The PS4 pro thread...pro.

I understand the argument of optimization, but you can only optimize so much. With limited CPU power, you often have to scale back the scope of the game in order to hit 60fps. That is if the developer actually cares about frame rate. Too many games on console that run like shit.

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa..

If you only knew 10% about PC hardware you would have known that comparing FLOPS between Nvidia and AMD is as useless as comparing them between Intel and AMD.

Comparing the 480 vs the 1070 is not apple to apple regardless of flop count,comparing flops between AMD cards is another 2 cents,i already compare the PS4 vs the xbox one before both came out i say what MS would have to do to match the PS4 frame wise and non of you suckers believe me.

Poster like Stormyjoe use to claim the difference would be from 3 to 5 frames i claim as big as 20 FPS,i also say that to keep frame parity MS would have to drop quality or resolution and just like i predicted it happen.

Getting an estimate on what Scorpio will do is not hard,in fact there is a huge chance Scorpio use a polaris GPU as well,as Vegas is too big for 6TF.

So they may use a refresh 480 just like the R270 is a refresh of the 7870.

So basically you know shit about this,and you make one of the most pathetic comparison ever,since comparing flops between Nvidia and AMD is useless comparing flops between AMD GPU is not,oh and that test i use was using an i7 which Scorpio i am sure will not match or come close to.

I wasnt arguing that they were going with Nvidia, or which was better.

My response was just as i said, that he cant compare GPUs by Terfaflops. That was it.

Not sure why you are going on about which GPU the console will use, i was correcting is misinformation.

Also, being over a year out................the final hardware is NOT chosen. They have AT LEAST 6-9mos from launch to finalize hardware (depending on development process, partners, etc). The final specifications in ANY hardware is not final an entire year out, thats ridiculous on so many levels. Please understand the hardware (and software) markets before you speculate.

I know, ive been doing this for 20 years

You WANT it to be final because it fits your narrative, because it would make you feel secure.

I get it and i dont mind honestly, but pick someone else to BS.

Ill get all because i can and i love new toys, but this fanboyishness is foolish

Again 60 FPS should not be a problem with that CPU.

Yes we can when they are from the same brand.

Bullshit and this also show you know absolutely shit about how consoles are made,if Scorpio is coming next holiday the hardware will be done already or close,at the start of next year that console need to start being manufacture you can't make 3 million units in 6 months.

Yes they are which is why MS say 6TF,they know the GPU that will be use,any change requires additional testing and would probably mean a delay.

The fact that you compare Nvidia flops vs AMD and then claim console are closed 6 or 9 months from launch basically confirm that you learn little in 20 years.

I said 6-9months because i was covering the hardware spectrum, why use the lowest number?

Also, Teraflops is an independent unit of measuring GPU performance lol, there is no Nvidia Flops and AMD Flops.

WTF?

64 player MP on BF4 runs like shit on consoles. Also, games like Project Cars and Assetto Corsa run like shit on console. The Jaguar CPU struggles.

No man the spec are closed the most they can do is add memory or rise or lower clocks,any other change requires re testing,you can't do a console and manufacture millions of it in few months.

Yes there is an every fu**ing one who knows its way around PC knows that comparing flops between different vendors mean shit,because while the flop count can be lower or higher the way the hardware uses that performance is different.

If you didn't know by now that comparing flops between different vendors mean nothing then you learned nothing in those 20 years,is something most PC gamers DO KNOW.

Is like clock speed mean shit as well,a 4ghz CPU from AMD can lick the feet of a Intel one with a much lower clock speed,again the architecture is different and work in a different way.

But when you compare AMD hardware between the same line of GPU there is no doubt about what the outcome would be,i was spot on with the xbox one vs PS4 using that same method.

Scorpio is AMD, PS4 Pro is also AMD.

It's entirely fair to compare their FLOPS unless one of the two AMD cards is from a new magical undiscovered architecture where AMD makes nvidia cards.

Wouldnt this apply to the PS4 Pro a year a go. Meaning the 480 was available (at least to Sony) a year a go.

If that is the case why wouldnt there be something new available to Microsoft now.

I'm a betting man, betting every day. I dont see your description as a dead cert, it dont make sense.

But why did they have to work within a budget? I thought the PS4 Pro was supposed to be like the luxury version of the PS4. I assume they'll still be sold side by side, and if you have a 4K TV you can afford to pay a bit more for the version of the PS4 you want.

@HalcyonScarlet: That was MS's saying that about the Scorpio. Sony never mentioned the PS4Pro being an expensive item. I think they wanted to keep it under $400 while losing little to no money.

I'm saying, why though? If they are selling both versions of the PS4 side by side, they could afford to sell the PS4 Pro a little more expensive with all the bells and whistles right? Didn't have to be too tight a budget.

@HalcyonScarlet: Yes, $450 to $500 would have still been acceptable.

No one is saying that there can't be anything new available,in fact there are stronger GPU than scorpio from AMD already out,the problem is that 1 year and 2 months from launch that hardware is final and being tested,what can change are clock speeds,and memory if they are not using the highest density already,which is what allowed sony to double memory on PS4 to 4GB to 8GB when they were 1 year away from launch.

How did that work for the PS3.?

So a year ago, the PS4 Pro had its GPU confirmed as 480x and it was in testing?

Yet we knew nothing about it?

hmm interesting.

d

So its fair to say there could well be another GPU thats available to partners now that is unknown by the public.

What I believe is

If Polaris is in the PS4 Pro and it started testing a year ago and we didnt know about polairs then.

The scorpio is could well have a GPU that is being tested now that we dont know about.

Its the same principle applied to both consoles.

Thats not what the slide shows on there road map. If anything it points to Vegas release early 2017

http://www.redgamingtech.com/amd-roadmap-hints-hbm2-vega-coming-in-2017-polaris-uses-hbm1-gddr5-ram/

AMD is expected to launch their next-generation Vega 10 GPU in the first half of 2017

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-vega-10-gpu-launch-rumor-2017/#ixzz4K36mOXf8

I dont think you get my point.

The Polaris 10 480x was released between Jan - Jun 30 this year, yet the PS4 Pro comes out November with a polaris solution.

The vega is out between Jan - Jun next year, so why cant the Scropio have the Vega?

In both cases Sony/Microsoft would have known about the polaris/vega, way before the public did and would have had time to test/modify for their setup.

How can it apply for PS4 pro but not for Scropio. Its exactly the same time frames for both.

PS3 was the main Playstation unit selling at the time. They needed high optimum sales.

With the PS4 Pro they balance that with a middle ground, as they'll still have the PS4 Slim selling at the same time. So they don't have to be that aggressive off the bat with the cost like they were with the Original PS4.

If for example, there was a cheaper version of the Xbox One as well at launch, it would have been okay to have the more expensive one like they had I think.

I'd be happy with that choice. If I want the high tech luxury version, than it's on me to pay the extra, and if I don't, the PS4 Slim is always there.

Yep or you think AMD develop Polaris over a 3 month period.?

The RX480 has been out for months now,the Pro is not even out,so year 1 year ago that hardware was on lock.

We knew about it we just didn't know what GPU was inside and many didn't believe the first indication.

http://www.geek.com/games/sony-says-releasing-a-more-powerful-ps4-is-possible-1638123/

The indications ^^ were there we just didn't listen.

Yes the problem is that fallowing AMD moves from 2011 and up show that after the first like the subsequent line wasn't really new,it was a refresh,so probably MS has a refresh RX480,much like sony got a Refresh 7870 in the form of the R270,it is like this because the 7870 lack AMD true audio, but the R270 has it.

Since it is a refresh instead of being 5.83 like the RX480,it is 6TF but don't expect huge boost from one to the other as that didn't happen with the other refresh either.

But we do know what comes after polaris it is Vegas and it is much to big for Scorpio 64CU and there hasn't been announce a smaller one yet.

That doesn't mean a smaller one could not be in the making but is highly unlikely since the stronger one is the one to release first.

I think Scorpio will have a polaris 10 or refresh anything other than that is a wasted,using Vega to water it down to 6TF when you have a 5.83 stock is not a smart move,in special because Vega will cost MS more than Polaris 10,only to have it water down to polaris 10 specs it makes zero sense.

Also considering how big was the xbox one case i say if Scorpio has that size with an external PSU as well,i am sure it can run a full polaris 10 not water down.

Also i have quoted Phil Spencer referring to Scorpio as a 6TF machine rather than a 6TF GPU,which is also a troublesome wording as MS as done that before,also non of you should feel taken of anything because if in deed the complete system is 6TF and not just the GPU that make zero difference as 170Gflops will not make 3 frames of difference in 5.83 vs 6TF.

From reddit, this made me chuckle!

@tormentos: DigitalFoundry sources say it's Vega, same sources that gave PS4 Pro specs. ArsTechnica also confirm. You can google or I'll link when I'm home in about an hour

There were 2 versions of the PS3 at launch 1 was $50 more than a 360 with xbox live which would not have break any bank.

No DF assumed is Vega,the PS4 information was leak to several sources as well as DF,Scorpio documents haven't leak Vega is 64CU why the fu** would MS buy a more expensive GPU to gimped down to 6TF when they already can have a 5.83TF one cheaper,do you also realise that by next year Vega will be way more expensive than Polaris 10.?

Arstechnica really.?

As powerful as the Project Scorpio hardware is, 4K is an ambitious goal. While we don't know the ins and outs of the actual hardware just yet, Microsoft's E3 showcase gave us enough to make a few educated guesses—and the big one is that native 4K is going to be a stretch, at least without some sacrifices to rendering quality. Compare that 6 teraflops figure to existing graphics cards for the PC, and it doesn't bode well. AMD's R9 390X pushes around 5.9 teraflops, but the card struggles with 4K at 30fps. Even a top-tier R9 Fury X (8.4 teraflops), or an Nvidia GTX 1080 (9 teraflops), just barely scrape by.

A radical redesign to match Scorpio's GPU—which, given what we know about AMD's GPU lineup and the cooling setup in Project Scorpio, is likely to be a down-clocked version of Vega rather than an overlocked Polaris—is pretty much off the table.

Scorpio will have an as yet unspecified 8-core CPU, but given how little time was spent talking about it—not to mention that AMD's new Zen architecture is launching as a high-powered desktop part rather than the laptop chip the consoles use—it's probably Jaguar-based, too.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/xbox-project-scorpio-hardware-specs-can-it-do-4k/

Again they don't know and is not a leak they assume is Vega based on the fact that polaris 10 is 5.83 TF rather than 6TF,but then again they are not taking into consideration MS wording about 6TF machine rather than GPU.

They also assume Scorpio will have a Jaguar CPU again inside which mean problems for scorpio as it will be easier for a jaguar to feed a 4.2TF GPU than a 6TF one,and Jaguars aren't know for being 4ghz just so you know,so probably it would be more or less the same speed of Pro..lol

That is if we take Arstechnica assumption as good.

Not to mention that part of Vega performance gain is because of HBM2 memory which Scorpio i am sure will not have.

Oh, okay. But the PS4 Pro does offer substantially more.

@tormentos you are missing some major points.

Its expected AMD will follow Polaris numbering with a Vega 10 and Vega 11.

Vega 10 maybe 64CU, but Vega 11 is unlikley to be.

460x is 16CU, less than half that of 480x. Polaris 11 combined to 10.

There is plenty of options open to the Scorpio to utilise a Vega architecture. AMD have finished development (in June this year) and passed them to developers. Microsoft had time to obtain a customised version based on Vega.

The refreshes you talk about where listed on AMD roadmaps, there are none for next year or 2018. They are not going to release a refresh when all there efforts (from GPU perspective) was on Polaris and Vega.

Worst case Scorpio uses Polaris thats been out for a year and it will be very competitive.

But I'd put money on it being something else, possibly a cut down Vega 10 or 11.

Microsoft cant afford to look stupid after the actions taken with Xbox One.

They will bring it either on cost or spec with Scorpio.

Dont waste your time. They want it to be Polaris and not Vega so they will ignore all of the evidence.

I just posted the info and let them debate it. The industry is trending Vega with multiple leaks and insider info but they want to believe Polaris because it makes them feel better. Nothing you can really do about that, you'd argue until you were frustrated.

You just invented a Vega line and slap it inside the scorpio,just to serve your purpose.

There is no gain from going Vega because from 6TF Vega to 5.83 polaris the difference would be NOTHING basically,second part of Vega performance is because it uses HMB2 memory which scorpio will not use it is more expensive and even more with the amount that is say to be on scorpio 12GB.

Yes and there is a 470 to going by AMD route it is a given that next year what you will see outside Vega 64CU is a refresh for the RX480,which is why Scorpio can be 6TF easy,there is no freaking difference between 5.83TF and 6TF there really isn't 2 frames the most dude.

So you people are invested in nothing really,is not financially viable to chose a more expensive GPU to water it down,Vega is over 6TF 64 CU,there is no Vega 11,and what you will probably 99% sure will be the RX580 a refresh.

MS has not in any way hinted it is Vega that is some sites assuming and fanboys,6TF on Vega or polaris would be the same as part of Vegas performance is do to HBM2 which the scorpio will not have.

Is incredible you claim Vega other claim Zen CPU 12GB of memory with those specs the console would be $600 minimum it would be dead on arrival and probably suffer from heat issues if it is even possible to pair those together.

Let me reverse this to you.

I am losing my time you lemmings want it to be Vega because you want the biggest possible gap that you can throw on cows face,after a full generation of downplay shitty looking xbox one games with low frames and 720p resolution.

This is also confirmed by Virtualcop thread about MS increasing clock speed,you are royally invested in having the biggest gap possible after 3 solid years of ignoring the xbox one pitfalls and claiming it didn't matter,after a generation of over hyping of graphics disparities like 720p vs 640p on PS3 vs 360.

I already posted the info and some site speculate Vega without a single proof what so ever,since there are no LEAKS is all based on assumptions the same one which claim that Jaguar will be inside Scorpio again.

I game mostly on PC so you can bother someone else with that fanboy BS, i dont have time for it.

Doesnt matter to me either way, i see you will continue to bury your head in the sand. Thats fine, whatever, believe what you want. Soon we will know for sure.

I'm debating getting the pro myself tho it may end up being secondary, Xb1 has been tempting me for awhile now(gonna make a list of games to help justify buying one)

@tormentos

I'm not the one who makes stuff up

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/53032/amds-next-gen-vega-10-11-gpus-spotted-recent-opencl-driver/index.html

http://wccftech.com/amd-vega-10-gpu-launch-rumor-2017/

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/40662-amd-allegedly-pulls-vega-launch-forward

All leaks and rumours at the moment, but thats all we have to go on.

Now you show me anything that states there will be a refresh next year, as its been in previous roadmaps and is not in the one for 2017/18.

@navyguy21 You are totally correct. I probably should just give up trying.

Aparantly AMD have confirmed Vega 10 and 11

"AMD also confirmed that there will be at least two GPUs released under Vega: Vega 10 and Vega 11. This is similar to Polaris, which consists of the Polaris 10 and Polaris 11 GPUs, the latter of which is presumed to be a smaller GPU intended for laptops and mid-range graphics cards."

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/2016/03/amd-gpu-vega-navi-revealed/

A cut down Vega could be very much an option. Rather than have to deal with the heat of clocking a 480x so high, use a customised GPU from the Vega range that runs cooler.

Just came from Best Buy where I feasted my eyes on the 78 inch curved Samsung SUHD TV. Yea, the PS4 Pro needs a HD Blu Ray player indeed.

Looks that good? Isn't that tv like 10k or something? lhaha

Gamespot tries to build a PS4 Pro

Coming out of the PlayStation press briefing, there was a lot of skepticism on whether or not the PS4 Pro would actually be able to handle 4K gaming. If our build is any indication of what the PS4 Pro might run like, then the answer’s yes, it can run games at 4K...kind of. While it will be able to handle lesser-taxing games at 2160p natively, we suspect the more graphically demanding titles will be upscaled.

This has been known for a while. It was in the Digital Foundry vieo where they built one and tested it.

I remember that one. They also got some games to hit 30, but the hardware wasn't exact. Some didn't get there, so I'd imagine that similar games would get upscaled instead.

I'm hearing some BS, that just because a similarly built PC cost a little more, the PS4 is automatically better value...Except the massive minus that literally the ONLY benefit with the Pro is graphics.

While the PC can handle better Physics etc, the PS4 Pro is bound by the lowest common denominator, the PS4. Games aren't allowed to play or perform better than they would on the PS4.

The Vega 10 GPU is rumored to be a smaller chip with up to 4096 Stream Processors and this is the chip that AMD needs in order to compete with Nvidia's new GP104 GPU and Geforce GTX 1080/1070 graphics cards. The Vega 11, is a bigger chip, rumored to come with up to 6144 Stream Processors and compete with Nvidia's future GP100 flagship graphics card.

This is call being fu** owned by your own link.

The link Claim Vega 10 is 4096 stream processors which is THE SMALL ONE.

Vega 11 is say to be 6144 Stream Processors you know what that means rights.?

@tdkmillsy said:

Its expected AMD will follow Polaris numbering with a Vega 10 and Vega 11.

Vega 10 maybe 64CU, but Vega 11 is unlikley to be.

460x is 16CU, less than half that of 480x. Polaris 11 combined to 10.

That this ^^ is totally WRONG.

Vega 11 is 6144 SP which mean it is 96 Compute Units.

Vega 10 is 4096 SP which mean 64 Compute Units.

This ^^ just killed your dreams since in both cases it would be way over 6TF which basically polaris 10 can achieve with 36CU.

Next time read your own links..lol

Not if they go the route PS4/XB1 did and disable CUs.

Read DF report.

Cutting back to 56/60 compute units and down clocking to 800-850mhz gets you where you need to be.

"We know how Sony has achieved its performance target - it is almost certainly utilising the AMD Polaris 10 graphics core, using 36 next-gen GCN compute units clocked at 911MHz. Essentially, it is a downclocked version of the Radeon RX 480 graphics card - AMD's upcoming $199 next-gen GPU, aimed squarely at the mainstream gamer while also offering good, entry-level VR capabilities. We can be fairly sure that this GPU is a cut-down version of a yet-to-be-seen product, quite possibly one with 40 compute units. By leaving a portion of the CUs deactivated, imperfect chips can be used from the production line - it's a tactic used on both PS4 and Xbox One, both of which have two offline CUs on the silicon.

However, based on the differential in spec between Neo and Scorpio, it's unlikely that the new Microsoft console uses Polaris at all. A 40 CU part would need a mighty overclock to hit 6TF, and based on the rendered imagery we've seen, the heating assembly planned for Scorpio looks a little lacklustre. With that in mind, our money is on a downclocked version of AMD's upcoming Vega technology.

Thanks to an AMD engineer rather unwisely posting a partial spec for Vega on his LinkedIn profile (!) we know that the fully enabled processor features 64 compute units. Assuming that this is cut down to 56 CUs (as in the Radeon R9 Fury, a pared back version of the 64 CU Fury X), a clock speed in the 830-850MHz region looks likely. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely, we could be seeing 60 CUs at 800MHz. Both represent a substantial increase over PlayStation 4K Neo, while the raw increase to performance over PS4 and Xbox One is obviously much larger."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-xbox-one-project-scorpio-spec-analysis

Ok let me explain this to you.

The PS4 and XBO disable 2CU,for YIELD purposes not because of heat or problems.

The problem is when you make consoles,and you have a full 7870 inside the console,every single chip make coming out of factory most have 20CU working no less,that mean that if you do 1 million chips all 1 million most have 20CU,but on foundries it doesn't work that way many chips come out with 19CU working,18CU working,so you have a choice you either throw those aways and pay more for the ones you get with 20CU or you disable 2CU by default,and every chip with 20,19 or 18 CU can be use on your console,not only that increase factory output which on launch is essential,but also reduce cost and help around holiday rush.

You can't use a Vega Chip with 64CU and disable 10 CU,60CU at 800mhz will produce more than 6TF of performance worse,Vega is more efficient than Fury GCN.

The 390X has 44CU at 1050mhz and has 5.9TF,yet the RX480 has 8 CU less 36,and at 1266mhz is 5.83TF with 8 CU less.

Vega 64CU will probably be 8 or 9 TF which is way abode Scorpio to downclock it.

Second WHY CHOSE VEGA? Vega will cost MS MORE THAN A POLARIS REFRESH.

Man Polarist 10 is basically 6TF without trying,a refresh can be even more,and by next year it would be very cheap,again 6TF Vega vs 6TF Polaris will not change much if anything when part of Vega performance is based on faster HBM2 which SCORPIO WILL NOT HAVE.

Ok guy