Should Sony completely redesign their controller next-gen?

Nope

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]The left thumb stick is in a more natural place on the 360, with your thumb pointing upwards instead of sideways.

cdragon_88

But your right thumb is still pointing sideways...

Only problem I have with the 360 controller is that its in offsetting (if thats the correct term) position. If they switched both sticks to upright, it'll be better, so that both hands will be in a natural state.

Until you play a game that requires more face button presses than camera control, in which case your right thumb is pointed "sideways" most of the time.

[QUOTE="_Cadbury_"]I would love to know where people are getting their 'facts' that the ps3 controller is unergonomic and that the stick placement on the 360 controller 'naturally fits' with peoples thumbs....RapidTurtle

Just hold a 360 controller. Theres your facts.

I have. I prefer the analogs position in the DS3. Honestly, the only thing the 360 controler has above the DS3 are the triggers imo

For me it goes:

D-pad - PS3

Trigers (LT/RT - L2/R2) - 360

Bumpers (LB/RB - L1/R1) - PS3

Analogs - Tie (PS3 wins in position, 360 wins in the type (concave form is better))

Buttons (X,Y,A,B - O,[],/\,X) - PS3 (I dont like the Bumping feeling of the 360 buttons)

Size - Subjective as 360 controller fits better in bigger hands while the DS3 fits better in smaller hands

All in all DS3 is better for me. The triggers and type of analogs are the only things that need fixing imho

One thing I really think they should do is proper triggers.

It's triggers are garbage, doesn't feel like I'm shooting a gun or driving a car good enough, needs to fix that for future PS systems.

Your one point is great. Try finding a dual shock type 3rd party controller for the Xbox. They aren't out there. Why? because the 360 style is the much better design.

They don't need a completely different design but they really need to make adjustments to the current one.

As mentioned by just about everyone before me, the triggers are HIDEOUS and the anolog sticks are convex. I sometimes feel like i'm playing with a slippery mushroom tbh.

Dpad - PS3

Triggers - 360

Bumpers - PS3

Stick - 360 position of the sticks, PS3 tension of the sticks (feels mushy, which is GOOD, makes your aim more stable)

Buttons - PS3 much more comfy

Shape - 360 fits nicely in my hand, PS3 has sharp corners

In the 4 years of owning a Playstation I don't think I've ever felt like I got a good GRIP on the dualshock. The plastic is shiny, the edges dig into my hand, I keep dropping it. The triggers, can't keep them down for long periods, fingers slide off.

On the other hand, when I'm playing anything where you have to keep mashing buttons, the 360 controller left me with a swollen thumb joint. And the 360 controller D-pad sucks.

The xbox ones might need a slight shaving off of some rubber, but they will fit. and finally, if your thumbs are touching, you are holding the controller wrong. The ps3 controller fits ANY size hand, because you don't GRIP it. It's intended to float in your fingers. Just beyond the edges of your palm.Sali217

Do you not see how you're actually illustrating the flaw in the DS controller? Controllers are supposed to be gripped. The fact that people need to adjust their handling of a controller to make it work in their hands is a design flaw. User interfaces are supposed to conform to human anatomy, not us trying to conform ourselves to the plastic. You would seriously suggest that 360 formfactor being contoured to fit in the hand is actually flawed? Really? Really???? :| :?

This just reinforces what I initially said; that people saying the DS being "perfect" have no sense of ergonomics.

I hate asymmetrical analog sticks because I have this weird disease that makes both of my hands, including my thumbs symmetrical.Sali217

You're right, but not in the way you think. It actually IS about thumb symmetry, which is not necessarily the same as stick symmetry. Look at it this way, when you're playing God of War, DMC, Dragon Age, Ninja Gaiden, Batman Arkham City, Assassin's Creed, Zelda, 3D mario games, or the plethora of action adventure games, what are the primary inputs? It's movement and action input (punching, jumping, power attacks, etc...).

In the pre-analog days when the d-pad was the default directional input, it was always across from the face buttons, as seen in the NES. SNES, Genesis, and even the original Playstation before they adapted analog sticks. So your thumbs were symmetrical as you moved and performed action in the game. But then when the analog stick was introduced, game design in 3D spaces and navigation made the stick the default and movement input, while the d-pad was relegated to secondary functions (weapon selections and other hot menus).

So as with the examples in my previous paragraph (such as GOW or Arkham City) to move around and perform your actions, it's the left stick and face buttons that should be symmetrical so that your thumbs are symmetrical. Logical, right?

And I know you're going to point out FPS/TPS (basically 3D shooters), but that's one, just one genre outnumbered by most others that still use the face buttons as the primary action input and not the triggers, which are still defacto for the most part. In most games (outside shooters) where you use the right stick to adjust the camera, this happens less often then when you're in combat or interacting with the environment.

I think it should be slightly larger and R2 & L2 not be rounded is all that should change.

[QUOTE="Sali217"]The xbox ones might need a slight shaving off of some rubber, but they will fit. and finally, if your thumbs are touching, you are holding the controller wrong. The ps3 controller fits ANY size hand, because you don't GRIP it. It's intended to float in your fingers. Just beyond the edges of your palm.AdobeArtist

Do you not see how you're actually illustrating the flaw in the DS controller? Controllers are supposed to be gripped. The fact that people need to adjust their handling of a controller to make it work in their hands is a design flaw. User interfaces are supposed to conform to human anatomy, not us trying to conform ourselves to the plastic. You would seriously suggest that 360 formfactor being contoured to fit in the hand is actually flawed? Really? Really???? :| :?

This just reinforces what I initially said; that people saying the DS being "perfect" have no sense of ergonomics.

Sali217

as long as its comfortable ergonomics dont mean crap. If you dont like it fine but dont demand a complete change jsut cause a few people have a problem with it. Buy a 3rd party controller i mean theres many after all. I played with the 360 controller tons of time and even though some say its the "better designed one" I prefer the dual shock.

It really does come down to a matter of preference, but when you hold a 360 controller, it just has such a natural feel to it vs the dual shock.

Played with it for years without problems , it's only after playing with the Xbox small and now Xbox 360 controller you feel the shortcomings , don't just copy the 360 controller though but improve on it !

Caseytappy

[QUOTE="RapidTurtle"]

[QUOTE="_Cadbury_"]I would love to know where people are getting their 'facts' that the ps3 controller is unergonomic and that the stick placement on the 360 controller 'naturally fits' with peoples thumbs....Vatusus

Just hold a 360 controller. Theres your facts.

I have. I prefer the analogs position in the DS3. Honestly, the only thing the 360 controler has above the DS3 are the triggers imo

For me it goes:

D-pad - PS3

Trigers (LT/RT - L2/R2) - 360

Bumpers (LB/RB - L1/R1) - PS3

Analogs - Tie (PS3 wins in position, 360 wins in the type (concave form is better))

Buttons (X,Y,A,B - O,[],/\,X) - PS3 (I dont like the Bumping feeling of the 360 buttons)

Size - Subjective as 360 controller fits better in bigger hands while the DS3 fits better in smaller hands

All in all DS3 is better for me. The triggers and type of analogs are the only things that need fixing imho

Essentially, the PS3's controller is so old that it qualifies to be called "retro," and pretty much the only retro controllers I can thing of that was comfortable for long periods of use were Sega's 6 button controllers. They were not as versatile as Nintendo's since they were designed to play fighting games, however when it came to comfort I think Sega definitely had the upperhand.

Sony's controllers were great for the time they came out, but it's been almost 2 decades with no change, and there have been plenty of controllers in the last 10 years that have surpassed Sony's in comfort. It's high time the original Dualshock controller was retired to retro-ville, because I think a lot of people have gotten tired of seeing the exact same thing with no improvements every time Sony releases a new console.

Well said.

make the triggers to they curve into your fingers like 360s only thing i would change.

ur fingers can slip off the triggers really easy compared to 360 because they just slope down instead of curving upwards.

[QUOTE="Sali217"]The xbox ones might need a slight shaving off of some rubber, but they will fit. and finally, if your thumbs are touching, you are holding the controller wrong. The ps3 controller fits ANY size hand, because you don't GRIP it. It's intended to float in your fingers. Just beyond the edges of your palm.AdobeArtist

Do you not see how you're actually illustrating the flaw in the DS controller? Controllers are supposed to be gripped. The fact that people need to adjust their handling of a controller to make it work in their hands is a design flaw. User interfaces are supposed to conform to human anatomy, not us trying to conform ourselves to the plastic. You would seriously suggest that 360 formfactor being contoured to fit in the hand is actually flawed? Really? Really???? :| :?

This just reinforces what I initially said; that people saying the DS being "perfect" have no sense of ergonomics.

I hate asymmetrical analog sticks because I have this weird disease that makes both of my hands, including my thumbs symmetrical.Sali217

You're right, but not in the way you think. It actually IS about thumb symmetry, which is not necessarily the same as stick symmetry. Look at it this way, when you're playing God of War, DMC, Dragon Age, Ninja Gaiden, Batman Arkham City, Assassin's Creed, Zelda, 3D mario games, or the plethora of action adventure games, what are the primary inputs? It's movement and action input (punching, jumping, power attacks, etc...).

In the pre-analog days when the d-pad was the default directional input, it was always across from the face buttons, as seen in the NES. SNES, Genesis, and even the original Playstation before they adapted analog sticks. So your thumbs were symmetrical as you moved and performed action in the game. But then when the analog stick was introduced, game design in 3D spaces and navigation made the stick the default and movement input, while the d-pad was relegated to secondary functions (weapon selections and other hot menus).

So as with the examples in my previous paragraph (such as GOW or Arkham City) to move around and perform your actions, it's the left stick and face buttons that should be symmetrical so that your thumbs are symmetrical. Logical, right?

And I know you're going to point out FPS/TPS (basically 3D shooters), but that's one, just one genre outnumbered by most others that still use the face buttons as the primary action input and not the triggers, which are still defacto for the most part. In most games (outside shooters) where you use the right stick to adjust the camera, this happens less often then when you're in combat or interacting with the environment.

The only thing wrong with the PS3 controller is the triggers. PS controllers have changed so little over the years because they don't need to. It doesn't need a major change and I don't want a major change. If it aint broke don't fix it. Just get triggers on par with the 360.

The only thing wrong with the PS3 controller is the triggers. PS controllers have changed so little over the years because they don't need to. It doesn't need a major change and I don't want a major change. If it aint broke don't fix it. Just get triggers on par with the 360.

burgeg

It only fits kid hands. They need to make it bigger to accomadate a grown man's hand.

[QUOTE="Sali217"]The xbox ones might need a slight shaving off of some rubber, but they will fit. and finally, if your thumbs are touching, you are holding the controller wrong. The ps3 controller fits ANY size hand, because you don't GRIP it. It's intended to float in your fingers. Just beyond the edges of your palm.AdobeArtist

Do you not see how you're actually illustrating the flaw in the DS controller? Controllers are supposed to be gripped. The fact that people need to adjust their handling of a controller to make it work in their hands is a design flaw. User interfaces are supposed to conform to human anatomy, not us trying to conform ourselves to the plastic. You would seriously suggest that 360 formfactor being contoured to fit in the hand is actually flawed? Really? Really???? :| :?

This just reinforces what I initially said; that people saying the DS being "perfect" have no sense of ergonomics.

No, sorry, there's no law that says you have to strangle the controller like it's going to fly out of your hands. I never in all my years of using a PS2 or PS3 had to stop and figure out "Hmmm, how am I supposed to hold this controller?" because the shape of the thing makes it incredibly obvious how you're supposed to hold it. Only if you haven't spent much time using a Dualshock would it be any sort of problem to adjust your grip.

Actually I was already used to wildly different controller shapes by the time I got a PS2, since I already owned a NES, a Genesis, an N64, and a Gamecube, all of which have controllers that are held somewhat differently. So I can't imagine how someone would be confused about how to approach a Dualshock unless they had literally only used Xbox systems before (or the Dreamcast).

And your ergonomics thing never held water in the first place. The idea that I can find a controller comfortable and yet have to say "Well, objectively this is not ergonomic" is total bunk.

It only fits kid hands. They need to make it bigger to accomadate a grown man's hand.

Cubs360

they need to change the shoulder buttons a bit, outside of that I like the current controller though. I find the 360 one superior(outside of that god awful Dpad) but it's still a good solid controller.

they need to change the shoulder buttons a bit, outside of that I like the current controller though. I find the 360 one superior(outside of that god awful Dpad) but it's still a good solid controller.

dragonfly110

Mad Catz makes a pro tounament controller where you can swap out the left stick and the D-Pad, making it so that you could have 360 style or PS3 style. If they could do this, then it could be the solution for everyone.

Not to worry since the PS4 will utilize the old.... You are the controller technique :o :twisted:

It seems to be we are at an impasse the only ones not wanting it to change and claiming it is perfect are charlie sheen's but then again these are the same folks that so far I believe have claimed that some how the 360's analog sticks have super sharp edges that cut you, and pushing down even a little bit on the triggers hurts your fingers *where on the dual shock a time inversion happens so that no cause and affect occures so your button push did occur but to save your fingers it never actually occured...* along with a few other things.

Why change perfection?

I love my fighting games and racers, best D-pad there is and pedal like triggers, more of this sony no changes :D

It seems to be we are at an impasse the only ones not wanting it to change and claiming it is perfect are charlie sheen's but then again these are the same folks that so far I believe have claimed that some how the 360's analog sticks have super sharp edges that cut you, and pushing down even a little bit on the triggers hurts your fingers *where on the dual shock a time inversion happens so that no cause and affect occures so your button push did occur but to save your fingers it never actually occured...* along with a few other things.

WilliamRLBaker

so you have to insult those who feel there is no need for change. Im down for change on the l2 and r2 but not down with a complete rehaul. Its not needed just to please some people.