VALVE says most PC gamers' rigs can't touch next gen consoles, OH NO!

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

By higher end I don't mean people who have 690's, lol. I mean the PC gamers who have PC's that are on-par or a little bit superior to next gen consoles, they are higher end pc gamers when comparing the other part of the steam community that still have PC's on par with current gen consoles. All I'm saying is that for a good 2 or 3 years, the majority of PC gamers will find a similar (or better) experience on next gen consoles in terms of graphics, after that the consoles will be knocked out of the ball park :P.

XVision84

But whey should they spend the amount of money to get a NG console when they could apply that money to their current PC's and have a better experience?  In words they could knock it out of the park right now if they spent the equivalent amount to buying a NG console.

No, you can't knock it out of the park. A PS4 is $400, if you buy a $200 GPU it will be on-par with the PS4 and that's not even taking into account the 192 Gb/s data rate AND the 8GB of GDDR5 RAM. There are lots of perks for next gen consoles that aren't available for anyone expecting to upgrade their PC and spend under $400 to achieve similar performance. This may differ if you already have a high end PC and are spending the $400 to get a 670, but even then you're not knocking the next gen consoles out of the park. The difference between what the PS4 offers and what a 670 can do won't be very different.

This also brings up my previous argument about the majority of PC gamers buying PC's from walmart, bestbuy, futureshop, etc. who tend to overprice PC's. And that's IF said PC gamer even knows how to replace the parts. Most consumers buy new PC's every 5-10 years rather than upgrade parts.

I don't think outofmyass.org is a credible source for statistics and information.

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

[QUOTE="m3Boarder32"] But my console setup is superior to your PC setup, and that bugs you :) Console Gaming > PC GamingSpartan070

really?

I play all my games with "2560x1440, 60fps, max settings, k/m(or any other control schemes), mods, etc" and you with "1280x720(or sub HD) 20-30fps, low settings, controller, no mods, etc".

dat need for self-validation :lol:

[QUOTE="Spartan070"][QUOTE="clyde46"] How so? My PC is better than current consoles and it will be better than next gen, why should I be riled up?iHarlequin

I don't think you've noticed that your complaints are falling on deaf ears here. Most PC gamers I've seen here and on the PC&Mac Games forum already have computers that are well above the average. The advocates of PC gaming are there; not someone who has a shoddy PC but games anyway - he could probably care less about whether PCs are better than consoles or if it's the other way around.

They aren't complaints :P

Still waiting for people to actually read the OP...

"Obviously high-end PCs can annihilate next-gen consoles without even unsheathing their swords.  I know the usual hermit defense team will tear this a new one but I had to, for the lulz..."

:lol:

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

 

I don't think you know what higher end PC gaming is :P. It's certainly not going to be achieved in a USD500 - 600 box of hardware, subsidized or not.

iHarlequin

By higher end I don't mean people who have 690's, lol. I mean the PC gamers who have PC's that are on-par or a little bit superior to next gen consoles, they are higher end pc gamers when comparing the other part of the steam community that still have PC's on par with current gen consoles. All I'm saying is that for a good 2 or 3 years, the majority of PC gamers will find a similar (or better) experience on next gen consoles in terms of graphics, after that the consoles will be knocked out of the ball park :P.

"Speaking of video cards... majority of Steam users are rocking DirectX 11 GPUs. In fact, 64.78% have a DX11 GPU while only 29.4% have a DX10 GPU and only 1.75% have a DX9 GPU. So yeah, majority of Steam users have an equivalent GPU to what's in the Xbox One and PS4. " AKA most PC gamers already have better computers than current generation consoles, not just the higher end. As per the article, which I'm not sure I can agree with on that part, they also have at least equivalent GPUs to the ones in XB1 and PS4.

"Also, sadly, 47.34% of Steam users are only rocking dual-core CPUs with 73.6% favoring Intel and 21.50% maintaining between 2.3 and 2.69ghz processors. This is definitely a step behind the Jaguar architecture in the PS4 and Xbox One. However, at least 44.24% of Steam users are housing quad-core processors in their machines." The dual cores alone are already better than current-generation console CPUs. 44% use quad-core, as opposed to 47% using dual-core. The first percentile tends to decrease while the second increases. Again, already better than current-generation CPUs.

Add to that that most PCs run at true (as in, not upscaled) 1920x1080 resolution, better than current-generation consoles and at the least on-par with next-generation ones. I agree with you, I just think it'll take less time for the majority of the PC gamers to knock consoles out of the ball-park - a year, maybe two.

Well I'm hoping for at least 2 because I want to wait as long as I can before upgrading because of money and because I want my next PC to be a big leap ahead of next gen consoles.

[QUOTE="Spartan070"]

 

dat need for self-validation :lol:

clyde46

Yeah but he's helping my cause :lol:

I did it for teh lulz :lol:

Even typed that in the OP :P

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="menes777"]

But whey should they spend the amount of money to get a NG console when they could apply that money to their current PC's and have a better experience?  In words they could knock it out of the park right now if they spent the equivalent amount to buying a NG console.

iHarlequin

No, you can't knock it out of the park. A PS4 is $400, if you buy a $200 GPU it will be on-par with the PS4 and that's not even taking into account the 192 Gb/s data rate AND the 8GB of GDDR5 RAM. There are lots of perks for next gen consoles that aren't available for anyone expecting to upgrade their PC and spend under $400 to achieve similar performance. This may differ if you already have a high end PC and are spending the $400 to get a 670, but even then you're not knocking the next gen consoles out of the park. The difference between what the PS4 offers and what a 670 can do won't be very different.

This also brings up my previous argument about the majority of PC gamers buying PC's from walmart, bestbuy, futureshop, etc. who tend to overprice PC's. And that's IF said PC gamer even knows how to replace the parts. Most consumers buy new PC's every 5-10 years rather than upgrade parts.

I don't think outofmyass.org is a credible source for statistics and information.

I'm speaking from personal experience. Of every person I have ever known and seen, I know maybe 3 or 4 people who actually exchange PC parts and upgrade like that. Going into retail stores, I see a ton of people going into them and buying overpriced computers while stores that contain shipped PC parts have a lot less.

It's also common sense too, your average consumer who just wants a PC for general use and some fun gaming isn't going to blow money and time on building a good rig. Go around in your neighborhood and ask people if they know about msi or ibuypower, I doubt you'll get many people saying yes.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="Spartan070"]

 

dat need for self-validation :lol:

Spartan070

Yeah but he's helping my cause :lol:

I did it for teh lulz :lol:

Even typed that in the OP :P

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

No, you can't knock it out of the park. A PS4 is $400, if you buy a $200 GPU it will be on-par with the PS4 and that's not even taking into account the 192 Gb/s data rate AND the 8GB of GDDR5 RAM. There are lots of perks for next gen consoles that aren't available for anyone expecting to upgrade their PC and spend under $400 to achieve similar performance. This may differ if you already have a high end PC and are spending the $400 to get a 670, but even then you're not knocking the next gen consoles out of the park. The difference between what the PS4 offers and what a 670 can do won't be very different.

This also brings up my previous argument about the majority of PC gamers buying PC's from walmart, bestbuy, futureshop, etc. who tend to overprice PC's. And that's IF said PC gamer even knows how to replace the parts. Most consumers buy new PC's every 5-10 years rather than upgrade parts.

XVision84

I don't think outofmyass.org is a credible source for statistics and information.

I'm speaking from personal experience. Of every person I have ever known and seen, I know maybe 3 or 4 people who actually exchange PC parts and upgrade like that. Going into retail stores, I see a ton of people going into them and buying overpriced computers while stores that contain shipped PC parts have a lot less.

It's also common sense too, your average consumer who just wants a PC for general use and some fun gaming isn't going to blow money and time on building a good rig. Go around in your neighborhood and ask people if they know about msi or ibuypower, I doubt you'll get many people saying yes.

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

 

I don't think outofmyass.org is a credible source for statistics and information.

clyde46

I'm speaking from personal experience. Of every person I have ever known and seen, I know maybe 3 or 4 people who actually exchange PC parts and upgrade like that. Going into retail stores, I see a ton of people going into them and buying overpriced computers while stores that contain shipped PC parts have a lot less.

It's also common sense too, your average consumer who just wants a PC for general use and some fun gaming isn't going to blow money and time on building a good rig. Go around in your neighborhood and ask people if they know about msi or ibuypower, I doubt you'll get many people saying yes.

yep :).

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="XVision84"]

I'm speaking from personal experience. Of every person I have ever known and seen, I know maybe 3 or 4 people who actually exchange PC parts and upgrade like that. Going into retail stores, I see a ton of people going into them and buying overpriced computers while stores that contain shipped PC parts have a lot less.

It's also common sense too, your average consumer who just wants a PC for general use and some fun gaming isn't going to blow money and time on building a good rig. Go around in your neighborhood and ask people if they know about msi or ibuypower, I doubt you'll get many people saying yes.

XVision84

yep :).

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] So anecdotal evidence then.clyde46

yep :).

I can, people use it all the time. Be honest, do you think that your average consumer that just buys a PC and installs steam is going to spend money on upgrading and switching PC parts from enthusiast stores?

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]Yeah because with this past generation being so long and the Xbox 360 and PS3 holding the bottom line for years, there hasn't been a mandatory reason to upgrade from what gets the job done.treedoor

Pretty much.

I'm still rocking a computer from 4 years ago. I'll upgrade after the next-gen consoles have released, and I assume any serious PC gamer will as well.

And ultimately this is the problem with PC gamers. They believe in this myth that they are the majority. They aren't. The hardcore, "serious" PC gamer is clearly a minority among all PC gamers.

What Valve is saying is that most people who play games on their PC, or who use Steam, do NOT have high-end top of the line rigs. They have cheap or low-end rigs that maybe only meet the bare minimum requirements. And with the big push lately for indie games, I'm sure there are tons of people out there who really don't care if they can run AC4 (or whatever) on maxed out settings. They are happy playing small, indie games or plants vs zombies, or whatever else is out there.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="XVision84"]

yep :).

XVision84

I can, people use it all the time. Be honest, do you think that your average consumer that just buys a PC and installs steam is going to spend money on upgrading and switching PC parts from enthusiast stores?

[QUOTE="Spartan070"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

 

Bascially this is a pathetic attempt to troll PC users. 

clyde46

No it's actually a very successful attempt to rile some feathers, just woke up and the 47% are still up in angst :lol:

[QUOTE="Spartan070"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] Did you not see Gio doing the same? Hypocrite much.clyde46

Yeah but he's helping my cause :lol:

I did it for teh lulz :lol:

Even typed that in the OP :P

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

I didn't say 3 million day one, I said over 3 million in combined sales year one which is very much doable. Also, I thought we were comparing PS4/Xbox One to PC's, not PS3/360. In the case of the next gen consoles, PC gamers would definitely need the 1080p with mods and everything maxed out to have the one up against next gen consoles. I also find it hard to believe that most PC sales do not come from futureshop, bestbuy, walmart, or any such retailers. They're the go-to stores for local technology and tech advice, companies like msi or sites like ibuypower are hardly advertised to the common consumer.

XVision84

So at the end, we have this layout.

5M of PC gamers with High End PC day 1

3M of next gen consolites by the end of the year,

PC wins.

And no, PC doesn´t need the 1080p with mods and everything maxed out in order to compete with consoles.

PC has strong allures besides graphics such as

1) A huge lineup of exclusive this year and the next one

2) Backward compatibility

3) Steam amd Humble Bundle sales

4) Free online

6) Multitasking

7)Most next gen consoles games are free-to-play and indies available on PC

How about that ;)

I'm sure the PS4 and Xbox One will have over 5 million sales combined over the first year, and if not then the sales will keep on increasing at a really fast rate. Either way, for the first 2 or 3 years the next gen consoles will be in line with most of the higher end PC gaming community (with the exception of people with very high end rigs). 

And I don't know why you brought the list up, we're not arguing which one is superior, I'm talking about graphics lol.

And even if consoles had 5 million sales combined over the first year, are you asuming that the number of 5M of PC Gamers with high end PCs will stay static ?

Do you actually assume that AMD, Intel and Nvidia won´t get any profit from PC gamers for over a year ? Not single high-end gpu sold ? Not single high-end CPU sold during 2014 ? So next gen consoles could catch up ? Nvidia and Intel would go out of business, Alienware CEO would shot himself from desperation, Razer´s president would start drinking ? 

I don´t think so.

Probably when next gen consoles sell  5 million units, there will be already some 10M of PC gamers with high end PC, especially taking into account that the games such as Star Citizen and Witcher 3 are released next year.

So by the end of 2014, it will be

5M of next gen consolites vs 10M of next gen PC gamers. 

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="iHarlequin"]

 

I don't think you know what higher end PC gaming is :P. It's certainly not going to be achieved in a USD500 - 600 box of hardware, subsidized or not.

menes777

By higher end I don't mean people who have 690's, lol. I mean the PC gamers who have PC's that are on-par or a little bit superior to next gen consoles, they are higher end pc gamers when comparing the other part of the steam community that still have PC's on par with current gen consoles. All I'm saying is that for a good 2 or 3 years, the majority of PC gamers will find a similar (or better) experience on next gen consoles in terms of graphics, after that the consoles will be knocked out of the ball park :P.

But whey should they spend the amount of money to get a NG console when they could apply that money to their current PC's and have a better experience?  In words they could knock it out of the park right now if they spent the equivalent amount to buying a NG console.

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

So at the end, we have this layout.

5M of PC gamers with High End PC day 1

3M of next gen consolites by the end of the year,

PC wins.

And no, PC doesn´t need the 1080p with mods and everything maxed out in order to compete with consoles.

PC has strong allures besides graphics such as

1) A huge lineup of exclusive this year and the next one

2) Backward compatibility

3) Steam amd Humble Bundle sales

4) Free online

6) Multitasking

7)Most next gen consoles games are free-to-play and indies available on PC

 

How about that ;)

jhonMalcovich

I'm sure the PS4 and Xbox One will have over 5 million sales combined over the first year, and if not then the sales will keep on increasing at a really fast rate. Either way, for the first 2 or 3 years the next gen consoles will be in line with most of the higher end PC gaming community (with the exception of people with very high end rigs). 

And I don't know why you brought the list up, we're not arguing which one is superior, I'm talking about graphics lol.

And even if consoles had 5 million sales combined over the first year, are you asuming that the number of 5M of PC Gamers with high end PCs will stay static ?

Do you actually assume that AMD, Intel and Nvidia won´t get any profit from PC gamers for over a year ? Not single high-end gpu sold ? Not single high-end CPU sold during 2014 ? So next gen consoles could catch up ? Nvidia and Intel would go out of business, Alienware CEO would shot himself from desperation, Razer´s president would start drinking ? 

I don´t think so.

Probably when next gen consoles sell  5 million units, there will be already some 10M of PC gamers with high end PC, especially taking into account that the games such as Star Citizen and Witcher 3 are released next year.

So by the end of 2014, it will be

5M of next gen consolites vs 10M of next gen PC gamers. 

Dude, you're not going to have a sudden burst of millions of PC gamers rushing to get 780's and 670's in 1 year. All I'm saying is that consoles will offer a similar experience to the majority of PC gamers for the first 2 years, that's all.

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

So at the end, we have this layout.

5M of PC gamers with High End PC day 1

3M of next gen consolites by the end of the year,

PC wins.

And no, PC doesn´t need the 1080p with mods and everything maxed out in order to compete with consoles.

PC has strong allures besides graphics such as

1) A huge lineup of exclusive this year and the next one

2) Backward compatibility

3) Steam amd Humble Bundle sales

4) Free online

6) Multitasking

7)Most next gen consoles games are free-to-play and indies available on PC

 

How about that ;)

jhonMalcovich

I'm sure the PS4 and Xbox One will have over 5 million sales combined over the first year, and if not then the sales will keep on increasing at a really fast rate. Either way, for the first 2 or 3 years the next gen consoles will be in line with most of the higher end PC gaming community (with the exception of people with very high end rigs). 

And I don't know why you brought the list up, we're not arguing which one is superior, I'm talking about graphics lol.

And even they had 5 million sales combined over the first year, are you asuming that the number of 5M of PC Gamers with high end PCs will stay static ?

Do you actually assume that AMD, Intel and Nvidia won´t any profit from PC gamer for over a year ? No single high-end gpu sold ? No single high-end CPU sold during 2014 ? So consoles can catch up ? Nvidia and Intel will go out of business, Alienware CEO will shot himself from desperation, Nvidia president will start drinking ? 

I don´t think so.

Probably when next gen consoles sell  5 million units, there will be already some 10M of PC gamers with high end PC, especially taking into account that the games such as Star Citizen and Witcher 3 are released next year.

So by the end of 2014, it will be

5M of next gen consolites vs 10M of next gen PC gamers. 

Dedicated pc gamers will upgrade within the 1st year of these consoles its a guarantee. My Pc as is the only thing that's needs upgraded is gpu wise(GTX 560ti) is only slightly slower then the PS4 gpu and is faster then the X1, and its a mid ranged gpu from 2011. All that most real pc gamers will need to do it upgrade one part or two parts to make your pc's "next gen" ready , and that is still cheaper then buying a new console along with having to pay for MP yearly . You can pick up a 7950 or even a GTX 760 for 250 or less are much more powerful then the these new consoles.

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] Well you can't use it in an argument then. clyde46

I can, people use it all the time. Be honest, do you think that your average consumer that just buys a PC and installs steam is going to spend money on upgrading and switching PC parts from enthusiast stores?

I can attest to this. My first gaming PC was a prebuilt Gateway machine with a Phenom x4 820. I just bought a 550ti and a new PSU, and it ran just about everything quite well. I would have probably continued to use it, but I broke a pin on the old CPU when I removed it to install a new CPU (which didn't work,  **** unupdateable Foxconn BIOS!)

btw, I am just waiting until the new 20nm GPUs before I upgrade. They're gonna be a big improvement! ;)

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]Yeah because with this past generation being so long and the Xbox 360 and PS3 holding the bottom line for years, there hasn't been a mandatory reason to upgrade from what gets the job done.ZIMdoom

Pretty much.

I'm still rocking a computer from 4 years ago. I'll upgrade after the next-gen consoles have released, and I assume any serious PC gamer will as well.

And ultimately this is the problem with PC gamers. They believe in this myth that they are the majority. They aren't. The hardcore, "serious" PC gamer is clearly a minority among all PC gamers.

What Valve is saying is that most people who play games on their PC, or who use Steam, do NOT have high-end top of the line rigs. They have cheap or low-end rigs that maybe only meet the bare minimum requirements. And with the big push lately for indie games, I'm sure there are tons of people out there who really don't care if they can run AC4 (or whatever) on maxed out settings. They are happy playing small, indie games or plants vs zombies, or whatever else is out there.

Can't believe so many people missed the point.

ALL console gamers consoles can't touch next gen consoles.

Also, sadly, 47.34% of Steam users are only rocking dual-core CPUs

Thats probably where it comes from

R3FURBISHED

Currently: 70% of PC Gamers have under 1.5GB of VRAM. 62% have monitors below 1080p Lol gonna be awhile for PC gamers to catch upm3Boarder32

No shit?

I use   acer laptop for playing steams games which has  dual core. I prefer to   keep gaming off  my workstation even though it's powerful by  a longshot.

[QUOTE="m3Boarder32"]Currently: 70% of PC Gamers have under 1.5GB of VRAM. 62% have monitors below 1080p Lol gonna be awhile for PC gamers to catch upmitu123

But teh superior race. :P

[QUOTE="R3FURBISHED"]

Also, sadly, 47.34% of Steam users are only rocking dual-core CPUs

Thats probably where it comes from

mitu123

now question how many is gaming rigs or like me

who has a gaming rig but also has my mother computer/laptop that will only play games in low settings and indie games hooked up to steam?

Currently: 70% of PC Gamers have under 1.5GB of VRAM. 62% have monitors below 1080p Lol gonna be awhile for PC gamers to catch upm3Boarder32

Many pc gamer are not hardcore either, but play small indie game on breaks or lunch. This is why you see the cheap games spike in popularity on steam.Mr-Kutaragi

You need to link your theories, and "evidence" better. 2/10.

Erm so what?

It just shows more evidence that you dont need a high spec rig for PC gaming.

Convince me that I should care about what PCs other poeple have.

I'm confused how this thread is still going, and why people are claiming butthurt over it.

First off, PC gamers (for the longest time) have been saying you don't need a high-spec PC to game on. I personally recommend low-spec to people looking to get into PC gaming all the time.

Second off, it still shows PC gamers have higher-end hardware than console users

Third off, it's a hardware survey that accounts for people who may log in on laptops/secondary PCs that may not be high-end. I know I do.

Fourth off, 0% of console users have a console as powerful as the PS4 or Xbox One atm, so where's the ownage?

Fact: 0% of consolites own a next gen system.

Fact: 0% of consolites own a next gen system.

loco145

[QUOTE="loco145"]

Fact: 0% of consolites own a next gen system.

wiiutroll

[QUOTE="m3Boarder32"]Currently: 70% of PC Gamers have under 1.5GB of VRAM. 62% have monitors below 1080p Lol gonna be awhile for PC gamers to catch upmitu123

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="m3Boarder32"]Currently: 70% of PC Gamers have under 1.5GB of VRAM. 62% have monitors below 1080p Lol gonna be awhile for PC gamers to catch upclyde46

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="R3FURBISHED"]

Also, sadly, 47.34% of Steam users are only rocking dual-core CPUs

Thats probably where it comes from

Cranler

next gen they'll need to change

This is just ridiculous because 90% of Americans have a PC in their homes. Almost everyone has a PC in 1st world countries. Of course not all of them have a Steam account. But it just further increases the chance of more Steam accounts being used. 

Point is.. majority of them are not enthusiast PC gamers. That survey is really almost pointless. 

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="m3Boarder32"]Currently: 70% of PC Gamers have under 1.5GB of VRAM. 62% have monitors below 1080p Lol gonna be awhile for PC gamers to catch upclyde46

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="mitu123"]...That's just pathetic coming from PC gamers.

lowe0

It's true.Only a small percentage of pc gamers have high end rigs,the rest have either shitty laptops or shitty pre builds.

It's true.Only a small percentage of pc gamers have high end rigs,the rest have either shitty laptops or shitty pre builds.

ShepardCommandr