Wait... are you guys serious.... (PS3 installation)

you guys are silly. I'll say it again. One long initial wait is far more acceptable than many small waits. Those small waits happen every time you play and they interupt the gameplay, whereas an initial wait doesn't interupt the game at all.

It was made mandatory in dmc4 because capcom wanted to people to enjoy the game the best way possible. All reviewers are saying that the ps3 version is superior because there aren't any load times while your playing the game. Face it lemmings, this is the gen where you sit there looking at a load screen while your stage is booting up. I've experienced load times before, and while you're playing the game that 30 seconds can feel like 20 minutes

GunSmith1_basic

Capcom did a great job of hiding the loading times. It happens during cutscenes and when opening doors. Not too bad. Would I like no loading times? Sure, but it is not a big deal. Just like installing on the PS3, ATM, is not a big deal.

personally im a bit torn.

first we should recognise a difference between an installation and caching. caching to the HDD means that nothign is installed, the game just copies data to the HDD to optimize loading. its like virtual ram on the PC. once the game has ended, the cache is gone. no HDD space is permanently taken up. both consoles are perfectly capable of caching (though obhiously a HDD has to be present on the 360 to take advantage of it). an installation is when a game absolutely requires certain files to be on the HDD at start time. it will not function unless those files have been installed to the HDD. files remain there even when the game is not being played and they will remain there until the user removes them. i just mention this because some ppl seem to be getting this mixed up. the 360 is perfectly capable of using its HDD to improve loading by caching, as is the PS3. its more of a pain on the 360 because devs need to write to code paths, 1 for 360s with HDDs and 1 for those without but its perfectly possible.

anywho yes installations, in and of themselves, are a good thing. HDDs are so vastly superior to any disc drive technology that it isnt even funny. even the low end HDDs found in both consoles are far superior across the board. they do decrease loading times and offer better performance.

and if sony just put in a cheap DVD drive to save a few bob and asked devs to have installs for games as needed then i dont think there would be much of a problem. PC players have no problems with it as they have huge HDDs and cheap DVD drives so its not a big deal.

the problem (and the bashing as a result) is that the PS3 is the first console that i can recall, that actually needs installs for its games. and this is caused by a very expensive blu-ray drive thats so slow, it cant actually keep up with the demands for games this gen.so it needs HDD assistance in alot of games.

if installs were just an optional feature acorss the board then the bashing would be unwarranted completly. but its the fact that the most expensive console, with the most expensive disc drive, needs an install for many games because said drive cant do its job fast enough.

for me anyway, thats a real kicker.

I'd rather wait the 20 minuts up front and have the better loading times. What now?

The_Crucible

Agreed. No big deal.

[QUOTE="The_Crucible"]

I'd rather wait the 20 minuts up front and have the better loading times. What now?

unasyn

Agreed. No big deal.

Until you run out of space. :P Couldn't resist.

[QUOTE="unasyn"][QUOTE="The_Crucible"]

I'd rather wait the 20 minuts up front and have the better loading times. What now?

dhjohns

Agreed. No big deal.

Until you run out of space. :P Couldn't resist.

That's God's subtle way of telling people they spend too much of their time gaming ;)

you guys are silly. I'll say it again. One long initial wait is far more acceptable than many small waits. Those small waits happen every time you play and they interupt the gameplay, whereas an initial wait doesn't interupt the game at all.

It was made mandatory in dmc4 because capcom wanted to people to enjoy the game the best way possible. All reviewers are saying that the ps3 version is superior because there aren't any load times while your playing the game. Face it lemmings, this is the gen where you sit there looking at a load screen while your stage is booting up. I've experienced load times before, and while you're playing the game that 30 seconds can feel like 20 minutes

GunSmith1_basic

It's funny how people are ignoring the fact that the load times are not eliminated, just shortened and not by all that much.heretrix

Gamespot = noticeable difference (in favor of the PS3)

IGN = 3x difference (in favor of the PS3)

Not by all that much? :roll:

[QUOTE="heretrix"]It's funny how people are ignoring the fact that the load times are not eliminated, just shortened and not by all that much.unasyn

Gamespot = noticeable difference (in favor of the PS3)

IGN = 3x difference (in favor of the PS3)

Not by all that much? :roll:

The people here who are supporting these mandatory installation's are still missing the major problem: space. Even if you bought an 80GB PS3 that's still only 16 5GB games...and that's if your HDD is free of everything else. That means when you buy that 14th or 15th game, you'll have to uninstall one of the other games. What if you want to go back and play it? Well, you have to reinstall it. And what about when you are on your 20th game? That means 5 different games you'd have to reinstall in the future if you want to play them again while 360/Wii owners are just popping their games right in and only having to deal with a loading screen that's about three seconds longer.

And that doesn't even cover the fact that games will probably require larger installations in the future. It's a problem. Optional installation=good. Mandatory installation=very bad.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]It's funny how people are ignoring the fact that the load times are not eliminated, just shortened and not by all that much.unasyn

Gamespot = noticeable difference (in favor of the PS3)

IGN = 3x difference (in favor of the PS3)

Not by all that much? :roll:

That's some REALLY exact info there chum.

The people here who are supporting these mandatory installation's are still missing the major problem: space. Even if you bought an 80GB PS3 that's still only 16 5GB games...and that's if your HDD is free of everything else. That means when you buy that 14th or 15th game, you'll have to uninstall one of the other games. What if you want to go back and play it? Well, you have to reinstall it. And what about when you are on your 20th game? That means 5 different games you'd have to reinstall in the future if you want to play them again while 360/Wii owners are just popping their games right in and only having to deal with a loading screen that's about three seconds longer.

And that doesn't even cover the fact that games will probably require larger installations in the future. It's a problem. Optional installation=good. Mandatory installation=very bad.

TreyoftheDead

[QUOTE="TreyoftheDead"]

The people here who are supporting these mandatory installation's are still missing the major problem: space. Even if you bought an 80GB PS3 that's still only 16 5GB games...and that's if your HDD is free of everything else. That means when you buy that 14th or 15th game, you'll have to uninstall one of the other games. What if you want to go back and play it? Well, you have to reinstall it. And what about when you are on your 20th game? That means 5 different games you'd have to reinstall in the future if you want to play them again while 360/Wii owners are just popping their games right in and only having to deal with a loading screen that's about three seconds longer.

And that doesn't even cover the fact that games will probably require larger installations in the future. It's a problem. Optional installation=good. Mandatory installation=very bad.

GunSmith1_basic

I really hope you are right. ;)

the 360 doesn't even have an optional install. I doubt that mandatory installs will become the norm for every title. A few a year maybeGunSmith1_basic

And, that's the problem. What happens if it becomes the majority? What if they have 20 titles a year that require it? OR 40?

It seems a lot of this flack comes from the 360 camp, trying despirately to reach at straws to control the damage that hasn't even happened yet (and for all we know ... won't.)

0rin

You have three camps:

1) The 360 folk making a huge mountain out of this issue,

2) The PS3 folk making this out to not be a big deal and something we should be thanking Sony for.

3) Those of us who have both or all three

The manditory five gigs is an issue, the fact that the 20 minute install is equal to or greater then the amount of macro loading screens on the 360 version of DMC4 is annoying and my biggest fear comes from the simple reality that the closer to capacity a HDD gets the slower it gets.

I bought a launch 60GB, so I fine...for now.

But two games in one month with a 5 gig manditory install? That is 50% of a 20GB PS3 and 25% of a 40GB PS3.

I know that the Cows are of the mentality that "No one replays games" but I often find myself going back and forth between any number of games on any console.

Hot Shot Golf for PS2 was a staple, I always went back to that to fill a few minutes before heading out or waiting for dinner to cook, the more games that require the manditory install the more I need to pick and choose.

I think back to the N64 era where Golden Eye, Mario Kart, Perfect Dark, and Smash Bros were staples games I would always go back to, but would I have bothered if I needed to wait 20 minutes to install a file because I had not played it in a while and had deleted the install file?

No.

I shouldn't need to delete anything of a HDD unless my gaming Library for that console is nearing 200 games.

Its annoying, its poor planning, and yes it will effect what console I buy mutiplatforms on.

[QUOTE="dhjohns"][QUOTE="unasyn"][QUOTE="The_Crucible"]

I'd rather wait the 20 minuts up front and have the better loading times. What now?

unasyn

Agreed. No big deal.

Until you run out of space. :P Couldn't resist.

That's God's subtle way of telling people they spend too much of their time gaming ;)

Don't do that. I spend way too much time gaming. :P

This is an issue, but not a major one IMO... unless you own a 20 GB sku. The install should have been optional, but this is not a deal-breaker.

[QUOTE="unasyn"]

[QUOTE="heretrix"]It's funny how people are ignoring the fact that the load times are not eliminated, just shortened and not by all that much.heretrix

Gamespot = noticeable difference (in favor of the PS3)

IGN = 3x difference (in favor of the PS3)

Not by all that much? :roll:

That's some REALLY exact info there chum.

All I want to know is this:

Are all the combine macro loading screens for 360 version of DMC4 less then, equal to, or more then 20 minutes?

I think 360 owners are jealous. Bet they wish they could install some of Lost Oddysey to cut down those loads!

:-p

This isn't a major issue. As a owner of a 320 gig PS3, it doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is that people from the pro Sony camp trying to say this is a nonissue when they where bashing the 360's 20 gig for this very problem a few months ago.

The fact is a 5 gig install is a pain in the ass. The fact that you have to do it when there is another version out there that looks and plays exactly the same, with no install is troubling. Not a deal breaker, but still worthy of pause.

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="unasyn"]

[QUOTE="heretrix"]It's funny how people are ignoring the fact that the load times are not eliminated, just shortened and not by all that much.cosmostein77

Gamespot = noticeable difference (in favor of the PS3)

IGN = 3x difference (in favor of the PS3)

Not by all that much? :roll:

That's some REALLY exact info there chum.

All I want to know is this:

Are all the combine macro loading screens for 360 version of DMC4 less then, equal to, or more then 20 minutes?

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="unasyn"]

[QUOTE="heretrix"]It's funny how people are ignoring the fact that the load times are not eliminated, just shortened and not by all that much.cosmostein77

Gamespot = noticeable difference (in favor of the PS3)

IGN = 3x difference (in favor of the PS3)

Not by all that much? :roll:

That's some REALLY exact info there chum.

All I want to know is this:

Are all the combine macro loading screens for 360 version of DMC4 less then, equal to, or more then 20 minutes?

Depends on how much you play.

All I want to know is this:

Are all the combine macro loading screens for 360 version of DMC4 less then, equal to, or more then 20 minutes?

cosmostein77

This is impossible to answer, different from gamer to gamer. My guess would be more.

[QUOTE="cosmostein77"]

All I want to know is this:

Are all the combine macro loading screens for 360 version of DMC4 less then, equal to, or more then 20 minutes?

dsmccracken

This is impossible to answer, different from gamer to gamer. My guess would be more.

I could see it becoming a problem if it becomes a habit of PS3 devs to have you install on your HD... 40GB is not lot of space. Esp when most of the new PS3 userbase will have that small of a HD.

They should at least give you guys a option. I'm curious why they didn't do that with XBOX 360

I'm curious why they didn't do that with XBOX 360 _Spock_

It does suck if you have a 40GB PS3 :| (must really suck for the 20GB users)Ballroompirate

But unlike MS system you can upgrade with any laptop HDD. My PS3 has 250GB internal and I have a 500GB external I can hook up.

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]It does suck if you have a 40GB PS3 :| (must really suck for the 20GB users)rockydog1111

But unlike MS system you can upgrade with any laptop HDD. My PS3 has 250GB internal and I have a 500GB external I can hook up.

How did you transfer your game files, data, saves, etc. from one PS3 HDD to the other PS3 HDD?

Now that I thought about, I think you're good to go, but I don't think more people will buy a 250gb internal and 500gb external HDD for their PS3s, maybe not yet.

[QUOTE="rockydog1111"]

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]It does suck if you have a 40GB PS3 :| (must really suck for the 20GB users)ReverseCycology

But unlike MS system you can upgrade with any laptop HDD. My PS3 has 250GB internal and I have a 500GB external I can hook up.

How did you transfer your game files, data, saves, etc. from one PS3 HDD to the other PS3 HDD?

Now that I thought about, I think you're good to go, but I don't think more people will buy a 250gb internal and 500gb external HDD for their PS3s, maybe not yet.

[QUOTE="ReverseCycology"][QUOTE="rockydog1111"]

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]It does suck if you have a 40GB PS3 :| (must really suck for the 20GB users)heretrix

But unlike MS system you can upgrade with any laptop HDD. My PS3 has 250GB internal and I have a 500GB external I can hook up.

How did you transfer your game files, data, saves, etc. from one PS3 HDD to the other PS3 HDD?

Now that I thought about, I think you're good to go, but I don't think more people will buy a 250gb internal and 500gb external HDD for their PS3s, maybe not yet.

Thanks now I know what to do if I want to upgrade.

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="ReverseCycology"][QUOTE="rockydog1111"]

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]It does suck if you have a 40GB PS3 :| (must really suck for the 20GB users)ReverseCycology

But unlike MS system you can upgrade with any laptop HDD. My PS3 has 250GB internal and I have a 500GB external I can hook up.

How did you transfer your game files, data, saves, etc. from one PS3 HDD to the other PS3 HDD?

Now that I thought about, I think you're good to go, but I don't think more people will buy a 250gb internal and 500gb external HDD for their PS3s, maybe not yet.

Thanks now I know what to do if I want to upgrade.

[QUOTE="cosmostein77"]

All I want to know is this:

Are all the combine macro loading screens for 360 version of DMC4 less then, equal to, or more then 20 minutes?

dsmccracken

This is impossible to answer, different from gamer to gamer. My guess would be more.

On the average playthough on standard difficulty.

I have no doubt of Johnny Gamer played it through ten times the loading time would add up.

If we are talking about 360's version having five minutes more load time then the installed PS3 version it certainly become a factor in the conversation.

I am going to play DMC4 through once, and then perhaps again during the summer gaming dregs how much time will the 20 gig install save me if any?

yeah but one game takes 20 minutes right? I wouldn't mind if it takes less than 5 minutesish_gibbor

What exaclty are the benefits of a 20+ minute install? Load-times that are reduced by 2-3 seconds? Not that great if you ask me.MonacoX

EXACTLY! The first time I turned my PS3 on and realized I had to preinstall my game I was furious. This so called powerful console with Blu-Ray technology has ot preload games in order to cut a few seconds off the load times is a joke.

THANK GOD it's not my main console of choice.

Either way, even if it is just to help the PS3's loading times, is it all that bad of a feature? I mean.. really? is it bad enough to prevent someone from buying the PS3? is it so bad that it is worth all this negativity and bashing?
0rin

YES! It is really that bad. It's nonscense and if I knew this BEFORE getting one I would not have gotten it. I ALREADY regret getting one and now I'm hearing all this 20 minute 5 gig install crap makes me glad I use my 360 for my REAL gaming needs.

[QUOTE="MonacoX"]What exaclty are the benefits of a 20+ minute install? Load-times that are reduced by 2-3 seconds? Not that great if you ask me.thegame1980

EXACTLY! The first time I turned my PS3 on and realized I had to preinstall my game I was furious. This so called powerful console with Blu-Ray technology has ot preload games in order to cut a few seconds off the load times is a joke.

THANK GOD it's not my main console of choice.

Games like Uncharted say hello, looks great, has plenty of things going on and loading is damn near non-existant...not to mention you dont have to install jack to make it run like that. Its a couple devs that are being lazy and treating the console like a pc instead of using streaming technology.

It does suck if you have a 40GB PS3 :| (must really suck for the 20GB users)Ballroompirate

It sucks having to load any game from disk on a game console. I know Ken K. said the PS3 was a computer, but this is ridiculous. If you have a 20GB or 40GB PS3, you will most likely have to uninstall several games in the lifespan of your PS3 to just to play a new title. This may be why Sony have decided to scrap the 80GB PS3 for a 120GB or 160GB PS3. What's going to happen when they come out with their Movie, T.V. and PPV download shows after HOME is released? That stuff will eat up memory pretty quickly.

I don't like the idea of mandatory installation on a console, but if they need to do it, they could at least do it with a bit more finesse. Make the initial installation time as short as possible, load early game data on to the HDD, then install the rest in the background while the game is playing. 20-25 minute install times are long even for PC games.

it's not good. it's not bad. it's nothing. what are you guys doing with your lives that 20 minutes is such a big deal? just read the game's instruction book or something while you wait for the installation.CaseyWegner

RIGHT!

Did you not see the posts about the reason most of us are console gamers is so we DON'T have to preinstall like PC players do? How aobut hte fact many of us just wanna rip thorugh the game when we first get it for a few minutes. I know I did when I got my PS3 and Ratchet and Clank for Xmas. All I wanted to do was screw around for like 10 minutes then come back later. NOOOOO I had to preinstall which took like 10 15 minutes.

Fact is there's no good reason for it since the oh so weaker Xbox can do it with only a few seconds more of loading.

[QUOTE="thegame1980"]

[QUOTE="MonacoX"]What exaclty are the benefits of a 20+ minute install? Load-times that are reduced by 2-3 seconds? Not that great if you ask me.alextheman123

EXACTLY! The first time I turned my PS3 on and realized I had to preinstall my game I was furious. This so called powerful console with Blu-Ray technology has ot preload games in order to cut a few seconds off the load times is a joke.

THANK GOD it's not my main console of choice.

Games like Uncharted say hello, looks great, has plenty of things going on and loading is damn near non-existant...not to mention you dont have to install jack to make it run like that. Its a couple devs that are being lazy and treating the console like a pc instead of using streaming technology.

Games like Uncharted also don't hold my interest. Played the demo. Wasn't a fan. But I see your point.

How much space does DMC take to install?Meu2k7

You honestly don't think if MS had a standard HDD, devs wouldn't be doing the same thing for the 360?

0rin

they wouldn't; the installation is becasue blu ray takes longer to load.

[QUOTE="0rin"] You honestly don't think if MS had a standard HDD, devs wouldn't be doing the same thing for the 360?

krunkfu2

they wouldn't; the installation is becasue blu ray takes longer to load.

They could have done it on the XBox 360, but Microsoft told CapCom "NO!". :lol: It could have easily been a option for XBox 360 owners who do have a HDD, but why? The load times aren't that bad on the XBox 360 version. ;)