Why is there such a complete lack of diversity and effort in Microsoft's Xbox first party?

@charizard1605: sunset overdrive? Also Recore, sea of thieves, Scalebound and quantum break will offer some diversity. You're getting fable, gears and crackdown later this year and next, too.

@charizard1605: Why are you including last generation franchises in this? What do current libraries look like in this respect?

I probably should, but I don't take him seriously.

I'm generating discussion, man. Generally, when someone pisses me off (and there is one way to piss me off, have a poor product on the market), I attack them pretty thoroughly- I spent six years last generation doing that to Sony with the PS3, four years doing that to Nintendo with the Wii, and early Wii U and 3DS.

Unfortunately, Microsoft is the one that's gone to shit this time around, and I'll be honest, speaking as someone whose favorite system last generation was the Xbox 360, I personally feel let down at this. Sorry, but I am just not going to let misguided corporate loyalty get in the way of my holding these companies up to task when they absolutely deserve it.

Yeah, I wasn't too thorough with Sony's list, because Sony are fucking insane.

I used to do these for Sony all the time last generation and with the Vita (in fact, I was doing some as late as early last year). But Sony have generally put out a nice, appealing, consumer friendly product, so I have no issues giving them credit where it is due.

Actually, I count 'properties' and 'IP,' not franchises, generally speaking. And that goes both ways, I have counted games like Ori and Quantum Break for Microsoft too- don't you have problems with that?

Because I define active IPs very clearly in the OP. Here, I'll do it again, just for you:

You'd be surprised at how little time this takes.

Sunset Overdrive is not a Microsoft IP. Insomniac owns it. Same thing with Ryse and Crytek.

Because the comparison is Microsoft's IPs versus Sony's IPs,not PS4 versus Xbox One.

@charizard1605 I'm generating discussion, man. Generally, when someone pisses me off (and there is one way to piss me off, have a poor product on the market), I attack them pretty thoroughly- I spent six years last generation doing that to Sony with the PS3, four years doing that to Nintendo with the Wii, and early Wii U and 3DS.

Unfortunately, Microsoft is the one that's gone to shit this time around, and I'll be honest, speaking as someone whose favorite system last generation was the Xbox 360, I personally feel let down at this. Sorry, but I am just not going to let misguided corporate loyalty get in the way of my holding these companies up to task when they absolutely deserve it.

I honestly don't think anyone is doubting my "smear campaign" thing against you now, it's kind of getting sickening how much you're going after this system. I mean there's the cows who like to do stuff in fun, get a laugh from things and I know it's harmless banter, but you? You're making this into a job, it's like a personal vendetta, and I genuinely do not understand your motivations...

Why are you up Nintendo's ass so much with praise then if that is your logic? Microsoft is doing fine, and you're making things out to be like this system is dead and it's the end time... What about the last two years for Sony? What about how slow they've been to do anything? You don't call this shit out, you have an agenda and it's never been more clear.

ooooo it's getting salty in here

I just told you my motivations. But here they are again:

• I am genuinely an Xbox 360 fan. it was my favorite console last generation, and is one of my favorite consoles of all time. Consequently, the Xbox One is the console I wanted to migrate to this generation, but was let down, and frankly a little disgusted, at the product that was put out- less games, weaker resources, higher price, worse UI? At the very least, the higher price bit has been fixed, I suppose...
• Generally speaking, I do not take shit from companies lying down- why exactly should I? Consistently raising our voices against them is ultimately what affects real change, it's what made Sony stop taking their customer for granted, and get their ass in order last generation, it's what made Sega get their ass in gear for Dreamcast, and hopefully it's what gets Nintendo get their ass in gear for the NX too. If I am happy with a company and its product, I am going to make damn well sure that I lay it all out exactly as I feel it- these companies are profit seeking, money sucking greedy corporations, not being aggressive about what you want is basically asking them to rob you blind
• Just as a reminder, I have been doing threads like these for a long time- I did them for Nintendo for four years. I did many for Sony, including some as recently as last year, in which you yourself posted and never complained- remember the thread where I complained about PSN? Remember the thread where I complained about Sony's first party lineup? Hell, remember the thread I made three weeks ago about Sony potentially focusing on VR too much at the expense of first party support for the PS4? Remember the thread I made calling Sony to task over their horrible PS2 Classics handling on the PS4? Where were you then? You posted in those threads, all right, but you were on the frontlines agreeing with the points I made attacking Sony, you weren't asking me why I keep attacking Sony and what my motivations are back then.

Because Nintendo still has the 3DS, which is an appealing product by any degree. I have been scathing in my criticism of the Wii U, and of Nintendo as a company as a whole. As for Sony:

@charizard1605: Charizard you left off MLB The Show for Sony which solid seller every year, gets good reviews and adds another genre to library. Has to be included of you are going to count Forza for Xbox.

Nothing in the world would make me redo all of those graphs again, man, sorry. PS4 already has a very convincing win, so we'll just go with this. Plus it really wouldn't add a new genre, since sports are already accounted for with Hot Shots Golf.

The smear is real.

PlayStation definitely has the more diverse library of exclusives. Xbox has been living off Halo, Gears and Forza for a LONG time.

When is last time Xbox had new hit first party IP? It's been a long dam time. It is also no coincidence that Xbox has gone the longest without any exclusive winning GOTY.

I remember the PSN thing, and something about the controller, but those are problems, not nitpicks that you're blowing up astronomically. PSN having serious instabilities is a problem, Sony not listening to or implementing feedback is a problem, the DualShock 4 having a horrible battery life is a problem, Sony taking forever to do vital tasks is a problem, bitching about those things makes absolute sense, but what are you going after here?

Here you're attacking things that are not sufficient to your standards or liking, not a problem in any degree, just not up to snuff for you, and you're making it into a shit storm. Microsoft has 180'd on nearly everything they did wrong or was problematic with the Xbox One, they rebuilt their controller from feedback, they released a new controller for enthusiast gamers, they ditched Kinect, they dropped their price, they increased their HDD capacity, they added support for external HDD's, they added backward compatibility, they completely overhauled their UI, they added Xbox to Windows 10 streaming, they've cut back software resources to make use of more of their hardware for games, they've been massively improving their SDK's to help improve ease of development and performance for games, Phil is on board for greater focus on first party and core titles for the system in the future, they're literally doing everything they can to right every wrong they can....

So they're behind with some games, big fucking deal dude, it's not that much when you really look at it... PS4 just passed 600 games, what is the Xbox One at? It's at 414, and if you want to add the backward compatible games it's at 544... They're in this position with games because of 2013 and the damage that did, we all know that, and they're doing their damnedest to overcome it, but it's just never enough for you people I guess... You say you're so pissed off, but for what? You don't own this console, you have seen all this change from a completely separated third party perspective and you're acting like it's still June 2013 yourself....

Grow up, you romanticize and dramatize everything.

@charizard1605: you're still going to never see sunset overdrive on ps4, wii u or PC, so it's an authentic xbox exclusive, and a prime reason to own an xbox one.

@charizard1605: I wasn't saying re-do the graphs. I was just taling about adding it to the list. You could just replace that golf game with MLB the Show and you would not have to change anything else. It's just a huge omission.

Okay, I fixed all the graphs now, don't ask me to add something else.

The last time Xbox had a hit new first party IP, assuming we mean 'hit' hit, and not 'oh look, it sold a few hundred thousand copies' hit was Gears of War. In 2006. Ten years ago.

The PSN thing is not a problem? It was a big fucking problem. So was the backwards compatibility one. So was the Sony not listening to feedback with the PS4 and growing complacent one. So was the potential lack of upcoming first party support one. How is it that when I apply them to the PS4, they are me 'nitpicking,' and yet when I apply similar problems to the Xbox One, they are me astronomically blowing them out of proportion? Persecution complex much?

Microsoft fixed a lot of things, and for that I do give them credit, I've gotten into arguments about people not giving Microsoft their due on the price cuts or Kinect drop or BC enough on this board before, arguments that you've joined me in and supported me in yourself. This isn't about me picking on a company for some good humor, this is me making sure this company is taken to task, because I have seen what happens when it's allowed to get complacent.

Did you know 400 is 66% of 600? As in two thirds? As in this is a console that should have had as many games as the PS4, if not more (just like the Xbox 360 had more games last generation, in spite of massive Japanese backing for the PS3), but it doesn't? Yeah, I'll take them to task for that. I don't own it? i don't own it now, I did spend money on it before I decided to get rid of it. And f*ck me, but I want to spend money on it again, and get it for Scalebound and ReCore, but I'm finding it hard to justify this purchase.

You're taking this so personally, though- 'They're in this position with games because of 2013 and the damage that did, we all know that, and they're doing their damnedest to overcome it, but it's just never enough for you people,' like I don't use those meme images, but this literally comes off as you crying 'leave Microsoft alone!' No, I will not. It's a faceless corporation, not some company whose feelings I am hurting. It's a corporation that, just like any other out there, would f*ck me up the ass the first chance it gets, so I'll make sure it knows its place- which is at the behest of us, the customers.

Sorry you don't like people standing up for their rights against companies, I guess.

@jcrame10: No Sunset Overdrive is an 81 score game that does not have mass appeal. Not many people are go into buy a Xbox for that.

Also how do you know it is never going to PC?

Which is great, but I'm not making this about third party exclusives- or games like Persona 5 would have been on here. This is first party support and diversity only.

But I did it anyway, because what's the point of doing something if you don't do it well.

@charizard1605: Someone from MS said it during last gen, they don't believe a year must be flooded with what we call "real exclusives". They see their console as a piece of electronic entertainment. If you like something they offer, great you will get it on this entertainment console. But you will also have a year filled with games made by 3rd party studios that do support this console. If you scan the lists, like your now famous one, and prefer the option to play some of those games, great!! Go buy that console. I did and always do, albeit most of your on the PS side was worthless to me. The 4 games I do want is enough for me to own the PS console.

You're asking why this company handles the console business differently. How could any of us know? I do not believe the Japanese will ever fully accept an American companies console. There is nationalistic pride involved on some level imo. So there are some Japanese devs that simply wont make games for X1. But that's just my opinion.

@charizard1605: Oh, I see. Indeed it is rather bizarre since it doesn't hold bearing in the current landscape. Carry on.

I understand that, and having your console be the place to go to for multiplatform games boosts your chances of success greatly- just look at PS4 or Xbox 360. So I have no problems with adapting that strategy, but some exclusives are needed- you need differentiation, because otherwise, what happened this gen happens: a different console can emulate the third party strategy, do it well, hell do it better, and your console is left with nothing- since multiplats are no longer selling it, and there are no first party games left to differentiate it from the competition. Microsoft themselves understand this now, that's why they are pushing out so many new exclusives for the Xbox One, most of them new IP, but the amazing thing is it took them this long to understand this, when Nintendo established this all the way back in 1985- it's not like they have had no reason to get it before either, since the original Xbox wasn't exactly a runaway hit or anything. That should have been enough of a clue, that and the exclusives procured for Xbox 360 in its first two years selling it as much as they did.

Nice, you invented a convenient cut-off date so that you could count a franchise that's been officially pulled plug on - Resistance.

Same for that Vita Wipeout spin-off from 2012, whereas last proper Wipeout game was out in 2008 and that was only a small PSN downloadable title.

And de facto both franchises are as dead as they can be, or not any less dead than PGR and Viva Pinata.

Again you show your ignorance, Gears was not even around on the first X box.

'no one cares about Gears anymore'

'and no one ever cared about Forza no matter how good it is.'

Utter rubbish and utter arrogance, you speak for yourself sunshine, you don't speak for everyone else.

You lot are just gutted that Forza dethroned SONY's flagship title and became the Go to Driving game on consoles.

It absolutely does- Sony has used these franchises in the last five years, which indicates they hold enough of an interest in them to bring them to the PS4 as well- and indeed, we are seeing a new inFamous, new Uncharted, new Ratchet and Clank, and even a new Gravity Rush, for the system. Notice how I don't list Sony IP like Puppeteer or Rain or Beyond: Two Souls in this comparison, as they are irrelevant to the point I am making. My point is that these franchises are absolute candidates to appear on the PS4, and to bolster its exclusives lineup and appeal. With the Xbox, we only have five such franchises so far- though we are getting more this year.

So no, it is absolutely not irrelevant.

@Salt_The_Fries: I didn't invent a date, I chose a reasonable date. And I'm not picking dead IPs with no future- do you notice how my PlayStation list lacks Escape Plan? Puppeteer? Rain? Beyond: Two Souls? Motorstorm? You know why? Because they're not likely to come to the PS4 again. Resistance and Wipeout absolutely are.

Microsoft have indicated no interest in continuing Viva Pinata, the proof is in the pudding, Rare is now doing something else, the chances of a new Viva Pinata coming out before 2018 are zero, and beyond that still low.

Also, lol at calling Wipeout 2048 a spin off.

And yet Nintendo has had generations that are financial shit storms. You're forgetting something: this is a business first and foremost. And just like Activision did with GH and is doing with COD, its the American way to do it the way that's working until it doesn't.

I think with Nintendo there may be more of a historical passion for creating games. So yes its a business, but its like it has the heart of a family business in a way.

Microsoft is a monstrously profitable mega corporation with incomes from OS, software, hardware, patents. They have done it the American cold blooded way. Spencer probably got the job in the shit storm because someone recognized he either does have a passion for the gaming industry, or he can win an Oscar/Tony proving he does.

Nintendo has never actually had a single generation that was a financial shitstorm. For instance, in the Gamecube generation, they made more money than Microsoft, Sony, and Sega put together (and also individually, naturally).

Regardless, that is tangential to the point. Nintendo was used to assert historical relevance, you can switch it to Sony or Sega- exclusives matter. Microsoft has no reason to not know this, and yet we see a remarkable blatant disregard from them for this fact. That is why they are now in the predicament that they are in. Hopefully they understand having a strong internal portfolio is necessary going forwards.

@StrongBlackVine: 81 is a higher score than a lot of other games this gen.

If it was going to PC, there'd at least be a rumor by now.

Insomniacs never made a PC game.

They're currently working on Ratchet and Clank, Edge of Nowhere, and now Song of the Deep- highly doubt a SO port is being worked on

There actually have been several rumors for Sunset Overdrive on PC. None of them have come true so far, of course (they were in fact shot down fairly quickly), and I'm not saying the game will come to PC, but I'm just saying, it's not been as quiet as you think.

Char, you are a beast of a poster. Great thread, would read again.

Better get with the times, MS!

@charizard1605: I guess I have to make myself clear: legit rumors with legit sources, that weren't immediately shot down. I'm aware of the lies that Insomniac immediately squashed in the past.

@charizard1605: Well obviously Nintendo has the additions of its hand held this gen, but Iwata did not make a video begging consumers to buy WiiU because this gen is a console barn burner for them. The WiiU is a financial shit storm, fact.

And I never denied that MS has no excuse to not know this. I remember the bank roll with the Xbox Live ad campaign they rolled into Too Human, do you? The game turned out to have some promise but poor execution and then due to lawsuits it had to be completely negated from existence. That's my point about cold blooded American business. We don't take that risk again for a couple of years is how those suits think.

You're asking about diversity but your OP skipped games like SO, Screamride, KSR. You never said they had to be big MC scorers. So which is it that you want here in this thread? Because unlike you I have my X1 on right now and looking through the games library there is a lot of different kinds of games to be bought.

@cainetao11: The OP also skipped several games on Sony's side, current and upcoming, such as Escape Plan, Rain, Puppeteer, Journey, and Beyond: Two Souls. I could go back and add them, but it changes nothing, Sony gets four new IPs, Microsoft gets two, a linear proportion is maintained, and Microsoft gains one new genre, but so does Sony, so the difference is also maintained. Unless there is a shakeup, I am no longer updating the OP or graphs.'

'Well obviously Nintendo has the additions of its hand held this gen, but Iwata did not make a video begging consumers to buy WiiU because this gen is a console barn burner for them. The WiiU is a financial shit storm, fact.'

Iwata actually did not make any such video. I don't know where you got this idea from.

The Wii U has made over $300 million in profits - not revenue, profits - for Nintendo. The console is sold at insane markups, has little to no marketing, and enjoys healthy software attach ratios and sales.

'And I never denied that MS has no excuse to not know this. I remember the bank roll with the Xbox Live ad campaign they rolled into Too Human, do you? The game turned out to have some promise but poor execution and then due to lawsuits it had to be completely negated from existence.'

One bad experience is hardly the cue to stop trying completely, period- or Sony should have stopped all first party efforts with the original Killzone, back in 2003.

What double standard, exactly?

Regardless- Sunset does not count in this discussion, because this is a discussion about first party games. It doesn't count, like Bayonetta 2 or Monster Hunter 3 wouldn't count as Nintendo games.

Well thank you, sir.

The smear campaign is real.

Does Sony offer both a realistic and arcade racer (Forza and Forza Horizon) ? Nope

Does Sony offer a RTS on their console (Halo Wars) ? Nope

Does Sony offer open world kill fests (Dead Rising 3, Sunset Overdrive) ? Nope

Both lack variety if I'm honest. But at least MS is trying to make up for all those crappy years under Don Mattrick.

Remember Don Mattrick killing off first and second party ? Yeah, that's part of the reason why Xbox is lacking variety and games at the moment.

Sony simply has more first party ?

Same with your other thread.

So do we really need multiple threads leading to the same conclusion... that sony has more first party.

It's pure logic that more first party > more games and more genres.

Not at all. Nintendo has the most first party. And yet they have the least games.

I edited my post with Dead Rising and Sunset overdrive but see that those don't count... but I addressed that if you want to read :)

Playstation 4 doesn't have Wipeout though. Wish that it did :/

All it has for now is Driveclub.

You are wrong.

Right now Wii U has more first party exclusives than either Xbox or Playstation.

Dead Rising is a Capcom IP, and Sunset an Insomniac one, so yeah, they don't count!

PS4 does not- Sony does. WipEout is an IP Sony has confirmed it wants to bring to the PS4 in the future at some point in time ('never say never,' they said) so there's hope yet. PS4 also has Gran Turismo coming up. And yeah, DriveClub.

And less games overall. Your statement, to which I responded said this:

And I refuted that by bringing up Wii U.

Quite telling for the Playstation 4 if I do say so myself.

It's not really that hard to attack the PS4, but you seem to go out of your way attacking the Xbox.

Telling you: the fault lies with that Don Mattrick killing off first and second party, not believing in exclusives selling consoles (aka that's called being a doofus)

Sure, that's the reason, but that's not what I care about for now. I credit Spencer with turning the Xbox One around, but for now it remains a thoroughly unappealing product.

I see no fault written there. We were talking about more first party games after all.

You twist it into something else... more games in total. That's not what we were talking about ;)

Yeah, same with the PS4. See my "PC had 4 AAA games in about 2 months time" thread

We completely agree :)