The GTAIV Kickass Hype/Discussion Thread (56k) - KEEP IT HERE OR BE SUSPENDED!

omg....lol this is the first gta game where the rag doll physics are soo well done....cannot wait :D

Dante2710

Game of The Year confirmed, friends.

Expect it.

Game of The Year confirmed, friends.

Expect it.

Dreams-Visions

NOTHING IS OVER!!! NOTHING! But yeah, it is probably over..

ugh... I want my 360 repaired or something, but I aint paying for it.

So, I will be getting GTA delivered, and then I will be able to look at the box for hours :roll:

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]

omg....lol this is the first gta game where the rag doll physics are soo well done....cannot wait :D

MoldOnHold

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Game of The Year confirmed, friends.

Expect it.

Kahuna_1

NOTHING IS OVER!!! NOTHING! But yeah, it is probably over..

anyone else hoping T2 doesn't sellout to EA?Dreams-Visions

I hope not, but if they touch GTA I am never buying another one. They can advertise under-armour and Nokia Cell phones in their other crappy games.

Game of The Year confirmed, friends.

Expect it.

Dreams-Visions

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]anyone else hoping T2 doesn't sellout to EA?leejohnson7

I hope not, but if they touch GTA I am never buying another one. They can advertise under-armour and Nokia Cell phones in their other crappy games.

Completely agree with both of you.

[QUOTE="Kahuna_1"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Game of The Year confirmed, friends.

Expect it.

Dreams-Visions

NOTHING IS OVER!!! NOTHING! But yeah, it is probably over..

Dreams were gonna need an epic GTA4 GIF, kinda like the SSBB one you got in your sig.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Kahuna_1"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Game of The Year confirmed, friends.

Expect it.

Broman6015

NOTHING IS OVER!!! NOTHING! But yeah, it is probably over..

Dreams were gonna need an epic GTA4 GIF, kinda like the SSBB one you got in your sig.

already in production. :)

GOTY confirmed. I honestly don't see how this game couldn't win after this.The_Game21x

already in production. :)Dreams-Visions

Better one for a flop, just in case :P

QUESTION: To those of you who have played the game, how many buildings can you enter?I_pWnzz_YoU

Three, maybe four.

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]

omg....lol this is the first gta game where the rag doll physics are soo well done....cannot wait :D

MoldOnHold

Funny crash. Can't wait for GTA IV.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]already in production. :)Chaos_HL21

Better one for a flop, just in case :P

anyone else preparing for the inevitable "GTA4 is ovverrated" threads?

anyone else preparing for the inevitable "GTA4 is ovverrated" threads?

Dreams-Visions

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

anyone else preparing for the inevitable "GTA4 is ovverrated" threads?

MoldOnHold

that is what I mean. :)

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]already in production. :)Dreams-Visions

Better one for a flop, just in case :P

anyone else preparing for the inevitable "GTA4 is ovverrated" threads?

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]already in production. :)Dreams-Visions

Better one for a flop, just in case :P

anyone else preparing for the inevitable "GTA4 is ovverrated" threads?

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]

It's not just slightly better graphics though, it's shorter loading times, better frame rate and less pop-in. It's all down to personal preference I guess, but loading times and poor frame rate annoy me (Mass Effect for example) and I find the PS3 controller better for this type of game.

I wouldn't really say the Live community is a big factor for me, there's going to be a ton of people online on the PS3 version as well.

Floppy_Jim

wow, now you're just lying. no review has mentioned anything about framerates - and my mate that got his ps3 version early was complaining about frame issues when lots of stuff is going on, so it appears that isn't just a 360 issue if you aren't totally making things up and can back up your talk.

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/869/869541p5.html

Past GTA titles have had mild-to-serious framerate issues and technical glitches, because the games were trying to do far more than the PlayStation 2 could handle. While GTA IV is pushing the PS3 and 360 to the limit, it also runs amazingly well. Sure, there are framerate hitches here and there and (particularly on 360) there is some texture pop-in, but it actually runs better than I expected. That a game with great AI, an awesome physics engine and a detailed open world runs so well and with such short load times is a technical marvel. For that, I can forgive framerate issues and some noticeable aliasing.

Taken directly from IGN.

do you know how brackets work in sentence context? that 'particularly' 360 bit refers to the pop-up, not the framerate. both have framerate issues AND.. notice the 'and' separating the subject?

i've heard complaints about framerate from both the PS3 and 360 version.

Have you read the last few pages of this thread? You can drop the attitude, I already explained my mistake, no one cares about this anymore.

But it would be good if Cows and Lems can simply agree to enjoy the game, instead of the inevitable "HAHA, Lems! The PS3 version loads 1 second quicker!!!!" and "HAHA, Cows! The Xbox version has 3 extra ploygons!!!!!"

Umm... The 360 version IS the better buy seeing how its getting exclusive content that Ms paid Rockstar MILLIONS for...

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]

It's not just slightly better graphics though, it's shorter loading times, better frame rate and less pop-in. It's all down to personal preference I guess, but loading times and poor frame rate annoy me (Mass Effect for example) and I find the PS3 controller better for this type of game.

I wouldn't really say the Live community is a big factor for me, there's going to be a ton of people online on the PS3 version as well.

krp008

wow, now you're just lying. no review has mentioned anything about framerates - and my mate that got his ps3 version early was complaining about frame issues when lots of stuff is going on, so it appears that isn't just a 360 issue if you aren't totally making things up and can back up your talk.

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/869/869541p5.html

Past GTA titles have had mild-to-serious framerate issues and technical glitches, because the games were trying to do far more than the PlayStation 2 could handle. While GTA IV is pushing the PS3 and 360 to the limit, it also runs amazingly well. Sure, there are framerate hitches here and there and (particularly on 360) there is some texture pop-in, but it actually runs better than I expected. That a game with great AI, an awesome physics engine and a detailed open world runs so well and with such short load times is a technical marvel. For that, I can forgive framerate issues and some noticeable aliasing.

Taken directly from IGN.

do you know how brackets work in sentence context? that 'particularly' 360 bit refers to the pop-up, not the framerate. both have framerate issues AND.. notice the 'and' separating the subject?

i've heard complaints about framerate from both the PS3 and 360 version.

Have you read the last few pages of this thread? You can drop the attitude, I already explained my mistake, no one cares about this anymore.

But it would be good if Cows and Lems can simply agree to enjoy the game, instead of the inevitable "HAHA, Lems! The PS3 version loads 1 second quicker!!!!" and "HAHA, Cows! The Xbox version has 3 extra ploygons!!!!!"

Umm... The 360 version IS the better buy seeing how its getting exclusive content that Ms paid Rockstar MILLIONS for...

thats your opinion, some people would argue that having slightly better load times makes the game better, not all of them ps3 fans, some of those who really want that one second, you say extra content makes the game better on the 360 some will say that better loading time makes the game better, it causes a stale mate, the game is equal on both, live with it

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

anyone else preparing for the inevitable "GTA4 is ovverrated" threads?

MoldOnHold

I has already started. Sheep are attacking Both Ps3 and Xbox 360 with a silly argument.

Insert (X) upcoming game for the Wii - Will sell more than GTAIV (Insert Ps3 versionn, 360 version or both) hahahaha the Wii is stomping the competition.

Thats what we'll see after the review. Mark my words

[QUOTE="krp008"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]

It's not just slightly better graphics though, it's shorter loading times, better frame rate and less pop-in. It's all down to personal preference I guess, but loading times and poor frame rate annoy me (Mass Effect for example) and I find the PS3 controller better for this type of game.

I wouldn't really say the Live community is a big factor for me, there's going to be a ton of people online on the PS3 version as well.

linkin_guy109

wow, now you're just lying. no review has mentioned anything about framerates - and my mate that got his ps3 version early was complaining about frame issues when lots of stuff is going on, so it appears that isn't just a 360 issue if you aren't totally making things up and can back up your talk.

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/869/869541p5.html

Past GTA titles have had mild-to-serious framerate issues and technical glitches, because the games were trying to do far more than the PlayStation 2 could handle. While GTA IV is pushing the PS3 and 360 to the limit, it also runs amazingly well. Sure, there are framerate hitches here and there and (particularly on 360) there is some texture pop-in, but it actually runs better than I expected. That a game with great AI, an awesome physics engine and a detailed open world runs so well and with such short load times is a technical marvel. For that, I can forgive framerate issues and some noticeable aliasing.

Taken directly from IGN.

do you know how brackets work in sentence context? that 'particularly' 360 bit refers to the pop-up, not the framerate. both have framerate issues AND.. notice the 'and' separating the subject?

i've heard complaints about framerate from both the PS3 and 360 version.

Have you read the last few pages of this thread? You can drop the attitude, I already explained my mistake, no one cares about this anymore.

But it would be good if Cows and Lems can simply agree to enjoy the game, instead of the inevitable "HAHA, Lems! The PS3 version loads 1 second quicker!!!!" and "HAHA, Cows! The Xbox version has 3 extra ploygons!!!!!"

Umm... The 360 version IS the better buy seeing how its getting exclusive content that Ms paid Rockstar MILLIONS for...

thats your opinion, some people would argue that having slightly better load times makes the game better, not all of them ps3 fans, some of those who really want that one second, you say extra content makes the game better on the 360 some will say that better loading time makes the game better, it causes a stale mate, the game is equal on both, live with it

Are you REALLY saying the games are equal because one has couple seconds loading and one has hours of more content. I just dont know where to start...

QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! GTA4 better version on PS3 AAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

THE BOTS LOSE!!!!!!!!!! LIKE THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA IGN.COM FOR PROOF AHAHHAHAHAHAH

THE BOTS LOSE...AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XBOX SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!! AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

F&&k 360 and everyone who owns it you dumbass morons.

ScottEFresh

Umm...What?

I can't wait until until this comes out. I'm not sure how the new targeting system will work, I don't want it to get too complicated. Part of the fun of GTA is balls to the wall mayhem. I haven't read much about this game and am going to be surprised by nearly everything. I hope there aren't many missions where you have to drive really crappy, uncontrollable planes to drop pamphlets on people and stuff like that. I don't mind hard, but hard because of really crappy planes and that kinda **** really bothers me. It's not fun at that point.

Perfect 10 or not, there's no way it'll top Vice City. To those who truly get Vice City, nothing will ever top it. Most people played it because you could stomp hookers, do this and that. But the people like me who actually got it, there's so much more to it. The music, the setting, the era, it's something special that can't be duplicated. I wish they'd have made an extension of Vice City because it's by far the most entertaining. Vice City Stories was pretty good, but it suffered because of a boring main character. Why in the hell didn't Rockstar make Lance the lead guy, I'll never know.

[QUOTE="donwoogie"]

Yeh, one of my mates bought the arcade pack and showed it to a bunch of us all happy with himself because it was cheap, then I told him why it was so cheap and why a hard drive was useful, then we all laughed at him. In fact, I still rip into him occasionally for making such a foolish error :P

Dante2710

Nope. He still has it. He Doesn't want to upgrade because the 20GB HDD alone costs about £40 on ebay which he just won't buy simply because 20GB for £40 is too outrageous for him.

It's so sad to see how misinformed people are. They take 1 iota of info & run with it *SMH* People, i own the X360 version, i've played the PS3 version @ my boys house. There really is NO DIFFERENCE! I don't care what all these websites & magazines say....It's their jobs to critique games. Is the average person going to sit 1ft away from their TV to TRY and find differences? If you do, then you're pathetic! Casuals & im sure 90% of the hardcore crowd won't notice 1 sec less of loading, color pallettes, AA & whatever other sad reason you guys are looking to argue about. It's beautiful for a GTA game & the gameplay is awesome! I know im preaching to the choir....The bickering will never stop on SW :roll:E M I N 3 M

ofcourse the game is great on both consoles, but for me less pop-in, less jaggies, less loadtimes, etc. are just a slight increase in immersion. and that's important to me.

Heard the driving was pretty close to driving sims... hope not, cuz I don't play Grand Turismo and games like that!thefjk

i watched some vids and i can safely say that is not the case.... i've never ever seen such loose suspensions.. if you turn, the car almost tips over..:P

I see the Sheep or Hermits are putting up their user scores of 1 to drag the average down, unless there are people who have played GTA4 and think it's abysmal :lol:

[QUOTE="E M I N 3 M"]It's so sad to see how misinformed people are. They take 1 iota of info & run with it *SMH* People, i own the X360 version, i've played the PS3 version @ my boys house. There really is NO DIFFERENCE! I don't care what all these websites & magazines say....It's their jobs to critique games. Is the average person going to sit 1ft away from their TV to TRY and find differences? If you do, then you're pathetic! Casuals & im sure 90% of the hardcore crowd won't notice 1 sec less of loading, color pallettes, AA & whatever other sad reason you guys are looking to argue about. It's beautiful for a GTA game & the gameplay is awesome! I know im preaching to the choir....The bickering will never stop on SW :roll:Always-Honest

ofcourse the game is great on both consoles, but for me less pop-in, less jaggies, less loadtimes, etc. are just a slight increase in immersion. and that's important to me.

I agree. I was holding back to see which version I will get. Since the PS3 version is slightly technically superior I will get that version. I also want to see what Kotaku says about the two versions.

[QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="E M I N 3 M"]It's so sad to see how misinformed people are. They take 1 iota of info & run with it *SMH* People, i own the X360 version, i've played the PS3 version @ my boys house. There really is NO DIFFERENCE! I don't care what all these websites & magazines say....It's their jobs to critique games. Is the average person going to sit 1ft away from their TV to TRY and find differences? If you do, then you're pathetic! Casuals & im sure 90% of the hardcore crowd won't notice 1 sec less of loading, color pallettes, AA & whatever other sad reason you guys are looking to argue about. It's beautiful for a GTA game & the gameplay is awesome! I know im preaching to the choir....The bickering will never stop on SW :roll:TREAL_Since

ofcourse the game is great on both consoles, but for me less pop-in, less jaggies, less loadtimes, etc. are just a slight increase in immersion. and that's important to me.

I agree. I was holding back to see which version I will get. Since the PS3 version is slightly technically superior I will get that version. I also want to see what Kotaku says about the two versions.

I just want to try flying a helicopter with Sixaxis :D

Man I wish there was planes in this so I could Sixaxis fly them! :P

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"][QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="E M I N 3 M"]It's so sad to see how misinformed people are. They take 1 iota of info & run with it *SMH* People, i own the X360 version, i've played the PS3 version @ my boys house. There really is NO DIFFERENCE! I don't care what all these websites & magazines say....It's their jobs to critique games. Is the average person going to sit 1ft away from their TV to TRY and find differences? If you do, then you're pathetic! Casuals & im sure 90% of the hardcore crowd won't notice 1 sec less of loading, color pallettes, AA & whatever other sad reason you guys are looking to argue about. It's beautiful for a GTA game & the gameplay is awesome! I know im preaching to the choir....The bickering will never stop on SW :roll:donwoogie

ofcourse the game is great on both consoles, but for me less pop-in, less jaggies, less loadtimes, etc. are just a slight increase in immersion. and that's important to me.

I agree. I was holding back to see which version I will get. Since the PS3 version is slightly technically superior I will get that version. I also want to see what Kotaku says about the two versions.

I just want to try flying a helicopter with Sixaxis :D

Man I wish there was planes in this so I could Sixaxis fly them! :P

No planes??? Aww man. I didn't want to read too much and spoil anything, but it will still kick butt with out planes.

[QUOTE="krp008"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]

It's not just slightly better graphics though, it's shorter loading times, better frame rate and less pop-in. It's all down to personal preference I guess, but loading times and poor frame rate annoy me (Mass Effect for example) and I find the PS3 controller better for this type of game.

I wouldn't really say the Live community is a big factor for me, there's going to be a ton of people online on the PS3 version as well.

linkin_guy109

wow, now you're just lying. no review has mentioned anything about framerates - and my mate that got his ps3 version early was complaining about frame issues when lots of stuff is going on, so it appears that isn't just a 360 issue if you aren't totally making things up and can back up your talk.

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/869/869541p5.html

Past GTA titles have had mild-to-serious framerate issues and technical glitches, because the games were trying to do far more than the PlayStation 2 could handle. While GTA IV is pushing the PS3 and 360 to the limit, it also runs amazingly well. Sure, there are framerate hitches here and there and (particularly on 360) there is some texture pop-in, but it actually runs better than I expected. That a game with great AI, an awesome physics engine and a detailed open world runs so well and with such short load times is a technical marvel. For that, I can forgive framerate issues and some noticeable aliasing.

Taken directly from IGN.

do you know how brackets work in sentence context? that 'particularly' 360 bit refers to the pop-up, not the framerate. both have framerate issues AND.. notice the 'and' separating the subject?

i've heard complaints about framerate from both the PS3 and 360 version.

Have you read the last few pages of this thread? You can drop the attitude, I already explained my mistake, no one cares about this anymore.

But it would be good if Cows and Lems can simply agree to enjoy the game, instead of the inevitable "HAHA, Lems! The PS3 version loads 1 second quicker!!!!" and "HAHA, Cows! The Xbox version has 3 extra ploygons!!!!!"

Umm... The 360 version IS the better buy seeing how its getting exclusive content that Ms paid Rockstar MILLIONS for...

thats your opinion, some people would argue that having slightly better load times makes the game better, not all of them ps3 fans, some of those who really want that one second, you say extra content makes the game better on the 360 some will say that better loading time makes the game better, it causes a stale mate, the game is equal on both, live with it

I think what you are saying is ridiculious.

You are saying that faster load times ( what are we talking about here? 1 second? Maybe 3 ) somehow can be equivalent to HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of Extra ( and Exclusive ) content. That somehow this is a "stalemate" ?!?!?

There are TWO Exclusive Expansion packs coming out. The first in August and we don't know about the 2nd one. But we do know that the first one will offer up an extra TEN HOURS of Gameplay. So perhaps TWENTY HOURS total when you include the 2nd Exclusive Expansion pack.

These Exclusive Expansion packs have already GUARANTEED that the 360 version is THE Version to Own.

If I didn't buy the 360 version I'd find myself in a horrble predicament. In August I'd be desperately trying to convince myself that I don't want MORE CONTENT for the Game of this Generation. I'd probably find myself trying to convince others that "it sucks" or that it's "too expensive" bla bla bla

But deep down I'd know that I BADLY wanted these expansion packs but CAN'T have them.

I don't want to deal with that scenario at all - I'm buy the REAL version of GTA IV, for the 360.

[QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="E M I N 3 M"]It's so sad to see how misinformed people are. They take 1 iota of info & run with it *SMH* People, i own the X360 version, i've played the PS3 version @ my boys house. There really is NO DIFFERENCE! I don't care what all these websites & magazines say....It's their jobs to critique games. Is the average person going to sit 1ft away from their TV to TRY and find differences? If you do, then you're pathetic! Casuals & im sure 90% of the hardcore crowd won't notice 1 sec less of loading, color pallettes, AA & whatever other sad reason you guys are looking to argue about. It's beautiful for a GTA game & the gameplay is awesome! I know im preaching to the choir....The bickering will never stop on SW :roll:TREAL_Since

ofcourse the game is great on both consoles, but for me less pop-in, less jaggies, less loadtimes, etc. are just a slight increase in immersion. and that's important to me.

I agree. I was holding back to see which version I will get. Since the PS3 version is slightly technically superior I will get that version. I also want to see what Kotaku says about the two versions.

yep. and appearently there are also more framerate hick ups.. now none of these things will ruin the game, but the less of these problems, the more immersive the game will be.. simple. Mass Effect is a good example.. the game could have been a much more immersive experience.. though it was allready great as it is..

I think what you are saying is ridiculious.

You are saying that faster load times ( what are we talking about here? 1 second? Maybe 3 ) somehow can be equivalent to HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of Extra ( and Exclusive ) content. That somehow this is a "stalemate" ?!?!?

There are TWO Exclusive Expansion packs coming out. The first in August and we don't know about the 2nd one. But we do know that the first one will offer up an extra TEN HOURS of Gameplay. So perhaps TWENTY HOURS total when you include the 2nd Exclusive Expansion pack.

These Exclusive Expansion packs have already GUARANTEED that the 360 version is THE Version to Own.

If I didn't buy the 360 version I'd find myself in a horrble predicament. In August I'd be desperately trying to convince myself that I don't want MORE CONTENT for the Game of this Generation. I'd probably find myself trying to convince others that "it sucks" or that it's "too expensive" bla bla bla

But deep down I'd know that I BADLY wanted these expansion packs but CAN'T have them.

I don't want to deal with that scenario at all - I'm buy the REAL version of GTA IV, for the 360.

UpSwing

Having exlcusive content is a plus (if you're willing to pay for it), but I'll be playing Fable 2, NG2, and Too Human by the time it releases. Do you think you will care about the content once you've finished the 90+ mission and have other games to play later this year :? Just a question.

I'm getting the PS3 version. It's not just the load times that are better. There are also less jaggies and no pop-ins. Also, I read that when you turn your character around on the 360 version the framerate drop a bit. These issues don't really hinder the game, but I just want to play the version that is technically superior.

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]

I agree. I was holding back to see which version I will get. Since the PS3 version is slightly technically superior I will get that version. I also want to see what Kotaku says about the two versions.

Always-Honest

yep. and appearently there are also more framerate hick ups.. now none of these things will ruin the game, but the less of these problems, the more immersive the game will be.. simple. Mass Effect is a good example.. the game could have been a much more immersive experience.. though it was allready great as it is..

Yeah. If I had a decent rig I'd re-buy Mass Effect on the PC like I did with Kotor. The smoother framerate made the game even better.

I'm buy the REAL version of GTA IV, for the 360.

UpSwing

now that's a fanboyish statement. the DLC is extra. the game is allready X times the content of other games.

Ofcourse if both version were the same you would be a fool not to buy the 360 version givien the choice. but for some people other aspects are important to. for me it's immersion.. i want the most immersive experience.. and i am convinced that the game will give me enough gameplay even without any DLC. After finishing the single player (25 hours or so) and playing online for days and weeks i think i'll be ready to play another game anyway.

That doesn't mean i DOn't want the DLC.. If it turns out to be must have dlc for me (and if it will not be on PS3 ever), i might even pick up the 360 version second hand just for the dlc :p .

hell i might even buy both anyway.. just to play with different friends :P

[QUOTE="thefjk"]Heard the driving was pretty close to driving sims... hope not, cuz I don't play Grand Turismo and games like that!Always-Honest

i watched some vids and i can safely say that is not the case.... i've never ever seen such loose suspensions.. if you turn, the car almost tips over..:P

I see the Sheep or Hermits are putting up their user scores of 1 to drag the average down, unless there are people who have played GTA4 and think it's abysmal :lol:

SgtWhiskeyjack