Why is there such a complete lack of diversity and effort in Microsoft's Xbox first party?

Ah, I see. I did misunderstand.

In which case, I wish to point out this is the first thread I have made discussing specifically the breadth of both manufacturers' first party, and first party only. It does not have any overlap with the previous thread, beyond the same pervasive trend of the Xbox One having less games than the PS4.

Man Char really started the year guns blazing.

Do you agree with my statement then ?

Sony used to provide for both a handheld AND home console platform (which I do want to remind you: Nintendo still does that)

Now they switched ALL their first and second party over to ONE system: the Playstation 4. Undoubtedly this will cause more first and second party to appear on that platform, also leading to more genres being represented there.

I mean look at it this way: Do you think that if Nintendo were to drop out of the handheld space, NX would see more first & second party games and genres ?

Yes/no ?

You would have a point if you had evidence to back it up with, or you know, an actual point to make at all.

Absolutely, but:

• Microsoft also only supports one system
• This is not comparing the PS4 first party lineup with the Xbox One first party lineup. The thread title categorically refers to Xbox as a whole. The OP text categorically talks about Microsoft's Xbox first party lineup as a whole. Games from within the last five years from both console manufacturers (i.e. games including ones not on the PS4 and Xbox One) are included. The assessment here is of the Xbox first party lineup as a whole- not just as it has appeared so far on the Xbox One, though the Xbox One and the PS4 are, of course, the most immediate symptoms of both companies' stances regarding the issue.

@R4gn4r0k: sony has more diversity in their first party than any other company. God of war, resistance, heavy rain, uncharted, infamous, gran turismo, motorstorm, shadow of the collossus, ratchet and clank, littlebigplanet, ect are easily some of the best company exclusives and some of the best games of last gen. Ps4s first party is pretty lacking so far compared to ps3 though.

It's true nintendo has the most quantity of first party but definitely not the most variety. And most of their franchises are irrelevant, the only games to consistently sell and score well are animal crossing, mario, mario kart, Pokemon, Zelda and smash. Series like star fox, pikmin, balloon fighter, Metroid, fire emblem, golden sun, advance wars, star fox, f zero and others not even worth mentioning have never sold like the other franchises

This is also untrue: Nintendo single handedly covers the most genres of any publisher on the market (only Capcom come close).

• Kirby (2D Platformer)
• Super Mario (3D Platformer)
• Donkey Kong (2D Platformer)
• Yoshi (2D Platformer)
• Mario Kart (Racing)
• Super Smash Bros. (Fighting)
• Pikmin (Real Time Strategy)
• Fire Emblem (Turn Based Strategy)
• Xenoblade (RPG)
• Kid Icarus (Third Person Shooter)
• Pokemon (RPG)
• Animal Crossing (Simulation)
• The Legend of Zelda (Action Adventure)
• Metroid (Shooter)
• Splatoon (Third Person Shooter)
• Star Fox (Shooter)
• Picross (Puzzle)
• Nintendogs (Simulation)
• Wii (Party)

Just off the top of my head, and these are all 'active' franchises by definition.

@charizard1605: all I see is a bunch of platforming franchises and failed, irrelevant ones that can barely reach a million units sold.

@charizard1605: shoutout to all those nintendogs that haven't been fed since 2007....lol nintendo makes the shittiest gimmicks in the industry I swear.

1. This is not about sales
2. If Metroid or Star Fox or Pikmin are being discarded on the basis of their sales, how in the world are you counting Resistance, Motorstorm, or Shadow of the Colossus for Sony with a straight face?

Very few first party franchises reach breakout hit status- for Microsoft, those are Halo and Gears of War. For Sony, those are Gran Turismo and Uncharted, maybe God of War. For Nintendo? Mario, Zelda, Smash, Kart, Pokemon, Animal Crossing. At least. The others? All are mid to low tier sellers for all companies (the performance of the average Star Fox game is far better than that of MotorStorm or Shadow of the Colossus, but they're all in the mid tier bracket). Discarding Nintendo's franchises as 'failed' or 'irrelevant' on the basis of sales, but counting MotorStorm is absurd and laughable.

All of which brings me back to my original point- this was never about sales. This was about a show of diversity. Nintendo has Sony and Microsoft beat, not just in quantity, but also in quality. This isn't exactly something that's under question.

@charizard1605: there's no question, as most of nintendos franchises are not quality, they are simple minded shit. Nintendo is like the console maker version of activision or ea, they milk the same casual games for their yuppie casual audience.

You might want to check your facts on resistance and motorstorm, as both of those games sold more than majority of nintendos games. Resistance fall of man sold like 4 or 5 million copies and was a launch title, that's better than launch title of this gen, and certainly higher than a Metroid or star fox game, ever

I don't believe a bad experience did stop them from trying completely. Sea of Thieves is due to come out this year. And they did try to launch with Ryse as maybe their hack n slash entry. It was mediocre at best with a 60 MC score. But you have to remember you don't have an MBA from an American business school, nor are running an American Mega corporation. I understand what you are saying and you can hate them for it, but its the way they handled it. Accept it and let it go.

I just don't understand if you are creating this thread to ask questions pointing out what MS lacks and Sony and Nintendo put at their fore front because you really give a shit to own an X1 (again?) or you are really into just flame bait lately. Or maybe you just cant wrap your mind around the fact that the US corporate tax code is 73,000 pages of loop holes and write offs. No matter what the Xbox supposedly reports as "losses" believe me, this company didn't lose shit. How else does your almighty PS4 crush it in sales, they give their new OS away for FREE, and yet the MSFT I own is quoted at 41/share in july and in the 50s/share range now. All the while bucking the DJIA falling?

What are you really trying to accomplish with this thread? You don't care for the X1 and sold it. I understand I sold the WiiU in July 2013. there have been times I thought about buying again but to be completely honest, I cant justify it at the price they're asking for it. I don't give a **** about Luigi, Mario, Capt Toad, Kirby, Starfox or any of that shit. I didn't own Nintendo growing up so it doesn't resonate with me. Zelda and Metroid. That's it from that company. And playing Splatoon was a load of fun.

So I'll ask again, what are you looking for as an answer here?

Why would Insomniac do the port themselves when you just said they have never made a PC game? Pay another studio to do it. All indications are that the game did not set the world on fire commercially and I doubt Sunset Overdrive will be swaying many more Xbox One purchases so why not put it on PC? It would fall right in line with most other Xbox 3rd party exclusives....

@charizard1605: http://www.lazygamer.net/gaming-news/playstation/ps3/motorstorm-boasts-3-5-million-sales/

and thats from 2009.

That's more than any Metroid game I'l bet, and more or less the same as Star Fox 64 probably.

EDIT: found an official website with that number too.

http://www.worldwidestudios.net/evolution

It's just not. Read up on their forums if you want more info.

Lol, you Xbox fans really need to chill. What if Nintendo fans would rage everytime someone says Wii U doesn't have much third-party support. We don't claim that it's false and attack the TC calling him a Nintendo hater for writing something obvious. Just saying..

I really don't care either way. I was just saying it's a perfect candidate for PC port based the history of Xbox exclusives. Would PC gamers even be interested in a game like that? Maybe they don't see a market for it there.

@jcrame10: Resistance: Fall of Man sold 2.5 million. No other Resistance game cleared 2 million. The last three Resistance games, and all but the first Motorstorm came, flopped. Shadow of the Colossus didn't even clear a million. No LBP game has cleared 3 million worldwide. Kid Icarus Uprising has sold 1.2 million worldwide. Kirby Triple Deluxe sold 1.8 million. Fire Emblem sold 1.9 million. Star Fox 64 sold 3.5 million. Metroid Prime sold 2.8 million. Yet somehow, all of these games are flops and irrelevant, and Resistance and Motorstorm and even Shadow of the Colossus are hits.

Amazing.

This isn't even to mention the extremely poor attempt at trolling that was made. I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

I'm not sure. I don't know much about the PC gaming world. All I know is, fortunately or unfortunately, the game is never going anywhere else but Xbox One.

really, the sales figures are on the SCEA official website and you dont believe it?

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/xbox-one-being-outsold-by-wii-u-in-germany-32915826/#129

There was another one also about how Iwata lapel pins were outselling the X1 in France or something a while back LOL

No doubt, char is letting the towel drop as they say and showing that Sony boner this year.

@jcrame10: which sales figures are on the official site that you cited and I refuted?

@charizard1605: Agreed, I thought about that after finishing my reply: it got a bit confusing talking about individual consoles. But it was to bring context to the situation :)

Looking at all the fine first and second party that MS lost over the years: Ensemble, Bungie, Bizarre, Big Huge Games, ... It's no wonder they have difficulty catching up with Sony and Nintendo.

And I completely agree with you: MS lacks strong first and second party. But I like what they are doing this gen: they are getting back there. I see strong new IP like Quantum Break, and I see stuff like Halo Wars returning, which I never would've expected.

Meanwhile, PS4 may have a stronger first party. I do not like at all what Sony is doing this gen. They completely abandoned the Vita in favor of PS4, and over 2 years in now, they still have not provided meaningful exclusives. Switching over The Last Guardian as a desperate attempt to have more PS4 exclusives (while the game still looks like a PS3 game) felt like a dick move to me too.

I dunno, I loved Sony last gen (loved their push for new IP) and I hated MS (it was nothing but Forza/halo/gears). And now the tables have turned completely.

@charizard1605: SCE Worldwide: Evolution bio page states 3.5 million for first Motorstorm game. Its under the EDIT part of my comment, a few comments up.

http://www.worldwidestudios.net/evolution

Also, your claims about LBP and Resistance are wrong as well. LBP1 sold over 5 million copies, and by 2012 the franchise had reached over 8 million copies sold, with 60 million dollars in DLC.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-17-the-rise-of-sackboy-the-mascot-playstation-has-been-searching-for

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2012/01/26/fall-of-resistance/

Completely agree with you. Please see my last reply to Charizard as well, it has some of the same points being discussed.

I do think Nintendo is trying to bring more variety. See Splatoon this gen or Wii Sports last gen. Those were completely new things for them.

And when all the big blockbusters are cinematic action games, I find my variety in games like Mario, Donkey Kong and Zelda, hahahaha ^^

@R4gn4r0k: ya. i kind of knew the argument was over when he completely lowballed all the sales figures lol. and honestly, sony wrecks nintendo AGAIN when you figure how long theyve desparately tried to sell metroid or star fox and received little to moderate success, but then motorstorm (3.5 million sales), resistance (over 4 million sales), and littlebigplanet (over 5 million sales) all sold more on their first game than those nintendo franchises ever did.

and to think, the ps3 reception and reputation was HORRIBLE in 2006-2008 when these games launched, with a small install base (everyone knows MGS4 was what began to boost ps3 sales), and they still managed to sell millions of copies. where were all the nintendo fanboys back then, who are now praising splatoon for 4 milli sold with a 12 million install base? lolol

@jcrame10: Alright, I do stand corrected. The Wikipedia list is outdated, and that was the source I was using.

That said- these franchises that you are calling flops? They routinely sell over a million, sometimes 2-3 million, with ease, and have been doing that for decades now. There is no universe where they are 'flops' or 'irrelevant.' Mid to low tier, maybe, yes, but constantly successful. This is also ignoring that between Mario, Smash, Kart, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and Wii, Nintendo still has the most number of 'breakout hit' franchises on the market.

Finally, this all ignores the fact that a show of variety doesn't have much to do with sales.

Why is it unfair to include Nintendo?

@jcrame10: The first years of PS3 saw a lot of droughts.

I remember so many people on here saying "Just wait" that it became a joke.

It's such a shame Sony didn't learn from that...

I consider myself a Nintendo fan, but I skipped the Wii last gen. It was just not a very good console. Wii U may not have the sales of Wii, it's a way better console overall though.

@charizard1605: nintendo doesnt even have faith in those franchises, thats why f zero no longer exists, they wont budget for a AAA metroid title (that low budget federation force sure looks fun), and star fox is the same damn game as the 64 version but now with an added gyroscope gimmick. they have no faith in star fox after dumb peoples reactions to star fox adventures, so they are playing it so safe that they are literally remaking star fox 64 and calling it star fox zero (probably a company internal inside joke, as there is zero new material going into the game lol)

@jcrame10:

'and to think, the ps3 reception and reputation was HORRIBLE in 2006-2008 when these games launched, with a small install base (everyone knows MGS4 was what began to boost ps3 sales), and they still managed to sell millions of copies. where were all the nintendo fanboys back then, who are now praising splatoon for 4 milli sold with a 12 million install base? lolol'

I'm actually not even sure what your argument is anymore. Why you brought up Nintendo in a thread that was comparing Sony and MS to begin with and categorically sidestepped Nintendo is beyond me, but this bit I've highlighted? It's like some kind of extreme persecution complex against Nintendo fans that you're striking out against. Where were Nintendo fans back then? Not commenting on PS3 game sales, just as they don't comment on PS Vita or PS4 game sales right now? What is it that you are trying to say here, exactly?

@so_hai: Because they've had almost 40 years to build up a portfolio.

I have seen Little Big Planet 1 &2 sales listed as 8 million. 5 million for the frist game and 3 million for the second. Where are you getting your info? You are flat out wrong

Little Big Planet 1

"SCEE President Andrew House announced at Gamescom 2010 that the game has now sold over 4.5 million worldwide."[143]

Little Big Planet 2

In the UK, LittleBigPlanet 2 debuted at number one on the UK All Formats chart, then fell to number two in its second week of sales.^[88] According to ChartTrack, the original LittleBigPlanet sold 95 more copies thanLittleBigPlanet 2 managed at it debut week.^[89]LittleBigPlanet 2 remained the UK's biggest-selling PS3 game for two weeks in a row.^[90] In Japan the game debuted at number five, selling 24,648 copies^[91] and in North America it topped the North American software sales in its debut week.^[92]LittleBigPlanet 2 was ranked number four on NPD's sales charts for January 2011,^[93] selling over 353,000 units in its first couple of weeks.^[94][95]On Black Friday in November 2011, LittleBigPlanet 2 sold over 400,000 copies.^[96] According to SCE, LittleBigPlanet 2 was one of the most popular games on PlayStation 3 in 2011.^[70]

Wikipedia article with links that are NOT VgChartz. Whatever sources you are using you might wanted to abandon them because if you are that wrong about Little Big Planet your entire post is probably false and full of inaccuracies. You're dead wrong.

if you look at the sales of exclusives like motorstorm, resistance: fall of man and ratchet and clank future: tools of destruction, they all sold very well with all the hate back then against ps3 and low install base. but, maybe its like splatoon now; people were just desparate for something to play on their console to justify their purchase. really, looking back on it now, the ps3 momentum started in 2008 and really didnt stop until the ps4 launch (hell, last of us/ni no kuni/tales of xillia 2/god of war ascension/beyond two souls all launched in 2013 while the wii and xbox 360 ate shit)

i like nintendo too, but i really only care for zelda and fire emblem at this point as everything else is so overdone and not interesting to me anymore. its probably because, to me, zelda and fire emblem are their only franchises with any actual depth that have room to develop and grow without getting too stale. i loved the gamecube though. had a lot of great games. I currently own a SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, and 3DS on the nintendo side of consoles and handhelds.

And now we're back to trolling. And also to missing the point entirely.

Of course, said point was tangential to begin with and seems to have been brought about by some bizarre persecution complex that you seem to hold against Nintendo fans (why else even bring Nintendo up? Not to mention your own comments make this insecurity very clear).

Good going.

@StrongBlackVine: yeah, already admitted that in a later post. My source was severely outdated.

@StrongBlackVine: if you're looking for a source that's not VG chartz or wikipedia on LBP:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-17-the-rise-of-sackboy-the-mascot-playstation-has-been-searching-for

nintendo was mentioned in the main thread and was brought up long before i entered this conversation.

Nintendo's first party diversity nor quality was never a quality of discussion- the one time it was brought up before, on the first page, I did not respond to that line of discussion. Nintendo's finances were discussed, as were Nintendo's systems, but that was more to do with tangential points relating to Microsoft's first party performance.

No, in this thread made to discuss Sony's great first party showing and Microsoft's rather poor one in terms of first party diversity, this was the first time someone attempted to bring in Nintendo:

The amazing thing? The only relevant part of this discussion to the topic at hand (bolded) was disproven in the next post itself:

You never attempted to argue this point, because you cannot argue this point. Instead, the goalposts were somehow mysteriously shifted to discuss sales (and your own opinion on Nintendo games), when sales are not the point of this thread, and Nintendo games weren't even included in the discussion. The thread was a simple- between Sony and MS, who has more franchises? Who has more genres represented? Sales and your opinion of Nintendo games, not to mention Nintendo games themselves, are entirely off topic.

@charizard1605: i think my next comment was something about mostly platformers. that list does not have a variety of genres. for example, joe smith could look at that shelf of games and be looking for something like an mmo, or a detailed story game, or even something as petty as a realistic art style.

You counted the platformers, and dismissed all games that were not platformers on the basis of sales.

@charizard1605:

• Mario Kart (Racing)
• Super Smash Bros. (Fighting)
• Pikmin (Real Time Strategy)
• Fire Emblem (Turn Based Strategy)
• Xenoblade (RPG)
• Kid Icarus (Third Person Shooter)
• Pokemon (RPG)
• Animal Crossing (Simulation)
• The Legend of Zelda (Action Adventure)
• Metroid (Shooter)
• Splatoon (Third Person Shooter)
• Star Fox (Shooter)
• Picross (Puzzle)
• Nintendogs (Simulation)
• Wii (Party)

So 15. Really you should take away Kid Icarus, Metroid, Picross, Wii Party and Nintendogs though. Those franchises have as much chance of being relevant now as Resistance or Motorstorm.

@charizard1605: replace the word "relevant" with your original word "active" I guess

I dunno man, what's yours regarding the PS4?

I dont understand how someone who is such an obvious troll can be a moderator here... and I would say that regardless of which system they had a rage against

@regnaston: because it's SW, anything goes remember?

Lol at this thread. Ive never seems a system with so many games as PS4 and have them all be uninteresting garbage. Half the stuff listed in the OP is crappy games imo. Maybe for a console only player it seems great...

Xbox games a pretty bad too, but at least Xbox has a good online shooter.

Both the major consoles this gen (Xbox one and pa4) are play it safe horse-s***. Defending one while criticizing the other is laughable.