The Wii isn't what it promised to be.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...Jandurin

I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.

I mean, I could say that it's someone's opinion that the PC is an overpriced piece of trash that only plays games that require only time but no skill. And that this person believes thePC needs to be upgraded for each individual game, gives you carpal tunnel immediately, and precludes the ability to relax on a couch due to the enormous size of these PCs, but neither hypothetical man nor myself would be right.

The problem with your argument is that some of these opinions can be proven wrong by facts

Do you have to upgrade your PC for each individual game? No, and this can be shown by simply running a game on a PC with which you just played an older game on.

Does carpal tunnel begin immediately when playing PC games? No, I'm sure there has been studies that show the lengh of time and duration of use needed to acquire carpal tunnel.

However the fact the someone prefers the standard controller and not the Wii-mote and therefore has more fun with a standard controller can not be disproven by fact. It is solely someones opinion. Reviews can not be used to disprove this either (as some people have suggested in this thread) because you can not disprove an opinion with another opinion.

[QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...Vandalvideo

Is that the only arguement you can come up with?

scores mean nothing :roll:

[QUOTE="WINDWAKER1"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...gamespot813

that is true, everyone has an opinion and some may perfer the standard controller more than the wiimote, but some people would have more fun with the wiimote, everyone's preferences are different, so people stop trying to always say the wiimote always enhances gaming, for the majority of people it does, but there are always a few who disagree

i think though that the majority of people around the world prefer playing with the wii remote than the standard controller. it's just more engaging.

Exactly, but my point is that its not worth trying to prove to a few people on the internet that it is, because there will always be a few that disagree

[QUOTE="Jandurin"] Your hypothetical is out of place. Stop arguingfor non-existent person #1. Stop saying that because he may or may not enjoy the Wii remote, his opinion outweighs the reviewer. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not that I don't get it, it's that I think it's wrong. I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.Vandalvideo

I hope you realize what your stating is the same as "I like smelling poo, it's easier to breathe inthan air"...

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...-The-G-Man-

Is that the only arguement you can come up with?

[QUOTE="Jandurin"] Your hypothetical is out of place. Stop arguingfor non-existent person #1. Stop saying that because he may or may not enjoy the Wii remote, his opinion outweighs the reviewer. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not that I don't get it, it's that I think it's wrong. I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.Vandalvideo

But, don't people already know this? Why must you continually beat obvious truths into debates? It derails the continuity of the discussion. I suppose that's the point. Just to add confusion to the melee. But, like I said before, it smacks of an internet form of violence. Last refuge and all that.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] Your hypothetical is out of place. Stop arguingfor non-existent person #1. Stop saying that because he may or may not enjoy the Wii remote, his opinion outweighs the reviewer. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not that I don't get it, it's that I think it's wrong. I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.Eponique

I hope you realize what your stating is the same as "I like smelling poo, it's easier to breathe inthan air"...

[QUOTE="-The-G-Man-"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...Vandalvideo

Is that the only arguement you can come up with?

But you're doing the same exact thing, just the other way around. You're acting like just because you have more fun with a standard controller the Wii remote won't be as much or morefun to anybody else.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...MikeE21286

I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.

I mean, I could say that it's someone's opinion that the PC is an overpriced piece of trash that only plays games that require only time but no skill. And that this person believes thePC needs to be upgraded for each individual game, gives you carpal tunnel immediately, and precludes the ability to relax on a couch due to the enormous size of these PCs, but neither hypothetical man nor myself would be right.

The problem with your argument is that some of these opinions can be proven wrong by facts

Do you have to upgrade your PC for each individual game? No, and this can be shown by simply running a game on a PC with which you just played an older game on.

Does carpal tunnel begin immediately when playing PC games? No, I'm sure there has been studies that show the lengh of time and duration of use needed to acquire carpal tunnel.

However the fact the someone prefers the standard controller and not the Wii-mote and therefore has more fun with a standard controller can not be disproven by fact. It is solely someones opinion. Reviews can not be used to disprove this either (as some people have suggested in this thread) because you can not disprove an opinion with another opinion.

The problem with your argument is that some of these opinions can be proven wrong by facts

Do you have to upgrade your PC for each individual game? No, and this can be shown by simply running a game on a PC with which you just played an older game on.

Does carpal tunnel begin immediately when playing PC games? No, I'm sure there has been studies that show the lengh of time and duration of use needed to acquire carpal tunnel.

However the fact the someone prefers the standard controller and not the Wii-mote and therefore has more fun with a standard controller can not be disproven by fact. It is solely someones opinion. Reviews can not be used to disprove this either (as some people have suggested in this thread) because you can not disprove an opinion with another opinion.

MikeE21286

He's much better at it than me. I was just trying to show him how his arguments looked to me. 1 man's opinion can outweigh a world of opinion, sure, but I'd prefer if that man who had that opinion was arguing with me, not Vandalvideo arguing in his stead without even knowing him himself.

Either way, Vandal does win in terms of his opinion battle. There's no way to disprove it. He may as well link to it in his sig to a blog so that people know what he's going to say.

I find you are in command of the logical sense of view on this but.. they will never ever say so - game on ! ;)SecretPolice

I readily agreed that my arguments weren't as well put as Vandals. Just that they were both wrong imo. His not because they could be disputed by fact, but because they were unnecessary. It's like: We can't say pepperoni pizza is good because there's some guy in Florida that hates pepperoni and prefers mushrooms. Or cheese. Pointless.

[QUOTE="Eponique"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] Your hypothetical is out of place. Stop arguingfor non-existent person #1. Stop saying that because he may or may not enjoy the Wii remote, his opinion outweighs the reviewer. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not that I don't get it, it's that I think it's wrong. I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.Vandalvideo

I hope you realize what your stating is the same as "I like smelling poo, it's easier to breathe inthan air"...

Yes, there are that tiny fraction that always thinksusing the Wiimote is bad and standard controller is better for games like Trauma Centre... but samegoes forpoo. ^^

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] Your hypothetical is out of place. Stop arguingfor non-existent person #1. Stop saying that because he may or may not enjoy the Wii remote, his opinion outweighs the reviewer. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not that I don't get it, it's that I think it's wrong. I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.Jandurin

But, don't people already know this? Why must you continually beat obvious truths into debates? It derails the continuity of the discussion. I suppose that's the point. Just to add confusion to the melee. But, like I said before, it smacks of an internet form of violence. Last refuge and all that.

[QUOTE="-The-G-Man-"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...Vandalvideo

Is that the only arguement you can come up with?

Your statement does not put into the fact of what fun really means. i've never seen another human having more fun when they are not as ENGAGED into the activity that they are doing. sure it's all logical to say that some may prefer the normal controller because they are used to it, etc., but having more fun sounds fishy to me.

Only two games take notable advantage of the Wiimote, making the controls seem mildly flawed on other games. When the Wiimote doesn't do it's job, you're left with an underpowered system that has crap online (won't get into online though).

pyoob

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there,

I thought Tony Hawk Downhill Jam was great because of the Wiimote, I expect similar things out of SSX.

I love Trauma Center which would be impossible without the Wiimote pointing abilities, I also loved Elebits which made great use of the Wiimote as a FPS of sorts.

Super Monkey Ball and Excite truck were also more fun that their predecessor/equals on other platforms because of the Wiimote.

So far it's delivered everything I expected it would, and Ithe controlsshould only get better over time as developers get more practice.

Funny LOL you sure dont mind when someone does that supporting the Wii in this same thread ( ouch ) LMAO- yikes man - maybe a little sleep may help ! ;)SecretPolice

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

yes it rebuts that part of his argument thus making the whole argument weaker. does it not? other ppl are rebutting other parts of this argument, for example Eponique didn't get a reply to her post referencing a review that the TC used to back up his point about TP. now if the review is shown also weaken the TC's point then it becomes a much weaker argument. this is how forum debating works. we're not in a vacuum. I don't need to argue points that others have already done. and done well.

SecretPolice

Seems a bit weak to me but if it makes you feel better - you go go lol

Sir it's not just because it was negative that i chose to attack that point. it was because i knew it clearly to be a biased point about re4. he left out any mention that the wiimote works well for the game and does indeed make it bet according to GS. he deliberately didn't used the GS review even though we're on the GS forums and SW accepts only GS as official. I dislike trickery of this sort. and it seems your fine with it as long as it suits you right? ;)

anyway i think i've made my case for wii having the ability to make great games even better (notice i don't make bs claims like it'll make all games more fun). I also think I've made clear that you didn't interpret my intentions or see my points when you attacked my post.

now you're just trying to save a little face with what you precieve as a little jag at me. weak would be the arguements you've made sir.

Your statement does not put into the fact of what fun really means. i've never seen another human having more fun when they are not as ENGAGED into the activity that they are doing. sure it's all logical to say that some may prefer the normal controller because they are used to it, etc., but having more fun sounds fishy to me.gamespot813

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"][QUOTE="NATATO"]

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]There's no point to the Wii if you don't use the Wii-mote. W/o the Wii-mote it's just last generation software.It's funny because you look at SSBB and it's one of the biggest games coming out for the Wii, yet it doesn't use the Wii-mote. I'd be mad if I owned a Wii and that was the case.NATATO

yes it does. It uses all controllers (wii remote side ways, Wii-remote+nunchuck, classic, and GC)

Try again.

Do you use the motion sensing (which is basically what the Wii-Mote is)? No......you try again. The fact that you can use all the controllers (even the GC one lol) is just a complete slap in the face to Wii-owners.

Wait, slap in the face we have a choice to how we want to play? And your making it sound like the Wii-Remote controls won't use motion sensing in SSBB. Even though they havent released how exactly each control works, I'd put 100 bucks on that they will use motion sensing.

there using all of them classic controller, cube controller, wiiremote side ways, and wiiremote and nunchuck as well

.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

yes it rebuts that part of his argument thus making the whole argument weaker. does it not? other ppl are rebutting other parts of this argument, for example Eponique didn't get a reply to her post referencing a review that the TC used to back up his point about TP. now if the review is shown also weaken the TC's point then it becomes a much weaker argument. this is how forum debating works. we're not in a vacuum. I don't need to argue points that others have already done. and done well.

Ontain

Seems a bit weak to me but if it makes you feel better - you go go lol

Sir it's not just because it was negative that i chose to attack that point. it was because i knew it clearly to be a biased point about re4. he left out any mention that the wiimote works well for the game and does indeed make it bet according to GS. he deliberately didn't used the GS review even though we're on the GS forums and SW accepts only GS as official. I dislike trickery of this sort. and it seems your fine with it as long as it suits you right? ;)

anyway i think i've made my case for wii having the ability to make great games even better (notice i don't make bs claims like it'll make all games more fun). I also think I've made clear that you didn't interpret my intentions or see my points when you attacked my post.

now you're just trying to save a little face with what you precieve as a little jag at me. weak would be the arguements you've made sir.

You're words above - quote " anyway I think I've made my case for the Wii to make great games even better " That was basically said by the TC and his beef was that their are so few games out that this can (truthfully ) be said of.

Nice try but you stepped in it and now you're trying to scape it off. ;)

[QUOTE="-The-G-Man-"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...Vandalvideo

Is that the only arguement you can come up with?

I see your point vandal and i agree on an individual level. however one the larger cultural or societal level there can be a consensus on what is better. much like we have with what is right and wrong for different cultures. if we take gaming industry consumers as our population we might be able to see this. however I don't know of any study that was done so i can't claim to know the results. sales is our only measure but as well all know sales is more than just the controller aspect.

but I would say that the mouse when it first came to pc was a close device to the wiimote. I know ppl that didn't want to use it because they liked just using the keyboard. as we've seen the consensus now is that the mouse can be much better for many types of games and other software.

[QUOTE="gamespot813"]Your statement does not put into the fact of what fun really means. i've never seen another human having more fun when they are not as ENGAGED into the activity that they are doing. sure it's all logical to say that some may prefer the normal controller because they are used to it, etc., but having more fun sounds fishy to me.Vandalvideo

Sorry, playing with words is nothing. I'm asking you to imagine it using vision. Only people that would be more engaged by a normal controller are people who are already used to it, or are just too tired (or too lazy) of waving the wii remote around. I simply disagree with you because you said that normal controllers can be more fun... It can be everything else but that.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

yes it rebuts that part of his argument thus making the whole argument weaker. does it not? other ppl are rebutting other parts of this argument, for example Eponique didn't get a reply to her post referencing a review that the TC used to back up his point about TP. now if the review is shown also weaken the TC's point then it becomes a much weaker argument. this is how forum debating works. we're not in a vacuum. I don't need to argue points that others have already done. and done well.

SecretPolice

Seems a bit weak to me but if it makes you feel better - you go go lol

Sir it's not just because it was negative that i chose to attack that point. it was because i knew it clearly to be a biased point about re4. he left out any mention that the wiimote works well for the game and does indeed make it bet according to GS. he deliberately didn't used the GS review even though we're on the GS forums and SW accepts only GS as official. I dislike trickery of this sort. and it seems your fine with it as long as it suits you right? ;)

anyway i think i've made my case for wii having the ability to make great games even better (notice i don't make bs claims like it'll make all games more fun). I also think I've made clear that you didn't interpret my intentions or see my points when you attacked my post.

now you're just trying to save a little face with what you precieve as a little jag at me. weak would be the arguements you've made sir.

You're words above - quote " anyway I think I've made my case for the Wii to make great games even better " That was basically said by the TC and his beef was that their are so few games out that this can (truthfully ) be said of.

Nice try but you stepped in it and now you're trying to scape it off. ;)

once again he doesn't say that. please quote the part where he says this.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="gamespot813"]Your statement does not put into the fact of what fun really means. i've never seen another human having more fun when they are not as ENGAGED into the activity that they are doing. sure it's all logical to say that some may prefer the normal controller because they are used to it, etc., but having more fun sounds fishy to me.gamespot813

Sorry, playing with words is nothing. I'm asking you to imagine it using vision. Only people that would be more engaged by a normal controller are people who are already used to it, or are just too tired (or too lazy) of waving the wii remote around. I simply disagree with you because you said that normal controllers can be more fun... It can be everything else but that.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]Funny LOL you sure dont mind when someone does that supporting the Wii in this same thread ( ouch ) LMAO- yikes man - maybe a little sleep may help ! ;)Jandurin

And as far as I know the faces with the wink are okay and no TOS violation so if thats the best you got - maybe it's time for you to go ;)

Only 2 of the best games on Wii are great because they're on Wii. Let me explain.

WarioWare: Smooth Moves is a very fun game, only possible on the Wii becuase of it's unique gameplay and how it is complemented by intricate motion-sensing (sorry Sixaxis, you couldn't doit you piece of crap) controls. It is great because it is on Wii, and it needs to be. Next up: Wii Sports. Wii Sports is an addicting yet tiny collection of minigames that is great fun because of your ability to swing the Wiimote like a tennis raquet and jab with the Wiimote like a boxer would. It's great fun only on Wii because you can only do it on Wii.

But sorry folks, the fun ends there. Every other great game on the Wii (7.0 or higher) is good simply because it is a fantastic game to begin with. The recently reviewed Resident Evil 4, for instance. A phenomenal game to begin with, reviewed and regarded as a AAA title across the interwebs. Now on the Wii, many reviewers explain how they dislike the fact that there isn't any new Wii specific content and how the new way of playing makes the game easier in a bad way. Some even had quips with the controls, and how they are "more complicated than it sounds [on paper], which saps some of the fun out of it." (EGM 217). Most all reviewers generally bring up the fact that it was GOTY 2005, riding on all of the things that were great in an afore written review (story. atmosphere, etc). This all converges to imply that this game just rocks in general, and no matter what the controls it still kicks ass. You hear that? It doesn't need to be on Wii to be good. I'll look at Zelda: Twilight Princess on Wii for the same reasons. In fact, Gamspot even gave the Gamecube version a better score because the Wii controls felt 'tacked on'. Same statement is applicable to all of the great Wii Virtual Console games.

My conclusion is this: The great majority of good games available on Wii are good not becuase they are on Wii but because they are just good games. You might ask, "Well Gears Of War is possible on the PS3, so why not just say the same for all 360 games?". The answer to such an inquiry is that the one thing that PS3 doesn't have is a service comparable to LIVE. For games that are great exclusivlely on 360, they must be flawlessly intertwined with Xbox LIVE, much like the way it works for Wii: to be exclusively great, the game must be flawlessly symbiotic with the Wiimote (and very few games truly are). What makes a PS3 game exclusively great? I really don't know,someone answer that question for me.Anyway, that's a Lemming's stand, are you in good hands?

pyoob

Right now only the sixaxis makes a game exclusively great on the PS3. However Home and the usage of Blue ray will probably be the biggest factors and advatanges.

so if thats the best you got - maybe it's time for you to go ;)

SecretPolice

This coming from the person who insists others must be tired.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="-The-G-Man-"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Eponique"]Yes it can be done a standard controller... but you gotta be kidding me... just as fun? Have you played it? With a standard controller the game is betteroff being 95% reading...Ontain

Is that the only arguement you can come up with?

I see your point vandal and i agree on an individual level. however one the larger cultural or societal level there can be a consensus on what is better. much like we have with what is right and wrong for different cultures. if we take gaming industry consumers as our population we might be able to see this. however I don't know of any study that was done so i can't claim to know the results. sales is our only measure but as well all know sales is more than just the controller aspect.

but I would say that the mouse when it first came to pc was a close device to the wiimote. I know ppl that didn't want to use it because they liked just using the keyboard. as we've seen the consensus now is that the mouse can be much better for many types of games and other software.

i agree with you. it's almost like it's human nature, or something :P The mouse is a great example for something that anyone can use and that makes interaction with the PC alot easier. No one is calling the mouse a gimmick nowadays.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

yes it rebuts that part of his argument thus making the whole argument weaker. does it not? other ppl are rebutting other parts of this argument, for example Eponique didn't get a reply to her post referencing a review that the TC used to back up his point about TP. now if the review is shown also weaken the TC's point then it becomes a much weaker argument. this is how forum debating works. we're not in a vacuum. I don't need to argue points that others have already done. and done well.

SecretPolice

Seems a bit weak to me but if it makes you feel better - you go go lol

Sir it's not just because it was negative that i chose to attack that point. it was because i knew it clearly to be a biased point about re4. he left out any mention that the wiimote works well for the game and does indeed make it bet according to GS. he deliberately didn't used the GS review even though we're on the GS forums and SW accepts only GS as official. I dislike trickery of this sort. and it seems your fine with it as long as it suits you right? ;)

anyway i think i've made my case for wii having the ability to make great games even better (notice i don't make bs claims like it'll make all games more fun). I also think I've made clear that you didn't interpret my intentions or see my points when you attacked my post.

now you're just trying to save a little face with what you precieve as a little jag at me. weak would be the arguements you've made sir.

You're words above - quote " anyway I think I've made my case for the Wii to make great games even better " That was basically said by the TC and his beef was that their are so few games out that this can (truthfully ) be said of.

Nice try but you stepped in it and now you're trying to scape it off. ;)

STOP WINKING!!!!!

;)

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

yes it rebuts that part of his argument thus making the whole argument weaker. does it not? other ppl are rebutting other parts of this argument, for example Eponique didn't get a reply to her post referencing a review that the TC used to back up his point about TP. now if the review is shown also weaken the TC's point then it becomes a much weaker argument. this is how forum debating works. we're not in a vacuum. I don't need to argue points that others have already done. and done well.

Ontain

Seems a bit weak to me but if it makes you feel better - you go go lol

Sir it's not just because it was negative that i chose to attack that point. it was because i knew it clearly to be a biased point about re4. he left out any mention that the wiimote works well for the game and does indeed make it bet according to GS. he deliberately didn't used the GS review even though we're on the GS forums and SW accepts only GS as official. I dislike trickery of this sort. and it seems your fine with it as long as it suits you right? ;)

anyway i think i've made my case for wii having the ability to make great games even better (notice i don't make bs claims like it'll make all games more fun). I also think I've made clear that you didn't interpret my intentions or see my points when you attacked my post.

now you're just trying to save a little face with what you precieve as a little jag at me. weak would be the arguements you've made sir.

You're words above - quote " anyway I think I've made my case for the Wii to make great games even better " That was basically said by the TC and his beef was that their are so few games out that this can (truthfully ) be said of.

Nice try but you stepped in it and now you're trying to scape it off. ;)

once again he doesn't say that. please quote the part where he says this.

Only 2 of the best games on Wii are great because they're on Wii. Let me explain.

WarioWare: Smooth Moves is a very fun game, only possible on the Wii becuase of it's unique gameplay and how it is complemented by intricate motion-sensing (sorry Sixaxis, you couldn't doit you piece of crap) controls. It is great because it is on Wii, and it needs to be. Next up: Wii Sports. Wii Sports is an addicting yet tiny collection of minigames that is great fun because of your ability to swing the Wiimote like a tennis raquet and jab with the Wiimote like a boxer would. It's great fun only on Wii because you can only do it on Wii.

Read the part slowly when he says " It is GREAT b/c it is on the Wii "

Yikes - you and Janderin must be on something today - may I have some too lol ;)

[QUOTE="gamespot813"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="gamespot813"]Your statement does not put into the fact of what fun really means. i've never seen another human having more fun when they are not as ENGAGED into the activity that they are doing. sure it's all logical to say that some may prefer the normal controller because they are used to it, etc., but having more fun sounds fishy to me.Vandalvideo

Sorry, playing with words is nothing. I'm asking you to imagine it using vision. Only people that would be more engaged by a normal controller are people who are already used to it, or are just too tired (or too lazy) of waving the wii remote around. I simply disagree with you because you said that normal controllers can be more fun... It can be everything else but that.

Prove? You've already made up your mind so I cannot present much to you. You are already familiar with the standard controller and you love it so much that you don't feel more engaged when you play with the Wii remote. While to others who don't play videogames they would have more fun with the remote. The remote is good for hardcore gamers too, since it makes things more realistic by actually "doing it" instead of pressing a button or two and seeing the results.

Only 2 of the best games on Wii are great because they're on Wii. Let me explain.

WarioWare: Smooth Moves is a very fun game, only possible on the Wii becuase of it's unique gameplay and how it is complemented by intricate motion-sensing (sorry Sixaxis, you couldn't doit you piece of crap) controls. It is great because it is on Wii, and it needs to be. Next up: Wii Sports. Wii Sports is an addicting yet tiny collection of minigames that is great fun because of your ability to swing the Wiimote like a tennis raquet and jab with the Wiimote like a boxer would. It's great fun only on Wii because you can only do it on Wii.

But sorry folks, the fun ends there. Every other great game on the Wii (7.0 or higher) is good simply because it is a fantastic game to begin with. The recently reviewed Resident Evil 4, for instance. A phenomenal game to begin with, reviewed and regarded as a AAA title across the interwebs. Now on the Wii, many reviewers explain how they dislike the fact that there isn't any new Wii specific content and how the new way of playing makes the game easier in a bad way. Some even had quips with the controls, and how they are "more complicated than it sounds [on paper], which saps some of the fun out of it." (EGM 217). Most all reviewers generally bring up the fact that it was GOTY 2005, riding on all of the things that were great in an afore written review (story. atmosphere, etc). This all converges to imply that this game just rocks in general, and no matter what the controls it still kicks ass. You hear that? It doesn't need to be on Wii to be good. I'll look at Zelda: Twilight Princess on Wii for the same reasons. In fact, Gamspot even gave the Gamecube version a better score because the Wii controls felt 'tacked on'. Same statement is applicable to all of the great Wii Virtual Console games.

My conclusion is this: The great majority of good games available on Wii are good not becuase they are on Wii but because they are just good games. You might ask, "Well Gears Of War is possible on the PS3, so why not just say the same for all 360 games?". The answer to such an inquiry is that the one thing that PS3 doesn't have is a service comparable to LIVE. For games that are great exclusivlely on 360, they must be flawlessly intertwined with Xbox LIVE, much like the way it works for Wii: to be exclusively great, the game must be flawlessly symbiotic with the Wiimote (and very few games truly are). What makes a PS3 game exclusively great? I really don't know,someone answer that question for me.Anyway, that's a Lemming's stand, are you in good hands?

pyoob

I agree.

So far there a very few games on Wii that are good because of the Wii, and the only ones that are, once again, are simple party style games.

I have yet to see a full deep game experience on Wii that actually benefits because of the Wii controls or really shows off the unique advantages of the Wiimote that would make the experience far superior for being on the Wii than it would be if it were on any other console...

[QUOTE="-The-G-Man-"]Controls are part of a game, are they not?Vandalvideo

[Prove? You've already made up your mind so I cannot present much to you. You are already familiar with the standard controller and you love it so much that you don't feel more engaged when you play with the Wii remote. While to others who don't play videogames they would have more fun with the remote. The remote is good for hardcore gamers too, since it makes things more realistic by actually "doing it" instead of pressing a button or two and seeing the results. gamespot813

You must be tired or on something today - now the name calling too.

And as far as I know the faces with the wink are okay and no TOS violation so if thats the best you got - maybe it's time for you to go ;)

SecretPolice

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

yes it rebuts that part of his argument thus making the whole argument weaker. does it not? other ppl are rebutting other parts of this argument, for example Eponique didn't get a reply to her post referencing a review that the TC used to back up his point about TP. now if the review is shown also weaken the TC's point then it becomes a much weaker argument. this is how forum debating works. we're not in a vacuum. I don't need to argue points that others have already done. and done well.

Eponique

Seems a bit weak to me but if it makes you feel better - you go go lol

Sir it's not just because it was negative that i chose to attack that point. it was because i knew it clearly to be a biased point about re4. he left out any mention that the wiimote works well for the game and does indeed make it bet according to GS. he deliberately didn't used the GS review even though we're on the GS forums and SW accepts only GS as official. I dislike trickery of this sort. and it seems your fine with it as long as it suits you right? ;)

anyway i think i've made my case for wii having the ability to make great games even better (notice i don't make bs claims like it'll make all games more fun). I also think I've made clear that you didn't interpret my intentions or see my points when you attacked my post.

now you're just trying to save a little face with what you precieve as a little jag at me. weak would be the arguements you've made sir.

You're words above - quote " anyway I think I've made my case for the Wii to make great games even better " That was basically said by the TC and his beef was that their are so few games out that this can (truthfully ) be said of.

Nice try but you stepped in it and now you're trying to scape it off. ;)

STOP WINKING!!!!!

;)

You STOP posting ;)

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="-The-G-Man-"]Controls are part of a game, are they not?PopeReal

Prove? gamespot813

still the wii is fun to play.

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

once again he doesn't say that. please quote the part where he says this.

SecretPolice

Only 2 of the best games on Wii are great because they're on Wii. Let me explain.

WarioWare: Smooth Moves is a very fun game, only possible on the Wii becuase of it's unique gameplay and how it is complemented by intricate motion-sensing (sorry Sixaxis, you couldn't doit you piece of crap) controls. It is great because it is on Wii, and it needs to be. Next up: Wii Sports. Wii Sports is an addicting yet tiny collection of minigames that is great fun because of your ability to swing the Wiimote like a tennis raquet and jab with the Wiimote like a boxer would. It's great fun only on Wii because you can only do it on Wii.

Read the part slowly when he says " It is GREAT b/c it is on the Wii "

Yikes - you and Janderin must be on something today - may I have some too lol ;)

:lol: you're self owned for saying I take things out of context when it's you who does it. did you not read the next line. here i'll help you:

"But sorry folks, the fun ends there. "

after which he gets into RE4. and that's what I attacked. Do you see now how my point and his are not the same? good lord please study more.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"] You must be tired or on something today - now the name calling too.

And as far as I know the faces with the wink are okay and no TOS violation so if thats the best you got - maybe it's time for you to go ;)

Jandurin

Now - If asked in a respectful fashion ( curteously - my weak point lol ) then I'm compeled to comply.

NO - Make Me lol ;)

You STOP posting ;)

SecretPolice

My posts areworth arguing with... well at least some of them ;)

It's SW and you above many I would have thought would know that all someone need to do is tell you to STOP doing something and as long as it's legal ( TOS ) the thing you want stoped will continue.

Now - If asked in a respectful fashion ( curteously - my weak point lol ) then I'm compeled to comply.

SecretPolice

[QUOTE="gamespot813"][Prove? You've already made up your mind so I cannot present much to you. You are already familiar with the standard controller and you love it so much that you don't feel more engaged when you play with the Wii remote. While to others who don't play videogames they would have more fun with the remote. The remote is good for hardcore gamers too, since it makes things more realistic by actually "doing it" instead of pressing a button or two and seeing the results. Vandalvideo

i don't know what kind of proof you are looking for... obviously you don't see from my perspective. how about the sales data? the fact that nintendo is expanding the market to not only hardcores but casuals, and non gamers? how about people talking about bringing the wii out during parties because it's more fun than the PS3? Sure, someone may like the standard controller because they are used to it, but it's not necessarily more fun. You don't have any evidence other than your imagination telling you that somewhere there are people who find the standard controller more fun. It's only more fun if you are playing the brand of software you like (on 360 and PS3), and because you are familiar with the controller.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

once again he doesn't say that. please quote the part where he says this.

Ontain

Only 2 of the best games on Wii are great because they're on Wii. Let me explain.

WarioWare: Smooth Moves is a very fun game, only possible on the Wii becuase of it's unique gameplay and how it is complemented by intricate motion-sensing (sorry Sixaxis, you couldn't doit you piece of crap) controls. It is great because it is on Wii, and it needs to be. Next up: Wii Sports. Wii Sports is an addicting yet tiny collection of minigames that is great fun because of your ability to swing the Wiimote like a tennis raquet and jab with the Wiimote like a boxer would. It's great fun only on Wii because you can only do it on Wii.

Read the part slowly when he says " It is GREAT b/c it is on the Wii "

Yikes - you and Janderin must be on something today - may I have some too lol ;)

:lol: you're self owned for saying I take things out of context when it's you who does it. did you not read the next line. here i'll help you:

"But sorry folks, the fun ends there. "

after which he gets into RE4. and that's what I attacked. Do you see now how my point and his are not the same? good lord please study more.

You're words above - quote " anyway I think I've made my case for the Wii to make great games even better " That was basically said by the TC and his beef was that their are so few games out that this can (truthfully ) be said of.

Nice try but you stepped in it and now you're trying to scape it off.

See - now just move on and learn not to try to fool people and just be honest.

i don't know what kind of proof you are looking for... obviously you don't see from my perspective. how about the sales data? the fact that nintendo is expanding the market to not only hardcores but casuals, and non gamers? how about people talking about bringing the wii out during parties because it's more fun than the PS3? Sure, someone may like the standard controller because they are used to it, but it's not necessarily more fun. You don't have any evidence other than your imagination telling you that somewhere there are people who find the standard controller more fun. It's only more fun if you are playing the brand of software you like (on 360 and PS3), and because you are familiar with the controller.gamespot813

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

NO - Make Me lol ;)

You STOP posting ;)

Eponique

My posts areworth arguing with... well at least some of them ;)

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

:lol: you're self owned for saying I take things out of context when it's you who does it. did you not read the next line. here i'll help you:

"But sorry folks, the fun ends there. "

after which he gets into RE4. and that's what I attacked. Do you see now how my point and his are not the same? good lord please study more.

SecretPolice

You're words above - quote " anyway I think I've made my case for the Wii to make great games even better " That was basically said by the TC and his beef was that their are so few games out that this can (truthfully ) be said of.

Nice try but you stepped in it and now you're trying to scape it off.

See - now just move on and learn not to try to fool people and just be honest.

wrong again. you see he said "It's great fun only on Wii because you can only do it on Wii.But sorry folks, the fun ends there." you see that's not what i said was it. did i put a stipulation in my statement? no. please don't enter a debate of become a lawyer. if you can't tell the difference you wouldn't do well.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"] Your hypothetical is out of place. Stop arguingfor non-existent person #1. Stop saying that because he may or may not enjoy the Wii remote, his opinion outweighs the reviewer. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not that I don't get it, it's that I think it's wrong. I can say: Someone may enjoy pushing A repeatedly for every game ever made. And I could be right. But, it wouldn't help the debate. Try to deal with realities. If not SW realities, such as reviews, then at least personal ones.Vandalvideo

On SW it is. Those are the "rules" and at level 34 you know thatlonger than most here. (I'm not saying I agree with said "rules" but on SW, SW reviews are law.)

[QUOTE="gamespot813"]i don't know what kind of proof you are looking for... obviously you don't see from my perspective. how about the sales data? the fact that nintendo is expanding the market to not only hardcores but casuals, and non gamers? how about people talking about bringing the wii out during parties because it's more fun than the PS3? Sure, someone may like the standard controller because they are used to it, but it's not necessarily more fun. You don't have any evidence other than your imagination telling you that somewhere there are people who find the standard controller more fun. It's only more fun if you are playing the brand of software you like (on 360 and PS3), and because you are familiar with the controller.Vandalvideo

If there are such people, they are very rare. So there's no point in trying to defend the standard controller's appeal versus the Wii remote, which is the majority people's preferrence.