TUGOWU Speedrun Thread

I recieved a warning for the word ass, and another one for 'class'.

This is a joke right?

Everybody knows Bubbles.

~In the Biblical sense

Dr. Suess hates and loves children.

You can tell by the sexual tension in all his work.

If you like it so much, why don't you pastel that pastey white flesh with a bit of the brown stuff?

~Maybe you can be Proto's little brown girl

To note it, we should be discussing CoO, GoS and GoWIII primarily regarding the very basic standards for a time limit on what counts as a speedrun in fair play.  Then we can get on with (maybe) discussion of costume use, urns/possessions, NG vs NG+, AR MAX, etc.  Or perhaps leave it at the fair play restriction for now and you can do your run and note it.

NOTE: It makes me laugh to think our specialty/challenge run tag just say "NUR".  It is THAT old.  Older than "NUR+" (which it tends to refer to) and the other run types (much older than PAIN).  We have tags just for it.  Not for lesser runs.  A generalized case for "Challenge Runs" or "Specialty Runs" while noting 'vet status' would be something to dicuss with a graphic designer.  Also, you'll qualify for the time/nur tag.  I don't know why I never used the tag for "NUR".  Perhaps simply because it didn't go with my sign.  Meh.

Getting back on topic, GoWII's times might need just a tiny bit of tightening up.  It would help if vets (chaps like me should I opt to finally just try to do things fast *but without skips and major exploits just to try to be quick about things*) tested things out and talked out times.  Maybe somewhat accounting for (and expecting) some minor skips *not fighting foes*, good use of upgrading (if any need for it), good tactics (with OP set-ups), fine handling of rapid movement, etc.  Relatively 'minor things' so as to seperate the time expectations from a regular run done by any slob on those difficulties.

It would pain me to fill the list with trash using Easy Dairy Bastard and a few of our easier skips about as much as a really crappy run of GoWIII done with the ECB to skip much of the game (having one trick down to allow their run to get by).  I'd need help from findlestick, AKheon and others with a good head about them, experience with these runs, etc.  Frankly, I'm just not as into these as I am with Challenge Runs, so I can't do the lifting entirely on my own. Not well anyway.

If I recall roughly 2 hours 45 minutes was my speed run without ECB and 2 hours 5 min with ECB. I'll have to redo them and give you the times I get.

I'll do all speedruns with minor skips. I wont do ECB in GoW 3 and no swimming glitch in GoW II. Do them on Easy and VH to see the differences. Will use Urns and Possessions.

I'll consider these runs and others when amending times for VH and scaling down to Easy.  The jump should be largest between Easy and Normal (2x difference, but it only effects combat aspects *something to consider is how often you fight, about how long and how much of it is forced*).  Second largest would be the gap between Hard and Very Hard (the gap between Normal and Very Hard still isn't as big as Easy and Normal *how could it be?*).

The current listing for GoWIII (without thought) is a copy of GoWII so it goes as such:

GoWIII Easy - 04:30:00?

GoWIII Normal - 04:45:00?

GoWIII Hard - 05:00:00?

GoWIII Very Hard - 05:15:00?

Findlestick's run was on Easy with Fear Kratos (for Power) and possessions while using NG+ and ECB.  The time is 01:30:26 with all that.

Tyrhhjy's run was VH with default Kratos (NG), but still allowing for all other exploits available to the run.  The time was 02:51:38.  Still quite respectable to be sure.  Large difference between Easy with more Power, active Possessions, NG+ and use of ECB (massive skip) and a NG case of VH using all other major skips/glitches.  A 'fairplay' run without the major exploits/glitches (instead mostly just playing fast and skipping what is allowed) would be desirable to look at.

You note a run of 02:45:00 without ECB (no talk of conditions) *VH NG+?*.  This same run (likely same conditions) at 02:05:00 with it.  About 30 minutes carved out.

>clear E and VH speedruns

With default Kratos?

>no major exploits/glitches

This helps to set a base.

>with Urns and Possessions

This somewhat throws things off as would super costume abuse.

The current limit listed for Easy in GoWIII is 04:30:00 with VH at 05:15:00.  By the sounds of things, this should be tightened up by at least an hour even if just talking about completely fair play runs like a VH NG without major skips/glitches.  A time like 04:15:00 doesn't seem out of the question nor the same to an Easy version at 03:30:00.

Runs in "NG+" would imply a big advantage.  More so with major skips/glitches available just to them (especially ECB).  Taking off another hour would be necessary overall if everything available to you is used.  This would make the 'no limits' cases for Easy 02:30:00 (which you already meet) and VH at 03:15:00.  Even that might be too kind.

Besides 'no limits (like with NG+), there would be more limited concerns like NG with some favorable costume and the likes of possessions.  Take 15 to 30 minutes off the total time?

GoWII's times are the same as what is noted.

Shen's old VH fairplay run is at 03:32:40 (MistryMan's run just being about 20 minutes longer)  His last exploiting run was 03:07:25.  When he pulled all the stops (and went down to Easy), it reduced all the way to 01:35:08.

Findlestick too the 'no limits case down to 01:03:45.  Another large drop.

So a fairplay run of GoWII on VH got as low as about 03:30:00.  The likes of 05:15:00 Seems somewhat overly generous.  04:30:00 still gives plenty of overhead.  04:00:00 is as low as I can imagine arguing for it (quite strict in this case).

With 'no limits' (on a given setting) the expected time could drop an hour pretty safely.  So if it were 04:30:00 (more likely 03:30:00), it would drop to 03:30:00 (02:30:00 in the case of more strict expectations).  That's speaking of Easy's time limits of course.  Given the old run by Shen was so short, I could afford to cut yet more, but I think this is fine (02:00:00 would be pushing it).

I might propose the current base be something like this for GoWIII:

New Game/Fair Play (minor skips/minor glitches) --- Costumes, Possessions (major skips/major glitches) --- No Limits

GoWIII Easy - 03:30:00 --- 03:00:00 --- 02:30:00

GoWIII Normal - 03:45:00 --- 03:15:00 --- 02:45:00

GoWIII Hard - 04:00:00 --- 03:30:00 --- 03:00:00

GoWIII Very Hard - 04:15:00 --- 03:45:00 --- 03:15:00

NOTE: I will need help with differences in time between settings, variances for different times (could be as simple as full limits *down to minor skips/glitches with default Kratos in NG*) versus the 'no limits' section.

Regarding GoWII: 

Full limits - No limits

GoWII Easy - 03:30:00 --- 02:30:00

GoWII Normal - 03:45:00 --- 02:45:00

GoWII Hard - 04:00:00 --- 03:00:00

These times should be plenty generous while tightening the belt.  It might be an oversimplification to just have full limits or no limits,  but it makes it easier on us regarding what we compare runs to.  Again, we have a 'full limits' VH run from years ago by Shenmini at almost 03:30:00.  Well under the time with his nearest competion at about 03:50:00.  Nearly a half hour of time to spare regarding the limit.

The slow decline of times to Easy favors that setting for just getting a run put on the list (something to adjust for in future drafts).  I noted before the biggest gap is E to N (more so than H to VH or even N to VH).  Easy doesn't just double all stats, it makes foes docile and gives rage/magic perks.  The normal 15 minute drop between settings could drop 30 minutes on Easy (from Normal). That would make it "03:15:00 --- 02:15:00".

This might cover the gap between E and N, but not so much just how much limits versus no limits pans out.  At any rate, the next draft for GoWII would be:

GoWII Easy - 03:15:00 --- 02:15:00

GoWII Normal - 03:45:00 --- 02:45:00

GoWII Hard - 04:00:00 --- 03:00:00

Lots to consider.  Testing helps.

I'm doing a GoW III speed run today on easy without NG+ and no ECB. Will emlpoy skips that anyone would be able to do without learning.

Will be using Possession Hephestus Ring, for obvious reasons, and perhaps the infinite magic possession. but no more.

>GoWIII

>Easy NG

What of costumes?

>minor skips/exploits

Noted.

>Ring

This is fine.  I'll account for this.

>Shell

Bah.  That makes it a spell spamming fest without need for chests or tactics.  I'll have to try to account for that as well.  Maybe adding perhaps 15 minutes to the time.  Hard to say.

No costumes. A bare run using just ring & shell.

The magic doesn't help as much as I thought BoE is much stronger.

>default Kratos

>NG

>Easy

Alright.

>Ring

Meh.

>Shell

FFFFFFFFF-

>BoE is stronger

Then capitalize on it.  Also, recall Nemean Roar is altered by Power %.  It should be more effective than usual.

AoS is over powered for magic.

Nemen Roar will be main focus of use once acquired.

>AoS is OP

It is just much better than the res (which are pretty bad).  The case is less true on Easy where Nemean Roar gets a big boost while also having a price cut.

Progressing much slower than I'd hoped. 1st visit to Flame at 1 hr 43 min.

This doesn't feel like a speedrun b/c I didn't do any costume or NG+. it will be a slow speed run.

[spoiler]

Mount Olympus

Gaia:Shoulder

-Magic Spam
-Early tree lift

Gaia:Arm

-skip

Leviathan 1 - (Standing 1) magic, t,t,t

(Ceiling) s & t

(Wall) t

(Standing 2) t,t,t

Mountainside:Exterior A

-skip

Mountainside:Exterior B

-skip

Moutainside:Interior:Tomb of Ares

-reverse centaur charge, early lever pull

Gaia:Chest:Exterior

Leviathan 2

Stage 1 - spam magic, t,t,t

Stage 2 - ^repeat

Gaia:Chest:Interior

-navigate, skip

Gaia:Head

Poseidon

Stage 1 - t,t,t

Gaia:Hand

Stage 2 -spam magic, t,t,t

Gaia:Head

Stage 3 - t,t,t

River Styx

-Swim

Realm of Hades

Hades Path

-skip

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(AoS Trial) spam magic

(Rope) t

Gorgon Serpent Chamber

-AoS

Peirithous Puzzle

-navigate, beat cerberus, get bow, skip trial

Harpy Chamber

-skip

Underworld:Cliffside

-Navigate

Three Judges:Lower *Trials of Erebus*

-AoS

-AoS

-AoS

Three Judges:Upper:Section B

-navigate, skip

Caverns of Hades:Bridge

-skip

Caverns of Hades:Bramble Vent Puzzle

-do puzzle,

Caverns of Hades:Hades Arms

-skip

Palace of Hades:Outer Atrium

-skip

Caverns of Hades:The Forge

-Lever

Caverns of Hades:Gazebo

-(Dogs) skip

Hades Path

(RoS Trial)

-AoS

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(Twin Hades Cerberus) AoS "O" repeat

Palace of Hades:Door of Hades

-AoS

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber

-navigate, AoS

Palace of Hades:Mezzanine

-skip

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber

-navigate, skip fights

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber *again*

-AoS, navigate

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber *again*

-Finish puzzle

Palace of Hades:Throne Room

Hades

S1P1 - (Stand) AoS, t,t,t

S1P2 - (Wall) AoS

S1P3 - (Meat)

S2P1 - (Stand) Repeat

S2P2 - (Wall) repeat

S2P3 - (Meat)

S3 - (Wall)AoS

S4 - (Tug-of-War) break out, use Bow

S5 - (CoH) t,t,t spam Archers

Palace of Hades:Soul Summon Trial

-t,t,t

Cavern of Hades:The Forge

-Pass through

Cavern of Hades:Gazebo

-AoS

Hades Path *yet again*

-Skip

Olympia:Door

-Cast Gaia down

-AoS

Olympia:Cave

-Navigate

Olympia:Building A

-AoS

-(Centaur) Reverse grab over edge

Olympia:Ballista

Chimera

(Snake) AoS

(Lion) AoS

(Goat) AoS

Olympia:Chasm

-Harpy ride

Olympia:Building B:Exterior:Balcony

-Skip

Olympia:Building B:Interior:Hallway

-Skip

Olympia:Building C:Wall

-Navigate

Olympia:Eos Cave Door

-Use Cyclops to destroy shieldguards, AoS, kill Helios.

Eos Cave:Corridor 1

-Skip and navigate

Eos Cave:Corridor 2

-skip & navigate

Eos Cave:Catwalk 1

-skip, light door, navigate

Eos Cave:Corridor 3

-skip

Eos Cave:Rope

-t

Eos Cave:Corridor 4A

-skip

Eos Cave:Corridor 4B

-skip

Eos Cave:Broken Bridge

-Harpy ride

Eos Cave:Cliffside

-skip

Eos Cave:Catwalk 2

-blow pots, gra to OH

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 1

-navigate

Chain of Balance:Scaffolding

-Navigate

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 2

-navigate

The Caverns:Box 1

-Burn bramble.

The Caverns:Box 2

-AoS

The Caverns:Box 3

-Listen to Hermes then get up the Chain of Balance

Chamber of the Flame

-Unveil 3 frescos, read them and watch the cutscenes

*SAVE 1 hr 43 min*

[/spoiler]

>doesn't feel like a speedrun

>Easy NG

>minor skips/minor glitches

 >slow speedrun

To be expected.  The current time expected of such conditions is only 03:30:00.

>BoA

>t,t,t

>not s,t,t,t

What's all this?

>lots of AoS

If this is slower than fighting properly, it might not hurt the time expectations much to just keep with it.  Meh.

Odly enough it would seem that AoS and t,t,t do roughly same damage. Got Nemen Cestus. The roar seems weaker than Super Plume.

4 hrs 2 min final time. Adding the final 20 min after opening Pandora's Box, it's 4 hr 22 min. Will add the skeleton later.

About to finish up VH, then a NG+ without ECB but with all other skips I know.

[spoiler]

The Olympian Citadel A

-Proceed to the wall from the walk way, slide down, cross the grapple point and land on the burning, breaking bridge.

-(Bridge)

-Pursue Hermes.

-skip fight

-Grab hold the Crane, pull the lever, cross the gap, make your way across another breaking bridge.

-navigate, skip fight

-Pursue Hermes past the portcullis. Use the catapult to reach Athena's Statue.

Grand Vestibule:Lower

Hermes

-AoS tap O (3x)

Grand Vestibule:Upper

-navigate, skip fights

The Olympian Citadel B

-AoS, Spirit

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Navigate, skip fights

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway A

-skip fights

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Muse Music Box

-Puzzle

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Elevator

-Use Gorgon to destroy shieldguards

Chamber of the Flame

-Move on up

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Use the crank

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway B

-skip fight

The Forum

Hercules

S1 - AoS, Spirit

S2 - repeat

S3 - repeat

S4 - (Cestus) Roar

Olympus Sewer:Nemean Roar trial

-(trial) Roar

-(Phalanx) Roar

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber

-Skip(Ring lets me open door without fighting)

Poseidon's Chamber:Hyperion Gates

-(Puzzle)

-(Elevator)

-(Bronze Talos) Roar

Poseidon's Chamber:Halls

-Roar

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber *again*

-Skip

Upper Gardens:Bridges

-Navigate

Aphrodite's Chamber

-Go through the gate

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *yet again*

-Go to Tartarus

Cavern of Hades:Path to Tartarus

-Kill Lost Souls

-(Centaur) Spirit, AoS

Gates of Tisiphone

-(2x Chimera) AoS, Spirit, Roar

-Do the puzzle

Pit of Tartarus:Path

-navigate, skip fights

Cronos

-Blind him

Cronos:Right Hand

-AoS, Spirit

Cronos:Right Forearm

-AoS, Spirit

Cronos:Right Hip

-Navigate

Cronos:Navel

-Spirit, roar

-Attack Onyx

-AoS

Cronos:Left Hand

(Wall) square attacks

(Floor) Spirit

(Ceiling) s & t

Cronos:Left Arm

-Navigate

Cronos:Left Shoulder

-AoS, Spirit

Cronos:Throat

-Navigate then do mini-game escape

Cronos:Navel

-Break it and do mini-game

Cronos:Face

-Break onyx and finish this encounter

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *for the last time*

-Get the whips and end Hephaestus

-(trial) skip

Aphrodite's Chamber

-Passing through

Upper Gardens:Bridges

(Nemesis Rage trial)

Daedalus' Workshop

-Pass through

Olympus Garden:Maze

-skip all fights

Olympus Garden:Hall

-(Satyrs) skipped (jet dash to end, ring opens door without fighting)

Olympus Gardens:Puzzle

-Do it and cross the gap

Hidden Passageway:Hallway

-skip, navigate

Hidden Passageway:Cave

-skip

The Caverns:Box 4

-skip cutscene(jetdash to center of box) AoS, Spirit, Roar used for battle.

The Caverns:Flood Chamber

-Pass on through

The Caverns:Hallway A

-Use Elevator

The Caverns:Hallway B

-skip, navigate

The Caverns:Dark Path

-Navigate

The Caverns:Dark Pool

-skip

The Caverns:Hallway C

-skip, navigate

The Caverns:Box 5

Skorpius

-Roar, Spirit

S1P1 -Break 2 legs left side, 1 leg right side

S1P2 - beat face, minigame

S2P1 -same as S1P1

S2P2 - same as S2P1

S3 - Icarus Vent to mini-game

-Use the Boreas Icestorm and go up the vent. Use it again. Do the grapple sequence.

The Caverns:Box 6

-AoS, Roar, Spirit, repeat...

The Caverns:Flood Chamber

-Proceed

The Caverns:Hallway D

-Get to the rope and cross it. Then deal with the grapples

The Caverns:Box 7

-Boreas it

The Labyrinth:Box 1

-AoS, Spirit

The Labyrinth:Box 2

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 3

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 4

-AoS first wave box turns stand on lip let spikes kill all. Kill 1 siren with Whips Shock, skip rest.

The Labyrinth:Pandora's Cage

-Get her

The Laybrinth:Box 5

-AoS

The Labyrinth:Box 6

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 7

-AoS, Roar, Spirit, repeat

The Labyrinth:Box Tops

-Get in position for the cutscene

Icarus Vent 3

-Fall

Three Judges:Lower

Hades Cerberus Breeder

S1 - AoS

S2 - AoS

S3 - AoS

Three Judges:Upper:Section A

-Smash

-skip

Three Judges:Upper:Section B

-Smash.

-skip

Three Judges:Lower

-Break it

Icarus Vent 4

-up we go

The Labyrinth:Box Tops

-Get going

Chain of Balance

-Keep going

Chamber of the Flame

-Up

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Turn it

Zeus

S1P1 - Air grabs gallore.

S1P2 - repeat*

Olympus:Pavilion

S2 -block in his face

Gaia:Chest:Interior *Heart*

S3P1 - t, air grabs gallore

S3P2 - repeat

Stab heart, Fear Kratos, punch Zeus to death, 90 kinutes of credits later. 4 hrs 22 min.

[/spoiler]

VH turns out to be 4 hrs 50 min. Adding the 25-27 minutes from opening Pandora's box. Now comes the NG+ on Easy using Fear Kratos, all possessions and all skips except for ECB.

NG+, Fear Kratos, major skips without ECB came to 2 hours 45 minutes. Minus 5-10 min for my failed attempts if you think it's fair. I'll link the videos that include all the skips I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gscc-uphOQs I did every skip in this video up to the 20 minute mark,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4tEmrA4GHg This is the route I took.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEp57PGpM4w&list=PLCAFCE87CC568FA95&index=2&feature=plpp_video Start at 13:35 for the other skips I applied. I skipped the door to olympus using Boots, High Jump Grapple, Jet Dash. Did not do skip at 22 minutes.

Skipped Hermes dialogue at caverns and Chamber of Flame. Skipped entire Cronos section by jet dashing to last door at broken bridges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PS_DMN_eJY&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL3485456F1D8D8657 Used this skip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqzL3V3jZx0&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL3485456F1D8D8657 as well as this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0FLh1lzmeM&list=PL3485456F1D8D8657&index=43&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymk-UluM-RM&list=PL3485456F1D8D8657&index=42&feature=plpp_video

skip hades cerberus bastard by doing the super high grapple on satyr and dashing over the gate.

the rest was raising the chain and killing zeus.

>04:22:00

Really?  I suppose 04:30:00 would be more reasonable.  Surprising.

>VH next

>then NG+ w/o ECB

Right then.

>VH at 04:50:00

With Easy adjusted to 04:30:00, VH would be 05:30:00.  Perhaps it scales up too much in this case.  Curious.

>NG+ Fear Kratos w/o ECB

03:30:00 would be (under the current system) expected.  You denote 02:45:00.  Quite a bit under.

>links

I'll have to look through all this tomorrow.  I don't have the energy for it or the update.

4:30 is reasonable time for easy.

5:30 gives a bit to play with. i would say 5:15.

For my 2:45 I would either put it to 2:30 or 3:00, whichever you think is more reasonable. Each time I failed a skip it would add a bunch of seconds. Sometimes it would take me 3 minutes to naul a skip. If I could do every skip on first try the run would be down to 2:30.

So let's see here:

Without getting into middle ground...limits and no limits:

GoWIII Easy - 04:30:00 --- 03:30:00

GoWIII Normal - 04:50:00 --- 03:50:00

GoWIII Hard - 05:00:00 --- 04:00:00

GoWIII Very Hard - 05:15:00 --- 04:15:00

The current set-up makes a 20 minute gap between Easy and Normal (biggest span), 10 minutes between Normal and Hard (smallest gap) and 15 minutes between Hard and Very Hard (next biggest gap).  The total gap between Easy and Very Hard remains the same (at 45 minutes).  Only just an hour is stripped between the current list of GoWIII conditions with limits and the no limits list.  Rather than 60 minutes, perhaps 90 minutes should be taken off.  That would be:

GoWIII Easy - 04:30:00 --- 03:00:00

GoWIII Normal - 04:50:00 --- 03:20:00

GoWIII Hard - 05:00:00 --- 03:30:00

GoWIII Very Hard - 05:15:00 --- 03:45:00

Let's see the current list of runs in GoWIII compared to this:

Yours is noted to have 15 minutes to spare with no limits Easy, findlestick is way under (also used ECB for 30 minute save or so) and tyrhhjy is way under even with VH 'no limits' considered.  Bah, this time business is so foreign to me.

We'll keep chipping away at the times little by little.  What's your thoughts on the current conditions?

EDIT

It feels like the 'no limits' area might still not be strict enough and the difference between E and VH (45 minutes) it too large though I do like the gap between settings being proportioned differently.  I'm not sure how many of hte time entries runs I'd want to list per user.  Let's say we do tighten up even more for the difference between limited and unlimited (90 minutes to 120).  What does this look like?:

GoWIII Easy - 04:30:00 --- 02:30:00

GoWIII Normal - 04:50:00 --- 02:50:00

GoWIII Hard - 05:00:00 --- 03:00:00

GoWIII Very Hard - 05:15:00 --- 03:15:00

This certainly greatens the expecations on the runner considerably (no botches and good use of skip options if not just cheesing with ECB *perahps going with out it getting an asterisks?*).

If the current set-up regarding 90 (rather than 120 minutes) difference is kept, but the difference between E and VH is reduced further:

GoWIII Easy - 04:30:00 --- 03:00:00

GoWIII Normal - 04:45:00 --- 03:20:00

GoWIII Hard - 04:50:00 --- 03:30:00

GoWIII Very Hard - 05:00:00 --- 03:45:00

Combine the two changes for:

GoWIII Easy - 04:30:00 --- 02:30:00

GoWIII Normal - 04:45:00 --- 03:45:00

GoWIII Hard - 04:50:00 --- 02:50:00

GoWIII Very Hard - 05:00:00 --- 03:00:00

This latest, and most strict, set-up might be 'just right' without making the expecations to qualify beyond absurd.

The final adjustment is about perfect.

The ECB would warrant a *.

I suppose this is the first time we've used an asterisk to denote something that takes the 'easy way' out (rather than a special mention).

If we're agreed on the GoWIII time, perhaps we should begin looking at another title next.  GoWII?

I'll do GoW I & II. But i will not do Coo or GoS.

I started them both and about 30 minutes into each title, I realizes I was extremely annoyed.

For GoW II I'll do plain Kratos on NP Easy & Titan. Followed by BP GK on Easy and Titan. BP will include all urns but not the swimming glitch. I'll do one final BP on easy using DO and will do the swimming glitch to skip half the game.

GoW I will be normal Kratos on Easy & Hard. then Dairy Bastard on Easy and Hard implementing all known skips that I can do.

>GoW1 and GoWII

>not CoO or GoS

Suits me fine.  Aid should be taken happily where it can be had.

>GoWII E NG and VH NG

Excellent.

>BP minus swim glitch

 I suppose that helps put into perspective the difference it can make.  Those that use it will stomp our time.

>urns

Bah.

>Easy BP with DO and swim glitch

All out minus the Urns.

>GoW1 E and H

>H

Why Hard?  No matter.  The time for NG VH is pretty well set in stone.  Only small adjustments should be expected if any.

>DB E and H with all skips

I see.

>H

Meant VH. Starting GoW II tonight.

During my GoW 2 NP I will still do basic skips after getting BH. Like skipping TM3, jumping over the barriers at endurance run, skipping platforms, etc...

We'll want to discuss the run tags.  Be they general or specific.

General

Specialty Run Vet (or) Challenge Run Vet

More Specific

NUR Vet

NUR+ Vet

PAIN Vet

PAIN+ Vet

Specific

GoW:A/CoO/GoW1/GoS/GoWII/GoWIII NUR/NUR+/PAIN/PAIN+ vet (CoO PAIN+* vet)

---

This said, it is usually enough to just stick with the most general (challenge/specialty run vet).  One can make tags for the othrs, but stacking them is not suggested.

One could be made for top marks in all games (PAIN/PAIN+) or 'above and beyond' (asterisk for any entry).  Even 'perfection' as with Taz's current record (until GoW:A *when he needs to return*).

>Glitcher

I suppose that aspect is too often overlooked.  One might also pay respects to AKHeon for his FAQ work (if not speedruns and glitching).  "FAQ Author"?  For lesser cases, "FAQ contributor" (those that help and are credited)?

I say do away with NUR and keep it NUR+Veteran, PAIN/PAIN+ Veteran, Speedrun Veteran, Glitching Veteran, and for people like me have the Speacialty Run Veteran(instead of 3 different tags).

I think denoting each game isn't necessary. Just the basic tag if one meets that requirement. I don't want 12 tags naming each game and run I did.

>do away with NUR

Can't do that.  It is the true starting point and is waht got things started.  NER is not honored along with other lesser runs.  NUR is the lowest run we pay homage to.

>various vets

The highest they manage to clear constitutes which they are even if it is for just one title?  That makes for four cases (NUR, NUR+, PAIN, PAIN+).  Of course, a GoW1 player is shafted if they don't branch out.

'Glitching Vet ...not sure I like the wording, but I can't think of anything better.

Speedrun Vet is simple enough.  Specialty Run Veteran covers multiple runs, but makes it needless to be specific.  Really, it is probably simplest to just do away with the old NUR tag and make it only the "Specialty Run Veteran" or "Challenge Run Veteran" tag.  The Speedrun/NUR tag would needupdating.  Trouble being that the current tags are animated (how fancy), so chaning them won't be so easy without knowledge of the proper programs.

>denoting each isn't necessary

Indeed it isn't.  Just noting that you are a vet is enough (then using that as reference to look up their history).