What has Microsoft done for the Video Game industry?

The modern standard controller structure (MS copied it) lx_theo

nintendo

Eyetoylx_theo

Multiuse for console (PS2 introduced being able to watch movies too with DVD)lx_theo

"Memory cards Popularized Disc Disc Based Games on consoles"

sega

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] That the API is capable of doing equivalent versions of the games using OpenGL is kind of telling that the API is a worthy contender don't you think? Windows monopoly translates into DirectX monopoly it doesn't have to do with the capabilities of the APIs.lx_theo

so what you are saying is that the developers should stop trying to use thebest tools and switch to open GL because microsoft is evil?

he never said that :|

Listen to whats said, not what you want to hear/read

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] That the API is capable of doing equivalent versions of the games using OpenGL is kind of telling that the API is a worthy contender don't you think? Windows monopoly translates into DirectX monopoly it doesn't have to do with the capabilities of the APIs.kuraimen

so what you are saying is that the developers should stop trying to use thebest tools and switch to open GL because microsoft is evil?

DirectX.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] No I say people should support OpenGL because it actually is as good as DirectXohthemanatee

and it promotes diversity in the industry instead of supporting a monopoly that hurts the industry more.kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

so what you are saying is that the developers should stop trying to use thebest tools and switch to open GL because microsoft is evil?

alexside1

It is as good because you can make the same quality games with it that you can make with DirectX. kuraimen

but the way I see it that makes it WORSE then Direct X, not as good

Microsoft likes to monopolize, I don't like monopolies, the industry would be better without them.kuraimen

[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

so what you are saying is that the developers should stop trying to use thebest tools and switch to open GL because microsoft is evil?

ohthemanatee

he never said that :|

Listen to whats said, not what you want to hear/read

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] . No I say people should support OpenGL because it actually is as good as DirectX and it promotes diversity in the industry instead of supporting a monopoly that hurts the industry more.kuraimen

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="lx_theo"] Not what he said. Using the tools that are native to the operating system that is easily the most used just makes sense. It, in no way, means that the tools are better. Listen to whats said, not what you want to hear/read.kuraimen

he never said that :|

Listen to whats said, not what you want to hear/read

so you're saying that Open GL is as good as Direct X on a Mac?

where did you say this?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] It is as good because you can make the same quality games with it that you can make with DirectX. ohthemanatee

but the way I see it that makes it WORSE then Direct X, not as good

Microsoft likes to monopolize, I don't like monopolies, the industry would be better without them.kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

he never said that :|

Listen to whats said, not what you want to hear/read

ohthemanatee

so you're saying that Open GL is as good as Direct X on a Mac?

where did you say this?

I didn't know games like World of Goo required so much budget and time..kuraimen

And when did I say that I like to see a Nintendo or Sony monopoly?kuraimen

so you hated sony when the PS2 had over 75% of the market?

and you hated nintendo when it dominated the handheld and the home console market?

It is as good because you can make the same quality games with it that you can make with DirectX.kuraimen

Microsoft likes to monopolize,

EVERY company likes to monopolize MS is no expection.

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Actually that's exaclty part of what I'm saying. :|kuraimen

so you're saying that Open GL is as good as Direct X on a Mac?

where did you say this?

then I ask again, when did you say this?

[QUOTE="lx_theo"]

nintendo

[QUOTE="lx_theo"]Eyetoyohthemanatee

Multiuse for console (PS2 introduced being able to watch movies too with DVD)lx_theo

"Memory cards Popularized Disc Disc Based Games on consoles"

sega

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] I didn't know games like World of Goo required so much budget and time..ohthemanatee

And when did I say that I like to see a Nintendo or Sony monopoly?kuraimen

so you hated sony when the PS2 had over 75% of the market?

and you hated nintendo when it dominated the handheld and the home console market?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

so you're saying that Open GL is as good as Direct X on a Mac?

where did you say this?

ohthemanatee

then I ask again, when did you say this?

[QUOTE="Creator_Of_All"]

XNA allows everyone to make actual real games, not only for PC/XBLA but for Windows 7 Phones too with one code base, that is the single best thing that any company could do for gamers that want to take their hobby furher and create their own worlds and experiencs, no company will match that ever, MS hasdone the sinlge most important thing in gaming, provided the toolsfor everyone to develop games for free

Try to do the same for PSN, iPhone etc and prepare to find a 100.000$ budget first, while MS allows you to do it for free

ohthemanatee

XNA isn't free

it's not expensive either (99 dollars per year, which is stupidly cheap), but it's not free

You dont pay anything to developer the game in Windows, so the development phase can be totally free, only when you want to test it you have to pay, so you dont hve to pay anything when you actually start making the game

I think is free for students and is free for Windows and 99$ for phones or XBLA testing, which is essentially free comparing to 10.000$ dev kits

Still, the point remains, now everyone can start making a actual game, with free tools on Windows and a tiny 99$ cost to test it on the actual devices like Xbox and WP7, which is something no company has come even close to providing yet

Even more important is that with one code base, you can target 4 platforms, Xbox 360, Windows 7 PC, Windows 7 Phones and Windows 7 Tablets

The modern controller? No, sony did that. (The modern controller was the one designed for the hand's shape, with the extrusions from the back to make it more form fitting. It also includes analog sticks and shoulder buttons and whatnot) lx_theo

clearly Sony thought of it by themselves :o

You mean the thing that was never released from Japan (and was being developed at the same time as the Eyetoy?) Yeah, even if that was an issue, same thing with MS's "online' contributions"lx_theo

oh...right,...he's a sony supporter, silly me

I see nowhere where sega cd it was used for other stuff than games. And that last one's just wrong.lx_theo

lol? the CDI played movies, the atari 7800 could become a PC (I think it was the 7800), the Amiga cd 32 could also become a PC

and Sega came up with memory cards first (sega saturn anyone?)

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Eh putting words in my mouth now? Read and re-read again if you have to.kuraimen

then I ask again, when did you say this?

so when and where did you actually say it?

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="lx_theo"] sega

[QUOTE="lx_theo"]Multiuse for console (PS2 introduced being able to watch movies too with DVD)lx_theo

"Memory cards Popularized Disc Disc Based Games on consoles"

sega

*shakes head*
Controllers http://gadgets.softpedia.com/news/History-of-the-Game-Controller-2737-01.html

Sega had a visual motion sensing product first that is a fact don't act like its not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-i
Video CDs (VCDs), though the last requires an optional "Digital Video Card" to provide MPEG-1 decoding.

Please come back again and I'll give you the facts.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

then I ask again, when did you say this?

alexside1

so when and where did you actually say it?

if you have to resort to games that look like this:

World of Goo is a quality game made with Ope

nGL and you said that quality games made with OpenGL required extra budget and time.kuraimen

I didn't hate them but they were not actively trying to control the market as much as M$ does. Those virtual monopolies barely last one gen and normally are because on of the parties leaves the fight, M$ has kept its monopoly since pretty much the start of the PC industry using monopolizing tactics.kuraimen

you mean the monopoly in which nintendo forbade developers from making games to any system but nintendo systems?

oh yeah, clearly nintendo didn't try anything :roll:

or how about when sony payed 200 Japanese studios to not develop games for the saturn?

Go and re-read my posts, it is not very hard since they are on this thread you know? And since lx_theo managed to understand it then I'm pretty sure you are also capable.kuraimen

so you're not supplying the burden of proof, why am I not surprised?

You know being good for 'the industry' or whatever doesn't simply come down to a check-box list of who did what first. I think Microsoft have been pretty decent in so far as they've released a good console with good games. Gaming is definitely better with the xbox. They aint perfect (by a long shot) but they're no worse than Sony or Nintendo. Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] I didn't say what you are saying I said. The thing lx_theo said I said is actually what I tried to say.kuraimen

so when and where did you actually say it?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] World of Goo is a quality game made with Ope

then you just proved my point, maybe you should try comparing Open GL to flash or silverlight, you might be more sucessfull there....maybe

nGL and you said that quality games made with OpenGL required extra budget and time.ohthemanatee

I didn't hate them but they were not actively trying to control the market as much as M$ does. Those virtual monopolies barely last one gen and normally are because on of the parties leaves the fight, M$ has kept its monopoly since pretty much the start of the PC industry using monopolizing tactics.kuraimen

you mean the monopoly in which nintendo forbade developers from making games to any system but nintendo systems?

oh yeah, clearly nintendo didn't try anything :roll:

or how about when sony payed 200 Japanese studios to not develop games for the saturn?

thats sony and nintendo though making that a good buisness decision. Whats funny is Kuiraman doesn't even know what Microsoft was monoplizing...In the PC arena they were taken to task by the state department because of anti trust when it came to their java alternative and offering IE and such for free and with their OS.
they were called a monopoly because folks like Netscape wanted to charge for their Browser and Microsoft went ahead and offered it for free included with their OS...

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] World of Goo is a quality game made with Ope

then you just proved my point, maybe you should try comparing Open GL to flash or silverlight, you might be more sucessfull there....maybe

nGL and you said that quality games made with OpenGL required extra budget and time.ohthemanatee

I didn't hate them but they were not actively trying to control the market as much as M$ does. Those virtual monopolies barely last one gen and normally are because on of the parties leaves the fight, M$ has kept its monopoly since pretty much the start of the PC industry using monopolizing tactics.kuraimen

you mean the monopoly in which nintendo forbade developers from making games to any system but nintendo systems?

oh yeah, clearly nintendo didn't try anything :roll:

or how about when sony payed 200 Japanese studios to not develop games for the saturn?

Apart from other games like Rage, L4D, WOW, etc.

I was not aware of Nintendo forbidding game developers (unless they were first party of course which then would make sense) or Sony paying 200 studios. Are you sure those are true? If those are true then I am against that kind of things.

[QUOTE="lx_theo"] you mean the controller that looks like an SNES controller, has the same button placements, copied it's shoulder buttons, the N64's analog controller and the N64 rumble?

clearly Sony thought of it by themselves :o

[QUOTE="lx_theo"]You mean the thing that was never released from Japan (and was being developed at the same time as the Eyetoy?) Yeah, even if that was an issue, same thing with MS's "online' contributions"ohthemanatee

oh...right,...he's a sony supporter, silly me

I see nowhere where sega cd it was used for other stuff than games. And that last one's just wrong.lx_theo

lol? the CDI played movies, the atari 7800 could become a PC (I think it was the 7800), the Amiga cd 32 could also become a PC

and Sega came up with memory cards first (sega saturn anyone?)

When you think about it, they havent done anything, at least Sony have done some things

Online gaming service - Blizzard did it first, Blizzard also did it better and for free

Achievements - Microsoft didnt invent this at all

Matchmaking - Bungie/Microsoft invented it ammirite? no Starcraft invented it, Bungie did revolutionize it for consoles, ill give them that

DLC - Pretty sure EA invented this with The Sims, Microsoft isnt too blame for DLC, either way DLC is cancer

Bro gamers - lol, that was Playstation, Bro gamers moved to Xbox 360 this gen since it was cheaper than 599 US DOLLARS

Hardcore gamers - playing COD/Halo doesnt make you Hardcore, infact both those games are very casual

Kinect - advanced eyetoy, nothing more, nothing less

So have Microsoft done anything? they just seem to be leeching

HaloinventedFPS

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Go and re-read my posts, it is not very hard since they are on this thread you know? And since lx_theo managed to understand it then I'm pretty sure you are also capable.ohthemanatee

so you're not supplying the burden of proof, why am I not surprised?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="alexside1"]

so when and where did you actually say it?

WilliamRLBaker

Lol they made this generation of gaming what it is. The biggest difference between this gen and last gen is primarily online gaming. Microsoft has perfected console multiplayer. This is by far my favorite generation of gaming.

Apart from other games like Rage, L4D, WOW, etc.kuraimen

I was not aware of Nintendo forbidding game developers (unless they were first party of course which then would make sense) kuraimen

Sega sued nintendo for it i

"by the end of the 1980s, Sega sued Nintendo, claiming that they had abused their relationship with third-party developers and created a monopoly in the gaming industry by not allowing developers to make games for any other platforms. The courts found Nintendo guilty of anti-trust activities. They changed this rule during the Super NES era, allowing Sega to start a massive console war against Nintendo with the Sega Mega Drive and Game Gear. This occurred once more in 1996, when Sony released the PlayStation."

link

or Sony paying 200 studios. Are you sure those are true? If those are true then I am against that kind of things.

kuraimen

yep and I love how G4 twisted it an inocent thing

Apart from other games like Rage, L4D, WOW, etc.

kuraimen

Do you know that L4D/WOW is originally program in Direct x and than latter ported to MAC OS?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="alexside1"]

so when and where did you actually say it?

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="alexside1"] if you have to resort to games that look like this:

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I didn't hate them but they were not actively trying to control the market as much as M$ does. Those virtual monopolies barely last one gen and normally are because on of the parties leaves the fight, M$ has kept its monopoly since pretty much the start of the PC industry using monopolizing tactics.WilliamRLBaker

you mean the monopoly in which nintendo forbade developers from making games to any system but nintendo systems?

oh yeah, clearly nintendo didn't try anything :roll:

or how about when sony payed 200 Japanese studios to not develop games for the saturn?

thats sony and nintendo though making that a good buisness decision. Whats funny is Kuiraman doesn't even know what Microsoft was monoplizing...In the PC arena they were taken to task by the state department because of anti trust when it came to their java alternative and offering IE and such for free and with their OS.
they were called a monopoly because folks like Netscape wanted to charge for their Browser and Microsoft went ahead and offered it for free included with their OS...

How do you know what I know? Are you some kind of wizard? :P Microsoft's monopolizing tactics include that but are not limited to that.

Lol they made this generation of gaming what it is. The biggest difference between this gen and last gen is primarily online gaming. Microsoft has perfected console multiplayer. This is by far my favorite generation of gaming.

Miketheman83

and those are the exceptions, not the rule

ohthemanatee

That there is even one game that matches DirectX capabilities means OpenGL is as capable. Common sense.

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"] and those are the exceptions, not the rule

kuraimen

That there is even one game that matches DirectX capabilities means OpenGL is as capable. Common sense.

Its MUCH different. Sure, the layout of the directional buttons, letter buttons and stuff are similar. But the actual shape of it is what defines it and makes it extremely unique (for its time), and why it proved revolutionary in controller design. lx_theo

by that logic the 360 controller is completly original as well :roll:

Like I said, it was being developed at the same time. So its really a nonissue that it was released later.lx_theo

despite the fact that the dreameye was first revealed as a project in 1998 and sony just magically started working on the eyetoy a year later amirite

I didn't live during those eras, so i wouldn't know from first hand experience, but I looked for a bit and couldn't find anything stating that. But meh, I'll just go with what you're saying. lx_theo

the CD-I played movies, just watch the AVGN

as for the amiga cd 32

"Those devices extend the capability of Amiga CD32, allowing it to utilize hardware such as an external 3.5" floppy disk drive, hard disk and IBM PC keyboard. An Amiga CD32 can be turned into a de facto Amiga 1200 via the addition of 3rd party packages."

link

"As for the memory cards, I saw it was released a few months earlier and edited a while ago. Now its really just debatable, since I'd hardly say that much time makes a big difference in who did what. For the idea that its irrelevant that if they didn't popularize it, even with that Sony has done more."

again, speak to the TC, we're just using his logic, if you attack someone for faulty logic, attack him

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"] and those are the exceptions, not the rule

kuraimen

That there is even one game that matches DirectX capabilities means OpenGL is as capable. Common sense.

I believe this is the third time i'm going to say this: You can make a great looking games with Open GL, but it requires more time and a bigger budget because the tools are not as good

you're essentially asking developers to use poorer tools because you think microsoft is evil

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Online console gaming...HaloinventedFPS

derp
Dreamcast had it before Xbox, so did PS2

Derp, the NES had it too.

My point is Microsoft innovated the idea and helped it become successful.

PSN wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for XBL.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"] and those are the exceptions, not the rule

ohthemanatee

That there is even one game that matches DirectX capabilities means OpenGL is as capable. Common sense.

I believe this is the third time i'm going to say this: You can make a great looking games with Open GL, but it requires more time and a bigger budget because the tools are not as good

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

That there is even one game that matches DirectX capabilities means OpenGL is as capable. Common sense.

kuraimen

I believe this is the third time i'm going to say this: You can make a great looking games with Open GL, but it requires more time and a bigger budget because the tools are not as good