WiiU (ZombiU), Witcher 2 (360) and Next Gen systems xbox 720 (FF15 Agnes)

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] FP10 HDR has limits, some games show banding at those limits.... EDRAM ias quite possibly the most stupid design decision of any console released. Not a single developer has a nice thing to say about it, complaining about how it always causes problems to the rendering pipe line. It wouldn't of been so bad if developers could actually use it as a frame buffer, yet again another stupid design flaw.mrfrosty151986

There's more then one way to compress things.

It doesn't prove thing anything, since it's not a common dataset. Anyway, nice texture blur on the shirt.

3DC+'s main purpose to save bandwidth at a given image quality.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Well, RSX has it's own problem with the lack of 3DC+ texture compression support. ronvalencia

There's more then one way to compress things.

3DC+'s main purpose to save bandwidth at a given image quality.

And considering PS3 has more VRAM bandwidth I would say 360 needs 3DC more then PS3 does.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Doesn't seem to affecting RSX at all these days.....

There's more then one way to compress things.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] It doesn't prove thing anything, since it's not a common datasets. Anyway, nice texture blur on the shirt.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] I don't see where it doesn't say it's not used either so I wouldn't exactly call that as definitive proof that it doesn't have HDR, would you?mrfrosty151986

But I am curious, is it Sony you dislike or nvidia? Or is it both?

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Surprise surprise another fan boy comment trying to come with an excuse, please continue.......mrfrosty151986

You may continue with your subjective art comparsions.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Again, still not running common datasets for both platforms with the same image quality targets and artwork.ronvalencia

You may continue with your subjective art comparsions.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] They made no mention of HDR when they listed down other effects, but you claimed Killzone 2 having HDR without providing documentation..ronvalencia

But I am curious, is it Sony you dislike or nvidia? Or is it both?

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] I don't see where it doesn't say it's not used either so I wouldn't exactly call that as definitive proof that it doesn't have HDR, would you?mrfrosty151986

But I am curious, is it Sony you dislike or nvidia? Or is it both?

LOL with "it Sony you dislike". You assume too much.

My last Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 based laptop i.e. Sony Vaio VGN-FW45

But I am curious, is it Sony you dislike or nvidia? Or is it both?

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] They made no mention of HDR when they listed down other effects, but you claimed Killzone 2 having HDR without providing documentation..ronvalencia

But I am curious, is it Sony you dislike or nvidia? Or is it both?

LOL with "it Sony you dislike". You assume too much.

My last Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 based laptop i.e. Sony Vaio VGN-FW45

Which will never happen... but you may continue to cherry pick situations and dream....mrfrosty151986

You may continue with your subjective art comparsions.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Your not address your claims on Killzone 2's HDR fanboy.ronvalencia

You may continue with your subjective art comparsions.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Not really, that screen shot looks pretty for a machine that doesn't use 3DC+, even though they can use the Nvidia hack if need be.mrfrosty151986

3DC+'s main purpose is save and increase the effective bandwidth, thus running more of them.

Your screenshot doesn't prove this case i.e. no point of reference, no common datasets.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Again, you are assuming the existing of a hack.ronvalencia

No common data sets or proof? I never said that screen shot was proof of 3DC did I?

To say you read at Beyond3D you don't know a lot do you?

And no common data sets? Please... you sound like a fan boy playing a broken record.

You'll never get common data sets on both machines.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] The 3dc hack has been talked about over at beyond3d multiple times.... Pointless anyway as most developers now use a custom compression method that runs on Cell.mrfrosty151986

You have to factor in Xbox 360's eDRAM.

PS3 needs additional bandwidth for

1. transfering between CELL and RSX.

2. SPEs being use as a graphics processor i.e. due to the transfer action, data is not remaining on-the-chip texture cache or buffers. No sane GPU vendor designs their topology like PS3.

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-face-off

With the similar datasets, PS3's still lost against the Xbox 360 with bandwidth related workload target.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] You made the originally claim that it doesn't have it and yet all you have provided is a presentation that doesn't say it doesn't. The proof is on your head my friend.mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] 3DC+'s main purpose is save bandwidth and increase the effective bandwidth, so you can run more of them. ronvalencia

You have to factor in Xbox 360's eDRAM.

PS3 needs additional bandwidth for

1. transfering between CELL and RSX.

2. SPEs being use as a graphics processor i.e. due to the transfer action, data is not remaining on-the-chip texture cache or buffers. No sane GPU vendor designs their topology like PS3.

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-face-off

With the similar datasets, PS3's still lost against the Xbox 360 with bandwidth related workload target.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] It's not in the features list. ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Not really, that screen shot looks pretty for a machine that doesn't use 3DC+, even though they can use the Nvidia hack if need be.mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] And you count that as proof..... trololololmrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Why would they mention something negative during thier presentation? ronvalencia

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Again, you are assuming the existing of a hack.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Because it's a technical presentation that would mainly be used by other developers and other internal development houses at SCE so why cover it up.mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Again, HDR was not mentioned during the feature listings.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] The 3dc hack has been talked about over at beyond3d multiple times.... Pointless anyway as most developers now use a custom compression method that runs on Cell.mrfrosty151986

Xenos does it without compute consumption.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Still waiting for you to give me solid proof instead of your interpretation.....mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Still waiting for you to give me solid proof instead of your interpretation.....ronvalencia

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Any proceesor can emulate decompression, but that consumes compute resources.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Clear, avoiding the request... So I assume by that then you don't have any?mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] There's no menstion of it.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] They do mention logluv...mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Under Cons (negative) i.e. "Can use different color space (LogLuv)".ronvalencia

These interger ways of doing HDR have been dicussed in great lengh over at beyond3D and it's generally given they have the same range and limittion of FP10, RSX normally runs HDR in FP16 so in that respect an interger format equilveant would be limited compared to it's standard FP16.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] SPE's will churn though things like that with no problems.... stuff like they're amazing fast at.mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Xenos does it faster i.e. fix hardware function. ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Maybe a con compared to FP but it's still HDR, just processed and stored differently and is by no means inferior.mrfrosty151986

Does "Can use" equals "being used"?

Slide 17 just menstions "depth of field, bloom, motion blur, colorize, ILR"

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] I wouldn't count on it.... compression/decompression is not exactly a performance hog....mrfrosty151986

CELL is the ideal GPU and NVIDIA made a mistake in designing G80 lol.

Compresed textures's processing occures within the GPU and going outside this would make it less efficient.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] SPUs doesn't have ussual texture units.ronvalencia

CELL is the ideal GPU and NVIDIA made a mistake in designing G80 lol.

I wouldn't count on it.... compression/decompression is not exactly a performance hog....mrfrosty151986

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] The 3dc hack has been talked about over at beyond3d multiple times.... Pointless anyway as most developers now use a custom compression method that runs on Cell.mrfrosty151986

Surprise surprise another fan boy comment trying to come with an excuse, please continue.......

And considering PS3 has more VRAM bandwidth I would say 360 needs 3DC more then PS3 does.

mrfrosty151986

Surprise surprise another fan boy comment, considering PS3 is on record having blurry textures when running the same datasets.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Any proceesor can emulate decompression, but that consumes compute resources.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

Surprise surprise another fan boy comment trying to come with an excuse, please continue.......

And considering PS3 has more VRAM bandwidth I would say 360 needs 3DC more then PS3 does.

ronvalencia

Surprise surprise another fan boy comment, considering PS3 is on record having blurry textures when running the same datasets.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] SPE's will churn though things like that with no problems.... stuff like they're amazing fast at.mrfrosty151986

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Funny that Xenos can process MLAA faster than SPEs. ronvalencia

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

MLAA's expensive computational algorithms have hitherto made it suitable running on PlayStation 3 only, with the super-fast SPUs working in parallel to process the image in around 3-4 milliseconds. But MLAA is now being developed for Xbox 360 and PC too in the form of Jimenez MLAA, created by Jorge Jimenez, Jose I. Echevarria and Diego Gutierrez. Jimenez MLAA runs on GPU, and there have been suggestions that the technique loses an element of quality as graphics cores handle somewhat simpler code than SPUs. The Jimenez team take issue with this and can point to the results seen in the video clips in this feature, independently generated by Digital Foundry on clips of our choosing, filtered with their code.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digital-foundry-future-of-anti-aliasing

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

Surprise surprise another fan boy comment trying to come with an excuse, please continue.......

And considering PS3 has more VRAM bandwidth I would say 360 needs 3DC more then PS3 does.

Surprise surprise another fan boy comment, considering PS3 is on record having blurry textures when running the same datasets.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Proof?mrfrosty151986

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

MLAA's expensive computational algorithms have hitherto made it suitable running on PlayStation 3 only, with the super-fast SPUs working in parallel to process the image in around 3-4 milliseconds. But MLAA is now being developed for Xbox 360 and PC too in the form of Jimenez MLAA, created by Jorge Jimenez, Jose I. Echevarria and Diego Gutierrez. Jimenez MLAA runs on GPU, and there have been suggestions that the technique loses an element of quality as graphics cores handle somewhat simpler code than SPUs. The Jimenez team take issue with this and can point to the results seen in the video clips in this feature, independently generated by Digital Foundry on clips of our choosing, filtered with their code.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digital-foundry-future-of-anti-aliasing

After that,

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies."

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-mlaa-heads-for-360-pc?page=1

MLAA is a graphics problem and GPUs are designed to process graphics workloads.

Xbox 360's Xenos has 2.47ms range (with still a lot of possible optimisations to try) while 5 SPEs has 3 to 4 ms range.

ronvalencia

MLAA's expensive computational algorithms have hitherto made it suitable running on PlayStation 3 only, with the super-fast SPUs working in parallel to process the image in around 3-4 milliseconds. But MLAA is now being developed for Xbox 360 and PC too in the form of Jimenez MLAA, created by Jorge Jimenez, Jose I. Echevarria and Diego Gutierrez. Jimenez MLAA runs on GPU, and there have been suggestions that the technique loses an element of quality as graphics cores handle somewhat simpler code than SPUs. The Jimenez team take issue with this and can point to the results seen in the video clips in this feature, independently generated by Digital Foundry on clips of our choosing, filtered with their code.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digital-foundry-future-of-anti-aliasing

After that,

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies."