Why is there such a complete lack of diversity and effort in Microsoft's Xbox first party?

I would agree with you, if an obvious troll had been a moderator.

Happily that doesn't seem to be the case.

Uninteresting garbage is solely down to the individual and not a widely agreed on fact.

@naughtyottsel: hold on stop the presses, someone's opinion is not a widely agreed fact????

@achilles614: I know right?!?!

but in all seriousness, lems demanded on Char's indisputable list that everything there was opinion, just making sure the same applies here.

Wow dude I didn't know that. I really enjoyed the Resistance series. I really liked the PSP one and one of my Vita games is Burning Skies which I liked. That's surprising numbers. Resistance 3 was a great game along with 2 imo.

@naughtyottsel: fair enough. It just seems like (from an outsiders perspective as some who doesn't give s crap about which console is better) the supposed advantages of ps4 are incredibly overblown (to piss off NyaDC?) . Been trying to convince myself to get one but just can't, looks like more of the same from what I already have.

I guess this stuff matters more if you can only own one or two consoles and absolutely have to convince everyone else that you made the right choice.

This is an excellent question, and I apologize for having taken a while to answer it. I will attempt to answer to answer you paragraph by paragraph.

1) There is one issue with naming Sea of Thieves, ReCore, Quantum Break, and Scalebound- they are coming now. For ten years, from 2007-2016, Microsoft should have been involved in consolidating and expanding their first party. Instead they did the opposite. It is not to my liking, and this ten year gap clearly did not work in their favor- as evidenced by their scramble to procure in house exclusives now. Microsoft are doing an exemplary job going forward- but they lost 10 years where they could have built up their first party, cultivated other IP, revived Rare franchises. This would have had three effects- they get access to Rare's massive back catalog, they get multiple new IPs that expand beyond their traditional audience, and since they are cycling between so many IPs, Halo, Forza, Gears, and Fable don't feel as stale as they do now, when they have basically been getting a release all too frequently (in Forza's case, once a year!)

2) I am as a matter of fact looking to point out deficiencies in Microsoft's strategy, that is not something I have exactly shied away from admitting (I flat out said it to NyaDC). I never brought Nintendo up- that would have been unfair, since Nintendo have a three decade lead on Microsoft. In the interests of fairness, I kept it to Sony and MS- I even compared MS now with Sony 16 years in. The comparison is unflattering to MS still. Why am I doing this? Because I was looking into getting an Xbox One (and I still will, if ReCore is good, and if not, when ScaleBound comes out), and the disparity struck me. It's absurd. And this is System Wars. This is the kind of thing this board is for. We compare systems- I'm comparing systems. And one thing that I think a lot of Xbox fans forget- at least I am not trolling, flaming, or hit and run posting. The general quality of discourse, discussion, and posting on System Wars is low. Most posts usually wind up being 'lolXbox,' or 'Xboned' or '900p, doooomed!' My threads, hate them as much as you want to because they point out some very obvious flaws with the Xbox One very thoroughly, at least attempt to elevate the level of discussion with well reasoned and backed OPs, that also similarly prompt and force other posters to be equally thorough. I can understand irritation at my picking on Xbox One constantly- but dude, this is System Wars. That's what this board is. I posted a 3DS celebration thread today, and the first page is just pure shitposting. I didn't start tagging people and asking them what they were trying to prove- that is part and parcel of the forum culture, you have to go with it. At least I am trying to make people say something beyond just 'lolXboned!'

As for this- 'Or maybe you just cant wrap your mind around the fact that the US corporate tax code is 73,000 pages of loop holes and write offs. No matter what the Xbox supposedly reports as "losses" believe me, this company didn't lose shit. How else does your almighty PS4 crush it in sales, they give their new OS away for FREE, and yet the MSFT I own is quoted at 41/share in july and in the 50s/share range now. All the while bucking the DJIA falling?' I honestly don't know what to make of this. Did I ever say anything about the tax code? Did I even say the Xbox One is making losses of any kind, let alone Microsoft? Did I bring up the company's stock market performance? Did I ever bring up DJIA, whatever the hell that is? I don't know why you did. It is honestly very unlike you.

3) I've already told you what I am trying to accomplish with this thread. Incidentally, you can like Nintendo's games without ever having grown up with them, they're exceptionally well designed titles regardless. Anyway, that's not the point here, so let that go. You ask me what I'm trying to accomplish with this thread? I already answered this in point 2. In great detail.

I was wrong, actually- Resistance 1 has sold 5 million. No other entry has cleared 2 million. Resistance 3 I have heard is good, and though 2 got a lot of hate, I really like it too. Insomniac are good developers.

I feel the opposite, the PS4 usually gets an extremely bad rap when it involves games and you usually see NyaDC gloating about what he deems a bad game so it's just a change of pace.

I personally only regret my Xbox One, not because it's a bad console (it's not) but because MS has no plans to even remotely give me what I want out of a console that Sony doesn't already give me.

Hell the games I DO want are being put on PC, ReCore was my most hyped for Xbox One exclusive of all time and now I can just get it on my PC instead.

Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon are MS ips, they actually own them so that gives MS another genre JRPG

Neither have had a game since 2005 or 2008 so nope, irrelevant in this thread.

They are also inactive IPs, so they would not count.

@charizard1605:

You listed dead PS ips

For the purposes of this comparison, I have only considered 'active' franchises. Active franchises are defined as franchises which saw anew release in the last five years;

I have listed no IP, for any system, that did not get a new release in the last five years.

False, all of his listed IPs fall into having a release in the last 5 years and are considered active in this thread.

It's easy to tell who hasn't read the OP.

I understand it's long, but I've tried to format it so it's easy to read.

@razik: I don't think Microsoft owns the Blue Dragon IP. If so, they might want to do something about those two DS games in the series.

@charizard1605: Lets just hope he doesn't try to change the goal posts

@brn-dn:

MS own Viva pinata and it was also on DS

That doesn't matter, there were Banjo-Kazooie games on GBA after MS bought Rare entirely.

I will definitely credit Microsoft for trying extremely hard with their IPs this generation- they have some new and interesting stuff coming that skews outside their traditional audience. That's good, and if they can cultivate those games into franchises, even better. I do not understand your distaste for Sony this generation, however- the Vita's lack of support is unforgivable, I agree, but on the PS4, they are mostly doing fine. Bloodborne is excellent, and their upcoming lineup for the system seems great as well.

Apologies for the late response, this got lost in the kerfuffle in the thread at the time.

@charizard1605:

Why did you choose 5 yrs, what was the decision behind this

Because any game worked upon in the last five years (right during the console generation transition) has a high likely chance to be developed further on the present consoles, meaning it directly affects the current console matchup.

Based on the sales more people are playing Gran Tursimo so Forza hasn't dethroned anything or become the go-to for anything. It has just given Xbox fanboys a talking point on forums. Seems like less people buy it with each installment.

That's nice and all but exclusives are clearly not as relevant as they used to be for selling systems. Wii U sales are concrete evidence of this. The highest rated exclusives of any current gen console, but the lowest sales because the exclusives are all it has.

Great post char, as usual it is a pleasure conversing with you. I'll address the financial thing first. I was toying with you I fully admit. Because I just didn't understand what you want any gamer on this forum to tell you about the inner workings of the Xbox division. Nobody here can do it. I don't believe any of us are employed by them at that level.

I apologize but I haven't been reading your back and forth with Nyadc. (Bolded)

" but the amazing thing is it took them this long to understand this, when Nintendo established this all the way back in 1985-"-from your first reply to me in this thread on page 3. You did in fact bring up Nintendo, my friend. (underlined)

Our discussions don't bother me, on the contrary the excite me!! I love actually discussing with someone on here dude. 99.8% of the time if you disagree with someone its "you're just a butthurt Lem/cow/sheep" and gifs of licking tears and the usual baby shit. I mean just look at quadknight and I in your "Indisputable" thread. Guy had nothing of note to add when replying with me but insults that were incorrect and backfired on him. You, Stevo, Eroica, Heil, and others are the only ones I actually get to have these kinds of mind expanding discussions with.

I get what you're asking in this thread. I think one thing you are over looking is the fact that MS also introduced the Kinect in late 2009 iirc and sold over 20 million units for the 360, and added plenty of software to it. Did the overwhelming majority of it suck imo? Of course!! But it was making that company money, and as I said, whether you like this strategy or not, many American corps use it: ride that horse until it is a skeleton.

MS has been relaying on there most beloved franchise like Halo, Forza, Gears, and most major shooters, that are targeting for Westerns, not Eastern. Xbox 360 had great variety of games, it took time to get those great unique games into Xbox 360 but Xbox One however, we are into 2 years with Xbox One and there library of games is lacking and the PS4 has way more variety of games, but the problem is, most Japanese have pretty much giving up on Xbox One, Scalebound was the game that needed to most since it was unique and with it's delay, this is gonna hurt MS even more when the game should have been release this year, everyone [including me] was really looking forward to Scalebound.

Edit: But I must ask you this question Charz, are you interested in Quantum Break? Or any other Xbox One exclusive game you see other then Scalebound?

Resistance 3 is one of my favorite FPS ever. I enjoyed all 3 games. By the time R3 released the IP had lost all relevancy though. I think it did sell a bit over a million, but clearly not enough for Sony or Insomniac to want to continue it.

The same reason why they don't have exclusives until the last quarter of the calendar year. The people running XBox have a very specific vision for gaming which consists of exploiting a specific demographic of gamer that has the most disposable income. All while forfeiting the economy of mass scale or a strong global presence.

They found the dumbasses most easily parted with their coin and they don't care (that is, the gamer and XBox). It's the Lil Wayne of consoles. Hence, why they thought they could even get away with their original DRM or sacrificing game performance for television functions.

They really are dude. Me and Heil68 are huge Sunset Overdrive fans, in fact it was his GOTY for 2014.

Did Resistance 2 get hate? I don't remember either way. I just know I actually slightly preferred it as Sony's FPS to go against Halo even though KZ2 is epic.

Even if it were true, it isn't, why would it matter when the totality of the games available for X1 covers diversity from A to Z?

Oh that's right, when you have an agenda it's like that. :P

@cainetao11: Thank you, and yours was well thought out as well. I do hope you never take anything said in these discussions to heart- while debates on System Wars can get understandably heated sometimes, you still do remain one of the posters on this board whom I greatly respect, and enjoy conversing with.

Now, about the Nintendo thing- you are right, I did. However, in my previous post to you, the Nintendo statement was meant specifically with reference to the OP, which categorically sidesteps Nintendo entirely. Also you will note, when I did bring up Nintendo, it was only to establish a historical precedence to make the larger point that Microsoft has had enough time to learn the value of first party exclusives (and even then, you will note that in my next post itself, I say Nintendo was just used to establish precedence, and you are free to switch them out with Sony or Sega in the example instead). You will also note that Nintendo's first party has not even once been directly compared to Sony and Microsoft's in this thread by me unprovoked- as I said, I believe the comparison to be unfair.

I do consider the Kinect, definitely- and this is a counter point I was hoping someone would bring up, because I do in fact have a response to it formulated (and I thank you for being the one to raise this question at all). But let us, for the purpose of this discussion, consider Kinect a separate system (this is being done to absolve Microsoft of the responsibility of having 'abandoned' Xbox 360 first party support in the latter years of the system's life- no ulterior motives, I assure you). If we do consider this, we could, maybe, excuse Microsoft for having failed to develop their IP, if they were instead moving their first party studios to Kinect instead.

This, largely, did not happen. Rare, definitely, moved to Kinect, and Lionhead made a Kinect game too. But on the whole, Microsoft's Kinect published games are not internally developed- they were developed in association with other developers, such as From Software, Ubisoft, and Harmonix. Then, too, Microsoft did not own the IP to a lot of these games, meaning it is not a first party support situation at all as much as it is analogous to the situation with Ryse or Sunset Overdrive.

Equally importantly, let us for a moment consider that the Kinect did get Microsoft's bulk of first party attention and effort- as I said, I would hardly begrudge them trying to support their new 'system' with games. Alright, fine- but then, where did this support go? In that the Kinect was, originally at the very least, very obviously a crucial part of the Xbox One, and Microsoft's vision for the system, even after the DRM policies had been retracted, Kinect remained integral to the system for months after the launch. Prior to launch, Microsoft's internal assumption was that the Kinect was a fundamental part of the Xbox One- then why did they not move their Kinect first party development to Kinect for Xbox One? Why did they not use their popular hits from Kinect and develop them further on Kinect for Xbox One, to justify the camera's place and price? Why was it, that the only internally developed Microsoft game for Kinect for Xbox One was the (delayed) Kinect Sports Rivals, and nothing else? If Microsoft had indeed moved the bulk of their Xbox 360 support to Kinect, you would think they would have had the foresight/it would have been mostly easy to translate that to Kinect for Xbox One. This did not happen. Why?

Either because Microsoft did not move their first party support to the Kinect when 360 support was being withdrawn, and there was indeed that widely speculated contraction and downsizing of their first party efforts- or because they did not plan ahead if they did actually move to Kinect, they did not plan the transition to Kinect for Xbox One properly.

In both cases, this still represents poor first party planning on their part, so the complaints against them still stand.

SmearCampaign2016

Fact of the matter is there are 414 games available on the Xbox One plus the 130 backward compatible games and 600~ on the PlayStation 4, there's nothing to complain about either way.

Threads like this are completely needless when it's obvious that both sides are putting in an effort to please their respective consumer bases, Microsoft is just in a more difficult position and are doing what they can given that.

When threads like this come around it's upsetting, not because I believe or agree with what is being said, but because it's just so god damn petty and it's like people are always trying to take cheap shots at something which is realistically a good and well rounded console.

At this point the Xbox One has so little wrong with it it's like people just try to find any little thing they can to bitch about no matter what it is or how small.

I am extremely interested in Scalebound, very interested in ReCore, mildly interested in Crackdown 3, Quantum Break, and Sea of Thieves, intrigued by Halo Wars 2, and indifferent to Gears of War 4.

@nyadc: The day Xbox One fans start to count BC games to shore up the numbers of the Xbox One library is the day they are officially as desperate as Vita fans were, who started to use the system's compatibility with some PSP and PSOne games to beef up the numbers of games playable on the system.

Xbox 360 games playable on Xbox One are a great bonus. Backwards compatibility is a great initiative, for that I applaud Microsoft- but it does not replace new games. The fact is that the Xbox One, which is almost equivalent to the PS4 in price, is a weaker system with less games developed for it, or under development for it, is definitely a fact to consider and address. It is a point to raise. Trying to sweep it under the rug as though it is immaterial, and all is fine and peachy with the world, is disingenuous, misguided, misrepresentative, apologist, and fallacious.

Gave up halfway upon reading this thread.

Char, as someone who doesn't teeter on either side of the fence, it's hard to say that you don't have SOME kind of agenda at this point. It's a matter of consistency, and your hard on for hating on the One has been ever so consistent.

The One is still far and away from being a great console. Hell ever since getting a PS4, I've rarely used it. But you're tipping the scales here when you initially left some MS franchises out. You also say you're only listing active franchises, but include The Last Guardian for Sony? A game that we've seldom seen of since its initial announcement almost a decade ago?

The worst thing is that your hatred is largely theoretical. You don't even own the console. MS didn't rip you off directly here if you never embraced their product to begin with.

Personally I think the whole console war is a complete waste of time and a big part of the reason why gamer culture is such a joke. Don't fall into that crap. Come on mang.

I didn't know Sea of Thieves is an mmo, interesting.

Charizard, this thread sums up exactly why I was willing to buy a PS4 instead of an X1. We'll put!

No one is sweeping anything under the rug, but you need to realize nothing is ever going to be in parity in this industry no matter what, no consoles have ever been, and no consoles have ever shared the exact same number of games or games themselves. They both offer different stuff, different perks, features, layouts, games, approaches to the way things are done, it's Honda vs. Toyota. Now I'm not saying you have to like a Honda, but you don't need to obsess over it either or its differences with Toyota constantly trying to make some kind of a point... We all know, we're all capable of researching things and you don't need to go out of your way constantly with attempts to dissuade or instill doubt in peoples minds, because we both know that is the ultimate goal here, you don't do this for information purposes to help out the community, we're not that naive...

You need to stop trying to make everything seem so urgent, so bad, as if people are going to have a lesser gaming experience if they get an Xbox One, because if they like the kind of games Xbox is associated with they won't. Sony has a bigger grasp on the market for the time being, good for them, but that's not to say that what Microsoft has going on as well is any less important or people are going to like it less. My Xbox One is still my more valuable system as it's got more for me to do with and on it, and the games available for it have great levels of replay value and a lot have multiplayer variety, I can't exactly say the same for my PlayStation 4, most of the games are one and done and lacking in the multiplayer department.

Value isn't what's on paper, viability isn't what's on paper, they're what you actually get out of what is in front of you, and I own both of these things. I'm getting better value and viability out of my Xbox One, my usage ratio for it as compared to my PlayStation 4 is easily 8:1, and there is enough coming to keep me thoroughly entertained, especially with the multiplayer strengths in mind. These hardware difference, game counts, all of it, they don't really mean anything when you get down to it, it all fades away once you start playing a game and honestly you'd be hard pressed to really notice a difference anyway.

It's all dramatics, it's all a show and frankly it's getting tired and old... You need to chill out...

@charizard1605_

Funny how all these 3rd party exclusives dont count, there is diversity on the xbox but because for some reason its doesnt fit into your agenda you have made this 5 yrs and only own IPs count rule.

Youy say there is going to be a new wipeout, is there the only thing ive seen been mentioned is never say never on the subject, and there is no news on a new sly, so you presuming that there will be a new one is BS.

Why dont you include Sunset Overdrive? Becuase its not a MS own IP but its published my MS so it is a MS own IP. The same reason why you have included infamous, Ratchet and Clank and resistance for the PS4.

How about minecraft that is MS owned?

There is no denying the fact that Sony had more IPs and games but to say that MS has little to none is BS, Stop making " rules" to

The fact you are meant to be a MOD is mind blowing, the amount of work you but into the slating the XBO is amazing and put the well know cows on this site to shame.

Your house of cards is falling apart Charizard, people are really starting to see you for what you are and what you're doing. They thought that smear campaign thing was a joke but it's really not, you've always been transparent to me and you've gone off the deep end with this to the point that you're starting to look absolutely pathetic, and I'm happy to see how many people are finally calling you out for it.

Yeh Wii U really does show how having great exclusives doesn't make up for the lack of multiplats.

PC+Wii U best combo atm, most games and most exclusives

Because that is all I see: "upcoming PS4 games"

2016 looks great for PS4... but I bet a lot of interesting titles will be delayed too.

I really appreciate new stuff like Horizon: Zero Dawn. But it's too little too late for me.

Sony went the exclusivity route this gen, paying for exclusive DLC and exclusive features from games (something we saw MS do a lot last gen). And frankly, that's the worst investment ever IMO.

Yes, one needs a strong line-up of both exclusives and third party.

MS messed up last gen by going all in on third party and only having a select few exclusive franchises (Forza/Halo/gears). Many people got burnt on that and we see that reflected in the low sales for Xbox One.

Nintendo messed up with their relation to third party and so they have a lot of strong first party games, but barely any third party.

PS4 seems to be the best place to play third party games (if we leave out PC), so it's a very interesting console to a lot of people. But it's not interesting to me as I can't think of many exclusives I want on the system.

Taking PC back into the equation: it's easily the platform that dominates all others when it comes to a strong third party and exclusives. And it keeps getting more and more...

Brother, you can type!! That would've taken me an hour to punch out on the KB LOL

Yes you did say Nintendo could be interchanged with Sega/Sony. Got ya.

I am approaching 10 years of posting on this board and among the things I have considered "a given" is MS doesn't invest in owning studios. They clearly do not all that much. Another "given" is none of these companies give a crap about our definitions of exclusives or platforms. MS clearly sees the fact that a great majority of PCs are running the Windows OS so they consider it their platform. A few years back there was the "I'm a PC!" ad campaign and it wasn't funded by Dell, HP, NVidia, AMD or who ever. It was Microsoft.

I never have believed MS was using the best strategy in this industry. Never. I do however as a result of having been a series 7 registered broker from 1993 to 1996 an understanding of to a small degree of business. It seems now, many years late as you continually point out, MS is looking to adopt some of the tried and true old industry methods. I still maintain that they will never give much care to our definition of "true exclusive" and share games with Windows PC.

The Kinect, imo really fooled them om some level. I remember after the reveal, even Kojima was quoted as saying how excited he was about this new tech. But aside from the Gunstringer, Child of Eden and Fable Journey which all scored well and 2 I actually played and were fun, it just didn't stimulate the creativity of devs. But MS figured with it bundled in this would be incentive to use it more as every X1 owner would have one.

But they fumbled the ball, screwed the pooch with their horrendous DRM, always online, used game policies. Sales were respectable but definitely not enough to sustain that $500 tag. So, like Sony in 2007 removing BC from PS3 and dropping price to a $400 console, MS removed Kinect in order to drop price and try to move units as by now gaming media as well as us forum dwellers had made our mind up that Kinect was never going to be a mainstay of gaming. Its a lot of fun to watch my nephew and his cousins use, or my buddy Robin's parties when the liquor is flowing and girls want to play dancing games though LOL

Oh and never brother. Never will any debate or difference of opinion make me not enjoy your contributions, passion for gaming, and being my number one news source dude. I haven't been on PSN much last day or so, but I'll catch you there this weekend and maybe invade your FOB in MGS5 HAHAHA

I am going to copy and paste something here that I said to cainetao as well, about my apparent constant 'dramatics'

Why am I doing this? Because I was looking into getting an Xbox One (and I still will, if ReCore is good, and if not, when ScaleBound comes out), and the disparity struck me. It's absurd. And this is System Wars. This is the kind of thing this board is for. We compare systems- I'm comparing systems. And one thing that I think a lot of Xbox fans forget- at least I am not trolling, flaming, or hit and run posting. The general quality of discourse, discussion, and posting on System Wars is low. Most posts usually wind up being 'lolXbox,' or 'Xboned' or '900p, doooomed!' My threads, hate them as much as you want to because they point out some very obvious flaws with the Xbox One very thoroughly, at least attempt to elevate the level of discussion with well reasoned and backed OPs, that also similarly prompt and force other posters to be equally thorough. I can understand irritation at my picking on Xbox One constantly- but dude, this is System Wars. That's what this board is. I posted a 3DS celebration thread today, and the first page is just pure shitposting. I didn't start tagging people and asking them what they were trying to prove- that is part and parcel of the forum culture, you have to go with it. At least I am trying to make people say something beyond just 'lolXboned!'

The long and short of it is, the Xbox One (and any other console, really) will be receiving a good brunt of criticism on this board. That is the nature of this board. At least I try to do it intelligently. If, however, this kind of criticism is not to your liking, then I am afraid System Wars may not necessarily be the best community for you. Something like General Games Discussion may be more suited to your temperament- it is a far less antagonistic and hostile community.

I listed TLG because it is an upcoming first party game from Sony, and therefore I did feel as though it was relevant to the discussion. Except for TLG's comically famous protracted development cycle, I daresay there would not be much difference in including it or ReCore in upcoming games lists! With that said, TLG could be easily removed from the upcoming games list, and my entire point would still stand, with really not many changes at all- the upcoming games by number graph loses one notch in the Sony department, but that's about it.

Honestly, I have no agenda. This is the kind of thread I have made for a long time at this point- I do admit I focus on one system at a time, which happens to be the Xbox One right now. But generally speaking, if I feel a company or a product is not up to mark, I do call it out- much like I have been the Xbox One for the past few days. This is, of course, System Wars, and the purpose of the board is to generate discussion like this, after all. The one thing I can say is that I hold no real life ill will towards the console, and least of all towards Microsoft, at all.

If we were to start counting third party exclusives, the PS4 would clown the Xbox One. Regardless, this thread is about first party games discussion. Asking why third parties aren't being considered is about as meaningful as asking why a quarterback can't run down a basketball court during a game.

Sunset Overdrive is owned by Insomniac. At least learn about the companies you like.

Minecraft is indeed MS owned- but it is available on all consoles, even the Wii U, meaning it is a +1 to everything, effectively nullifying its role in this discussion.

Notice how I don't say MS has 'none.' I say they have worryingly little, but they are working on remedying the situation.

That's understandable. Hopefully my QB hype thread might change your mind when I provide solid full details of the game. Remedy has never let me down and remember that this is a new IP exclusive Xbox One game. Don't forget about Cuphead and Ashen are coming to Xbox One. [minus the PC version]

BTW your thread doesn't come as biased at all, this was well thought and interesting to read.

It's pretty hard to have intelligent discourse on the Xbox One with people who staunchly defended the DRM.

The fact of the matter is, there are a number of posters on this forum that have religious devotion brand names. It's rather unfortunate for these people that when companies make the type of blunders that Microsoft did with the XBOX this generation, it's a genie that doesn't go back in its bottle very easily.

So, yeah, some of said devotees will rile up other members every once in a while, but it's very important to remember who these people are. At one time, they were praying that people would just see things their way. They even fell prey to the hubris of accusing people that they just didn't understand the "vision". It all seems actually much more funny in the now, simply because we'd all be sitting around with our collective dicks in our hands waiting for the next holidays for our mana from heaven even if we did buy into all that BS.

So, here we are. That same dozen members are trying to paint Charizard as the next Shewgenja. When, we all know the score. XBox Defense Force will never be convinced that they lack direction or moral authority to make the claims they do.

This I absolutely agree with- I actually wrote an article on this a while ago, which I can send to you, if you would be interested.

As for sharing games with Windows PC, that I am fine with! It is my personal opinion, one I know a lot will contest, but in my experience, this holds true, that the PC market and the console market are still, in spite of a lot more overlap now a days than before, fundamentally different. Most people who buy a console do not consider buying a PC- therefore a game being on the PC as well will not necessarily be even a factor to them. if Mass Effect can be played only on Xbox 360 and PC, then a lot of Xbox 360 purchasers will absolutely consider it to be an exclusive- that is just how the real world works, our own little bubble on this board aside. It is a bubble I have been trying to pop with the metagame changes.

As for Kinect, I still do think it has a place- the technology is now sophisticated enough to allow for at least motion controlled party experiences, such as the ones you are describing, to exist in a more refined state. I would absolutely buy a Kinect if a new Dance Central was announced for it, for instance. Not for $150, goodness no- but maybe for $100, or $120 and a game thrown in.

And haha, man, I need to disconnect my PS4 from the network then! Not that I actually have an FOB yet

omg you old man, he's clearly trolling lol