Who is the most overrated figurehead in the gaming industry?

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"] I see a lot of AAA and AA scores on his track record...IronBass

and AAA games are not "particularly good"?

I understand if you don't like them personally. But if we take that road then we go down a road of subjectivity

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Molyneux has both contributed to gaming in a very significant way and has created exceptionally good games...so..what the hell are you talking about?IronBass

Populous was amazing and it's influence is visible in majority of strategy games today. Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate and MAgic Carpet were all amazing too and Theme Park and Powermonger were at least very good

You could just as well say Miyamoto contribution isn't significant. Afterall, he also didn't create any new genre (I know the weight

And lol...creating a subgenre is hardly a significant contribution? That's more one can say about majority of developers out there, even the most talented ones. And it's far more than either Kojima or Cliffy can say about themselves

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]and AAA games are not "particularly good"? I understand if you don't like them personally. But if we take that road then we go down a road of subjectivityIronBass

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]and AAA games are not "particularly good"? I understand if you don't like them personally. But if we take that road then we go down a road of subjectivityIronBass

yes you did, let me bring up your exact words:

"And none of his games are particulary good"

Populous was amazing and it's influence is visible in majority of strategy games today. Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate and MAgic Carpet were all amazing too and Theme Park and Powermonger were at least very goodAdrianWerner

That was a long time ago...

You could just as well say Miyamoto contribution isn't significant. Afterall, he also didn't create any new genre (I know the weight scale is completely different between those two, but still)AdrianWerner

Miyamoto's games are credited as a huge factor in the salvation of console gaming and the expansion of gaming as a whole.

He has created the best known game characters/franchises, Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc. The fact that he has constantly makes brilliant games helps, too.

They are not even remotely comparable.

Denying Molynex recognition when at the same time giving it to the likesof Kojima or especially Cliffy B is pure joke.AdrianWerner

Kojima is the mind behind what has been one of the biggest names in gaming for the past two gens, and directed one of the best games this gen. Blezinski has been behind two of the best games this gen, being the first Gears one of the most influential games this gen.

[QUOTE="segaempire"]

lol people who started gaming on the xbox picking peter. His one of the all time greats, he made some abolute classics before fable, which is a good game in itself

ohthemanatee

you don't even need to back to the classics, you could just look at The movies and Black and White. There really isn't anything quite like those games

And none of his games areparticulary good"ohthemanatee

Are, as right now, by today's standards.

I don't know how anyone can pick Miyamoto.

In terms of other people giving him credit, it's largely deserved.

In terms of how highly he regards himself, publically at least, he doesn't seem to put himself up on a pedestal.

-----

I'm assuming the reason so many picking Molyneux is because he seems pretentious and has a tendency to open his mouth too much.

Kojima has an air of pretentiousness to him as well.

That was a long time ago...

Miyamoto's games are credited asa huge factor in the salvation and expansionof console gaming and gaming as a whole.IronBass

He has also created the best known game characters/franchises, Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc. The fact that he has constantly makes brilliant games helps, too.IronBass

They are not even remotely comparable.

[

Kojima is the mind behind what has been one of the biggest names in gaming for the past two gens, and directed one of the best games this gen. Blezinski has been behind two of the best games this gen, being the first Gears one of the most influential games this gen.

IronBass

i'm detecting a conflict here...ohthemanatee

Saving and expanding gaming is a timeless achievement. Creating an AAA game, not that much.

define "big"ohthemanatee

Sales, critical success, fanbase.

That was a long time ago...IronBass

Miyamoto's games are credited asa huge factor in the salvation and expansionof console gaming and gaming as a whole.IronBass

Gaming as a whole would survive just fine without Miyamoto. And I did write he was a whole different weight class from Molyneyx. I was just making fun of you claiming creating a subgenre isn't much. Which was especially funny considering neither Kojima, nor Cliffy can claim to do even this much.

Kojima is the mind behind what has been one of the biggest names in gaming for the past two gens, and directed one of the best games this gen. Blezinski has been behind two of the best games this gen, being the first Gears one of the most influential games this gen.

IronBass

Creating an AAA game, not that much.

IronBass

Saving and expanding gaming is a timeless achievement. Creating an AAA game, not that much.IronBass

Sales, critical success, fanbase.

ohthemanatee

Fable 2 has at least two of those three (sales and fanbase)

as for scores: Fable 2 got an 89 on metacritic which surpasses Gears of war PC version

and is not that far from gears2 it also surpasses a lot of metal gear games

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]And none of his games areparticulary good"IronBass

Are, as right now, by today's standards.

I have not played many of the games you listed, so I have no personal way of telling how good they actually are, since metascores for such old games tend to be flawed.

Anyways, none of them are big names, so glad you like them, not that that changes anything.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Gaming as a whole would survive just fine without Miyamoto.AdrianWerner

There's no way to know that. The fact that somebody else could have done it does not change the fact that he was the one that actually did it.

And I did write he was a whole different weight class from Molyneyx. I was just making fun of you claiming creating a subgenre isn't much. Which was especially funny considering neither Kojima, nor Cliffy can claim to do even this much. Molyneux had bigger influence on gaming than Kojima had. And cliffy is one shot wonder who has yet to prove he can create anything but one series. Neither of them compares to Molyneux in grand scheme of things. Both are far more overrated than Molyneux is today.AdrianWerner

And as I said, creating a sub-genre is not that big of a deal. Making franchises like Gears of War or MGS has more merit.

And as I said, creating a sub-genre is not that big of a deal. Making franchises like Gears of War or MGS has more merit.

IronBass

not even close to having the same merit, much less having more merit :|

so tell me, was the last time Carmack created a AAA game?

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

And as I said, creating a sub-genre is not that big of a deal. Making franchises like Gears of War or MGS has more merit.

ohthemanatee

not even close to having the same merit, much less having more merit :|

and creating a sub-genre isn't expanding the industry?is it not also a timeless achievement?ohthemanatee

Not necessarily. And depends on which genre.If it's a genre that is not too significant right now, not so much.

Sales, critical success, fanbase.

ohthemanatee

Fable 2 has at least two of those three (sales and fanbase)

as for scores: Fable 2 got an 89 on metacritic which surpasses Gears of war PC version

and is not that far from gears2 it also surpasses a lot of metal gear games

You just pointed out how MGS and Gears are bigger than Fable, so excuse me if I don't get your point.

Depends on the franchises. Miyamoto's contribution to gaming vs Molyneux's?

shinrabanshou

he's comparing Molyneux's contributions to Cliffy B.

You just pointed out how MGS and Gears are bigger than Fable, so excuse me if I don't get your point.

IronBass

how exactly did I point that?

also, going by your logic, Carmack is even a more overrated figure then Molyneux

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

Depends on the franchises. Miyamoto's contribution to gaming vs Molyneux's?

ohthemanatee

he's comparing Molyneux's contributions to Cliffy B.

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

he's comparing Molyneux's contributions to Cliffy B.

shinrabanshou

According to Iron Bass Bleszinski's achievments > Molyneux's

not even close to having the same merit, much less having more merit :|ohthemanatee

so tell me, was the last time Carmack created a AAA game?ohthemanatee

As I said in my last post, depends on the sub-genre, and depends on the franchises. Gears of War and MGS are two of the biggest franchises in gaming right now. When was the las impactful God game released? IronBass

The credit I give Carmack I do as a programmer, not as a game designer.ohthemanatee

you mean like programming AA games and game engines that hardly any games use anymore?

how exactly did I point that?ohthemanatee

also, going by your logic, Carmack is even a more overrated figure then Molyneuxohthemanatee

molyneux. all other selections are objectively wrong because at least they rest of the produce good, entertaining games at some point or another many people have enjoyed.

MGS4 and both Gears games being higher rated than Fable 2. (They've also has sold more, btw). IronBass

and at exactly what point do we reach the conclusion that A game sold well and B game didn't?

molyneux. all other selections are objectively wrong because at least they rest of the produce good, entertaining games at some point or another many people have enjoyed.

CaptainHarley

So did Molyneux :|

Sporeohthemanatee

The only thing impactful about Spore is how hard it flopped :P

you mean like programming AA games and game engines that hardly any games use anymore?ohthemanatee

No, I mean like creating engines and programming techniques that have influenced many many many games.

molyneux. all other selections are objectively wrong because at least they rest of the produce good, entertaining games at some point or another many people have enjoyed.

CaptainHarley

No, I mean like creating engines and programming techniques that have influenced many many many games.

IronBass

are they recent?

and as I pointed out the score differences are minimal :|ohthemanatee

Not so minimal, I think.

Also, the fanbase part is still pending. Would you say Fable has a fanbase comparable to MGS4 and Gears?

In other words, would you say the name "Fable" is comparable to "Metal Gear Solid" and "Gears of Wars"?

and at exactly what point do we reach the conclusion that A game sold well and B game didn't?

ohthemanatee

I haven't said Fable 2 sold bad, I said it has not sold more than MGS4 and Gears.

are they recent?ohthemanatee

Not so minimal, I think.

Also, the fanbase part is still pending. Would you say Fable has a fanbase comparable to MGS4 and Gears?

In other words, would you say the name "Fable" is comparable to "Metal Gear Solid" and "Gears of Wars"?IronBass

Is the difference really that big? and once again I ask, at what point do we seperate each other?

I haven't said Fable 2 sold bad, I said it has not sold more than MGS4 and Gears.

ohthemanatee

that is not related to my question though

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]are they recent?IronBass

you're forgetting Dungeon Keeper and Magic carpet 2 that's 3 more AAA games then Carmack ever created

and I don't know about you, but I don't see any significant-o-meter

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]are they recent?IronBass

you're forgetting Dungeon Keeper and Magic carpet 2 that's 3 more AAA games then Carmack ever created

ohthemanatee

Based on what are you considering them AAA?

Honest question, thosetwo are too old to have metascores, so I dunno.

and I don't know about you, but I don't see and significant-o-meterohthemanatee

I'll help. Creating codes and engine that have been basic for the evolution of gaming is more significant than just making a few good games.

Based on what are you considering them AAA?

Honest question, thosetwo are too old to have metascores, so I dunno.IronBass

I'll help. Creating codes and engine that have been basic for the evolution of gaming is more significant than just making a few good games.

ohthemanatee

when did we start comparing Carmack to Cliffy B.?

any worker of bungie seriously ,

one franchise suddenly makes bungie the best developer now come on ! we all know this is a hoax

every halo sells for what reason even a 60 dollar expansion

but not every good game such as top gear has not sold well ,

in fact top geardare devel and rpm ,, flopped ,

when did we start comparing Carmack to Cliffy B.?ohthemanatee

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]when did we start comparing Carmack to Cliffy B.?IronBass

creating a few good games, that's basically what Cliffy did

creating a new sub genre and many good games, that's what Molyneux did

creating a few good games, that's basically what Cliffy did creating a new sub genre and many good games, that's what Molyneux didohthemanatee

Well, 2 (recent) AAAs >>> 1 (10-years old) AAA + 2 AAs :P

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]creating a few good games, that's basically what Cliffy did creating a new sub genre and many good games, that's what Molyneux didIronBass

Well, 2 (recent) AAAs >>> 1 (10-years old) AAA + 2 AAs :P

3 AAA games + (i'm not even going to bother counting them) AA games > 2 AAA games

3 AAA games + (i'm not even going to bother counting them) AA games > 2 AAA gamesohthemanatee

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]3 AAA games + (i'm not even going to bother counting them) AA games > 2 AAA gamesIronBass

and i'd say it's generally agreed that most of them (with the exception of the first two populous games) stood the test of time

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"] Peter Molyneux created a sub-genre, more then I can say for Kojima and Cliff Bleszinskyohthemanatee

Not really, Kojima and the Metal Gear series seems to be more appreciated and more of a success in the gaming community.

how is that related to what I said? Kojima's games are sucessfull be he never created anything new. The stealth genre already existed before kojima

Molyneux created the god games. and He still creates great games

And? The Death Metal genre existed before the band Death, but Chuck Schuldiner(the man behind Death) is still seen as the father of Death Metal because he made music that was more "true" to it's genre, rather than the earlier band Possessed which was thrashy where Death was brutal. A bit of an off-topic example, but I hope you get my point.

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

Not really, Kojima and the Metal Gear series seems to be more appreciated and more of a success in the gaming community.

araksik

how is that related to what I said? Kojima's games are sucessfull be he never created anything new. The stealth genre already existed before kojima

Molyneux created the god games. and He still creates great games

And? The Death Metal genre existed before the band Death, but Chuck Schuldiner(the man behind Death) is still seen as the father of Death Metal because he made music that was more "true" to it's genre, rather than the earlier band Possessed which was thrashy where Death was brutal. A bit of an off-topic example, but I hope you get my point.

bbbbbad analogy