WiiU (ZombiU), Witcher 2 (360) and Next Gen systems xbox 720 (FF15 Agnes)

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Nice article from digital foundry, here's another one from them...

MLAA's expensive computational algorithms have hitherto made it suitable running on PlayStation 3 only, with the super-fast SPUs working in parallel to process the image in around 3-4 milliseconds. But MLAA is now being developed for Xbox 360 and PC too in the form of Jimenez MLAA, created by Jorge Jimenez, Jose I. Echevarria and Diego Gutierrez. Jimenez MLAA runs on GPU, and there have been suggestions that the technique loses an element of quality as graphics cores handle somewhat simpler code than SPUs. The Jimenez team take issue with this and can point to the results seen in the video clips in this feature, independently generated by Digital Foundry on clips of our choosing, filtered with their code.mrfrosty151986

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digital-foundry-future-of-anti-aliasing

After that,

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies."

The results are.... both XBox 360 and PS3 fighting for second place and results are roughtly on par with each other.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

After that,

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies."

ronvalencia

The results are.... both XBox 360 and PS3 fighting for second place and results are roughtly on par with each other.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Exactly..... all through this thread you've complained about making comparisons with common assets and yet you bring up details and comparisons with so many variables and then try to use them. Any time Xenos spends applying FXAA/MLAA is time it's not using on making the games look better. With Cell doing FXAA/MLAA RSX is completely and utterly free to spend resources on graphics.mrfrosty151986

The results are.... both XBox 360 and PS3 fighting for second place and results are roughtly on par with each other.

Your fanboy claim is LOL.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Nice article from digital foundry, here's another one from them...

MLAA's expensive computational algorithms have hitherto made it suitable running on PlayStation 3 only, with the super-fast SPUs working in parallel to process the image in around 3-4 milliseconds. But MLAA is now being developed for Xbox 360 and PC too in the form of Jimenez MLAA, created by Jorge Jimenez, Jose I. Echevarria and Diego Gutierrez. Jimenez MLAA runs on GPU, and there have been suggestions that the technique loses an element of quality as graphics cores handle somewhat simpler code than SPUs. The Jimenez team take issue with this and can point to the results seen in the video clips in this feature, independently generated by Digital Foundry on clips of our choosing, filtered with their code.mrfrosty151986

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digital-foundry-future-of-anti-aliasing

After that,

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies."

MLAA targets a specific workload type and it's considerably less than comparing an entire game A vs an entire game B..

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] I don't see where it doesn't say it's not used either so I wouldn't exactly call that as definitive proof that it doesn't have HDR, would you?mrfrosty151986

But I am curious, is it Sony you dislike or nvidia? Or is it both?

PS; I also own

1. a Sony Bravia 46 inch HDTV (1980x1080p).

2. an ASUS G1S with NVIDIA Geforce 8600M GT http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/topic/22285-cant-install-any-driver-to-my-asus-g1sn-9500m-gs/#entry109697

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

The results are.... both XBox 360 and PS3 fighting for second place and results are roughtly on par with each other.

ronvalencia

Your fanboy claim is LOL.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

After that,

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies."

ronvalencia

MLAA targets a specific workload type and it's considerably less than comparing an entire game A vs an entire game B..

Jesus guys. Get a room.clyde46

[QUOTE="clyde46"]Jesus guys. Get a room.04dcarraher

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Funny that Xenos can process MLAA faster than SPEs. ronvalencia

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Proof?loosingENDS

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

04dcarraher

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

Indeed, but for 600$ you would also expect far better visuals

I will not even mention the one year later release of PS3 comparing to 360

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

loosingENDS

Indeed, but for 600$ you would also expect far better visuals

I will not even mention the one year later release of PS3 comparing to 360

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

loosingENDS

Indeed, but for 600$ you would also expect far better visuals

I will not even mention the one year later release of PS3 comparing to 360

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Proof?loosingENDS

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

Note that PS3's PCB has additional 72 bit traces for XDR(1) on top of 128 bit traces for GDDR3. PS3's PCB has higher quality than Xbox 360.

1. http://www.rambus.com/de/technology/applications/gaming/ps3.html

It's no accident that both NVIDIA and AMD has moved towards large scale SMT + unified shader enabled GPU designs i.e. AMD Xenos has superior bang per buck.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] I wouldn't count on it.... compression/decompression is not exactly a performance hog....mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Exactly..... all through this thread you've complained about making comparisons with common assets and yet you bring up details and comparisons with so many variables and then try to use them. Any time Xenos spends applying FXAA/MLAA is time it's not using on making the games look better. With Cell doing FXAA/MLAA RSX is completely and utterly free to spend resources on graphics.mrfrosty151986

MLAA targets a specific workload type and it's considerably less than comparing an entire game A vs an entire game B..

CELL's SPE would be inherently slower. It's load/store unit *is* CPU like (i.e. kitbash VMX unit) vs texture units from the GPU. The GPU has multiple load/store units in the form of texture units.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Surprise surprise another fan boy comment trying to come with an excuse, please continue.......mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] And you assuming it doesn't have HDR without concrete proof.... Fan boy...........

But I am curious, is it Sony you dislike or nvidia? Or is it both?

mrfrosty151986

LOL with "it Sony you dislike". You assume too much.

My last Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 based laptop i.e. Sony Vaio VGN-FW45

By asking the question, you have already revealed your POV.

IF NVIDIA RSX is on par with AMD Xenos, how come PS3 has inferior results with games that has very little SPU usage e.g. Street Fighter IV**. **Port of Taito Type X2 with 7900 GS version..

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

loosingENDS

Indeed, but for 600$ you would also expect far better visuals

I will not even mention the one year later release of PS3 comparing to 360

:lol:

Wow. Loosingends is really good at keeping threads alive.:o He changes subjects every few pages. :lol:

Wow. Loosingends is really good at keeping threads alive.:o He changes subjects every few pages. :lol:

glez13

I never changed subject, ZombiU graphics are ancient and last gen, even comparing to Kameo, a launch xbxo 360 title

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

LOL with "it Sony you dislike". You assume too much.

My last Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 based laptop i.e. Sony Vaio VGN-FW45

ronvalencia

By asking the question, you have already revealed your POV.

IF NVIDIA RSX is on par with AMD Xenos, how come PS3 has inferior results with games that has very little SPU usage e.g. Street Fighter IV**. **Port of Taito Type X2 with 7900 GS version..

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Proof?loosingENDS

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

Using the stripped down version of the 360 in comparison to the premium PS3, Nice! Never knew the $400 sku never existed.

I guess you are still cool if you bash Nintendo products.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] I didn't asume anything, that's why I asked the question and by the looks of it the answer to that question is Nvidia.mrfrosty151986

By asking the question, you have already revealed your POV.

IF NVIDIA RSX is on par with AMD Xenos, how come PS3 has inferior results with games that has very little SPU usage e.g. Street Fighter IV**. **Port of Taito Type X2 with 7900 GS version..

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

By asking the question, you have already revealed your POV.

IF NVIDIA RSX is on par with AMD Xenos, how come PS3 has inferior results with games that has very little SPU usage e.g. Street Fighter IV**. **Port of Taito Type X2 with 7900 GS version..

Inconsistancy

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] I didn't asume anything, that's why I asked the question and by the looks of it the answer to that question is Nvidia.mrfrosty151986

By asking the question, you have already revealed your POV.

IF NVIDIA RSX is on par with AMD Xenos, how come PS3 has inferior results with games that has very little SPU usage e.g. Street Fighter IV**. **Port of Taito Type X2 with 7900 GS version..

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-street-fighter-iv-article they are not on par.

We'll go into the differences in more depth in a minute, but the key change is that every single close-up sees the PS3 game dynamically downscale to 1120x630, whereas the Xbox 360 game continues to remain at the full 720p resolution.

PS3 version doesn't have AA. This is a game that was originaly running on Taito Type X2 with Geforce 7900 GS.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

By asking the question, you have already revealed your POV.

IF NVIDIA RSX is on par with AMD Xenos, how come PS3 has inferior results with games that has very little SPU usage e.g. Street Fighter IV**. **Port of Taito Type X2 with 7900 GS version..

ronvalencia

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-street-fighter-iv-article they are not on par.

We'll go into the differences in more depth in a minute, but the key change is that every single close-up sees the PS3 game dynamically downscale to 1120x630, whereas the Xbox 360 game continues to remain at the full 720p resolution.

Got to love Capcom too for sayng 360's CPU is about as fast as a Penitum Dual Core.... man that's weak!!! :lol:

And 360's version of the Sabatour doesn't have AA, PS3 version does.... you point being?

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] It is on par.... According to nAo... a developers who's used both machine over at beyond3d....mrfrosty151986

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-street-fighter-iv-article they are not on par.

We'll go into the differences in more depth in a minute, but the key change is that every single close-up sees the PS3 game dynamically downscale to 1120x630, whereas the Xbox 360 game continues to remain at the full 720p resolution.

Got to love Capcom too for sayng 360's CPU is about as fast as a Penitum Dual Core.... man that's weak!!! :lol:

Depends on those cases if they avoid Geforce 7/RSX design issues.

Test cases doesn't prove anyting when you have an entire game running on both platfroms.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-street-fighter-iv-article they are not on par.

We'll go into the differences in more depth in a minute, but the key change is that every single close-up sees the PS3 game dynamically downscale to 1120x630, whereas the Xbox 360 game continues to remain at the full 720p resolution.

ronvalencia

Got to love Capcom too for sayng 360's CPU is about as fast as a Penitum Dual Core.... man that's weak!!! :lol:

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] A multi-plat? Sheer desperation.... Developer at work...... http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=967689&postcount=74

Got to love Capcom too for sayng 360's CPU is about as fast as a Penitum Dual Core.... man that's weak!!! :lol:

mrfrosty151986

You do realize that RSX is not just a straight cut G70 don't you?

In the same thread, you have other developers disagreeing with nAo.

PS: I have already seen this thread sometime ago.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Depends on those cases if they avoid Geforce 7/RSX design issues.ronvalencia

You do realize that RSX is not just a straight cut G70 don't you?

In the same thread, you have other developers disagreeing with nAo.

PS: I have already seen this thread sometime ago.

Got to love Capcom too for sayng 360's CPU is about as fast as a Penitum Dual Core.... man that's weak!!! :lol:

mrfrosty151986

"Assasin's Creed Dev team said AI code is faster on X360".

And 360's version of the Sabatour doesn't have AA, PS3 version does.... you point being?

mrfrosty151986

CELL... I was talking about without CELL.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

Got to love Capcom too for sayng 360's CPU is about as fast as a Penitum Dual Core.... man that's weak!!! :lol:

ronvalencia

"Assasin's Creed Dev team said AI code is faster on X360".

And 360's version of the Sabatour doesn't have AA, PS3 version does.... you point being?

mrfrosty151986

CELL... I was talking about without CELL.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

You do realize that RSX is not just a straight cut G70 don't you?mrfrosty151986

In the same thread, you have other developers disagreeing with nAo.

PS: I have already seen this thread sometime ago.

I'm already aware of Heavenly Sword's NAO32/ LogLuv HDR(integer HDR). LogLuv HDR works fine on DirectX9c GPUs. LogLuv HDR method was ported to Xbox 360 and it works fine with it's MSAA.

Beside losing a few cycles, LogLuv Encode and LogLuv Decode shader program is simple enough that doesn't step on Geforce 7/RSX's design weakness.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

In the same thread, you have other developers disagreeing with nAo.

PS: I have already seen this thread sometime ago.

ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] nAo was at the time one of the only few that's coded for both machines and heavenly Sword was a technical marvel on PS3, 1280x720, HDR, 4xMSAA.... He knows his stuff.... ;)mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] I'm already aware of Heavenly Sword's NAO32/ LogLuv HDR(integer HDR). LogLuv HDR works fine on DirectX9c GPUs. LogLuv HDR method was ported to Xbox 360 and it works fine with it's MSAA.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

You do realize that RSX is not just a straight cut G70 don't you?mrfrosty151986

In the same thread, you have other developers disagreeing with nAo.

PS: I have already seen this thread sometime ago.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Now why would try and bring 360 into the fray again? Singing it's praises that it can handle NAO32? An Nvidia 6600 can run NAO32... it's nothing special.mrfrosty151986

It depends if Wii U selects Radeon HD 7470M level GPU instead of Radeon HD 7570M level GPU. Both has 64bit VRAM.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

In the same thread, you have other developers disagreeing with nAo.

PS: I have already seen this thread sometime ago.

ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] nAo was at the time one of the only few that's coded for both machines and heavenly Sword was a technical marvel on PS3, 1280x720, HDR, 4xMSAA.... He knows his stuff.... ;)mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] From one post, you praises it as " technical marvel" then later you stated "it's nothing special".ronvalencia

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

NineTailedGoku

Funny how superior the 300$ xbox 360 hardware is, when PS3 had a 600$ cost at launch and came a year later

Using the stripped down version of the 360 in comparison to the premium PS3, Nice! Never knew the $400 sku never existed.

There was never a "stripped down" version of xbox 360, all xbox 360s play all available games

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] It is on par.... According to nAo... a developers who's used both machine over at beyond3d....mrfrosty151986

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-street-fighter-iv-article they are not on par.

We'll go into the differences in more depth in a minute, but the key change is that every single close-up sees the PS3 game dynamically downscale to 1120x630, whereas the Xbox 360 game continues to remain at the full 720p resolution.

Got to love Capcom too for sayng 360's CPU is about as fast as a Penitum Dual Core.... man that's weak!!! :lol:

And 360's version of the Sabatour doesn't have AA, PS3 version does.... you point being?

In some test cases, RSX is faster than Xenos, but that doesn't prove anything.

Test case examples

PS3 is faster in Propagation and LPV rendering stages. This is for CryEngine 3.

4xMSAA... stupidly rare these days Native 720p rendering, again getting pretty rare these days Loads of on-screen enemies, animation physics...... And it was a first generation game.....

mrfrosty151986

Deferred rendering doesn't play nice with existing MSAA hardware, unless the user has the hardware with brute force performance e.g. Hitman Absolution PC edition with DR + MSAA enabled. There's a reason for MSAA being MIA.

You've said you've read that RSX Vertex thread, well read it again because there's quite a lot of information on heaveny Sword on there.....

mrfrosty151986

I don't need to read it again.