yes the new tech demo has confirmed the ssd

The noise with DOA on Intel Z490 chipset is the lack of PCI-E 4.0 support.

I ditched my Intel X299 based motherboard due to stupid Intel RAID dongle. With AMD's AM4 X570 motherboards, I can use ASUS Hyper-X PCI-E 4.0 NVME RAID converter card (or similar to it) beyond RAID 0 e.g. GPU card on PEG_1 slot and Hyper-X on PEG_2 slot. Ryzen 9 3900/AM4 X570 motherboard build is part of my tax reduction situation within this financial year. "Business PC" is not a paperweight.

PC market has Crysis upgrade cycle when there's a good "killer app" reason for the upgrade.

I sold my two Haswell 4790K/4770K/Z87 motherboard/MSI GeForce 980 Ti Gaming OC based gaming PCs to fund Ryzen 9 3900X/ASUS ROG X570 Strix build.

I still have MSI R9-290X Gaming X OC, ASUS ROG x299-E Gaming, Intel Core i7-7820X, and Intel Z97 motherboard to liquidate which can fund another Ryzen 9 3900X/ASUS ROG X570 Strix build.

AMD introduced B550 with PCI-E 4.0 for the mainstream PC segment before PS5/XSX November 2020 arrivals.

I sold my Intel Haswell based gaming PCs to a small home builder to be turned into office PCs.

Yeah it really is quite embarrassing watching console jockey's try to talk tech when it's clear they don't understand anything that's being said or the implications therein.

Dude you know the reading speed of ssd is times and times lower than the slowest DDR memory. What you say is misguided. SSD can not operate as cache for rendering as it's too slow for that.

Well this thread was embarrassing to read.

@tormentos: high end SSDs nowadays have up to 10 channels. What you say that all PC ssds have only 2 channels is not true.

Even though the transfer rate of PS5 can reach 9GB / s, this is compressed data. Uncompressed data transfer rate is around 6 GB / s, which basically matches transfer rate of high end SSDs on PC.

@ivangrozny:

then hit sas which is 12 and lambo price ssd set up 40 to 48 gb a sec

Soo previously we had the magic power of the cell, power of the cloud etc etc this generation it’s the magic power of triangles I guess??:)

Keep in mind that Epic will probably be Sony's exclusive partner bringing their 1st party to PC.

type of fast storage is a gimmicky for games? thats like saying putting hdd in the ps3 and 360 instead of using memory cards was a gimmick.

:P

Thank you. :P I also advise not to read anymore posts from TC especially in this thread or you will keep doing it.

ok I looked more into it. ok yes the image does not go from ssd right to the screen. what it does is the ssd is used as ram pool keeping the data in the ssd and the gpu can bring it in at any giving moment. it's wired close to the pipeline so the data that goes through the i/o put goes straight to gpu frame by frame.

xbox took a low end ssd and made it run like a high end one.

sony took a high end ssd and made even faster. then they took out the bottlenecks of a ssd. so the gpu can take from the ssd in a frame by frame basis. the ssd like I thought is not doing the graphics the gpu is but by taking out (look at chart below) these bottlenecks the data can sit in the ssd.

in other words the gpu does not need everything around you loaded in. example your in the open word you come to a building that you can go into. that building is not in the gpu it sits in the ssd and loads in as your going through the door and the outside is wiped out. the whole inside of the building loads in as your turning in the game because of the fast speeds of the ssd being wired close to the i/o put of the gpu.

all this is done by getting rid of these in the ssd.

https://i2.wp.com/twinfinite.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/PS5-Screenshot-2020-03-18-17-16-39.jpg?w=996&h=560&ssl=1

ok guys this is what sony did to there ssd. I will stand by this.

ok I looked more into it. ok yes the image does not go from ssd right to the screen. what it does is the ssd is used as ram pool keeping the data in the ssd and the gpu can bring it in at any giving moment. it's wired close to the pipeline so the data that goes through the i/o put goes straight to gpu frame by frame.

xbox took a low end ssd and made it run like a high end one.

sony took a high end ssd and made even faster. then they took out the bottlenecks of a ssd. so the gpu can take from the ssd in a frame by frame basis. the ssd like I thought is not doing the graphics the gpu is but by taking out (look at chart below) these bottlenecks the data can sit in the ssd.

in other words the gpu does not need everything around you loaded in. example your in the open word you come to a building that you can go into. that building is not in the gpu it sits in the ssd and loads in as your going through the door and the outside is wiped out. the whole inside of the building loads in as your turning in the game because of the fast speeds of the ssd being wired close to the i/o put of the gpu.

all this is done by getting rid of these in the ssd.

https://i2.wp.com/twinfinite.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/PS5-Screenshot-2020-03-18-17-16-39.jpg?w=996&h=560&ssl=1

Been there. Xbox does have it.

Preorder cancelled!

no xbox took a low end ssd and made it run like a high end ssd.

sony took a high end ssd and made it faster and took out all the bottlenecks see my above this one.

sony gpu can take from the ssd frame by frame. meaning the ssd is wired close to the i/o put of the gpu and by taking out these (see below) to make this is possible.

https://i2.wp.com/twinfinite.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/PS5-Screenshot-2020-03-18-17-16-39.jpg?w=996&h=560&ssl=1

Yep this video just proves lemmings doesn’t know Jack S-“t about gaming,

And neither do I

If the ssd helps the ps5 so much why is the tech demo running 1440p/30fps ? Pc gamers have had ssd's for a decade now. Its not new technology and nothing new. Why is it now a gamechanger for the ps5 ?

ok I looked more into it. ok yes the image does not go from ssd right to the screen. what it does is the ssd is used as ram pool keeping the data in the ssd and the gpu can bring it in at any giving moment. it's wired close to the pipeline so the data that goes through the i/o put goes straight to gpu frame by frame.

xbox took a low end ssd and made it run like a high end one.

sony took a high end ssd and made even faster. then they took out the bottlenecks of a ssd. so the gpu can take from the ssd in a frame by frame basis. the ssd like I thought is not doing the graphics the gpu is but by taking out (look at chart below) these bottlenecks the data can sit in the ssd.

in other words the gpu does not need everything around you loaded in. example your in the open word you come to a building that you can go into. that building is not in the gpu it sits in the ssd and loads in as your going through the door and the outside is wiped out. the whole inside of the building loads in as your turning in the game because of the fast speeds of the ssd being wired close to the i/o put of the gpu.

all this is done by getting rid of these in the ssd.

https://i2.wp.com/twinfinite.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/PS5-Screenshot-2020-03-18-17-16-39.jpg?w=996&h=560&ssl=1

is this better? now you can see what sony did with there ssd.

by getting rid of the bottlenecks is what there saying is the reason that it's better than any thing the pc has.

With no ray tracing either

no ray tracing the fact is you xbox guys think it is the only lighting source that does this. why ray tracing when there using there own real time lighting? says it in the video

plus this was not made for the ps5. it just ran there engine off the dev kit with little optimization.

plus a team of 25 guys made this in less than 6 months.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/05/13/how-epic-games-is-tailoring-unreal-engine-5-to-make-next-gen-graphics-shine/

Interview with Epic, while they did mention PS5 directly (almost like they have been asked too). They also said features where available to other next gen and PC.

"The demo is demonstrating the highest level of quality, which is available on PlayStation 5 and other next-generation hardware."

"But it has major new graphical features targeted at a new generation of hardware, defined by PlayStation 5. These capabilities are also coming to PC and elsewhere."

"Nicholas Penwarden: Some of it just advances in the speed of the hardware, the CPU and GPU, as well as the new I/O capabilities of the next generation of platforms, allowing us to stream in a lot more data on the fly. One of the things that Nanite does is it only keeps the actual triangles in memory that you need around you. When you have scenes with tens of billions of triangles, it wouldn’t be practical to have all that data in memory at once. You need to be able to stream that in dynamically as the viewpoint moves around."

"In this case it’s the SSD and other hardware features in the next-gen consoles that enable that."

"We’ve been working super-closely with Sony for quite a long time on the storage architecture and other elements. It’s been our primary focus. But Unreal Engine 5 will be on all next-generation platforms, and so will Fortnite."

There is quite a lot of we worked with Sony there console is awesome which they would say if they have worked with them closely. However they also say the features demonstrated are coming to other next gen consoles (ie Xbox) and PC.

Kudos for Sony getting the tech demo out on PS5 and its pretty evident they cant mention Series X.

By 'you', did they mean TC and his fellow brethren?

Poor cows :(

Reminder, PEG version 3.0 is 16GB/s for each of the dual-direction or 32 GB/s combined bandwidthlink while PEG version 4.0 is 64 GB/s combined bandwidth link.

PC's Zen 2 with B550/X570 has direct PCI-E 4.0 PEG and PCI-E 4.0 NVME category which includes direct RAID configuration which can scale from one NVME (5.0 GB/s to 8GB/s) to four NVMEs (32 GB/s at 8GB/s each)

You're making the same "supercharge PC" bullshit PR as in PS4 (CPU-to-GPU dual 10GB/s links) when compared to PCI-E 3.0 based PC.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboard-Accessories/HYPER-M-2-X16-GEN-4-CARD/

256 Gbps = 32 GB/s with AMD B550 (assume AMD didn't disable this feature) or X570 or TRX40

128 Gbps = 16 GB/s with 44 lanes PCI-E 3.0 Intel "big" Skylake X/Cascade X on X299/X399 + Intel VROC. 28 lanes Skylake X is not enough. Desktop Z370 and Z390 are obsolete and Z490 is DOA. Intel is attempting to fast track Rocketlake (PCIe 4.0 support like AMD B550) release.

64 Gbps = 8 GB/s

32 Gbps = 4 GB/s

I dumped my Intel HEDT (high-end desktop) X299 due to Intel VROC PCI-E 3.0 issue.

There are cheaper ASUS HyperX NVME RAID adapter card clones.

All wrong..... All the SSD is doing is filling up the GDDR6 on the fly because there isnt enough system ram for vram available for the PS5 to store all the data needed to render everything there at once ....... PS5 can not use the SSD as vram directly its not fast enough..... Why do you think that PS5 is using 448gb/s GDDR6 memory for?..... Modern computing need more than 9gb/s compressed transfer rate for "ram" for gaming.

What is going to happen is that they are going to stream in the data needed on the go as the player progresses to save memory to be used elsewhere. This is where the SSD speed plays a role in keeping the ram full and be used as a virtual paging file to buffer upcoming data needed later on.

they did make the ssd have 12 tiers instead of 2 tiers found on the lower end ssd. the ssd coming out this year will be 10 tiers. getting rid of the bottlenecks that pc have today makes it fast enough. this is what you guys are missing in the deep dive. letting the data sit in the ssd instead of gpu. is it all the ram no.

but making it as close as you can to i/o put meaning the data stored in the gpu can know sit in the ssd and bring it in frame by frame. the video we got yesterday with unreal engine 5 they didnt have enough memory for all of the triangles on the screen so they used the ssd to bring in more frame by frame. these are there exacted words. this is not me saying this.

how does this work well we don't know yet but the fact is sony managed to do it. im think maybe 7 to 9 gigs of ram pool. im thinking that 9 gigs of data being thrown in and out of the gpu ever second or thats if developers are compression it. because the ssd is running at 100%.

the fact is xbox is using a low end ssd and making it fast as top ssd. which is still awesome but its just for loading.

sony used a ssd not in the market yet and got rid of coherence, lag, mapping ect. the graph i linked above. and using it not just for loading but for ram pool.

to make run at 100%. see a 10x faster ssd only runs 2x faster than hdd because of those bottlenecks.

every one keeps saying its not fast enough. well it really isn't unless you take out those bottlenecks.

oh wait sorry did not read the whole post. yes this is what there doing. but it also bring in structures like a fire hydrant so the data is not copied over and over again. ok the player can see this structure lets bring it in now instead of 20 min from now. the xbox will do this but not frame by frame. might be 20 before seconds instead but if you don't go there. in the game there it is wasted space in the gpu.

That's certainly possible but, their studios would first need to start building their games using Epics products. Bend Studio (Days Gone) is the only one of their studios that use UE to my knowledge.

I honestly don't see Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, or Guerrilla tossing out their toolkits / engines any time soon.

However, I do see MLB The Show moving to UE considering it needs to be cross platform beyond just PC.

@Nonstop-Madness: They don't need to use UE to sell Death Stranding, Horizon, etc, on the EGS.

The PS5 SSD is not doing anything special in regards doing crap that no other SSD cant do....... the difference between the PS5 vs XSX PC NVME SSD's is nothing you can see or notice when it comes "gaming" What Sony is doing is over engineering the removal of storage I/O bottlenecks that developers do not have to worry about compressing or decompressing data coming off the SSD to the CPU to be processed and stored into the ram for the GPU to access. They are using custom processors to do that work for the cpu instead.

It does not matter if PS5 SSD has 12 channels..... Sony had to use smaller slower chips to cut costs which gives you that weird 825gb of storage. While say the Corsair MP600 NVMe drive has 8 channels and allows 90% of same bandwidth of PS5 SSD but allowing a full 1tb or even 2tb option.

Sony used slow and cheap SSD chips in parallel to make 5.5GB/s SSD bandwidth.

all of sudden lems and herms have a concept of what noticeable and not noticeable lol.

Anyone with a brain knows that any noticeable graphical advantages got put to rest with this ps5 tech demo

i mean what more is there to notice ?

add this the fact that sont cares about character models and animations more than any other company and walah

sony will once again after the better overall looking games this gen

the 1st xbox had a noticeable difference and sony made sure that never happend again after

the 360 had a social advantage and now sony will never let happen again either

yall better prey there's a new bad ass ip in the works because that's the only hope lems have of MS giving a F about big time AAAs again

oh ok i see the new ssd that will be in the market this year will be the only ones capable to keep up with the ssd they modified in the ps5?

It does not matter if PS5 SSD has 12 channels..... Sony had to use more smaller slower chips to cut costs which gives you that weird 825gb of storage. While say the Corsair MP600 NVMe drive has 8 channels and allows 90% of the bandwidth of PS5 SSD but allowing a full 1tb or even 2tb option.

With SSD's you get diminishing returns once you hit a certain threshold. The difference between PS5 and XSX or even any PCI-E based SSD is nothing we will notice. Because 2gb/s+ is more than enough to keep ram pool full and the gpu to be satisfied. Even with MS Flight Simulator being how huge and detailed the world is only asking for basic slow SSD.

Sony's PS5 has effectively RAID 0 with slow and cheap flash storage chips.

PC market has relied on the larger economy of scale and tax subsidies.

XSX's DirectStorage API is coming for Windows 10 PCs.

i think the 825gb number comes from there using a 1t ssd but using some of it for there operating system. of course i could be wrong. sorry guys i know i look like a fool im just taking what i hear and try to make since of it. all I want to know why developers and epic are saying it is using the ssd to stream in more triangles. how is this done? how to take there info and make sense of it.

this is what i use system wars for but I see the info im getting from one person to another is just fanboy mumbo jumbo.

1. XSX's SSD solution is for streaming and loading. Hint: FS2020's ideal spec hardware requirements.

2. Coherence still exists hence why clearing GPU's cache lines instead of flushing the whole thing. Sony doesn't have visibility on XSX's custom changes.

For PS4, Mark Cerny talks about "supercharged PC" with two 10GB/s links or 20GB/s total for CPU-to-GPU links while XBO's CPU-to-GPU links are 30 GB/s total (runs into near PEG version 3.0 limit).

Hawaii GCN has the changes from PS4 GPU caches, but PS4 didn't exceed Radeon HD 7870 GCN's performance.

GPU invalid caches occur when GPU cache's address pointer's data has been affected by data load into memory with the same address pointer. The programmer can avoid GPU invalid cache situation when loading data into memory addresses not being in the cache in the 1st place. After the data is loaded, a pointer can be directed towards the memory address containing the new data.

The OS for PS5 does not need 175gb...... Even Windows 10 which is even more complex and open only asks for 32gb.... They will allocate some for features and virtual memory pool. But the size is from them using smaller chips in parallel to get the transfer speeds.

Its ok, at least your trying to learn and understand.... But dont believe the PR or Hype train about PS5 SSD is going to outclass any other SSD and its going to a massive leap that "enhances graphics over any other platform" ...

What is going on is that tech demo on PS5 is that they are saturating that GDDR6 pool of ram with highest quality assets. So what is going on is that they are streaming the data off the ssd to the ram pool to a degree that a normal mechanical drive would choke. This is what their showcasing the benefit of SSD's with UE5. They can keep the vram buffer full all the time and dump the irrelevant data as the player/npc progresses through the level.

What normally would happen is that they would have to predict ahead of time of what the player could do. Which means loading up on data and assets that may never be used. So what they did was preload everything possible eating into resources and ram. SSD's allowing more streaming in assets on the fly allows them to free up resources and ram to allocated to other things in this case higher quality assets.

ok yeah that is alot 175. what part i want to know is yes xbox is 2. something gigs and ps5 5.5 gigs per second. which will lead to little faster to load.

but the quote it's like comparing apples to oranges with the ps5 ssd to xbox ssd.

what makes the ps5 ssd that is not just faster speeds but what is it doing that xbox can't do?

this is what i want to know or is it just more pr talk.

Unfortunately the PS4 Pro has other bottlenecks that prevent it from taking full advantage of the SATA 3 interface. Test have shown it's not really any better than a base PS4 with its SATA II interface. I forget exactly why, it was a video by Digital Foundry testing SSDs in each PS4 model.

It's def better than either system with a regular HDD though.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/

Enter Xbox Velocity Architecture, which features tight integration between hardware and software and is a revolutionary new architecture optimized for streaming of in game assets. This will unlock new capabilities that have never been seen before in console development, allowing 100 GB of game assets to be instantly accessible by the developer. The components of the Xbox Velocity Architecture all combine to create an effective multiplier on physical memory that is, quite literally, a game changer.

XSX has the ability to address pointer 100 GB of data from SSD in a random fashion.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-glossary/

DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.

Xbox Velocity Architecture's DirectStorage API is coming to Windows PC.

My Ryzen 9 3900X's 12 cores selection is the brute force method without waiting for DirectStorage API.

Ryzen 9 3900X's 12 Zen 2 cores have higher clock speed and higher power rail limits (not gimped by Smartshift) when compared to PS5's Zen 2 CPU. PS5 needs to reduce CPU usage for 2230 Mhz GPU.

I have a budget for Zen 3 16 cores build to brute force the problem.

Actually no the transfer rates mean nothing when it comes to game loading times.... So the 2.5gb/s vs 5.5gb/s means nothing in load times. This will give you an idea, Doom Enteral on a normal 500mb/s SSD loads a level in 3.8 seconds, while a PCi-E 4.0 NVME SSD 5gb/s loaded that same level in 3.4 seconds. Your talking about over 4.5 gb/s difference in transfer speeds and netted with less than a half second load time difference.

What the PS5 SSD is doing more than the XSX is moving all decompressing and compressing all data/work from the cpu onto custom processors from the SSD. The XSX is doing something similar however is more focused on data related to gpu with compression and decompression vs PS5's all approach. Also coming up on PC Ampere "RTX 3000" will have NVcache leveraging system ram and SSD to augment the flow of data for vram along with using Tensor processors to further increase decompression and compression abilities.

ray traced lighting is more accurate and dynamic it looks superior while taking up significantly less file space. There are other things you can ray trace such as shadows, ambient occlusion and reflections. The fact that the demo has no form of ray tracing and is at 1440p 30fps says a lot for the capability of the PS5.

Not really......

Phison and probably some other companies as well have been working on new NVMe controllers for PCIe gen 4 SSDs for a while now. They are due to be available to consumers before either of the new consoles come out......

This is what we're talking about in PS5. New NVMe controllers to allow SSDs to take advantage of the increased PCIe gen 4 bandwidth.

There are other ways to push past that limit as well. For example putting 2 NVMe drives in RAID0 will double your write speed. You could do it today, get synthetic benchmarks showing 8GB/s reads and writes. Easy.

Sequential write is not the only SSD metric though. Loading games will still require random I/O, which is much slower. It's likely you will still see loading times on PS5 depending on how the devs design their games - or you might not see it because the dev has hidden loading behind something else. The high speed drives are meant to allow the game to be suspended and the memory dumped to the drive very quickly. Of course this will allow streaming assets faster, but I would bet a normal SSD on a SATA 3 interface would be sufficient for this. Remember that current game design basically has to assume an HDD because of 'modern' consoles.

So this is more like consoles finally allowing game designers to assume the user has an SSD. It should be a big difference. I've always said an SSD is the biggest upgrade you can make to the snappiness of your system. It was true 5 years ago and it's true for consoles in 2020.

OH ok this what I been hearing. not saying this is true but I heard that the ps5 has 800 of gb from the ssd for game assets. instead of 100 gb game assets. sony has not confirmed this but that is the figure I been hearing. the i/o in the ps5 is so close to ssd making less of a pipeline. if that makes since. im might be wording it wrong.

no it does not. there was all of that in the video with out ray tracing. less file space what? the gpu takes a big hit when using ray tracing.

FS2020 has "150 GB SSD" ideal specs already. 800 GB for a single game is bloatware.

can't be that then lol. i heard 800 for ram pool but that must be some fanboy number. like I said im not trying to be right im trying to get knowledge to be right. i am a sony fanboy but i need real numbers and real truth so i can get a better understanding what mark is talking about in the deep dive. there is a reason why he showed that clip where he says the ssd will load in assets as your turning or as your moving in a game. for the gpu to used to it fullest in your point of view. i understand that gpu been doing this for years scrubbing out textures behind you to add more from the view your looking at. i want to know why he is saying the ssd instead loading in those assets.