This is just sad... (Alan Wake related)

TC, you really think that the developers thought: "Hey we're gonna make this game X-box 360 only, so let's scrap the whole seamless world idea that we have been working for years!" I'm pretty sure this showcase was actually to show the power of the game engine.Supafly1

Too many people have commented that there are sections of Alan Wake that seem fit for an open world game, but seem just a little out of place in its tightly linear release.

It is sad. Alan Wake holds no interest over me anymore.

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]I always love the "original version" looked better theory. Because you know assuming that the original vision was automatically going to be the exceptional game it was going to be on paper is a reasonable thought process. It's remedy and the current Alan Wake plays more to Remedy's strengths. bu bu the linear....who the hell cares? I would love to think the open world games provide a ton of freedom and all that crap, but there always soo poorly paced filled with enough moments of tedium that you almost wish it was a little more linear.FrozenLiquid

And yet you want Bungie to do something different with themselves :P.

That's different. I want them to get away from Halo. FPS games in general because well Halo seemed like obvious upgrade from the marathon formula and such. My other beef is open world games. Too many developers taking a shot at it that have no business doing it. Ubisoft(my favorite to pick on) is a prime example. They clearly do not know how to do an open world game if the original AC, FarCry 2, and Prince of Persia are any indication, and for all the cleanup AC 2 does(and I love the game) it isn't all that up to snuff either just yet.

Other open worlds are better when they are sloppy but relentless in their attempt to be fun(crackdown, just cause 2, and prototype).WHen the serious devs try to be serious with the sandbox ...well they usually find some way to just be repetitive and screw it up. Plus it defeats the purpose of an open world game. They make a giant sandbox, but then make the structure of the game overly linear. It's like they miss the point :P

Personally Alan Wake(the current version) doesn't seem like a tech thing or a Microsoft made them thing. It's a the new and current version fits what they were aiming for thing. I'll take uncreative and good over creative and trash.

jg4xchamp

Fair point, my whipped friend.

Also, I'm playing God of War III right now. What do I look out for in comparison to other hack'n'slashes this gen?

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]

That's different. I want them to get away from Halo. FPS games in general because well Halo seemed like obvious upgrade from the marathon formula and such. My other beef is open world games. Too many developers taking a shot at it that have no business doing it. Ubisoft(my favorite to pick on) is a prime example. They clearly do not know how to do an open world game if the original AC, FarCry 2, and Prince of Persia are any indication, and for all the cleanup AC 2 does(and I love the game) it isn't all that up to snuff either just yet.

Other open worlds are better when they are sloppy but relentless in their attempt to be fun(crackdown, just cause 2, and prototype).WHen the serious devs try to be serious with the sandbox ...well they usually find some way to just be repetitive and screw it up. Plus it defeats the purpose of an open world game. They make a giant sandbox, but then make the structure of the game overly linear. It's like they miss the point :P

Personally Alan Wake(the current version) doesn't seem like a tech thing or a Microsoft made them thing. It's a the new and current version fits what they were aiming for thing. I'll take uncreative and good over creative and trash.

FrozenLiquid

Fair point, my whipped friend.

Also, I'm playing God of War III right now. What do I look out for in comparison to other hack'n'slashes this gen?

I would say best thing to do to actually enjoy it. Not compare it. NG, DMC, and Bayonetta try to be relentless on the action part. God of War tries to break that a bit throws in some puzzle/platforming in here. As for the combat comparrison since you're going to make them. Um it's not as dial up and all out action. It's more learn your enemies pattern and pick the right times to attack. What god of war usually does right is pacing, level design, good set pieces, presentation and stuff like that. Story kind of sucks though.. Kratos is such a vagina it's not even funny.

jg4xchamp

Yeah the presentation's on point, and Kratos has always been the biggest vagina I've never seen a man so testosterone-fuelled he comes out as the world's biggest sissy.

I keep playing on Titan so the action is more engaging.

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]

I would say best thing to do to actually enjoy it. Not compare it. NG, DMC, and Bayonetta try to be relentless on the action part. God of War tries to break that a bit throws in some puzzle/platforming in here. As for the combat comparrison since you're going to make them. Um it's not as dial up and all out action. It's more learn your enemies pattern and pick the right times to attack. What god of war usually does right is pacing, level design, good set pieces, presentation and stuff like that. Story kind of sucks though.. Kratos is such a vagina it's not even funny.

FrozenLiquid

Yeah the presentation's on point, and Kratos has always been the biggest vagina I've never seen a man so testosterone-fuelled he comes out as the world's biggest sissy.

I keep playing on Titan so the action is more engaging.

RIP Alan Wake :(

The 360 has been on a roll this gen ruining what could have been spectacular video games, it's a tragedy tbh imo ofc. :(

Just really shows that crysis was the last true glimpse of what the PC can achive. Its to a point almost upsetting to me since I want to become a level designer or something along those lines in the next few years and something of that scale etc probably just will not be possible. The next consoles wont be that much more powerful I bet. It will be more geared around DD and more of an interactive home systems than a hardcore gaming machine.

Eh ... i was looking at high res screenshots of those old builds the other night on the bonus disc I got with my limited edition Alan Wake, and they don't really look better at all. Anjunaddict

I find it so sad that Alan Wake had so much potential back when it was a PC exclusive. Back when it was an open world game and just looked so much better. I know graphics don't make the game, but they can really add to the immersion. Just take a look at this video from 2006 (yea, that's FOUR years ago) and make sure you watch the end. That four year old version of the game looks (not just in graphics, but also in the fact that it is truely an open world) so much better than the XBox 360 version that has recently come out.

I hope that this will be like the old Far Cry case again. In which the PC got the good version and the consoles got their own version (which sucked). Maybe, just maybe Remedy can still deliver on the original game that was shown to us all those years ago.

[QUOTE="Anjunaddict"]Eh ... i was looking at high res screenshots of those old builds the other night on the bonus disc I got with my limited edition Alan Wake, and they don't really look better at all. N00bTuber

It's actually kinda funny, they were thinking that they would make more money if it was 360 exclusive but by VG Chartz numbers its not looking very good. Would have been soo much better if it was only on PCKevinButlerVP

Ya...am sure people would just buy it and not pirate it :roll:......."looks at MW2 pc version"

[QUOTE="KevinButlerVP"]It's actually kinda funny, they were thinking that they would make more money if it was 360 exclusive but by VG Chartz numbers its not looking very good. Would have been soo much better if it was only on PCSev_the_gamer

Ya...am sure people would just buy it and not pirate it :roll:......."looks at MW2 pc version"

[QUOTE="Sev_the_gamer"]

[QUOTE="KevinButlerVP"]It's actually kinda funny, they were thinking that they would make more money if it was 360 exclusive but by VG Chartz numbers its not looking very good. Would have been soo much better if it was only on PCN00bTuber

Ya...am sure people would just buy it and not pirate it :roll:......."looks at MW2 pc version"

If you mean MW2, then you are very wrong my friend, it has 4,000,000 pirated on the pc, and since xbox live bans you if for copy games...well you get the picture.

And if you mean AW, am sure if it was on PC it would one of the most pirated games :P.

Ya know as spruce said, why look at what a game coudl've been?

Play it for what it is and see if you enjoy it or not.

I don't see why they couldn't have made it sandbox if they wanted to. Did it ever occur to anyone they may have gotten to a point and realised there was too much aimlessness in a sandbox version or as some have suggested just broken up the flow too much.

That's the problem in SWs, too many times, people act like they know how development works and I doubt many have a clue.

TC how can you say an open world version is better without playing it, the concept may not have worked overall in the end. There has been so many times where a really good idea has been scrapped because in practice it didn't work.

Point being we don't know the reasons and its a waste of time making things up.

[QUOTE="karasill"]Everyone has a price. Perhaps Microsoft gave them a VERY good offer for making it a 360 exclusive? In any case, since the game became exclusive it was then limited to 360 hardware (not taking advantage of cutting edge PC hardware like Remedy was pushing for), which I'm assuming sacrifices had to be made and the whole sandbox style gameplay that Remedy envisioned had to be scrapped for technical reasons. This is all speculation of course but I would say this particular scenario is not far fetched.sonicmj1

I don't think this is the case, based on what we know of Remedy, what we know of Microsoft, and what we know of the 360's potential.

Firstly, why would it be impossible for the 360 to do an open-world psychological thriller? Just Cause 2 and Red Dead Redemption have just recently shown that it's possible to create massive, load-free open environments that look good on consoles. What was Alan Wake doing so differently from those games? There's even Deadly Premonition, which managed to execute a similar premise (though it looks much worse than Alan Wake) on a shoestring budget. I don't see why it would have been impossible for Remedy to do what other developers have done on the 360.

Secondly, why are we so reluctant to take Remedy at their word?

The basic vision has stayed the same. When we announced Alan Wake, we announced it as an open world game, and that was a mistake. We're not even shy to say it. Remedy is a humble group of people and we will say it was a mistake. It was a tick-box back then, that was a trend. "Open-world," "free-roaming" and "sandbox" was the way to go. We tried that for about six months, trying to get the pacing right of a thriller in an open world setting. When you have the player turning up to a love scene in a monster truck when they should be showing up in a Cadillac you know something's wrong. You know something is not working.

We were like, "This isn't working. We need to go more linear, control the pacing, and tap into those emotions to get the player's pulse racing. We needed to be able to control the soundscape, we needed to control the environment, the weather, the music, and stuff like that." Remedy Head of Franchise Development Oskari Hakkinen

Given the way the Max Payne games presented themselves, and given what Alan Wake has become, this sort of reasoning seems really logical to me. Remedy has always been a very cinematic developer, very concerned with pacing and framing. Those are the sorts of things that are very difficult to get right in an open world, because players don't have to head towards their next objective with any sort of urgency. Ditching that in order to make the game more thrilling and tightly wound makes an awful lot of sense.

Suspecting that some sort of Microsoft moneyhats are involved, and that Remedy is hushing up the truth, seems to be wishful thinking at best, in my view. There is no way that the original vision of the game still exists, and while Remedy may still port Alan Wake later, that version will not be open world.

I think you pretty much won this thread with that post. Kudos to you!

I'm close to finish Alan Wake, and I can see why Remedy chose a more linea aproach. This is the kind of games you don't see becoming sandbox games.IronBass

I think that's a huge problem these days, devs are too scared to push originality and creativity in games in exchange for more familiar game types that they know will sell well. I was watching the 2006 presentation vids of Alan Wake this morning on PC and what i saw was pretty spectacular, and considering that was back in '06 it makes it even crazier.

I think it is a shame that they had something so great, but they exchanged a push in originality for the big bucks. If we carry on like this gaming is going to become stagnant.

Dev's need to take more chances and prepare themselves for a loss i think. I mean take a look at Crysis. That pushed the boundaries hugely, both graphically, in terms of gameplay and in sandbox elements. It was both praised and shot down by many people, but Crytek have owned up to their mistakes and are working around them to create a more polished experience in Crysis 2. It is a shame that we will most certainly see a drop in the graphical quality, but perhaps that's a good thing.

So all of you who are saying that Alan Wake would have been terrible as a Sand box game, well you will never know, but I think they should have pushed it. But instead they followed the same old formula for horror games, give the people a dark corridor and they are happy, give them freedom and they whine.

Ive said this like 5 times and got called a troll, ill post a link next time, burn in hell remedy you sellouts

The game is amazing already.. not every game has to be open ended sandbox

kozzy1234

[QUOTE="N00bTuber"][QUOTE="Sev_the_gamer"]

Ya...am sure people would just buy it and not pirate it :roll:......."looks at MW2 pc version"

Sev_the_gamer

If you mean MW2, then you are very wrong my friend, it has 4,000,000 pirated on the pc, and since xbox live bans you if for copy games...well you get the picture.

And if you mean AW, am sure if it was on PC it would one of the most pirated games :P.

I don't see why they couldn't have made it sandbox if they wanted to. Did it ever occur to anyone they may have gotten to a point and realised there was too much aimlessness in a sandbox version or as some have suggested just broken up the flow too much.

Darth_DuMas

Ive said this like 5 times and got called a troll, ill post a link next time, burn in hell remedy you sellouts

Ultizer

And you were wrong 5 times.

Telling a company to burn in hell for changing a game to their liking ???

Grow Up. :roll:

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

I don't see why they couldn't have made it sandbox if they wanted to. Did it ever occur to anyone they may have gotten to a point and realised there was too much aimlessness in a sandbox version or as some have suggested just broken up the flow too much.

lhughey

I had to lol at that one.. :lol:

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

da_illest101

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

da_illest101

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

da_illest101

I guess file under....

System Wars:Believe it or Not ? :P

I think that's a huge problem these days, devs are too scared to push originality and creativity in games in exchange for more familiar game types that they know will sell well. I was watching the 2006 presentation vids of Alan Wake this morning on PC and what i saw was pretty spectacular, and considering that was back in '06 it makes it even crazier.

I think it is a shame that they had something so great, but they exchanged a push in originality for the big bucks. If we carry on like this gaming is going to become stagnant.

Dev's need to take more chances and prepare themselves for a loss i think. I mean take a look at Crysis. That pushed the boundaries hugely, both graphically, in terms of gameplay and in sandbox elements. It was both praised and shot down by many people, but Crytek have owned up to their mistakes and are working around them to create a more polished experience in Crysis 2. It is a shame that we will most certainly see a drop in the graphical quality, but perhaps that's a good thing.

So all of you who are saying that Alan Wake would have been terrible as a Sand box game, well you will never know, but I think they should have pushed it. But instead they followed the same old formula for horror games, give the people a dark corridor and they are happy, give them freedom and they whine.

lucfonzy

Great excecution > unproven innovation.

There's no way to know if the old built was good or not. Not everything that sounds good actually ends being good.

The fact is, that Remedy were the ones that actually designed the game. They saw two options, liner or sandbox. They chose linear and the result is Alan Wake being an excellent game.

We could add all the "if"s we want, but that does not change how good AW is, which shows how making it more linear made a lot of sense.

[QUOTE="da_illest101"]

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

SecretPolice

I guess file under....

System Wars:Believe it or Not ? :P

Too bad they had to develop for a gimped console.

Too bad they had to develop for a gimped console.

Locutus_Picard

[QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"]

Too bad they had to develop for a gimped console.

Animal-Mother

That's because devs cannot be arsed to port over the games. Eveyone knows that the PC is the supreme power house, it's certainly not the platform's fault when it comes to bad ports, it is entirely down to the developers being lazy.

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

da_illest101

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"]

Too bad they had to develop for a gimped console.

lucfonzy

That's because devs cannot be arsed to port over the games. Eveyone knows that the PC is the supreme power house, it's certainly not the platform's fault when it comes to bad ports, it is entirely down to the developers being lazy.

That's because PS3 get less development attention/time or ports like Bayonetta. Hit me up when UC2 or KZ2 can be done on the gimped console.

[QUOTE="da_illest101"]

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

N00bTuber

Prove that, please.

That's because PS3 get less development attention/time or ports like Bayonetta. Hit me up when UC2 or KZ2 can be done on the gimped console.

Locutus_Picard

ive looked more into it, microsoft were funding alan wake so they own the IP, not remedys fault after all, sorry i said all those bad things lol, poor remedy.

i enjoyed it tho, best 360 game ive played in a while.

microsoft just dont care do they? ruining this open world master piece to work on their gimped hardware, and to that crysis 2 PC fanboy that says consoles are holding back games this gen, i disagree, PS3 is a graphics powerhouse with 50gb's of storage. 360 is holding everything back, but to be fair, the PS2 held back alot of games aswell. so sony are not always the good guys like they are this gen.

That's because PS3 get less development attention/time or ports like Bayonetta. Hit me up when UC2 or KZ2 can be done on the gimped console.

Locutus_Picard

Consoles aren't "gimped". He's trying to put forward the point that Alan Wake was originally going to be a PC exclusive, the most advanced plaftorm in gaming, but they sacrificed almost everything in order to make some cash on the Xbox, which in comparison to a PC is gimped, because in reality, it is. That's not to say consoles cannot achieve great things, because they can, there's plenty of evidence.

ive looked more into it, microsoft were funding alan wake so they own the IP, not remedys fault after all, sorry i said all those bad things lol, poor remedy.

i enjoyed it tho, best 360 game ive played in a while.

microsoft just dont care do they? ruining this open world master piece to work on their gimped hardware, and to that crysis 2 PC fanboy that says consoles are holding back games this gen, i disagree, PS3 is a graphics powerhouse with 50gb's of storage. 360 is holding everything back, but to be fair, the PS2 held back alot of games aswell. so sony are not always the good guys like they are this gen.

Ultizer

Since you've played Alan Wake as you say, do you mind sharing your gamertag so i can compare our achievments, i'm competitive like that ...

RIP Alan Wake

The 360 has been on a roll this gen ruining what could have been spectacular video games, it's a tragedy tbh imo ofc.

N00bTuber

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

da_illest101

Too bad they had to develop for a gimped console.

Locutus_Picard

No. Stop. Please.

Seriously, what are you doing? You're just going to drop one BS line and abandon the thread? It's as if you read the topic title, raced straight to the "New Post" button, got your 360 bash in, and left satisfied with your job well done. Are you here for a discussion, or are you here for console warrior points?

Because really, I don't see how anyone can look at what Remedy said about why they got rid of the open world, consider what consoles have accomplished graphically with open worlds this generation, and then turn around and say that it was technically impossible for Remedy to do what they were planning to do on the 360. It doesn't make any sense.

I don't want to be all "internet srs bsns" but there's a reason I've generally stopped coming here, and it's because it feels so much like nobody wants to actually talk to each other. This kind of hit and run posting contributes nothing. It's pathetic.

If you believe what you're saying, you could at least follow the OP's example and explain it and respond to people.

Snugenz, I totally beat you in alan wake.
PWNT :P

[QUOTE="N00bTuber"]

[QUOTE="da_illest101"]

that's the 360 for you, holding back everything this gen

sonicmj1

Too bad they had to develop for a gimped console.

Locutus_Picard

No. Stop. Please.

Seriously, what are you doing? You're just going to drop one BS line and abandon the thread? It's as if you read the topic title, raced straight to the "New Post" button, got your 360 bash in, and left satisfied with your job well done. Are you here for a discussion, or are you here for console warrior points?

Because really, I don't see how anyone can look at what Remedy said about why they got rid of the open world, consider what consoles have accomplished graphically with open worlds this generation, and then turn around and say that it was technically impossible for Remedy to do what they were planning to do on the 360. It doesn't make any sense.

I don't want to be all "internet srs bsns" but there's a reason I've generally stopped coming here, and it's because it feels so much like nobody wants to actually talk to each other. This kind of hit and run posting contributes nothing. It's pathetic.

If you believe what you're saying, you could at least follow the OP's example and explain it and respond to people.

It's funny sonic in an interview with this great man (faints due to epic hair doo)

Look at what he had to say

The game was originally announced as having a large open world to explore. Is that still the case?
We did try a more free-roaming approach at one point but decided that's not really the way we wanted to go. We want to deliver a good story and a good thriller and create the best possible rollercoaster ride through the game for the player. So the story is the means that guides the player through the game and through the game world. That being said, this path that the player is on is quite wide at times and all through the game there is a lot for the player to explore, but it's not a free-roaming sandbox.

Snugenz, I totally beat you in alan wake.
PWNT :P

Animal-Mother

haha, I havnt been online on my 360 for a little while *runs away to get moar pintz*

Oh and yeah, i'm alot more "interested" in seeing how Utilizer did with Alan Wake (or any other 360 game for that matter). :P