WTF is this "K2 is unrealistic" Talk?

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Slambo86

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#1 Slambo86
Member since 2009 • 912 Posts

Just because you haters don't prefer realistic shooters, doesn't mean it isn't realistic. (thats gotta be the worst attempt at bashing)

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

2. Games like HALO, CS, HL, L4D are NOT realistic. they are floaty unrealistic shooters mainly done for the fun factor. More people prefer games like those, because it gives you more control and instant reaction to your finger movements ,etc.THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND.

3. only reason people complain about controls is because its the first shooter to play with such realism and the fact people are used to quick and fast paced shooters.

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.

(waits for haters to post smileys with there replies to make up for cheap comebacks and excuses)

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Animal-Mother

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#2 Animal-Mother
Member since 2003 • 27362 Posts

I dont think any video game is realistic, Hence why there video games

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boxofwit

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#3 boxofwit
Member since 2007 • 947 Posts

For the most part I agree, however, Halo sould not be mentioned, since it's not meant to be realistic and you play as a supersoldier.

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Vandalvideo

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#4 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
Compare Killzone 2 to America's Army. There you go, you now know why it isn't a realistic FPS. By turn of the coin, most other modern FPS games aren't realistic.
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cainetao11

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#6 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38077 Posts

I dont think any video game is realistic, Hence why there video games

Animal-Mother
Seconded. Slambo when and where did you handle an assault rifle while wearing some sort of web gear? I did 13 weeks in my training and while there is weight to it in real life, KZ2 doesn't even come close to realism. None of them do. It's ok KZ2 can be your favorite and not have to be justified.
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habkeinbock

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#7 habkeinbock
Member since 2009 • 1189 Posts

shooter on the wii feel more realistic than the best looking shooter on the ps3 !

graphics cant help the ps3 here sorry

only thing that feels better is on the pc and its called novint falcon :o

really you should buy a pc if you want realistic stuff ;)

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nmaharg

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#8 nmaharg
Member since 2004 • 3285 Posts
How can a futuristic game ever be call realistic or unrealistic? All I know is the game is poor.
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cainetao11

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#9 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38077 Posts

Cool story, bro. :D

Aljosa23
My first lol of the day. Thanks dude.
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killab2oo5

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#10 killab2oo5
Member since 2005 • 13621 Posts
Sooo...KZ2 is realistic because the guns have "weight"? Lulz. I agree with Animal-Mother...most games aren't realistic.
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deactivated-59da85d821feb

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#11 deactivated-59da85d821feb
Member since 2006 • 2075 Posts
You think Killzone 2 is realistic? :|
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Chaos_HL21

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#12 Chaos_HL21
Member since 2003 • 5288 Posts

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.Slambo86

Today: No, In the past during WW1 and WW2 the guns have aton of recoil, I fired a 1917 Enfieldand that kicks like a mule. The M1 is alittle bit better, but still has a kick. Butthe US Military uses 5.56mm in the M16. That means low recoil. Since Killzone is in the future I am sure there would be less recoil.

Also todays guns are fairly light and not that slow at all. My FS2000 is fairly easy to carry around.

Most games are unrealistic, such as killzone 2, you get shot afew times stay behind cover and the magical healing faerie will heal you (she been pretty busy this gen)

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kkevguy47k

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#13 kkevguy47k
Member since 2008 • 900 Posts

i wouldn't call k2 realistic or unrealistic. it depends what you mean by it.

the gameplay is realistic(as a plastic controller allows). the effects are realistic(along with the graphics as a whole).

but its a video game, its not meant to be THAT realistic. 1. It can't be. 2. You don't want it to be because it should be fun.

but i agree with TS mostly, so yeah w/e

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habkeinbock

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#14 habkeinbock
Member since 2009 • 1189 Posts

Sooo...KZ2 is realistic because the guns have "weight"? Lulz. I agree with Animal-Mother...most games aren't realistic.killab2oo5

yes and real weapons in the real world now use auto aim :o

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whitetiger3521

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#15 whitetiger3521
Member since 2005 • 4686 Posts

Killzone 2 is overrated and I hated it

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masiisam

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#16 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts

The comparison might be derived from.... SOCOM is "more" realistic. ...GRAW is "more" realistic...OFP is "more"realistic....

Using these examples...KZ is not realistic ....does it make it a bad game?... no..

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lhughey

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#17 lhughey
Member since 2006 • 4890 Posts
the game is a sci-fi shooter. You are fighting against enemies that are not quite human. It's not meant to be realistic. Its like saying Terminator is realistic because they use an M-16 as a weapon.
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Wasdie

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#18 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

Play ArmA or Operation Flashpoint. Those are still extremely unrealistic and they are about as realistic of FPSs that your goign to get.

Realism = boring.

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SilverChimera

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#19 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

guys, TC isn't talking about the game and setting being realistic. He's referring to the physics in the game. no other game does what killzone 2 has done in terms of the realistic movements and such

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#20 heretrix
Member since 2004 • 37881 Posts

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

Slambo86

The game has no weight, it's just slow with a narrow field of view..And the game isn't realistic at all. But it's a game and that's ok. I don't mind defending the qulaity of the game, it looks great and it's a solid shooter, but it ain't realistic and the controls aren't all that great, imo. But people like them, so I can live with that.

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#21 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts

This game is entirely unreaslistic and the controls lead to me not having as much fun as i could. Everything thing about this game feels sluggish... or "weighted" buts its entirely the same thing, thats what they were going for. But alot of poeple don't like it, deal with it, its not realistic unless people still carry 60+ lb guns. You know those pesky wooden guns, but today's guns use mostly a polymer thats pretty light. And this woudn't impair turning so much, just aiming, i've never had a problem with iron sights in the game, its generally just walking and turning that feels unrealistic.

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GodofBigMacs

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#22 GodofBigMacs
Member since 2008 • 6440 Posts
KZ2 has the most realistic mechanics that I"ve ever seen in a game... the world really isn't realistic, but the weapons and mechanics are.
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Chaos_HL21

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#23 Chaos_HL21
Member since 2003 • 5288 Posts

KZ2 has the most realistic mechanics that I"ve ever seen in a game... the world really isn't realistic, but the weapons and mechanics are.GodofBigMacs

From what I played of the demo the weapons are not more realistic than other games. What makes them realistic.

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pyromaniac223

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#24 pyromaniac223
Member since 2008 • 5896 Posts
Killzone 2 is absolutely not realistic. Dead zones on controllers are not realistic. Other games are unrealistic too, but that doesn't make KZ2 realistic.
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NYrockinlegend

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#25 NYrockinlegend
Member since 2008 • 2025 Posts
I do agree that the game has a realistic sense, but much of it is really fictional. It's a sci-fi game, so it's not going to be completely realistic.
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Snagal123

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#26 Snagal123
Member since 2006 • 3524 Posts

Realism does not equal fun.

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#27 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts

forgot to mention, i know a few people including myself that don't like it when fps's on consoles use a kind of acceleration with aiming with the joystick. When you hit lift it starts a bit slowly and and gradually gets faster, I find it incredibly annoying if your trying to make slow aim adjustments, it sometimes will ramp up a little faster then i want. Something i'm not used and didn't like PDZ for, and i'm sure other people are in the same boat.

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#28 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38077 Posts
[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="Slambo86"]

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

The game has no weight, it's just slow with a narrow field of view..And the game isn't realistic at all. But it's a game and that's ok. I don't mind defending the qulaity of the game, it looks great and it's a solid shooter, but it ain't realistic and the controls aren't all that great, imo. But people like them, so I can live with that.

Exactly. There is very little realism in this game. It tries ti give a sense of realism, but it doesn't succeed as no games have.
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#29 sikanderahmed
Member since 2007 • 5444 Posts

Killzone 2 had laggy controls at the start which GG fixed so its ok but aiming is VERY inaccurate. Seriously dude when you aim at someones head, very stable, then shoot and miss 90% of the time then there is something wrong. I once shot someone on the head and actually headshot a dude who was 3-4 feet away from my target :lol: this doesnt even happen in real life and yes ive fired pistol and rifle

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NYrockinlegend

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#30 NYrockinlegend
Member since 2008 • 2025 Posts

KZ2 is not realistic because no weapons in real life have that kind of scope on the M82, and the weapons are just fake and will probably never exist. Nevertheless, "unrealistic" doesn't mean bad. In fact, alot of fun games can be considered "unrealistic".;) Even COD4 can be deemed unrealistic(auto-aim does not exist in real life).

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#31 gamewatereddown
Member since 2009 • 123 Posts

Just because you haters don't prefer realistic shooters, doesn't mean it isn't realistic. (thats gotta be the worst attempt at bashing)

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

2. Games like HALO, CS, HL, L4D are NOT realistic. they are floaty unrealistic shooters mainly done for the fun factor. More people prefer games like those, because it gives you more control and instant reaction to your finger movements ,etc.THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND.

3. only reason people complain about controls is because its the first shooter to play with such realism and the fact people are used to quick and fast paced shooters.

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.

(waits for haters to post smileys with there replies to make up for cheap comebacks and excuses)

Slambo86
killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake cant reload while running fake cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake. many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.
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Perception1

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#32 Perception1
Member since 2006 • 1010 Posts

I dont think any video game is realistic, Hence why there video games

Animal-Mother
That's just dumb, I can make a game where I can fly and shoot lasers and then make a game where the guns have recoil and replicate the damage in real life. One is going to be more realistic than the other. It's obviously not realistic as in comparison to real life but realistic in comparison to other games.
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swazidoughman

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#33 swazidoughman
Member since 2008 • 3520 Posts

KZ2 is realistic for a Sci-Fi FPS, which really isn't saying much.

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#34 Santesyu
Member since 2008 • 4451 Posts
Compare Killzone 2 to America's Army. There you go, you now know why it isn't a realistic FPS. By turn of the coin, most other modern FPS games aren't realistic.Vandalvideo
The same game if you get hit and stay down long enough, the game makes this horrible sound where you hear this annoying loud crunch and you instantly die? lol.
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clembo1990

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#35 clembo1990
Member since 2005 • 9976 Posts
KZ2 is unrealistic because it plays like CoD which is unrealistic in comparison to other shooters to begin with.
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#36 Fizzman
Member since 2003 • 9895 Posts

Yeah KZ2 is mad realistic. A gun may feel weighty to an average person, but a veteran soldier like sev who has been carrying a gun like that for that longdefinitely should not be moving that slow with that gun. Its a mistake just deal with it the game isnt realistic in any sense.

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pyromaniac223

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#37 pyromaniac223
Member since 2008 • 5896 Posts
[QUOTE="Slambo86"]

Just because you haters don't prefer realistic shooters, doesn't mean it isn't realistic. (thats gotta be the worst attempt at bashing)

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

2. Games like HALO, CS, HL, L4D are NOT realistic. they are floaty unrealistic shooters mainly done for the fun factor. More people prefer games like those, because it gives you more control and instant reaction to your finger movements ,etc.THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND.

3. only reason people complain about controls is because its the first shooter to play with such realism and the fact people are used to quick and fast paced shooters.

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.

(waits for haters to post smileys with there replies to make up for cheap comebacks and excuses)

gamewatereddown
killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake cant reload while running fake cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake. many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.

Stop making alt accounts. Almost everything you listed is unrealistic. Recoil with high powered weapons does not allow you to shoot while sprinting or jumping. You train to shoot with both hands.
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gamewatereddown

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#38 gamewatereddown
Member since 2009 • 123 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Compare Killzone 2 to America's Army. There you go, you now know why it isn't a realistic FPS. By turn of the coin, most other modern FPS games aren't realistic.Santesyu
The same game if you get hit and stay down long enough, the game makes this horrible sound where you hear this annoying loud crunch and you instantly die? lol.

america's army is fake as hell also. call of duty 4 is the closest thing i seen to real life shooting and i have been shooting real guns before i started playing fps.
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#39 swazidoughman
Member since 2008 • 3520 Posts

[QUOTE="Slambo86"]

Just because you haters don't prefer realistic shooters, doesn't mean it isn't realistic. (thats gotta be the worst attempt at bashing)

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

2. Games like HALO, CS, HL, L4D are NOT realistic. they are floaty unrealistic shooters mainly done for the fun factor. More people prefer games like those, because it gives you more control and instant reaction to your finger movements ,etc.THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND.

3. only reason people complain about controls is because its the first shooter to play with such realism and the fact people are used to quick and fast paced shooters.

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.

(waits for haters to post smileys with there replies to make up for cheap comebacks and excuses)

gamewatereddown

killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake

cant reload while running fake

cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake

if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake.

many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.

Levels in Kz2 wheren't designed for prone crawling anyway, and the cover system compensates for that

I don't think many people shoot while jumping in real life, and if they do I don't think it's accurate AT ALL.

Again, shooting a weapon while sprinting would be very innacurate anyway.

I'm pretty sure the gun just went from the right side of the screen to the left while leaning and hand positions stayed the same.

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gamewatereddown

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#40 gamewatereddown
Member since 2009 • 123 Posts
[QUOTE="gamewatereddown"][QUOTE="Slambo86"]

Just because you haters don't prefer realistic shooters, doesn't mean it isn't realistic. (thats gotta be the worst attempt at bashing)

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

2. Games like HALO, CS, HL, L4D are NOT realistic. they are floaty unrealistic shooters mainly done for the fun factor. More people prefer games like those, because it gives you more control and instant reaction to your finger movements ,etc.THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND.

3. only reason people complain about controls is because its the first shooter to play with such realism and the fact people are used to quick and fast paced shooters.

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.

(waits for haters to post smileys with there replies to make up for cheap comebacks and excuses)

pyromaniac223
killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake cant reload while running fake cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake. many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.

Stop making alt accounts. Almost everything you listed is unrealistic. Recoil with high powered weapons does not allow you to shoot while sprinting or jumping. You train to shoot with both hands.

Sorry kid i was shooting shotguns and ak-47's in real life before you even played a fps.
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gamewatereddown

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#41 gamewatereddown
Member since 2009 • 123 Posts

[QUOTE="gamewatereddown"][QUOTE="Slambo86"]

Just because you haters don't prefer realistic shooters, doesn't mean it isn't realistic. (thats gotta be the worst attempt at bashing)

1. The game has WEIGHT, guns sway and movement is heavier...NOT slow and broken, GG were going for realism..and they achieved this.

2. Games like HALO, CS, HL, L4D are NOT realistic. they are floaty unrealistic shooters mainly done for the fun factor. More people prefer games like those, because it gives you more control and instant reaction to your finger movements ,etc.THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND.

3. only reason people complain about controls is because its the first shooter to play with such realism and the fact people are used to quick and fast paced shooters.

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.

(waits for haters to post smileys with there replies to make up for cheap comebacks and excuses)

swazidoughman

killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake

cant reload while running fake

cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake

if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake.

many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.

Levels in Kz2 wheren't designed for prone crawling anyway, and the cover system compensates for that

I don't think many people shoot while jumping in real life, and if they do I don't think it's accurate AT ALL.

Again, shooting a weapon while sprinting would be very innacurate anyway.

I'm pretty sure the gun just went from the right side of the screen to the left while leaning and hand positions stayed the same.

prone crawl can work on any level.
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munu9

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#42 munu9
Member since 2004 • 11109 Posts

[QUOTE="Slambo86"]

4. If you have ever handled a gun/rifle (not that you should) Recoil is STRONG, the gun is slow and when you run or move with it, there is resistance and overall weight. K2 iS the only shooter i know that does it right.Chaos_HL21

Today: No, In the past during WW1 and WW2 the guns have aton of recoil, I fired a 1917 Enfieldand that kicks like a mule. The M1 is alittle bit better, but still has a kick. Butthe US Military uses 5.56mm in the M16. That means low recoil. Since Killzone is in the future I am sure there would be less recoil.

Also todays guns are fairly light and not that slow at all. My FS2000 is fairly easy to carry around.

Most games are unrealistic, such as killzone 2, you get shot afew times stay behind cover and the magical healing faerie will heal you (she been pretty busy this gen)

Well it's the future, maybe they have a lesser version of wolverine's healing factor? :P Plus they aren't just carrying gun weight, they're carrying all of their gear. Even now soldiers in war carry up to 40 pounds of gear
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swazidoughman

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#43 swazidoughman
Member since 2008 • 3520 Posts

[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="gamewatereddown"] killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake cant reload while running fake cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake. many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.gamewatereddown
Stop making alt accounts. Almost everything you listed is unrealistic. Recoil with high powered weapons does not allow you to shoot while sprinting or jumping. You train to shoot with both hands.

Sorry kid i was shooting shotguns and ak-47's in real life before you even played a fps.

Trolling =/= using weapons.

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SpruceCaboose

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#44 SpruceCaboose
Member since 2005 • 24589 Posts
Yeah, something about your siggy and the fact that you were Eyezonmii screams biased IMO... :P
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gamewatereddown

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#45 gamewatereddown
Member since 2009 • 123 Posts
killzone2 does many things wrong. you shoot ur guns with ur right hand pull trigger, but if you lean around a wall on ur left lol the guy will take his gun and put it in his left hand when ur leaning. that's fake as hell.
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pyromaniac223

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#46 pyromaniac223
Member since 2008 • 5896 Posts
[QUOTE="gamewatereddown"][QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="gamewatereddown"] killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake cant reload while running fake cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake. many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.

Stop making alt accounts. Almost everything you listed is unrealistic. Recoil with high powered weapons does not allow you to shoot while sprinting or jumping. You train to shoot with both hands.

Sorry kid i was shooting shotguns and ak-47's in real life before you even played a fps.

Mhmmmm, I totally believe that. You can shoot while sprinting, but you would sprint more slowly and would hit nothing. Shooting while jumping is tactically ludicrous, it destroys your accuracy and just leaves you as a huge target. You wouldn't even be able to jump that high because you'd be carrying seventy pounds of equipment.
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gamewatereddown

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#47 gamewatereddown
Member since 2009 • 123 Posts

[QUOTE="gamewatereddown"][QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Stop making alt accounts. Almost everything you listed is unrealistic. Recoil with high powered weapons does not allow you to shoot while sprinting or jumping. You train to shoot with both hands.swazidoughman

Sorry kid i was shooting shotguns and ak-47's in real life before you even played a fps.

Trolling =/= using weapons.

im not trolling kid's dont even know what real trolling is.
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swazidoughman

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#48 swazidoughman
Member since 2008 • 3520 Posts

[QUOTE="swazidoughman"]

[QUOTE="gamewatereddown"] killzone2 is fake as hell no prone crawl fake

cant reload while running fake

cant shoot while jumping fake cant shoot while sprinting fake

if your right handed you arent gonna lean around a corner on the left side and shoot with ur left hand fake.

many other things, WTF you talking about weight im not a fatass i can move easy in real life lol.gamewatereddown

Levels in Kz2 wheren't designed for prone crawling anyway, and the cover system compensates for that

I don't think many people shoot while jumping in real life, and if they do I don't think it's accurate AT ALL.

Again, shooting a weapon while sprinting would be very innacurate anyway.

I'm pretty sure the gun just went from the right side of the screen to the left while leaning and hand positions stayed the same.

prone crawl can world on any level.

not really.

You're either behind cover (using the cover system), or you're out in the open.

If you're open, you want to get to cover as soon as possible, to do so you sprint.

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pyromaniac223

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#49 pyromaniac223
Member since 2008 • 5896 Posts
[QUOTE="gamewatereddown"]killzone2 does many things wrong. you shoot ur guns with ur right hand pull trigger, but if you lean around a wall on ur left lol the guy will take his gun and put it in his left hand when ur leaning. that's fake as hell.

People do this in real life. If you only use one hand, then you expose yourself when leaning out of the left. It's not difficult to learn to shoot with both hands, and its very necessary.
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gamewatereddown

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#50 gamewatereddown
Member since 2009 • 123 Posts
[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"][QUOTE="gamewatereddown"][QUOTE="pyromaniac223"] Stop making alt accounts. Almost everything you listed is unrealistic. Recoil with high powered weapons does not allow you to shoot while sprinting or jumping. You train to shoot with both hands.

Sorry kid i was shooting shotguns and ak-47's in real life before you even played a fps.

Mhmmmm, I totally believe that. You can shoot while sprinting, but you would sprint more slowly and would hit nothing. Shooting while jumping is tactically ludicrous, it destroys your accuracy and just leaves you as a huge target. You wouldn't even be able to jump that high because you'd be carrying seventy pounds of equipment.

yes i can load a clip while running or take a clip already loaded and put into my gun while running, yes i can jump and shoot accurate not as accurate as me standing on the ground duh, but i could still hit my target. KILLZONE2=FAKE AS CRAP call of duty 4 is more realistic i swear to god it is and i swear to god i was shooting real guns before i started playing wolfenstein 3d in 1992 the people arguing against me havent shot any guns in real life, have no clue what they are saying.