M or AO?

Kuro: It's ass.

KZ333: I feel no desire to discuss that film..

HAHAHA! No.

~Japanophilia FOR THE LOSE

Evolution was crap. About the reason I would even consider watching it after the reviews it has gotten, would be to see if the actress who played Chi-Chi (>___>) was pretty or not (I didn't quite catch a proper glimpse in the trailers)

(Vegeta) No question.

Gogeta in the movie (12) was pretty serious business actually. Unlike that GT waste of time. Vegetto's attitude was for screwing with Buu. They wanted to rescue the absorbed...without knowing about magical digestive enzymes that would split the two...

~Plus, Vegetto's attitude was good for the lulz. SS4 Gogeta's however was unfunny/childish. What else could one expect out of GT though?

MrStarkiller

GT Gogeta's personality was near-crap, no doubt about that. Movie Gogeta was cool though, he had Vegeta's no-nonsense attitude, which is great imo.

That is true. Though I wish they had decided to show more of the serious aspects of his personality, as well as him finishing Buu off quickly instead of seperating. He was crazy powerful. Him teasing Buu's appearance after burning off that tentacle-thing was lulzy though, as was the nose comment Kuro-Sama posted.

Meh, GT was alright, though I do wish they hadn't decided to regress Goku's body to that of a kid. Super Saiyajin 4 was pretty cool, and I did like Vegeta rampaging around and then promptly transforming into SSJ4. The whole Shadow Dragon arc was pretty good as well. The rest was pretty much low.

DP: You will regret the day you see any more than you have via the trailers.

'Hotness' of females can not redeem this. I have no attraction to asian women anyway.

GT Gogeta was trash in every possible way. Confetti. The 'true' Gogeta (also non-canon really but one can allow a few great characters post that barrier) was indeed serious business...a very nice mix of Goku and Vegeta. One who takes no issue with killing the bad guy, doesn't jabber on and absolutely wastes no time.

Vegetto fighting Buu seriously...would have been a rather serious mismatch...without SS it could have been rough...as Super Vegetto (Vegeta's idea to call it that no doubt)...it wasn't ever a real contest of power. At all. I'd have loved to see Kid Buu get his stupid little face caved in over and over by a superior foe. Gohan would be stronger than that punk....Buuhan would be stronger then that bratty pink freak. Vegetto would be his God. At SS2 (or even SS3), I have no reason to believe Vegetto wouldn't have enough power to crush even Omega Shenron. With SS4? What a joke. I doubt 'reality' could take it.

I have a lot of issues with SS4 being called SS4...and how it differs (practically mystic **** at that point) from the transformations of SS (SS3 was retarded too). There was no reason for Vegeta to NOT have had control out of the gate. It was nonsense. Goku being a big stupid ape is sensible because he's a big stupid ape (main character/star) who I could RAGE about all day. But Vegeta....not being able to control his Oozaru state? I wouldn't even see a reason he would loose control during the Super Oozaru. I don't see where this pink/red fur and other changes came from...if anything they should be back to their hair color or GOLD...

The whole show makes me angry. I recall (over 10 years ago)...looking up the future of Dragonball Z when we still hadn't seen even the Ginyu fights....it all sounded so great. Even GT. The idea of dark star balls wasn't retarded back then. Dragons for each one even sounded a little cool (I hadn't seen any yet let alone the crap they call fighting). So wishes create evil or some such crap and this 'Omega' guy gets all their power and is way beyond the power of all previous villains (the final villain was in the relics they protected which again sounded good on paper as it would give value to the balls before they had to get rid of them finally). Years later I catch glimpses but they're always the .gifs of the few good parts so I get a skewed idea of what to expect...then I see the Japanese show on cable...and it's horrible....later they release it in English and I begin seeing the story and fights....just aweful. What they've done is blasphemy. Every. Step. Of. The. Way.

The more I look at it, the more faults I see. I wasn't big on Dragonball to begin with..."Z" was where I connected to the series....I wasn't in it for 'adventure'...or 'humor'....I wanted ACTION. I'd take brutality where I could get it....and Vegeta knew how to deliver the goods. Villains too...usually. Of all the fools...at least Vegeta acted properly a good deal of the time. Cell even showed intelligence for awhile (up until he created a needless tournament when he had his perfection and total victory in the bag). Buu......the fat pink wad of chewed up bubblegum. Now we have magic in the series...and children who mock the efforts of greater warriors than themselves...Gohan....is now a total waste of space...even with greater power than Goku. Rediculous.

~As I said....I could really HATE forever...because I LOVE it so...

I think that Kid Buu as the last enemy in that series is just...

Anywho, Vegeta seemed cocky. He let Cell transformed, then Gohan had to finish the dirty work.

Gohan, against Cell!?

Anywho for a second time, I liked Goku vs Frieza. Epic battle. I dislike how Frieza came back, and Trunks killed him easy. By the way, any one watch the movies? Cooler, Broly - doesn't he have 3 movies?, Bojack, ect.

Dragonball, not good. GT, worse. Pure DBZ - the best.

And one last note - the games are getting a bit boring. Stale, in better words.

I have watched all of the movies. I can name them with #s and titles in order without looking it up.

I prefer them to the show because they're all the "good stuff" without the 6 episodes of "HURGGG I HAVE TO POOP" 

Gohan was a fool too. He wanted to torture Cell (and feed his ego after a powertrip). Goku's sacrifice was very nearly worthless...had he not done it...they would all be dead (No Buu at least)...by doing it as he did *see: retarded*..Cell returned stronger than ever (hax design)..and nearly won anyway. Goku had to force Gohan's confidence issues and 'weak' nature aside to get that chump son of his to grow up a little (only for Chi Chi to ruin it). Without the aid of all his friends... AND VEGETA ("Vegeta!?" - Cell)...he would have lost. The creator could have left it at that...passing the torch to a growing (presumably competant Gohan)...Hell...Vegeta could have eventually taught the boy a thing or two if they ever trained (without special circumstances, that would not happen).

Cell had those fools by the balls. At least in that story arc...I never had to tolerate SPIRIT BOMB.

Buu saga gave us Vegetto and Vegeta's return to grace (hating on Kakkorot). **** YEAR. Sadly it also gave birth to a lot of FAIL to go with it.

I didn't like the downplay of Freiza though I'll grant Trunks' SS (first) showing with the corpses being lifted away was quite EPIC...and for an instant...he behaved like his father (minus the toying around crap that can be a bother when his foe actually has a chance) by just killing the villains..no mercy. I'd LOVE to see how things would have gone down had Goku shown up...that trash. I still don't see why King Cold (looking to be in form 2 and certainly should be able to go beyond it *form 4*) didn't try to Transform...With such a power increase he would have raped Goku and Trunks...and everyone else. Though the typical fan would toss reasons why he couldn't (other then a acceptable reason such as NOT BEING ALLOWED THE TIME) do it at all..or how Goku would be stronger...which he wouldn't with such a change of power.

Cooler was actually pretty great...besides how rushed his fight was....so it didn't give the impression he was all that tough in his fourth form which sort of downplays the character. His lack of techniques was a bother too...Freiza just had so many tricks up his sleeve you had to admire the cruel (foolish) bastard even when he was being super delusional about his chances to win against a Super Saiyan. His freak out looks were THE BEST. Nobody showed fear like Freiza. Plus...he was brutal. First form Cell wins in terms of psycho absorbtion antics...the process of taking in cyborgs (androids) would be nightmarish for those involved. Perfect Cell...was an aristocrat bravado for a brute...just like Freiza but with less mincing.

I have all the movies on my exteral hard drive. Getting the first Ocean dub (English) for Tree of Might was a REAL bother..

Dragonball was okay now and then. At least Goku didn't get his panties all in a bunch over killing. GT...

They've been that way for YEARS. They've not really changed a whole hell of a lot. I got 'fake flying' back in Dragonball GT:Final Bout (first English release with unique dubbing *read: terrible*). Vegetto was a shining golden god. I hated SS4 Goku with a passion since he was well liked by others...and I felt nobody was on par with this cocky bastard I'd been playing with. "I only need my feet to defeat you!". He was no liar...My lvl123 Vegetto showed no mercy..due to the silly way their system worked...my Final Kamehameha was SUPER WEAK and my Folded arms (cocky) rising, altering kicks to backflip combo would INSTANT KILL lvl99 SS4 Goku in one usage....God I loved doing that....I had a mirror match that went on for 2 hours (AI vs AI). Just rediculous. Budokai 3 was good....but I've grown very tired of these fighters....they need create-a-character...it would be so EASY to create on for this series. Smackdown! did it by just giving us pre-created parts (of existing characters) and letting us mix and match. How EASY would that be to put in Dragonball? How effective would it be considering fan characters are typically just variations of real ones....often Saiyans...for a sequel, they could vastly expand upon it (like Smackdown! 2)...allowing more advanced changes to these parts (of existing characters)..perhaps including the tools for color changes, shape manipulation, Races, etc. It really would be a selling point. I'd buy it....just give me B3 exactly as it was (minus a few characters if need be)...and include that....I'd be ****ing set for life as far as DBZ games go

Z was where I started, and it will always be my preferred part of the series. Dragonball was decent, but not nearly as good as Z. GT was just plain stupid, basically the worst parts of Dragonball and DragonballZ were slapped together to make GT. While SS4 was sort of cool, I dislike how it apparently had nothing to do with the previous versions. It wasn't an upgrade, it was a totally different transformation, that would seem to have not required any previous SS forms. Super Android 17 was sort of cool, though it took forever to get to him, and then he gets killed pretty quickly. Most of the Shadow Dragons were crap. The only decent ones were Omega, and the twin fire and ice ones.

It did **** me off how Gohan was a total wuss before and after his SS2 transformation. Even when he got that Mystic boost or whatever from the elder kai, he got too cocky and let Buu get stronger, and thusly Gohan was never cool, or even really relevant again.

Similar to adult Trunks, after he killed Frieza and King Cold, nothing he did ever really mattered after that. And kid Trunks, total spoiled annoying brat. Goten, stupid, that is all.

I've seen all of the movies except for Bojack Unbound, I've been meaning to see it as it looked like one of the cool ones. Dead Zone was decent, as it was kind of dark and big Garlic Jr. wasn't too bad. World's Strongest was okay, nothing too bad about it, but nothing great either. Tree of Might was pretty good, Turles was ruthless and somewhat cool. Didn't really care much for Lord Slug. Cooler's Revenge, as MrSK said, he was somewhat cool, but didn't get much time to show off his final form. Return of Cooler, kind of cool to see Goku and Vegeta fight tons of robot Coolers, shame they were second to final form. Super Android 13 was alright, cool at the end. Broly, my favorite of the movies, and my favorite character, he was just so strong and cruel, played with them a little too much, but the ending was just plain ********, while it pains me to go into logistics over an anime, there is no way the little bit of energy Vegeta gave Goku would have made him strong enough to beat Broly, especially with one punch. Otherwise it was great, he had good lines, looked cool, and we got to see him kick the **** out of everyone. Broly's Second Coming, pretty good, would have liked more dialogue from Broly besides Kakarot, and his one good line. Decent fighting, but once again, a ******** ending that made no sense. Bio-Broly, moving on. Return of Fusion, Janemba final form was cool, and so was Gogeta, Pikon swearing and Gotenks scaring Hitler were also funny. Last movie, can never remember full title, okay, but not very good fights, and the premise wasn't executed too well.

Lord Slug is ****ing awesome. My favorite movie next to the first Broly. I'm not a big fan of the second Cooler movie or Super Android 13. Others are all about the same level of "ok." Except for Bio Broly which is clearly THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST

Edit: That's "ok" in relation to each other. They're all totally awesome in comparison to most things you can watch. 

Lord Slug is ****ing awesome.For some reason I never really liked it, maybe if I watched it again. My favorite movie next to the first Broly. I'm not a big fan of the second Cooler movie or Super Android 13. Others are all about the same level of "ok." Except for Bio Broly which is clearly THE BEST THE BEST THE BESTIf I didn't know this was sarcasm I would have been forced to strangle you through your monitor.

 

 

Edit: That's "ok" in relation to each other. They're all totally awesome in comparison to most things you can watch. True dat.

Kuro-sama

Boy, more people watch DBZ here than I thought!

Note: Why doesn't Gamespot say anything about DBZ: Burst Limit?

DP: You will regret the day you see any more than you have via the trailers.

'Hotness' of females can not redeem this. I have no attraction to asian women anyway.

GT Gogeta was trash in every possible way. Confetti. The 'true' Gogeta (also non-canon really but one can allow a few great characters post that barrier) was indeed serious business...a very nice mix of Goku and Vegeta. One who takes no issue with killing the bad guy, doesn't jabber on and absolutely wastes no time.

Vegetto fighting Buu seriously...would have been a rather serious mismatch...without SS it could have been rough...as Super Vegetto (Vegeta's idea to call it that no doubt)...it wasn't ever a real contest of power. At all. I'd have loved to see Kid Buu get his stupid little face caved in over and over by a superior foe. Gohan would be stronger than that punk....Buuhan would be stronger then that bratty pink freak. Vegetto would be his God. At SS2 (or even SS3), I have no reason to believe Vegetto wouldn't have enough power to crush even Omega Shenron. With SS4? What a joke. I doubt 'reality' could take it.

I have a lot of issues with SS4 being called SS4...and how it differs (practically mystic **** at that point) from the transformations of SS (SS3 was retarded too). There was no reason for Vegeta to NOT have had control out of the gate. It was nonsense. Goku being a big stupid ape is sensible because he's a big stupid ape (main character/star) who I could RAGE about all day. But Vegeta....not being able to control his Oozaru state? I wouldn't even see a reason he would loose control during the Super Oozaru. I don't see where this pink/red fur and other changes came from...if anything they should be back to their hair color or GOLD...

The whole show makes me angry. I recall (over 10 years ago)...looking up the future of Dragonball Z when we still hadn't seen even the Ginyu fights....it all sounded so great. Even GT. The idea of dark star balls wasn't retarded back then. Dragons for each one even sounded a little cool (I hadn't seen any yet let alone the crap they call fighting). So wishes create evil or some such crap and this 'Omega' guy gets all their power and is way beyond the power of all previous villains (the final villain was in the relics they protected which again sounded good on paper as it would give value to the balls before they had to get rid of them finally). Years later I catch glimpses but they're always the .gifs of the few good parts so I get a skewed idea of what to expect...then I see the Japanese show on cable...and it's horrible....later they release it in English and I begin seeing the story and fights....just aweful. What they've done is blasphemy. Every. Step. Of. The. Way.

The more I look at it, the more faults I see. I wasn't big on Dragonball to begin with..."Z" was where I connected to the series....I wasn't in it for 'adventure'...or 'humor'....I wanted ACTION. I'd take brutality where I could get it....and Vegeta knew how to deliver the goods. Villains too...usually. Of all the fools...at least Vegeta acted properly a good deal of the time. Cell even showed intelligence for awhile (up until he created a needless tournament when he had his perfection and total victory in the bag). Buu......the fat pink wad of chewed up bubblegum. Now we have magic in the series...and children who mock the efforts of greater warriors than themselves...Gohan....is now a total waste of space...even with greater power than Goku. Rediculous.

~As I said....I could really HATE forever...because I LOVE it so...

MrStarkiller

In that case, I'd rather not watch it, wasn't going to anyway, pretty much everyone says it's worse than crap.

To each his own again. She wasn't that attractive anyway.

True, which is why I like him as a character. If only he actually appeared in the series, that would have made my day. Gogeta SSJ4 having that personality would have meant Shenron's quick demise. Unfortunately the fool goofed around too much, and the only moment where he seemed serious was during and after Shenron's most powerful attack (Which somewhat makes him similar to Vegetto in personality as they both wanted their opponent to do a certain thing)

Quick defeats have a certain pleasure to them, Vegetto could have finished him off quickly no doubt, and I wish he had, it would most likely have happened if they didn't seperate inside Buu (stupid plot device to negate the permanence of the fusion)

Vegetto sounds a lot better than anything Goku/Kakarotto would have come up with. Gogeta could have been aname, but wasn't (the movie came out later iirc. Kakatto sounds like s*** (fusion names are combos, so that could have been one). Frankly no other name combo suits their fusion except for Gogeta.

Kid Buu was even more stupid as a character than someone like Bio-Broly. Goku could have crushed him, Vegeta's need to fight K Buu was stupid frankly.

SSJ3 is more likely, I don't think SSJ2 would have enough power. SSJ4 would most likely be God of that verse.

Vegeta never lost control though, he was just pretending to give the others a scare. SSJ4 was pretty nice, though the red fur was stupid, though it was nothing compared to the beauty of SSJ or even SSJ2. 

GT was alright imo for a few reasons, though it wasn't very good as a sequel, Gohan became a (euphemism for cat) Vegeta grew a moustache >___>, they didn't treat characters very nicely. Reflecting on perhaps the more important parts of GT makes it seem somewhat worthwhile, though the useless junk in between is just...useless.

Dragon Ball itself was okay, Z was great and where it acquired most of its fans. GT was alright in ways.

Vegeta was the greatest, no doubt, I often compare anti-heroes from other series to him. Though, somewhat sadly, he mellowed out as the series went on, though during the Buu arc when he wants to fight Kakarot again, I thought he had truly returned to his old self, he instead sacrifices himself at the end (Was okay with it though, at least he hurt that fat pink glob in the process iirc).

Wisely done. I've seen it....twice. Both times I tried to treat it like "Ghost Rider"..sadly unable to find lulz within the FAIL..

True enough.

The 'real' (non-canon, but DBZ) Gogeta with that power *obviously wouldn't have looked like another Goku but with slightly different, red hair* would have ended it in an instant. Vegetto would have no one to save inside Shenron...but still screwed around a little (not a lot like with Buu to harass the fool into absorbtion) before killing Shenron..with no threat of magic defusuio (plot device indeed). SS4 Gogeta..was an idiot. The worst of Goku and Vegeta...blamed on the later. Typical GT.

I once set-up a series of What-Ifs for a Budokai (3) like title should they ever have a story mode that isn't strictly story (canon)..with branching paths *not literally like the board thing of B2*. Having Vegetto face Fat Buu, Super Buu (pre-absorbtions), Buu-han (inside the fool *freeing friends* with his barrier active instead of let down..) or Kid Buu (after freeing his allies)...on Earth. Because we all know...Buus pissfit leading to its destruction..wouldn't NOT have happened against Vegetto..he would have kicked that thing back in Buu's stupid looking face..

Vegetto and Gogeta are the only 'titles' I expect. Even other spellings bother me (out of English speaking fans). SSJ is particularly annoying to see as we have no reason to say -jin. That's just stupid. I know they're a person.

I don't know...Bio-Broly was pretty stupid. Vegeta got punked out (again). Goku wasn't time on trivial things like indulgence of a 'friend'. Spirit Bomb...and yet again Gohan was useless despite being stronger than Goku. Convenient.

SS Vegeto was pretty rediculous in power...totally outclassing Buuhan...I'd have to think SS2 would have greatly increased his power by itself..at least enough to beat everyone up to Omega Shenron..certainly stronger than SS4 Goku/Vegeta. SS3 would no doubt be stronger than other foes...as for SS4 Gogeta...it's hard to say even despite the talk of Potara being '10x' better (that sort of thing is never very accurate really). SS4 would leave no doubts. I can't see any reason to believe Gogeta would be superior in that form. It's nonsense to believe the shorter, weaker fusion would beat the fixed, stronger one...yet fans will argue it.

I'd like to think Vegeta was just being a dick but I don't buy it. SS2 is as far as I'd have liked things to go..and it should have stayed Gohan's power...it was a passing of the torch that he be the new guardian with his 'potential' unlocked. The rest was needless. There were perks for the sufferings of Buu saga...but..I'd like a bunch of what-ifs to see things play out had a given fight ended differently.

GT...I can't get over how TERRIBLE all the fights were. Total jokes. It's a fighting show...not another adventure like Dragonball. Just rediculous. The crappy humor also bothers me.

Dragonball was okay (though I couldn't see every episode as about 20 were unavailable online where I was at). Piccolo was a pathetic villain. King Picollo did it better despite being a poor fight. GT just angers me. Z was filled with greatness. Even its fillers could be amusing now and then...though I typicaly skip those..

His character splintered into different people...all very cool. All very screwed over. Fat Buu shouldn't have been blown to bits/pieces...that isn't sensible..it wasn't a cutting wave..it was a spherical blast with an enormous radius and plenty enough power to have done in the fool (full energy + life energy *the latter would make ALL THE DIFFERENCE*). I'd be laughing all the way to the next episode for reactions to Vegeta killing Buu with that assault..leaving Babidi alone (shield)..to get slaughtered by Picollo..again.

Vegetto is THE BIGGEST, THE BEST, BETTER THAN THE REST. He was easily stronger than half of GT as Super Vegetto. At SS2 its doubtful anyone short of Omega Shenron or SS4 Gogeta could stand up to him. SS3 would crush all save perhpas SS4 Gogeta..and reaching SS4 would end that in a hurry as well. Level for level, nobody does it better.

Goku/Majin Vegeta is one of the few reasons Buu saga gets a pass...we get to see Goku and Vegeta at it again (no interference on Goku's side for this one)..on equal terms *though neither should have had SS2*...then they decided to be giant dicks by introducing the stupidest thing ever (until GT)..SS3. What a needless thing that was...

Cell showed everyone how things get done. Except form two...he was worthless to the point that Tien was shaming him... how very sad..then he cried while fighting Vegeta. Whined about Trunks. 1st Form and Perfect/Super Perfect were great. One for being truely evil/clever...the other for being a hilarious fool acting like an aristrocrat when truely a brute. *Freiza's influence; it wasn't super fruity thanks to Vegeta's genes*

~The fights were just terrible. The Blasts looked pathetic. How can I possibly take Final Shine seriously? THAT is stronger than Final Flash? Stupid. And the line to go with it...it's on par with DMC1 Dante..

I should have saved you...

I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with LIAAAAAAAAA@#@#@#!$@#%@#% 

We could....for a very long time no less.

~Though I intend to get back to GoW1 testing very soon. Been clearing up a little business. Just about finished watching a NG2 walkthrough of Master Ninja...it's getting to be a chore to watch though. I'll likely have to start up the process properly upon waking as picking up tonight would be unwise

I came a little just nowKillzone333

You lie.

SK: You put yourself through that PAIN twice? Why ever would you do that? To find lulz? Hardly worth the PAIN.

I thought Gogeta's wacky personality was because of Goku (at least, according to Vegeta)

Goku as a SSJ3 himself could have ended it if he wanted to. I doubt Vegetto would have had trouble (if any) against the psychopath. Fat Buu would have been eradicated/stopped quickly, that sickly looking Buu as well. Pretty much any form would have been eliminated after a few moments of toying around on Vegetto's part. Only S.Buu (w/ Gohan as primary 'absorbee') would have had a slim chance of truly delaying the inevitable for a while. Any villain/character that appeared in the series (barring GT) would have been swatted aside, with the sole exception of Gogeta. In the end, he too would of course, fall.

Dunno, that's just the term used in the *** version (that was the first language I watched the series in). It's also the traditional term, meh.

BB was stupid. Though introducing Kid Buu (and through that, the appearance of SSJ3 for Goku iirc) was a pretty stupid move. While I did find the idea of a 3rd level somewhat interesting, the long hair and lack of eye-brows was useless, as was the idea that Goku could only remain in that form for a few seconds (which was brought up elsewhere I think, probably non-canon)

SSJ3 Vegetto most likely wouldn't beat SSJ4 Gogeta, SSJ4 Vegetto would spank him.

Wonder what a fusion between Gohan & Goku would have been like. Granted, it might not be as powerful as Vegetto due to the rivalry between the latter's fusees.

Meh, Vegeta promptly transformed and displayed control, so most likely, he was screwing around. DB is pretty much about transforming to attain new power levels (the movies were choc full of it), it was only a matter of time before a newer, higher level was introduced and SSJ2 was left behind. Though being a Gohan-exclusive form would have been interesting, I'd take SSJ2 over Mystic any day.

Indeed, plot devices were at work again though. The supposed major villain of that arc permanently falling so quickly? Would have been very unconventional, unless a new (not different form) villain was introduced with the first one being a red herring. Ideally, a new form should have been introduced, not that fat version regenerating. Though Hercule/Satan needed a new friend...

I always wanted Mystic Gohan to break the rules and go SS2 ANYWAY.

THAT would have been ridiculous. 

Kuro: Would have been better than letting him get overshadowed by Goku in GT.

DP: One can't help, but try.

His idea of a joke (GT version) was Goku's..his cocky traits were blamed on Vegeta. The 'real' Gogeta got Goku's sense of justice and Vegeta's 'serious' (kill-you) side. No mercy...dicking around...or any confetti.

SS3 Goku could have killed Fat Buu. Super Buu and Kid Buu..Goku's talk was questionable. Buu with any absorbtions for extra power would destroy SS3 Goku like rubbish. Mystic Gohan would be EASILY stronger than Kid Buu. Vegetto...well you know. The final villain of GT would pose a threat unless Vegetto went for a higher form..though they did stupidly increase the BASE power of even Goku for GT....

I hate their tradition as honorifics for a series where the character's aren't on (the actual) Earth, don't live in Japan, etc. ... don't look asian (indeed they are what the Nazi's would strive to see...Aryan *Saiyan* power...Hitler's reaction would be hilarious before getting cast into oblivion). It's due to the art style really. Really..why clarify they're people? (jin)

It's hard to say where the bull**** begins. I'll likely read the manga someday soon if only because I've never done so for DBZ and wish to see how it ACTUALLY all went down.

(SS3) Hard to say. It's possible Vegetto would still be slightly weaker despite the superior quality of the Potara fusion and the infinite time span he has to fight with. It would have been interesting to see the 'real' Gogeta as SS4 rather then the GT Trash.

Inbred and hilarious. The whole 'rivalry' thing for power/cohesion or whatever is stupid really. At least it gave Goku real fighting tactics/techniques (that weren't ripped or learned magically *without real effort, explanation, training,etc.*)...and the will to murder/torture.

It got that way fast even slightly before SS appeared officially. Rapid power growth and talk of 'power I've never felt before' over and over. SS2 was fine. It should have been for just Gohan..what the Hell else was he to be considered special for? Going to school? Doing what his mother tell's him the rest of his life? Getting beat despite overwhelming power/speed advantage? What a fool he was turned into...

Ideally..having Fat Buu killed by any source would be excused just so we could at least have Super Buu going around killing fools. I never cared for the magic 'snack' changing powers....I liked the idea of the creaturing being brutally evil....GENOCIDE attack, getting into a person's body and blowing them apart, crushing, choking, etc. That's hardcore and I love it.

You can't doubt SS3. Goku used it to kill that beast from that Fist of the Dragon movie - I can't remember the name of it. And he got a pretty good beating on Buu and Janemba with it. They just don't have Goku SS3 too much, really. SS4, I don't know. Never really watched GT, but I know he kicked Baby's(Ape Form) but as SS4 easily.

Vegeta is a good fighter, but ultimately the 2nd best. He can only go to SS2, unless you count his SS4 which I don't know too much about. Vegeta is a good fighter, but a bit cocky. He's the one who let Cell absorb 18, remember.

1- Hirudegarn

2- Golden Oozaru

3- At any point when they are on equal footing (as far as transformations are concerned) Vegeta is the better fighter. In fact, he's the better fighter 100% of the time, but when Goku has a leg up on him (SS3 to SS2 for example) Goku is more powerful. Vegeta is just better all around. 

Look at Kuro...being concise where I would go at that point....at length. HA! HA!

(SS3) Sure I can. That flick was TRASH. Mystic Gohan weaker than SS3 Goku? A stupid attack like Dragon fist saving the day in a rather nonsensical way? The villain itself...the questionable presentation (nearly GT 'quality')..bleh. Fat Buu should have died early on. He was that terrible a character. SS3 should never have happened. It was needless and retarded. Janempa sucked. Janemba was pretty cool for a freak who turned Hell into candy land (with a hang-up over cursing)..the power was inconsistent for this flick as well. Typical really. SS4 was even worse as it wasn't really SS any longer.

Vegeta was the best "fighter". Bad decisions/traits are what they are...as his character was changed throughout the series.. unlike the perma-man child. (at least there was one character that developed..) Transformations are rediculous hang-ups. Power is another issue in of itself. Vegeta has always been stronger than Goku on a base to base level. Screw silly power-up techniques (with no downside really or a reasonable explanation for how they work), bull**** upgrades, etc. Goku was given everything...earned next to nothing. Created about as much. His best works were typically off-shoots of existing techniques. Pitiful. Vegeta shouldn't have even reached SS2...having it for Majin was amusing..but it was rediculous that Goku had it...let alone another level. Forget GT. It deserves no discussion.

~Kakkorot was likable until he reached King Kai....he was still watchable up until his return to Earth (Trunks Saga). He should have died (and stayed dead) as the only SS (Vegeta staying dead as well)...or later just let things go to Gohan who could have been EASILY tooled into the position of earth's greatest guardian...keeping the boy as a dope the rest of his life ruined the character despite GIANT power-ups he didn't really work for at all.

Stronger =/= Better Fighter

Goku doesn't really know how to fight- he picked it up as he went along. Vegeta on the other hand is trained and much more skilled. 

And Goku wasn't trained?

Not on the same level perhaps...but still, I'm not even a big fan of Goku, just seeing these debates about who's really the strongest fighter seem more pointless than beating a horse ridden with rigor mortis. Perhaps it'd be a little more acceptable if it was a series that kept itself in check, yet as cool as DBZ, it's too damn erratic to argue over.

Now, I will avert my pee stream from this bonfire and you gents can continue.

Kuro: I wouldn't go so far as to say Goku doesn't know how to fight....but I would agree he is an inferior fighter/warrior/tactian when compared to Vegeta.

KZ333: The point here is which is superior in fighting skills. It's hardly an issue of outright power (with transformations considered). Again, on a level-by-level basis, Vegeta wins that little contest. Pertaining to a fighter calling another the superior, that too can be contradicted in fact. I could believe another to be superior and be wrong. It's just a line the creator opted to allow (in the English anime translation).

~Vegeta too often allows power to be the total judge of ones 'standing' as a fighter. That's all. He doesn't even the consider the idea of ever challenging Goku's usage of higher forms in a standardized contest as he would see it as his foe 'holding back' (power). Not considering the odds being stacked against him via these power-ups versus actual skill besting his abilities. I suppose one should honor that prideful approach...I just tend to favor defending THE BEST of the show via the angle he would never "work"

j person who just commented: Thank you, your opinion is appreciated!

everyone else: Isn't it obvious Goku is better? He's fought/ beaten Vegeta many times through the series. And Goku's the one who fights most of the enemies. Now I know Vegeta is cooler and you all probaly like him more but use a little common sense and think.