's a dev build which is unfinished. Don't compare unfinished products. They don't represent the final result. The gap may widen or the gap may shrink, who knows?
For the record, I also already said the Scorpio's GPU will sit between a 980 and a 980 Ti. You're delusional if you think it'll beat a 1070 and retain a reasonable price.
The fact that Forza only utilizes two threads to any real degree means that hardware usage coding for the game in general is sub par making it as a example flawed. let alone the fact that GTX 1080ti downclocked to 6.5 TFLOP is not even a proper test to prove your flawed point..... Even if you downclocked a 1080ti to 6.5TF , its much better than what Scorpio could do for 4k not proving anything about bandwidth.
Your the fool in thinking that 50gb/s or less extra bandwidth on a gpu based on same architecture is going to yield sizable gains. Also tests on a RX 580 overclocked with an extra 210mhz core with memory overclock equaling to 288gb/s only yielded a whooping 7% gain over a stock RX 580. shows that your bandwidth effecting pixel fill rate or TFLOPS is not as near as important as you think.
Scorpio's gpu if its pixel rate sits below a RX 580 it is going to struggle at 4k, having to make compromises. It reaching GTX 1070 levels of performance is highly doubtful in that case.
Memory bottleneck RX-580 can already do 4K 32 fps with ultra settings. Your GTX 980 has 1500 Mhz overclock which yields 6.1 TFLOPS with reduced graphics settings. You omitted 1500 Mhz overclock.
Scorpio has more storage memory over GTX 980's 4 GB.
2. Scorpio is faster than memory bottlenecked RX-580.
3. "Consoles almost never run on max settings" is false e.g. Forza Scorpio reveal has PC's ultra settings.
4. Scorpio has smoother 4K 30 fps ACO dev build.
1. Which still doesn't matter because it's in the same ballpark as a 980. The overclock doesn't matter because it's an easily achievable overclock which actually makes PC even better given the fact that stock clocks can be increased for better performance, something that cannot be done on a console.
2. Great, Scorpio is faster than a mid-range card that trades blows with a card from 3 years ago. You do know the 980 was released back in 2014 and we're in the second half of 2017 now? Scorpio will be out and by that time 1180 will have come out or will soon be upon us and that card will trounce the 1080 Ti. A 1170 will be laughably ahead of a Scorpio. A 1160 will likely be significantly faster too.
3. Wow so one game runs on max settings and a racing game to boot lol. You know what "almost" means?
4. Yeah it's a dev build which is unfinished. Don't compare unfinished products. They don't represent the final result. The gap may widen or the gap may shrink, who knows?
For the record, I also already said the Scorpio's GPU will sit between a 980 and a 980 Ti. You're delusional if you think it'll beat a 1070 and retain a reasonable price.
1. 980 is gimped by 4 GB VRAM.
980's compressed effective memory bandwidth is similar to RX-480's 264 Gbps. Maxwell's DCC is less stable than Pascal's version.
2. So what. Not my argument.
3. So what. A view port in being rendered.
4. Both builds are still being optimized.
5. DF placed Scorpio being GTX 1070/Fury X class while the real Scorpio result has beaten GTX 1070 in sustained 4k/ 60 fps. Both Scorpio and GP104 has render to L2 cache usage, hence removing NVIDIA's advantage.
Scorpio's Forza's wet track has demonstrated TMU and ROPS loop low latency improvements.
5. DF placed Scorpio being GTX 1070/Fury X class while the real Scorpio result has beaten GTX 1070 in sustained 4k/ 60 fps. Both Scorpio and GP104 has render to L2 cache usage, hence removing NVIDIA's advantage.
Is this confirmed or inferred?
---
I ran a 5min test in The Witcher 3 at 4K/Ultra textures+console settings. Stuff like riding in the woods, looting a house, 2 monster nest encounters, firing off random signs. Smoke effects and dense foliage tend to induce drops. Had 30.6fps avg lowest was 23fps which was blowing up a nest or casting igni on a group of nekkers. The difference between flat 'Ultra' and 'Low/Med' mix with 'Ultra' textures was very minor at 4K. This is on RX 480(1305MHz)/FX-8350(2.3GHz).
If results match Forza wet track, Scorpio will hand in 10-15% better results than a 6TF RX 480 pretty commonly. That even puts BF1 at PS4 Pro settings but 'Ultra' textures added at 4K/60fps within reach(with dynamic scaling to 1800p occasionally).
People cant accept that scorpio will run 4k 60fps high settings. They try to ignore all the information calling it bot spam and then attacking scorpio all over again.
I own a ps4 pro and I love it. Will keep playing on my pro for a long time. But Scorpio is without doubt a monster 4k native machine. Im surelly gonna get one :)
People cant accept that scorpio will run 4k 60fps high settings. They try to ignore all the information calling it bot spam and then attacking scorpio all over again.
I own a ps4 pro and I love it. Will keep playing on my pro for a long time. But Scorpio is without doubt a monster 4k native machine. Im surelly gonna get one :)
With what MS has revealed , Scorpio is suppose to have 2.7x the fillrate compared to original X1 which means based on that tid bit. It should be operating at a rate at 36.8 G/Pixel/s, while PS4 Pro does 29.15 G/Pixel/s. So we are looking at around 26% increase in raw pixel pushing power. Note that AMD's polaris based gpus RX 480 does 40 G/Pixel/s, then RX 580 42.9 G/Pixel/s. We know Scorpio's gpu is Polaris based with some tweaks, but for all intensive purposes we can compare them. Now 4k 60 fps on high settings will not happen in many cases ,there will be quality compromises and or lower frame rate caps because of 4k target. Not even strong gpus like gtx 1080 which is around 60% faster than RX 580 at 4k and cant even achieve 60 fps average on ultra settings with quite a few games.
Polaris's double data rate FP16 feature. Eat It. To be enabled under Shader Model 6_1.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not.
You are so hypocrite that you quote an article that PROOF that Scorpio doesn't have FP16,and you selectively quote one part and let the part you don't like unbolded..hahahaaa
Thanks i didn't even have to quote MS you just did..
So 8.4TF > 6TF... Scorpio exceed and since FP16 help performance in bandwidth limited scenarios by 2X the Pro doesn't have a problem..
Damn sony was so smart using DCC + FP16 for maximum bandwidth usage..lol
The fact that Forza only utilizes two threads to any real degree means that hardware usage coding for the game in general is sub par making it as a example flawed. let alone the fact that GTX 1080ti downclocked to 6.5 TFLOP is not even a proper test to prove your flawed point..... Even if you downclocked a 1080ti to 6.5TF , its much better than what Scorpio could do for 4k not proving anything about bandwidth.
Your the fool in thinking that 50gb/s or less extra bandwidth on a gpu based on same architecture is going to yield sizable gains. Also tests on a RX 580 overclocked with an extra 210mhz core with memory overclock equaling to 288gb/s only yielded a whooping 7% gain over a stock RX 580. shows that your bandwidth effecting pixel fill rate or TFLOPS is not as near as important as you think.
Scorpio's gpu if its pixel rate sits below a RX 580 it is going to struggle at 4k, having to make compromises. It reaching GTX 1070 levels of performance is highly doubtful in that case.
The best part is how he compares the RX480 bandwidth with scorpio in such a biased way is not even funny.
The RX480 is Polaris based which mean it has DCC which improve by ""AMD claims"" bandwidth 35% so effectively is 256GB/s + 35% that means the RX480 has a 345GB/s effective bandwidth for it SELF not a shared one like scorpio which i think minimum can be 30GB/s reserve for system and CPU going by the xbox one reservation,i don't think they will increase speed 31% but not bandwidth for the CPU as well.
I love how he increase bandwidth on scorpio using DCC but some how the same doesn't apply to the RX480 which also has DCC.
@atomolog said:
People cant accept that scorpio will run 4k 60fps high settings. They try to ignore all the information calling it bot spam and then attacking scorpio all over again.
I own a ps4 pro and I love it. Will keep playing on my pro for a long time. But Scorpio is without doubt a monster 4k native machine. Im surelly gonna get one :)
The only people who think Scorpio is a monster 4k native machine are lemmings who are use to 720p xbox one games or don't know that PC exist.
Polaris's double data rate FP16 feature. Eat It. To be enabled under Shader Model 6_1.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not.
You are so hypocrite that you quote an article that PROOF that Scorpio doesn't have FP16,and you selectively quote one part and let the part you don't like unbolded..hahahaaa
Thanks i didn't even have to quote MS you just did..
So 8.4TF > 6TF... Scorpio exceed and since FP16 help performance in bandwidth limited scenarios by 2X the Pro doesn't have a problem..
Damn sony was so smart using DCC + FP16 for maximum bandwidth usage..lol
You know if the POS4 Pro was capable of 8.4TF Sony would be all over it! Sorry but even with FP16 and all the other secret sauce the best it can do is maybe 4.2TF.
The best part is how he compares the RX480 bandwidth with scorpio in such a biased way is not even funny.
The RX480 is Polaris based which mean it has DCC which improve by ""AMD claims"" bandwidth 35% so effectively is 256GB/s + 35% that means the RX480 has a 345GB/s effective bandwidth for it SELF not a shared one like scorpio which i think minimum can be 30GB/s reserve for system and CPU going by the xbox one reservation,i don't think they will increase speed 31% but not bandwidth for the CPU as well.
I love how he increase bandwidth on scorpio using DCC but some how the same doesn't apply to the RX480 which also has DCC.
Even if it had the full 326gb/s with DCC does not matter at all if the gpu itself cant push out the pixel rate to handle 4k without compromises. a RX 580 with 210mhz overclock with 1ghz overclock on memory allows 288gb/s with DCC to get an effective bandwidth of 388gb/s and yet only performed 7% faster than stock RX 580 at 1440p. And note that oc'ed RX 580 was operating nearly at 6.8 TFLOP.
You know if the POS4 Pro was capable of 8.4TF Sony would be all over it! Sorry but even with FP16 and all the other secret sauce the best it can do is maybe 4.2TF.
You really cant render a modern game with full FP 16 and keep the quality. All you can really do is render the less precise parts more efficiently speeding up those render tasks by 2x by fitting two of those 16bit tasks into a single 32bit register in the gpu. You could possibly gain some performance by using mixed precision. But there is no way a 4.2 TFLOP gpu would outclass a 6 TFLOP gpu even with Double FP16 with mix precision.
Even if it had the full 326gb/s with DCC does not matter at all if the gpu itself cant push out the pixel rate to handle 4k without compromises. a RX 580 with 210mhz overclock with 1ghz overclock on memory allows 288gb/s with DCC to get an effective bandwidth of 388gb/s and yet only performed 7% faster than stock RX 580 at 1440p. And note that oc'ed RX 580 was operating nearly at 6.8 TFLOP.
Yep..
I think he is to sold out on scorpio power.
@rrjim1 said:
You know if the POS4 Pro was capable of 8.4TF Sony would be all over it! Sorry but even with FP16 and all the other secret sauce the best it can do is maybe 4.2TF.
Actually that is not my argument is Ronvalencias argument been use against him.
@ronvalencia said:
Vega NCU enabled Scorpio could gimp current PC GPUs without double rate FP16 feature.
1. 4X rate integer 8 bit = 24 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds GTX 1080, GTX 1070, Fury X, 980 Ti
2. 2X rate integer 16 bit = 12 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds GTX 1080, GTX 1070, Fury X, 980 Ti
Yes FP16 can double performance,but no it can't be use on every single process and even i threw a shadow over Mark Cerny claim when he stated 8.4TF that claim came from sony by the way.
This is simple Ronvalencia was using Mark Cerny claims about FP16,because he believed that Scorpio would have FP16 and in many instances he openly claimed Scorpio exceed it a 1080gtx based on nothing but FP16,since scorpio is 6TF with FP16 it increased to 12TF,i laughed so hard because i challenge his notion and Mark Cerny as well.
But when scorpio was confirmed to not having that feature Ronvalencia begin to argue against FP16 which is a joke after he was so fiercely claiming that scorpio would exceed a 1080gtx.
So you see that is not my argument it is Roncalencia hahahahahaha so if Scorpio beat a 1080 using FP16,Pro beat scorpio using FP16 he can't have it both ways..hahahaha
Even if it had the full 326gb/s with DCC does not matter at all if the gpu itself cant push out the pixel rate to handle 4k without compromises. a RX 580 with 210mhz overclock with 1ghz overclock on memory allows 288gb/s with DCC to get an effective bandwidth of 388gb/s and yet only performed 7% faster than stock RX 580 at 1440p. And note that oc'ed RX 580 was operating nearly at 6.8 TFLOP.
Yep..
I think he is to sold out on scorpio power.
@rrjim1 said:
You know if the POS4 Pro was capable of 8.4TF Sony would be all over it! Sorry but even with FP16 and all the other secret sauce the best it can do is maybe 4.2TF.
Actually that is not my argument is Ronvalencias argument been use against him.
@ronvalencia said:
Vega NCU enabled Scorpio could gimp current PC GPUs without double rate FP16 feature.
1. 4X rate integer 8 bit = 24 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds GTX 1080, GTX 1070, Fury X, 980 Ti
2. 2X rate integer 16 bit = 12 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds GTX 1080, GTX 1070, Fury X, 980 Ti
Yes FP16 can double performance,but no it can't be use on every single process and even i threw a shadow over Mark Cerny claim when he stated 8.4TF that claim came from sony by the way.
This is simple Ronvalencia was using Mark Cerny claims about FP16,because he believed that Scorpio would have FP16 and in many instances he openly claimed Scorpio exceed it a 1080gtx based on nothing but FP16,since scorpio is 6TF with FP16 it increased to 12TF,i laughed so hard because i challenge his notion and Mark Cerny as well.
But when scorpio was confirmed to not having that feature Ronvalencia begin to argue against FP16 which is a joke after he was so fiercely claiming that scorpio would exceed a 1080gtx.
So you see that is not my argument it is Roncalencia hahahahahaha so if Scorpio beat a 1080 using FP16,Pro beat scorpio using FP16 he can't have it both ways..hahahaha
1. Your argument is a red herring for existing 3D game engine performance.
2. My Polaris source with double subword FP16 is a first party source i.e. AMD.
The following code shows how this is implemented using GCN ISA (going forward in this blog, all comparisons are against ISA capabilities of GFX 8 Fiji + Polaris):
In several Machine Learning algorithms, training the data on fp16 data types has been effective in increasing the execution rate.
SDWA operations seem nice, but how do they perform and how do you use them? In HIP, several SDWA math operations are implemented using the techniques described in this blog. A full list can be found here Link.
HIP is a portable higher level API that has similar syntax as CUDA which works on both AMD and NVIDIA GPUs. Module APIs from HIP can be utilized to load and run AMD GPU HSA code objects compiled offline.
Polaris's double data rate FP16 feature.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not. However, customisation was extensive elsewhere. Microsoft's GPU command processor implementation of DX12 has provided big wins for Xbox One developers, and it's set for expansion in Scorpio.
I am correct on Scrpio's GPU solution is faster than RX-480 OC and R9-390X while slower than Vega 10.
The edge for GTX1080 is the DCC compression and no requirement for FP16 re-programming.
@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:
Polaris's double data rate FP16 feature. Eat It. To be enabled under Shader Model 6_1.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not.
You are so hypocrite that you quote an article that PROOF that Scorpio doesn't have FP16,and you selectively quote one part and let the part you don't like unbolded..hahahaaa
Thanks i didn't even have to quote MS you just did..
So 8.4TF > 6TF... Scorpio exceed and since FP16 help performance in bandwidth limited scenarios by 2X the Pro doesn't have a problem..
Damn sony was so smart using DCC + FP16 for maximum bandwidth usage..lol
The difference between Polaris and Vega FP16 features.
1. Polaris subword FP16 doesn't increase math operation rate, but data processing rate increases.
2. Vega FP16 increases math operation rate with data processing rate increase.
Too bad for you, graphics processing already using FP16 formats.
RGBA16F <------ four FP16 data elements.
Reading from depth-ROPS, FP16 already boost 2X speed improvements. This is pixel shader path with ROPS read and write units i.e. the classic GPU workload.
So, what's left? dual subword FP16 yields register saving which enables more warp threads in flight with more than 24 data elements.
When both machines already uses heavy FP16 data formats with their graphics operations and it's TFLOPS are bottlenecked by memory bandwidth, the machine with the higher effective memory bandwidth and less data transfer bottlenecks is superior.
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