SW, what is it about the wii that makes so many of you inherently hate it?

What I hate about the Wii:

-Developers milk it and use it as a fad. Many people do not care to use the console to make quality games, they use it to make quick money. Shovelware annoys me.

-It's overpriced. $250 is too much. Nintendo knows it, but they dont change it. Fortunately for them, they sell like crazy.

-Nintendo is on cruise control. Compare them to Sony's software lineup and you can see Sony trying. When pushed against a wall, a company like Sony will try to compete. Nintendo has no competitive drive. They do not care. They don't have to, nor do they want to cater to what the fans have been asking for.

-Pathetic Online Service

Generally, I hate that Nintendo has been so successful because it has allowed them to pull out of the gaming industry and become something too broad.

Alpha-Male22

Generally speaking even if this is not really the point of the thread, (I'm not sure whether you actually read the opening) I will try and give some sort of competent answer before I turn in.

-Shovelware is annoying but, you must inherently hate the NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 for this to be a point. I really doubt that's the case.

-$250 isn't really overpriced ecause that is what the market is willing to pay for and sees value in. You don't drop the price when you're selling, you sell because you have value at your price so this overpriced business is rather strange. Maybe you don't see value in it but by market terms its not overpriced to my knowledge.

- The line up is really more of an opinion thing, I look at the line up and see, SMG2, Metorid Other M, Zelda Wii, Sin and Punishment 2, Project Sora, Pikmin 3 etc all in the pipeline and see there is effort being thrown in. I don't really think this is fair to assume. It seems more like a dislike for the software is driving this thought more so than lack of effort. I mean in my situation, Nintedo is catering to me and Sony isn't but I would never say Sony isn't trying.

- Online, No arguments here, service absolutely blows.

- I would love an expansion on the last point because I don't get it.

[QUOTE="Alpha-Male22"]

What I hate about the Wii:

-Developers milk it and use it as a fad. Many people do not care to use the console to make quality games, they use it to make quick money. Shovelware annoys me.

-It's overpriced. $250 is too much. Nintendo knows it, but they dont change it. Fortunately for them, they sell like crazy.

-Nintendo is on cruise control. Compare them to Sony's software lineup and you can see Sony trying. When pushed against a wall, a company like Sony will try to compete. Nintendo has no competitive drive. They do not care. They don't have to, nor do they want to cater to what the fans have been asking for.

-Pathetic Online Service

Generally, I hate that Nintendo has been so successful because it has allowed them to pull out of the gaming industry and become something too broad.

ActicEdge

Generally speaking even if this is not really the point of the thread, (I'm not sure whether you actually read the opening) I will try and give some sort of competent answer before I turn in.

-Shovelware is annoying but, you must inherently hate the NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 for this to be a point. I really doubt that's the case.

-$250 isn't really overpriced ecause that is what the market is willing to pay for and sees value in. You don't drop the price when you're selling, you sell because you have value at your price so this overpriced business is rather strange. Maybe you don't see value in it but by market terms its not overpriced to my knowledge.

- The line up is really more of an opinion thing, I look at the line up and see, SMG2, Metorid Other M, Zelda Wii, Sin and Punishment 2, Project Sora, Pikmin 3 etc all in the pipeline and see there is effort being thrown in. I don't really think this is fair to assume. It seems more like a dislike for the software is driving this thought more so than lack of effort. I mean in my situation, Nintedo is catering to me and Sony isn't but I would never say Sony isn't trying.

- Online, No arguments here, service absolutely blows.

- I would love an expansion on the last point because I don't get it.

- The PS1 and PS2 had nowhere near the proportion of shovelware to quality titles the wii has

- I expected more from you. There is such a thing as inherent value. Whatever consumers are willing to pay is whatever consumers are willing to pay, but when it comes to manaufactured goods like computers and videogame consoles value is based on what they actually have to offer. Obviously the Wii is vastly overpriced and could easily be sold for $100 and still make a profit.

[QUOTE="Alpha-Male22"]

What I hate about the Wii:

-Developers milk it and use it as a fad. Many people do not care to use the console to make quality games, they use it to make quick money. Shovelware annoys me.

-It's overpriced. $250 is too much. Nintendo knows it, but they dont change it. Fortunately for them, they sell like crazy.

-Nintendo is on cruise control. Compare them to Sony's software lineup and you can see Sony trying. When pushed against a wall, a company like Sony will try to compete. Nintendo has no competitive drive. They do not care. They don't have to, nor do they want to cater to what the fans have been asking for.

-Pathetic Online Service

Generally, I hate that Nintendo has been so successful because it has allowed them to pull out of the gaming industry and become something too broad.

ActicEdge

Generally speaking even if this is not really the point of the thread, (I'm not sure whether you actually read the opening) I will try and give some sort of competent answer before I turn in.

-Shovelware is annoying but, you must inherently hate the NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 for this to be a point. I really doubt that's the case.

-$250 isn't really overpriced ecause that is what the market is willing to pay for and sees value in. You don't drop the price when you're selling, you sell because you have value at your price so this overpriced business is rather strange. Maybe you don't see value in it but by market terms its not overpriced to my knowledge.

- The line up is really more of an opinion thing, I look at the line up and see, SMG2, Metorid Other M, Zelda Wii, Sin and Punishment 2, Project Sora, Pikmin 3 etc all in the pipeline and see there is effort being thrown in. I don't really think this is fair to assume. It seems more like a dislike for the software is driving this thought more so than lack of effort. I mean in my situation, Nintedo is catering to me and Sony isn't but I would never say Sony isn't trying.

- Online, No arguments here, service absolutely blows.

- I would love an expansion on the last point because I don't get it.

No I don't. There were enough good games to look forward to when it came to something like the PS2. The PS2 boasts one of the greatest libraries of gaming. Sure, they had their share of bad developers making games for the console, but there was always something to play for the PS2. I dont find that with the Wii. I find that the Wii constantly releases bad games. The motion control is abused as a gimmick, and there is rarely a consistency of good games for the Wii that justify the average "bad" game.

Just because the market is willing to pay for an overpriced console does not justify the value of a console. The perception of value does not make something valuable. I can subjectively make something valuable, but that does not make something physically worth what I value it to be. For example. a t-shirt with the signature of my favorite dead artist can be valuable. If I put a $250 price tag on this t-shirt, are you telling me this t-shirt is worth $250 objectively?

The Wii is greatly desired by many people, but I do not see how this has any relevancy to the point that the Wii is an overpriced piece of hardware.

Ok, but I don't think its fair to assume that any of those games are going to be great. I wasn't talking about the future either. I was talking about the present in which Nintendo has not done much with lately.

They have no excuse for their online play. Again, this is more proof of Nintendo not giving what the fans want-- this is 2009. Nintendo's excuse is that they dont think online is safe. They simply refuse to make it safe.

I already explained it in the following sentences. I think Nintendo has become a superstar. They no longer need to work hard (for example, improve online services). All they need to do is sit back and rake in the cash. They are so far ahead of the competition and they are so out of the world of the gaming industry that they have pushed themselves into the braoder, casual scene.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Alpha-Male22"]

What I hate about the Wii:

-Developers milk it and use it as a fad. Many people do not care to use the console to make quality games, they use it to make quick money. Shovelware annoys me.

-It's overpriced. $250 is too much. Nintendo knows it, but they dont change it. Fortunately for them, they sell like crazy.

-Nintendo is on cruise control. Compare them to Sony's software lineup and you can see Sony trying. When pushed against a wall, a company like Sony will try to compete. Nintendo has no competitive drive. They do not care. They don't have to, nor do they want to cater to what the fans have been asking for.

-Pathetic Online Service

Generally, I hate that Nintendo has been so successful because it has allowed them to pull out of the gaming industry and become something too broad.

hakanakumono

Generally speaking even if this is not really the point of the thread, (I'm not sure whether you actually read the opening) I will try and give some sort of competent answer before I turn in.

-Shovelware is annoying but, you must inherently hate the NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 for this to be a point. I really doubt that's the case.

-$250 isn't really overpriced ecause that is what the market is willing to pay for and sees value in. You don't drop the price when you're selling, you sell because you have value at your price so this overpriced business is rather strange. Maybe you don't see value in it but by market terms its not overpriced to my knowledge.

- The line up is really more of an opinion thing, I look at the line up and see, SMG2, Metorid Other M, Zelda Wii, Sin and Punishment 2, Project Sora, Pikmin 3 etc all in the pipeline and see there is effort being thrown in. I don't really think this is fair to assume. It seems more like a dislike for the software is driving this thought more so than lack of effort. I mean in my situation, Nintedo is catering to me and Sony isn't but I would never say Sony isn't trying.

- Online, No arguments here, service absolutely blows.

- I would love an expansion on the last point because I don't get it.

- The PS1 and PS2 had nowhere near the proportion of shovelware to quality titles the wii has

- I expected more from you. There is such a thing as inherent value. Whatever consumers are willing to pay is whatever consumers are willing to pay, but when it comes to manaufactured goods like computers and videogame consoles value is based on what they actually have to offer. Obviously the Wii is vastly overpriced and could easily be sold for $100 and still make a profit.

- I'm sorry but on the first point he has to expand as to why or I have nothing to go one. He said he hates shovelware, those consoles had ots of shovelware. Thus he hates those consoles. If he expanded his point I would have more to go on. He mentioned nothing of quality, just that he disliked shovelware.

- Don't expect anything from me. I'm posting how I understand it, according to what I've read and heard from strong posters with financial backround like SUD12345 and Subrosian, you are wrong. Value is in the eye of the customer. (correct me if I'm wrong one of you) This is what I have heard them say, this is what I have read and this is what I'm going off, there really isn't an argument here.

Compared to PS3 and 360, it's not a featured enough console. If it had generalized online support (i.e. cross-game chat, no annoying Friend Codes, easy party creation, etc.), more WiiWare games, a good voice chat system, a video marketplace, a DLC/demo marketplace, and a DVD player it would be a perfectly good console, but as it has none of those things, and limited technology on top of that, it's really just not at the same level as the other two consoles this gen.

That said there's plenty of Wii titles I greatly enjoy, but it's simply not on the same plane as Microsoft and Sony's consoles.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Generally speaking even if this is not really the point of the thread, (I'm not sure whether you actually read the opening) I will try and give some sort of competent answer before I turn in.

-Shovelware is annoying but, you must inherently hate the NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 for this to be a point. I really doubt that's the case.

-$250 isn't really overpriced ecause that is what the market is willing to pay for and sees value in. You don't drop the price when you're selling, you sell because you have value at your price so this overpriced business is rather strange. Maybe you don't see value in it but by market terms its not overpriced to my knowledge.

- The line up is really more of an opinion thing, I look at the line up and see, SMG2, Metorid Other M, Zelda Wii, Sin and Punishment 2, Project Sora, Pikmin 3 etc all in the pipeline and see there is effort being thrown in. I don't really think this is fair to assume. It seems more like a dislike for the software is driving this thought more so than lack of effort. I mean in my situation, Nintedo is catering to me and Sony isn't but I would never say Sony isn't trying.

- Online, No arguments here, service absolutely blows.

- I would love an expansion on the last point because I don't get it.

ActicEdge

- The PS1 and PS2 had nowhere near the proportion of shovelware to quality titles the wii has

- I expected more from you. There is such a thing as inherent value. Whatever consumers are willing to pay is whatever consumers are willing to pay, but when it comes to manaufactured goods like computers and videogame consoles value is based on what they actually have to offer. Obviously the Wii is vastly overpriced and could easily be sold for $100 and still make a profit.

- I'm sorry but on the first point he has to expand as to why or I have nothing to go one. He said he hates shovelware, those consoles had ots of shovelware. Thus he hates those consoles. If he expanded his point I would have more to go on. He mentioned nothing of quality, just that he disliked shovelware.

- Don't expect anything from me. I'm posting how I understand it, according to what I've read and heard from strong posters with financial backround like SUD12345 and Subrosian, you are wrong. Value is in the eye of the customer. (correct me if I'm wrong one of you) This is what I have heard them say, this is what I have read and this is what I'm going off, there really isn't an argument here.

-I didn't think you were going to engage me. Judging from the title of your thread, it looked as if you were wondering why people hated the Wii. I gave my opinion. Since you challenged it, I have expanded on it. I do not mean that I hate shovelware. I hate the fact that the Wii's shovelware to good games ratio is poor.

- Value can be in the eye of the consumer, but that's subjective value. That's fine. I am not arguing that. I stated that as I understand it, the Wii is a relatively cheap and limited piece of hardware whose $250 price tag does not justify its limited capabilities. This is objectively true-- especially when I can compare it to the hardware capabilities of a Playstation 3 or an Xbox 360. When compared to such other pieces of hardware, it is clear that the Wii is overpriced: you pay more than what you can get.

Lack of third party support and arguably first party support as well. It's like nintendo isn't even trying anymore. It's quite sad really.

Lack of third party support and arguably first party support as well. It's like nintendo isn't even trying anymore. It's quite sad really.

Trinners

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Alpha-Male22"]

What I hate about the Wii:

-Developers milk it and use it as a fad. Many people do not care to use the console to make quality games, they use it to make quick money. Shovelware annoys me.

-It's overpriced. $250 is too much. Nintendo knows it, but they dont change it. Fortunately for them, they sell like crazy.

-Nintendo is on cruise control. Compare them to Sony's software lineup and you can see Sony trying. When pushed against a wall, a company like Sony will try to compete. Nintendo has no competitive drive. They do not care. They don't have to, nor do they want to cater to what the fans have been asking for.

-Pathetic Online Service

Generally, I hate that Nintendo has been so successful because it has allowed them to pull out of the gaming industry and become something too broad.

Alpha-Male22

Generally speaking even if this is not really the point of the thread, (I'm not sure whether you actually read the opening) I will try and give some sort of competent answer before I turn in.

-Shovelware is annoying but, you must inherently hate the NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 for this to be a point. I really doubt that's the case.

-$250 isn't really overpriced ecause that is what the market is willing to pay for and sees value in. You don't drop the price when you're selling, you sell because you have value at your price so this overpriced business is rather strange. Maybe you don't see value in it but by market terms its not overpriced to my knowledge.

- The line up is really more of an opinion thing, I look at the line up and see, SMG2, Metorid Other M, Zelda Wii, Sin and Punishment 2, Project Sora, Pikmin 3 etc all in the pipeline and see there is effort being thrown in. I don't really think this is fair to assume. It seems more like a dislike for the software is driving this thought more so than lack of effort. I mean in my situation, Nintedo is catering to me and Sony isn't but I would never say Sony isn't trying.

- Online, No arguments here, service absolutely blows.

- I would love an expansion on the last point because I don't get it.

No I don't. There were enough good games to look forward to when it came to something like the PS2. The PS2 boasts one of the greatest libraries of gaming. Sure, they had their share of bad developers making games for the console, but there was always something to play for the PS2. I dont find that with the Wii. I find that the Wii constantly releases bad games. The motion control is abused as a gimmick, and there is rarely a consistency of good games for the Wii that justify the average "bad" game.

Just because the market is willing to pay for an overpriced console does not justify the value of a console. The perception of value does not make something physically valuable.

Ok, but I don't think its fair to assume that any of those games are going to be great. I wasn't talking about the future either. I was talking about the present in which Nintendo has not done much with lately.

They have no excuse for their online play. Again, this is more proof of Nintendo not giving what the fans want-- this is 2009. Nintendo's excuse is that they dont think online is safe. They simply refuse to make it safe.

I already explained it in the following sentences. I think Nintendo has become a superstar. They no longer need to work hard (for example, improve online services). All they need to do is sit back and rake in the cash. They are so far ahead of the competition and they are so out of the world of the gaming industry that they have pushed themselves into the braoder, casual scene.

You have to say that in your first post then, I can only comment on what you post. If you have an issue with the wiis ;ibrary I'm not sure what shovelware has to do with it honestly. All you need to say is the lidrary doesn't deliver but making an exception for some shovelware and not other is really strange to me. If it annoys you then it annoys you, I'm not sure why there is some reason to defend PS2 shovelware but not Wii, NES, SNES, PS1 etc. Its all inherently the same thing

I actually believe it does. What people are willing to pay for it is the value. If you produce a $100 product and no one will pay a $100 for it, is it still worth a $100? Sure maybe to the company but the value is not there to the only person who matters, the consumer. (this is what I have heard, I will research it, tomorrow because its late where I am)

And we are assuming Son'y titles will be great thenn because? SMG out ranks every Sony game this gen (even if I hate reviews), this isn't something you really should comment on. You're using taste against AAA franchises so this isn't fairness, its just your opinon which is not a weapon in a debate. As for nintendo not doing much lately I'm not sure, they had two AAgames come out on the wii. More than MS (though this isn't about MS) compared to Sony's 3 AAA. Sony is haviing a good year, I'm not sure how that makes nintendo less good however.

You're arguing with yourself on this one. I already agreed.

So you are basically what the opening is describing? I would respeond to you on this but I've done it so many times in this thread that for the sake of my moderation history, I'll let it slide.

Lack of third party support and arguably first party support as well. It's like nintendo isn't even trying anymore. It's quite sad really.

Trinners

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

Lack of third party support and arguably first party support as well. It's like nintendo isn't even trying anymore. It's quite sad really.

Alpha-Male22

If you do nothing prominant when you are on top, you lose that position. That's how both nintendo and Sony lost there positions to each other. (this goes beyond releasing games.)

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

Lack of third party support and arguably first party support as well. It's like nintendo isn't even trying anymore. It's quite sad really.

NinjaDuckling

By third party support I meant original third party wii games not watered down ps360 ports. The majority of wii owners only buy nintendo software and thus why original third party wii games tank in sales. And as an aside, the online service for the wii is an abomination.

[QUOTE="Alpha-Male22"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

ActicEdge

You have to say that in your first post then, I can only comment on what you post. If you have an issue with the wiis ;ibrary I'm not sure what shovelware has to do with it honestly. All you need to say is the lidrary doesn't deliver but making an exception for some shovelware and not other is really strange to me. If it annoys you then it annoys you, I'm not sure why there is some reason to defend PS2 shovelware but not Wii, NES, SNES, PS1 etc. Its all inherently the same thing

I actually believe it does. What people are willing to pay for it is the value. If you produce a $100 product and no one will pay a $100 for it, is it still worth a $100? Sure maybe to the company but the value is not there to the only person who matters, the consumer. (this is what I have heard, I will research it, tomorrow because its late where I am)

And we are assuming Son'y titles will be great thenn because? SMG out ranks every Sony game this gen (even if I hate reviews), this isn't something you really should comment on. You're using taste against AAA franchises so this isn't fairness, its just your opinon which is not a weapon in a debate. As for nintendo not doing much lately I'm not sure, they had two AAgames come out on the wii. More than MS (though this isn't about MS) compared to Sony's 3 AAA. Sony is haviing a good year, I'm not sure how that makes nintendo less good however.

You're arguing with yourself on this one. I already agreed.

So you are basically what the opening is describing? I would respeond to you on this but I've done it so many times in this thread that for the sake of my moderation history, I'll let it slide.

I dont have an issue with the Wii's library. I have an issue with the fact that there is significantly more shovelware than good games. This isn't an overall thing. On a monthly basis, the Wii comes out with such insignificant software than they do come out with solid software. It's not entirely the Wii I'm blaming. I hate the fact that developers use the Wii as a quick cash cow, or as a gimmick.

If I produce a $100 product and it doesn't sell, it doesn't make the product not worth $100. I actually find this a bit vague and can see many underlying variables. Maybe the product wasn't marketed properly. Maybe the product is outdated. Either way, this has no bearing on the product's worth. We have a misunderstanding of what "value" means. You seem to think that the value of a product is dependent on the consumer. However this type of value is different from what I am trying to argue. I am trying to say that what the consumer percieves is not important. There are too many perceptions of value any number of individuals can testify to. I am trying to argue that when you take into consideration the technical aspects of the Wii, it is overpriced. I don't want to use the word "value" like you do. I want to use the term "justified". The Wii can still be valuable, but I feel that the hardware capabilities of the Wii is unjust to its price point. This point is driven further with the fact that when compared to other consoles this generation, the Wii's $250 price point in relation highlights the unjustness of charging $250 for an inferior piece of hardware.

To put it quite simply, I would like to reinstate that value is subjective as its dependent on an individuals perception. This is not what I am arguing. I am saying that objectively, the Wii is overpriced. The evidence I use for this objectivity is the relation I make to the PS3 and 360, and the technical features of the Wii in comparison to its price. If you want to argue about perspective value, then I believe that it is fair to say that a number of people find the Wii to be invaluable as it is clear that you made this thread because there is a fair amount of people who agree with me. The point is, if we were to argue subjectively about value, you can be right and I can be right. The Wii can be valuable to a customer just because he sees value in it, but if that's the line of reasoning you are going to use, then I can see no value in the Wii just because I see no value in it. The problem is that we reach no conclusion.

Since I do not argue this because it leads to no real conclusion, I'd like to reiterate that my argument comes from objectivity, in which we can clearly compare and see that when comparing hardware capability to price, the Wii is outperformed and outmatched. The Wii is therefore overpriced.

I never said anything about Sony's future titles. I am not using tastes. I am simply withholding from your assumption that AAA franchises will produce AAA titles. As for Nintendo coming out with two AA titles compared to Sony's 3 AAA titles, this already proves that Nintendo is not on par with Sony. However, this has no indication on Nintendo not doing much.

I want to drive an additional point: Both the PS3 and 360 have numerous A, AA, and AAA multi platform titles that are incapable on the Wii. Again, the Wii is an inferior piece of hardware that is outperformed by other consoles this gen for a much cheaper price in relation.

Since you are not sure how this makes Nintedo less good, I will state it plainly: The Wii is "less good" because it has less criticially acclaimed titles than the PS3. This is just looking at exclusives this year though. Why stop there? Overall, the Wii is "less good" because it is lags severely behind the multiplatform titles only capable on the 360 and PS3.

Thus, for $250, you pay for a limited deal of software. This wouldn't be a problem if the software on the Wii showed good consistency, but since shovelware far outperforms the number of good titles, it is clear that the Wii is not consistent.

I wasn't arguing.

I don't care about future titles, I do not know how they will turn out. I can only go on what has been offered so far. Nintendo so far has not done enough.

[QUOTE="NinjaDuckling"][QUOTE="Trinners"]

Lack of third party support and arguably first party support as well. It's like nintendo isn't even trying anymore. It's quite sad really.

Trinners

By third party support I meant original third party wii games

Which there is plenty of if, you know, do some research...

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="NinjaDuckling"] People are still using the 'lack of third party support' card, aren't they? It's time to do some research my friend...seriously.goblaa

By third party support I meant original third party wii games

Which there is plenty of if, you know, do some research...

I also don't understand a lot of the hate on the Wii because so much of it doesn't make sense.

"It has too much shovelware" - Don't. Buy. It. Any person who knows how to use the internet can distinguish a good game from a bad. Even those who don't do research on the video games they buy who do end up purchasing shovelware aren't the sole reason why there's so much of it. The sales are terrible on bad wii games just as they are on PS3 and 360 games. It's not hard to overlook the shovelware of crap on Wii shelves.

"It's for little kids/old people/casuals" - I hate this answer because no matter how many times you prove people wrong they still don't shut up. The Wii currently has a decent (in worst case scenario terms) selection of games for the "hardcore" crowd that is still improving in time. I do admit, there are long periods of time when good games are few and far between so yeah, if you have to kick a Wii when it's down I'm sure it's best to do it when it isn't getting good third party support from No More Heroes or Medal of Honor 2: Heroes. Or getting game of the year with Mario Galaxy. Or continuing to get the continuous stream of great, never experienced before moments with Wii Sports, ExciteTruck, and Zelda. It has a decent selection for ALL KINDS OF GAMERS. Get over it. It may not be asgood as the PS3 or 360 in some peoples eyes. But it is a very strong lineup that is only getting stronger.

"I feel like an idiot with all the waggling I'm doing." - You know the guy who plays card games, board games, and party games that annoys everybody because he half-asses the rules, cheats,and tries to ruin everyones good time because "this is dumb." You've become that guy.

"I don't like waggle. It's a one hit wonder" - Hey, I get it. Not everyone likes the same thing. That's what makes variety great. But don't bash a console because you're in the minority. Most people love the waggle controls and still do. Why else do you think MS and Sony are making similar motion controls? Because of all the money Nintendo is losing because of their horrible motion controls? No, they know what majority gamers want.

The Wii is great for gamers in the long run and is a step in the right direction of what this industy needs. It's just amazing how so few people can see that.

I dislike the wii because it is vastly overpriced (imo), and has become the atari of this generation with all the shovelware they're allowing to be released on the system. Luckily there is microsoft and sony, otherwise I could easily see another video-game crash.

Not enough games that interest me have been released for me to consider a purchase.. I don't hate it though, I just think currently its library is lacking.

There are many reasons why people might dislike the wii as people have already stated in prior posts. But I believe that it comes down to the fact that the wii is pretty much destroying the competition despite all these "reasons to dislike the wii."

Some people find the wii, its controls and its games to be lame or kiddish, which could probably be due to the marketing and how some of the consoles biggest hits are games aimed at a younger audience, and so they can't comprehend how their favourite platforms were being beaten by "something like the wii", and how their favourite games would never come close to selling as much as "something like wii sports".

Then there are people who find it "cheap" that Nintendo is using pretty much the same hardware from their console last gen with only one noteworthy addition, that being the motion sensing controls. And to them that alone is not good enough to justify its huge success. Some would even dislike that its success comes from its "gimmicky" controls.

And seeing how most of its success came from their appeal to casual gamers, some hardcore gamers don't wish to see it successful as they fear that might lead to other game developers taking the casual route just for profit.

And the last bunch I can think of are those that feel that Nintendo aren't doing enough for how much they make from the wii.

Whatever the reason, it doesn't take much for that dislike to turn to hate. Rather, it's much harder to keep it from turning to hate, especially when they spend a good deal of their time on SW :/

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

By third party support I meant original third party wii games

hakanakumono

Which there is plenty of if, you know, do some research...

I'm just wondering when people started to buy Nintendo consoles based on 3rd party games...have I been missing something for the last 13 years??

TC, youre OP has spawned such a massive thread that I have not actually read every page, given that would take ages, and the kind of fanboy drivel usually found on System Wars is enough to really turn me off from trying. But I just wanted to add my 2 cents to what you said.

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I think the hatred has less to do with the Wii, but more to do with Nintendo itself. Think about it. When was the last time that Nintendo was actually not hated by game developers and the enthusiast press at large (once nostalgia goggles are taken off)? During the NES days, you had developers complaining about the almost monopoly that Nintendo had on their cartridges. With the SNES, I remember Genesis fanboys being as rabid in their hatred as rival groups are now, plus you had the whole Mortal Kombat issue that begun this kiddy image. You had the infamous Sony / Nintendo split which gave birth to the PS1, and Nintendo was called kiddy in comparison to the expanded market, and the cartridge format was difficult for developers. You had the GameCube which suffered from the same problem. Constant hate through the generations.

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And now you have the Wii. Its hardly surprising that Kiddy / Mature has turned into Casual / Hardcore. Theyre exactly the same type of games developers have always been developing. Its just a continuation. I guess the hatred seems more intense because of the Wii's position as market leader.

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What I think a more interesting question ought to be, is why industry insiders (thats the press and developers) hate the Wii. The public certainly doesnt, it only seems to be this contingent of so called hardcores - its hardly surprising that developers and journalists, themselves from a similar background, have similar predujices.

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I find it astonishing that after 3 years of being market leader, developers still turn a blind eye to the Wii's success, prefering to leak money by funding games for the HD twins, putting B rated trash on the console, then complaining when it doesnt sell. They are refusing to see the audience that has a Wii as untapped potential, a source for revenue, and instead see it as a risk. All because of their well established predujices towards Nintendo. This is something I really dont understand, and I assume (and hope) that the people that make these decisions wont be making them for much longer.

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The Wii is easily the most viable platform for development. As it is now, the control scheme, everything about it, is the biggest waste of resources ever in a generation.

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Sorry to go off on one, TC. I just feel so frustrated by the situation the Wii faces. :D

The Wii sucks because: - It's lowered hardware standards cannot produce the same quality of game as a PS3 or a 360. - The games are generally terrible. Super Mario Galaxy is an exception, but none of the games are anywhere near on par with 360 or PS3 exclusives or multiplats. - This is substantiated by the fact that the Wii has by far the lowest average review score amongst game reviewers. - The controls do no benefit any game. There is nothing that the Wiimote can do that couldn't be done better on a traditional controller. - The online sucks. - The console is way overpriced. TC, you are not allowing any form of discussion because any time people give their reasons for "hating" the Wii, you just say that our "opinion" doesn't count. I hate the Wii because it's screwing up the gaming industry. Companies are now moving into all this casual crap and it's going to severely reduce the quality of gaming. There's always going to be a market for "hardcore gamers" but it's now getting sidelined by this casual movement being created by the Wii. Moreover, Nintendo is better than the Wii. The N64 and the Gamecube were awesome systems that produced awesome games. The Wii is frustrating because it doesn't allow Nintendo's true innovative genius shine through.Stumpt25

Lowered hardware standards? Good. If I see any more companies I like die because of expensive development, Ill be angry. Nintendo saw an option to provide a better, cheaper service for both developers and consumers. Better games were made last generation that could be accomplished on the Wii. Having low standards has nothing to do with it.

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The games are terrible? Conjecture, other than "not on par with 360 and PS3 games". Kind of the same as your first point. The point that the Wii has a lower review average is not the Wii's fault. Nintendo's efforts are generally exceptional, so you cant really HATE a console for that. Besides, as market leader youre bound to attract software that wont be as good as, well, anything.

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The Wiimote can do motion controls and pointer controls better than a traditional controller. Case in point: Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime 3.

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The online is kind of rubbish compared to the systems the others have in place, but as the Wii is a console aimed at local multiplayer, this doesnt bother the vast amount of people that bought one.

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The console is not overpriced. This is a matter of worth. If people deem it to be worth as much as it is, and are willing to pay for it at that price, then the console is worth that amount of money. I dont see a console with Wii like capabilities being sold any cheaper.

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And finally, you hate the Wii because it is "screwing up the games industry". Nintendo are making the same games they have always made. Look at the NES for a proper comparison! To say the Wii is ruining the gaming industry because more people are gaming is ridiculous. Thats like saying the PS1 ruined the game industry.

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The Wii is on par with Nintendo's prior achievements with the N64 and GameCube. Nostalgia has a habit of making droughts seem shorter, and making games seem better.

I think one can expect a console to receive a lot of hate specially in a SW forum... Personally I am not interested in getting a Wii but that doesnt mean there are no games available I'd like to play, just not that much to make me wanna spend money in getting one..

I dont bash the Wii, I am simply not interested in getting one..

I also don't understand a lot of the hate on the Wii because so much of it doesn't make sense.

vdastampede

The Wii is great for gamers in the long run and is a step in the right direction of what this industy needs. It's just amazing how so few people can see that.

vdastampede

I don't even think the system is suitable for males over the age of 10. I would say it is for good males 3-10 and women of all ages.

I dislike the Wii because it seems as though the majority of games are too kiddy with not enough in-depth and mature content, the waggle is a massive turn-off, the visuals are morbidly sub-standard across the vast majority of the platform's titles, the console is paraded around like a gimmicky piece of hardware, which it has amost proved itself to be.

That's why I personally dislike (definitely not hate) the Wii.

[QUOTE="vdastampede"]

I also don't understand a lot of the hate on the Wii because so much of it doesn't make sense.

dc337

The Wii is great for gamers in the long run and is a step in the right direction of what this industy needs. It's just amazing how so few people can see that.

vdastampede

I don't even think the system is suitable for males over the age of 10. I would say it is for good males 3-10 and women of all ages.

This industry could do with a little bit of profit now and again. You would think with HD developers leaking money all over the place, and console manufacturers taking the razor-business-model is a good thing :) What you think is irrelevant. The system is suitable for people of all ages and sexes. Its older Xbox and Playstation fanboys that say otherwise that need to grow up.

To say the Wii is ruining the gaming industry because more people are gaming is ridiculous. eveileb-ekam

This industry could do with a little bit of profit now and again. You would think with HD developers leaking money all over the place, and console manufacturers taking the razor-business-model is a good thing :) What you think is irrelevant. The system is suitable for people of all ages and sexes. Its older Xbox and Playstation fanboys that say otherwise that need to grow up.eveileb-ekam

[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]To say the Wii is ruining the gaming industry because more people are gaming is ridiculous. dc337

[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]To say the Wii is ruining the gaming industry because more people are gaming is ridiculous. dc337

Game companies do have limited resources, yes. Funnily enough those limited resources are being spent up on HD development that, if the game bombs, proves a waste of everybody's time and effort.

Shovelware, on the hole, doesnt sell. Sometimes a game gets lucky. When developers wise up and stop unneccessarily hating Nintendo, when they begin to actually work on their titles and provide experiences akin to the HD twins, then they will start making money. "Making cheap crap for moms to buy at walmart" is a ridiculous over generalisation of the Wiis demographic and audience, and clearly doesnt do any developers, publishers or consumers any good.

Overpriced is being used as a relative term. Relative to the other consoles, it is.

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]The Wii sucks because: - It's lowered hardware standards cannot produce the same quality of game as a PS3 or a 360. - The games are generally terrible. Super Mario Galaxy is an exception, but none of the games are anywhere near on par with 360 or PS3 exclusives or multiplats. - This is substantiated by the fact that the Wii has by far the lowest average review score amongst game reviewers. - The controls do no benefit any game. There is nothing that the Wiimote can do that couldn't be done better on a traditional controller. - The online sucks. - The console is way overpriced. TC, you are not allowing any form of discussion because any time people give their reasons for "hating" the Wii, you just say that our "opinion" doesn't count. I hate the Wii because it's screwing up the gaming industry. Companies are now moving into all this casual crap and it's going to severely reduce the quality of gaming. There's always going to be a market for "hardcore gamers" but it's now getting sidelined by this casual movement being created by the Wii. Moreover, Nintendo is better than the Wii. The N64 and the Gamecube were awesome systems that produced awesome games. The Wii is frustrating because it doesn't allow Nintendo's true innovative genius shine through.RABicle

"Overpriced is being used as a relative term. Relative to the other consoles, it is."

I dont see any other console offering a similar-to-Wii experience for any less money. When that happens, maybe you will see a dent in its popularity. For now, Nintendo have focused on the features that matters, and it has paid off.

I don't see how this has any relation to my post.

"Overpriced is being used as a relative term. Relative to the other consoles, it is."

I dont see any other console offering a similar-to-Wii experience for any less money. When that happens, maybe you will see a dent in its popularity. For now, Nintendo have focused on the features that matters, and it has paid off.

eveileb-ekam

This industry could do with a little bit of profit now and again. You would think with HD developers leaking money all over the place, and console manufacturers taking the razor-business-model is a good thing :) What you think is irrelevant. The system is suitable for people of all ages and sexes. Its older Xbox and Playstation fanboys that say otherwise that need to grow up.

eveileb-ekam

I don't see how this has any relation to my post.

[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]

topgunmv

[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]

This industry could do with a little bit of profit now and again. You would think with HD developers leaking money all over the place, and console manufacturers taking the razor-business-model is a good thing :) What you think is irrelevant. The system is suitable for people of all ages and sexes. Its older Xbox and Playstation fanboys that say otherwise that need to grow up.

dc337

GUYS GUYS! I jsut found out from a reputable source that Kung Fu Panda is the 12th best selling game on Xbox 360 . I NO LONGER LIKE XBOX 360 COZ ONLY SHOVELWARE KIDDY CASUAL MOVIE GAMES SELL ON IT!RABicle

[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]

This industry could do with a little bit of profit now and again. You would think with HD developers leaking money all over the place, and console manufacturers taking the razor-business-model is a good thing :) What you think is irrelevant. The system is suitable for people of all ages and sexes. Its older Xbox and Playstation fanboys that say otherwise that need to grow up.

dc337

But clearly you do have something against profits if you want dont acknowledge the Wii's importance, and instead cry about it ruining the industry.

Well, now you have met one. Its nothing like comparing those two formats. I have had the misfortune to play HD videogames on a really crap SD television. The graphics are only marginally better than the Wii's, nothing like the step up between the N64 and GameCube. And those videos showing Super Mario Galaxy and others emulated at a higher definition prove that the Wii is able to produce good graphics.

The step up between VHS and Blueray is so vast. I would liken it to the difference between DVD and Bluray.

The Xbox Arcade is terrible value for money, and most people know that.

Youre being as predujiced. Its like saying the Xbox 360 is only good for frat boys, and the PS3 is only good for spotty fat nerds.

RABicle, youre the first person to get my username. Have a cookie :)

You wont believe hows its been interpreted over PSN. ;)

There's a difference between intrinsic value and perceived value, people might not be referring to what you want them to be to make your argument better. When people say the wii is overpriced, it is a safe bet they aren't talking about the perceived value.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

I don't see how this has any relation to my post.

[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"] Learn to comprehend? You seem to think that the value of a product is determined by the cost of materials used to make it. Make Believe is simply saying that the Wii is unique enough that it be be priced as it likes and will only drop it's price if the demand drops. [QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="eveileb-ekam"]

This industry could do with a little bit of profit now and again. You would think with HD developers leaking money all over the place, and console manufacturers taking the razor-business-model is a good thing :) What you think is irrelevant. The system is suitable for people of all ages and sexes. Its older Xbox and Playstation fanboys that say otherwise that need to grow up.

RABicle

RABicle, youre the first person to get my username. Have a cookie :)

You wont believe hows its been interpreted over PSN. ;)

eveileb-ekam

[QUOTE="RABicle"] Alright. let's break it down. - It's lowered hardware standards cannot produce the same quality of game as a PS3 or a 360. It didn't lower any standards. it maintained the standards set with the previous generation (Standards the Xbox360 happily maintained until Fight Night Round 3 was released). Judging by your God of War 2 sig, I don't think you minded last gen too much. - The games are generally terrible. Super Mario Galaxy is an exception, but none of the games are anywhere near on par with 360 or PS3 exclusives or multiplats. Ridiculous generalisation. Games are generally terrible? I just glanced to my right and I see I DVD rack full of Wii games, none of which I would consider terrible. And I don't even own Super Mario Galaxy. I'm just going to throw it out there and suggest that you haven't played Boom Blox, Deadly Creatures, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Trauma Center, House of the Dead Overkill, Mario Strikers, de Blob or any other of the Wii's outstanding exclusive titles. - This is substantiated by the fact that the Wii has by far the lowest average review score amongst game reviewers. Completely irrelevant. The PS2 and PSX were hounded by endless **** games that brought down their average review score (as if such a figure mattered in the first place) How about the original Xbox which literally had no above average games other than Halo until Splinter Cell came out? Didn't stop any of those consoles from being great machines with tons of stellar games warranting their purchase. Bad games do not detract from a console, only good games add to it. - The controls do no benefit any game. There is nothing that the Wiimote can do that couldn't be done better on a traditional controller. This is hilarious in it's ignorance. Play Resident Evil 4 on Wii. It thrashes the Gamecube and PS2 versions. Table Tennis in Wii Sports resort, one of 12 minigames, absolutely destroys the archaic Rockstar Table Tennis game on the hardware focused consoles. Shooters are still finding their feet on the Wii but games like MOH Heroes 2, Metroid Prime 3 and Conduit show far more promise than the early days of dual analog. - The online sucks. Yeah ok, this is true. - The console is way overpriced. I suggest you stop watching Dragon Ball Z and instead learn some economics. I'd start with the concept of supply and demand. Your infatuation with casual and hardcore demographics is laughable. 'Casual' (no stuff that word, I"m going to use 'uncool' cos that's what you mean isn't it?) games have always been around. Sony did more than anyone to bring games out of a niche and into mainstream culture. Their uncool, mass market vanilla offerings like Singstar, Buzz and, ahem, Gran Turismo are far older than Wii. Admit it, you don't like these uncool games because you liked being better than everyone. You relished the way other people didn't find Doom appealing and God of War too difficult. Gaming made you feel special. So now that your Grandmother has a DS it's like people have hijacked your culture! Nintendo have always made innoffensive products that didn't alienate the audience, now they've finally nailed the input device that doesn't scare people away either.Stumpt25

Hardly ownage. You start off by dismissing the Wii's line up, and cite a bunch of games as setting the bar this generation, even though they do the same things as last generation, with a shinier coat of paint. All of those games are safe bets.

Old movies may look dated, but they are still relevant. Art house films, stylised films, budget films are all made with the same philosophy as the Wii - they take a value that is not associated with Hollywood style crappy story big budget nonsense, and run with it, contrary to what a lot of other people are doing at the time. Therefore, your analogy is tired and weak.

Do you own a PS3 or an Xbox? If so, why do you use them if you can use the PC? Same argument, after all.

Lets not play list wars, especially not one that is accomanpied by arbitrary review scores by a group of journalist enthusiasts that inherently dont like the Wii.

There is no difference. There are enough games on the Wii to offset the shovelware, unless you are unfortunate enough to be forced to play the likes of Ninja Bread Man. But you are not, so the point is moot. The software on the Wii is worth the entry fee.

And why is that? RE4 is a better control scheme, fact. The Wii does something the other two dont. There is a reason why so many people are upset Umbrella / Darkside Chronicles and Dead Space Extraction are on-rails. Nice to try and dig at the Wii owners for a port of an old game, but the fact is that the Wiimote is a superior controller for those types of games.

You clearly havent played Wii Sports Resort if you feel the control is less than a standard controller for table tennis. I would suggest you form your opinion on actual information and experience next time, before starting to pull things out of your ass.

But, clearly, people dont want a "much more advanced" PS3, otherwise they would be buying it. They want the features available on the Wii, and no amount of storming and nerd raging will change that.

The Wii sucks because: - It's lowered hardware standards cannot produce the same quality of game as a PS3 or a 360. - The games are generally terrible. Super Mario Galaxy is an exception, but none of the games are anywhere near on par with 360 or PS3 exclusives or multiplats. - This is substantiated by the fact that the Wii has by far the lowest average review score amongst game reviewers. - The controls do no benefit any game. There is nothing that the Wiimote can do that couldn't be done better on a traditional controller. - The online sucks. - The console is way overpriced. TC, you are not allowing any form of discussion because any time people give their reasons for "hating" the Wii, you just say that our "opinion" doesn't count. I hate the Wii because it's screwing up the gaming industry. Companies are now moving into all this casual crap and it's going to severely reduce the quality of gaming. There's always going to be a market for "hardcore gamers" but it's now getting sidelined by this casual movement being created by the Wii. Moreover, Nintendo is better than the Wii. The N64 and the Gamecube were awesome systems that produced awesome games. The Wii is frustrating because it doesn't allow Nintendo's true innovative genius shine through.Stumpt25

This post is EXACTLY the type of raw hatred ArcticEdge has been talking about the entire time.

Hardly ownage. You start off by dismissing the Wii's line up, and cite a bunch of games as setting the bar this generation, even though they do the same things as last generation, with a shinier coat of paint. All of those games are safe bets.

Old movies may look dated, but they are still relevant. Art house films, stylised films, budget films are all made with the same philosophy as the Wii - they take a value that is not associated with Hollywood style crappy story big budget nonsense, and run with it, contrary to what a lot of other people are doing at the time. Therefore, your analogy is tired and weak.

Do you own a PS3 or an Xbox? If so, why do you use them if you can use the PC? Same argument, after all.

Lets not play list wars, especially not one that is accomanpied by arbitrary review scores by a group of journalist enthusiasts that inherently dont like the Wii.

There is no difference. There are enough games on the Wii to offset the shovelware, unless you are unfortunate enough to be forced to play the likes of Ninja Bread Man. But you are not, so the point is moot. The software on the Wii is worth the entry fee.

And why is that? RE4 is a better control scheme, fact. The Wii does something the other two dont. There is a reason why so many people are upset Umbrella / Darkside Chronicles and Dead Space Extraction are on-rails. Nice to try and dig at the Wii owners for a port of an old game, but the fact is that the Wiimote is a superior controller for those types of games.

You clearly havent played Wii Sports Resort if you feel the control is less than a standard controller for table tennis. I would suggest you form your opinion on actual information and experience next time, before starting to pull things out of your ass.

But, clearly, people dont want a "much more advanced" PS3, otherwise they would be buying it. They want the features available on the Wii, and no amount of storming and nerd raging will change that.

eveileb-ekam

Videogames are not movies and technology does different things for videogames than movies. With movies big budget means more special effects for things like action movies and the like, but with videogames improvements in technology greatly benefit art games as well because greater graphical capabilities mean greater artistic capabilities. And there are stricter technical limitations when it comes to Videogames. Consider the difference between the PS1 and the PS2.

I think you'd be hard pressed to call a game like LBP the equivalent of a "big budget hollywood production"