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[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="kcpp2b"][QUOTE="schaotix"]I know that this has been brought up many times before, but I don't have time to sift through 350+ posts.
Â
Having said that, I am wondering something. Does the 360 Elite come with the new chip/CPU that doesn't overheat as easily, or not? Thanks.
kcpp2b
No it doesn't. And don't ask why it doesn't, God alone is still trying to figure out why they would release another version of a console that breaks maybe 20-30% of the time.
You're implying that two to three MILLION Xbox 360s are broken? Isn't it more likely that stores like Walmart and Target are getting Xbox 360s returned that are broken, but not returned as such, and they're simply putting them out on the shelves? Isn't it more likely that the 200,000 or so people with a broken 360 are becoming rather vocal, whereas the majority of people with a working unit aren't? When you consider that the most internet savvy individuals are also the ones most likely to play a 360 extensively, and find the faults in a defective unit, it's easy to see how a small percentage of owners could make a lot of "noise". The defect rate IS NOT 20%Dude everywhere I go, on many many forums had many many many people complaining about different broken 360's. I did a lot of research from just forums and stuff before I got my 360 in which I got a two year warranty thank god.
I think the failure rate is no less then 10% to be honest but could very well be at 20% or maybe max 30%
Researching the internet is not a bad idea, but people who are on these forums do not make the whole population of xbox owners. I can't imagine that all 10 million owners will be on the forums. I know that 4 million consoles are on xbox live, and those four million may also be on the forums, but I don't think every xbox owner is.Â
Dude everywhere I go, on many many forums had many many many people complaining about different broken 360's. I did a lot of research from just forums and stuff before I got my 360 in which I got a two year warranty thank god.So what, that's 3 million users you reckon that have a fault 360?! Rofl. I'm sure Microsoft themselves said it was less than 1%...30% is nonsense.I think the failure rate is no less then 10% to be honest but could very well be at 20% or maybe max 30%Â
kcpp2b
[QUOTE="kcpp2b"]Dude everywhere I go, on many many forums had many many many people complaining about different broken 360's. I did a lot of research from just forums and stuff before I got my 360 in which I got a two year warranty thank god.So what, that's 3 million users you reckon that have a fault 360?! Rofl. I'm sure Microsoft themselves said it was less than 1%...30% is nonsense.I think the failure rate is no less then 10% to be honest but could very well be at 20% or maybe max 30%
Gregoroth
OMG dude first off don't tell me you believe microsoft and how on earth do you it it's less that 1%???
You gotta be kidding me. It's no less then 10% IMOÂ
anyone preorder this at circuit city.com yet?SBurns22
I did when they first started to take these preorders. I actually called them. Well if you are going to preorder you better do it quick, cause my buddy tried preordering today, and they said that there is no guarentees anymore if you decide to preorder because a lot of people already preordered. I guess there is a mass amount of people trying to get the elite.Â
[QUOTE="SBurns22"]anyone preorder this at circuit city.com yet?jay_k3
I did when they first started to take these preorders. I actually called them. Well if you are going to preorder you better do it quick, cause my buddy tried preordering today, and they said that there is no guarentees anymore if you decide to preorder because a lot of people already preordered. I guess there is a mass amount of people trying to get the elite.Â
It's not a mass amount of people trying to get the Elite, it's the fact that CC is one of if not the only major online retailer taking reserves for the system. So basically whatever number they think they are going to get, that is all that is available online right now from a respecible source, so you have all the a**holes that think they can make a killing on ebay selling these systems to people that were unable to get one in stores buying all the reserves on Circuit City, if Best Buy, EB or any of the other ones start taking reserves, this panick will pass. People are already selling them on Amazon for 750 bucks and just a couple days ago it was over 2400 bucks, for the Elite once it launches. If anything, I think the fact that it took the online major online retailer taking reserves the better part of a week to sort of sell out, a testimate to the fact that the Elite won't be crazy to obtain.Who cares what percentage of 360s fail. It doesn't really make a difference, especially since MS will ship you a new one for free, that works just fine. Sure it might take a week or so, but at least you get a new, working console. MS customer service is great.Caboose7293What? you cannot be that stupid or be that short sighted, can you? It's not a matter of whether you can get a replacement 8 months from now if your system breaks down, it's a matter of whether you can get a replacement 18 months from now. If the failure rate is high in the short term, then it sure as hell doesn't make one confident for the long term, people are concerned because the warranty doesn't last forever buddy. Who wants to buy a system that they know has a high rate of failure and has a better than likely chance of failing 14 months 20 months whatever from now, and leave them looking at the full cost of replacement or a hefty repair bill. That's why everyone should care about the percentage of failure. And even if your in warranty and one fails, if you need a full replacement, either by Microsoft or by a store plan, it is a hell of a pain in the a** to go through a replacement, anybody who has a sizable amount of DLC from Marketplace is full aware of that, even with a good download speed, your looking at hours and hours of BS to redownload content, and that is assuming you don't get screwed and lose movies, games and other stuff permanently and get forced to rebuy the content. Get the idea now?
so then is the chip y 360's break? or is it some thing else?o0George0oNo, not directly why. But it is a large contributing factor. The system is just a beast, it's very powerful and it generates a lot of heat, heat is the enemy of every electronic component inside the system, and in some cases, too much exposure to too much heat for too long, and something else bites the bullet. The 65nm chip as compared to the current 90 nm chip is more efficient, it uses less energy and the travel distance is shorter, so the heat buildup is lessened. We don't know how much less heat, but it should be a reasonable drop in internal temps, which everyone is hoping will be a big help in a more stable, more efficient and more reliable xbox 360.
[QUOTE="jay_k3"][QUOTE="SBurns22"]anyone preorder this at circuit city.com yet?Schumi7WDC
I did when they first started to take these preorders. I actually called them. Well if you are going to preorder you better do it quick, cause my buddy tried preordering today, and they said that there is no guarentees anymore if you decide to preorder because a lot of people already preordered. I guess there is a mass amount of people trying to get the elite.
It's not a mass amount of people trying to get the Elite, it's the fact that CC is one of if not the only major online retailer taking reserves for the system. So basically whatever number they think they are going to get, that is all that is available online right now from a respecible source, so you have all the a**holes that think they can make a killing on ebay selling these systems to people that were unable to get one in stores buying all the reserves on Circuit City, if Best Buy, EB or any of the other ones start taking reserves, this panick will pass. People are already selling them on Amazon for 750 bucks and just a couple days ago it was over 2400 bucks, for the Elite once it launches. If anything, I think the fact that it took the online major online retailer taking reserves the better part of a week to sort of sell out, a testimate to the fact that the Elite won't be crazy to obtain.What your saying make sense. Eb and Game stop as well as best buy are not doing reserves. CC is the only place.Â
ZOMG, I've got an actual ELITE...pictures on my blog.
http://www.gamespot.com/users/alkaline_DnB/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-24941843
OMG dude first off don't tell me you believe microsoft and how on earth do you it it's less that 1%???Yes I believe Microsoft and I kid you not. Just because people on forums are vocal about it doesn't mean AT LEAST 10% are problematic. OMG...if that's was the case then they would have already had a lawsuit filed against them for it!You gotta be kidding me. It's no less then 10% IMOÂ
kcpp2b
With mine it has always been the DVD-Drive failing. That doesn't even get lights at all. It just says unplayable disc when ever you try to play anything. I have gotten 3-red lights on my most current 2-3 times. It goes away if I let it sit though. I thought it gave you 2 red lights if it over heats though, not three.EMERlCa6969Oh man...I think that's even worse than the red ring of doom (I had 2 myself personally) At least with the red ring, there's no guesswork involved. It's time to get a new system (for me, via warranty thankfully!) But with the disc drive errors, you're just left praying every time you boot up a game. Hope you've wisely purchased a warranty as well!
Caboose7293 wrote: Who cares what percentage of 360s fail. It doesn't really make a difference, especially since MS will ship you a new one for free, that works just fine. Sure it might take a week or so, but at least you get a new, working console. MS customer service is great.
are u serious. my 360 has been broken for a month. just yester day after 3 attempts dids i get my box. now i open the box and there's no shipping return slip. so i have to take it to the ups store and insure and pay for shipping ($20) now its bad enough that my xbox broke but this is just rediculous.
does the elite have a standard hdmi port so i can use any hdmi cable i want or does it use a specific xbox one, my hdmi port is already taken up by ps3 i was wondering if hdmi to dvi cable would work on this?SimsdawgyHDMI is a standard port, you can use whatever cable you want. Microsoft is using a standard HDMI port on the 360 Elite.
[QUOTE="Schumi7WDC"][QUOTE="jay_k3"][QUOTE="SBurns22"]anyone preorder this at circuit city.com yet?jay_k3
I did when they first started to take these preorders. I actually called them. Well if you are going to preorder you better do it quick, cause my buddy tried preordering today, and they said that there is no guarentees anymore if you decide to preorder because a lot of people already preordered. I guess there is a mass amount of people trying to get the elite.
It's not a mass amount of people trying to get the Elite, it's the fact that CC is one of if not the only major online retailer taking reserves for the system. So basically whatever number they think they are going to get, that is all that is available online right now from a respecible source, so you have all the a**holes that think they can make a killing on ebay selling these systems to people that were unable to get one in stores buying all the reserves on Circuit City, if Best Buy, EB or any of the other ones start taking reserves, this panick will pass. People are already selling them on Amazon for 750 bucks and just a couple days ago it was over 2400 bucks, for the Elite once it launches. If anything, I think the fact that it took the online major online retailer taking reserves the better part of a week to sort of sell out, a testimate to the fact that the Elite won't be crazy to obtain.What your saying make sense. Eb and Game stop as well as best buy are not doing reserves. CC is the only place.
I don't agree. I don't think we're going to have a long term shortage on Elites, regardless of preorders. The ebay jerks will always try to ruin things for us, but I think Microsoft will have a decent supply. They're out to make money, remember? This isn't the same as a console launch - they've gotten good at making the technology, and judging by the pictures dates from back in February of the assembly lines, they've probably been manufacturing these for quite some time now. Remember - this is a $479.95 system launching basically at the beginning of May - what shopping month is that again? We're not going to be fighting parents, kids (too much money), or casuals for these. Just a bunch of hardcore gamers, and the ebay scalpers. Bring your lead pipes boys, anyone without a LIVE ID should meet sweet metallic justice.that sounds good, are they gonna figure out a way forall the game saves to transfer to the elite if u already had a 360Simsdawgythe elite dosn't come with the cable that transfers data from ur old HDD to ur new one but u may be able to buy it off ebay or Microsoft
[QUOTE="jay_k3"][QUOTE="Schumi7WDC"][QUOTE="jay_k3"][QUOTE="SBurns22"]anyone preorder this at circuit city.com yet?subrosian
I did when they first started to take these preorders. I actually called them. Well if you are going to preorder you better do it quick, cause my buddy tried preordering today, and they said that there is no guarentees anymore if you decide to preorder because a lot of people already preordered. I guess there is a mass amount of people trying to get the elite.
It's not a mass amount of people trying to get the Elite, it's the fact that CC is one of if not the only major online retailer taking reserves for the system. So basically whatever number they think they are going to get, that is all that is available online right now from a respecible source, so you have all the a**holes that think they can make a killing on ebay selling these systems to people that were unable to get one in stores buying all the reserves on Circuit City, if Best Buy, EB or any of the other ones start taking reserves, this panick will pass. People are already selling them on Amazon for 750 bucks and just a couple days ago it was over 2400 bucks, for the Elite once it launches. If anything, I think the fact that it took the online major online retailer taking reserves the better part of a week to sort of sell out, a testimate to the fact that the Elite won't be crazy to obtain.What your saying make sense. Eb and Game stop as well as best buy are not doing reserves. CC is the only place.
I don't agree. I don't think we're going to have a long term shortage on Elites, regardless of preorders. The ebay jerks will always try to ruin things for us, but I think Microsoft will have a decent supply. They're out to make money, remember? This isn't the same as a console launch - they've gotten good at making the technology, and judging by the pictures dates from back in February of the assembly lines, they've probably been manufacturing these for quite some time now. Remember - this is a $479.95 system launching basically at the beginning of May - what shopping month is that again? We're not going to be fighting parents, kids (too much money), or casuals for these. Just a bunch of hardcore gamers, and the ebay scalpers. Bring your lead pipes boys, anyone without a LIVE ID should meet sweet metallic justice. I think maybe you didn't understand my post. What I mean, is that those are the people buying the preorders right now because it is the only place, the people that think they can make a killing, but what I am saying, is the fact that it took almost a whole week with only 1 place taking orders to get to the near sold out point, that to me is a sign that the demand won't be crippling, I'm agreeing with you or rather your agreeing with me, that the system should be attainable.[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="jay_k3"][QUOTE="Schumi7WDC"][QUOTE="jay_k3"][QUOTE="SBurns22"]anyone preorder this at circuit city.com yet?Schumi7WDC
I did when they first started to take these preorders. I actually called them. Well if you are going to preorder you better do it quick, cause my buddy tried preordering today, and they said that there is no guarentees anymore if you decide to preorder because a lot of people already preordered. I guess there is a mass amount of people trying to get the elite.
It's not a mass amount of people trying to get the Elite, it's the fact that CC is one of if not the only major online retailer taking reserves for the system. So basically whatever number they think they are going to get, that is all that is available online right now from a respecible source, so you have all the a**holes that think they can make a killing on ebay selling these systems to people that were unable to get one in stores buying all the reserves on Circuit City, if Best Buy, EB or any of the other ones start taking reserves, this panick will pass. People are already selling them on Amazon for 750 bucks and just a couple days ago it was over 2400 bucks, for the Elite once it launches. If anything, I think the fact that it took the online major online retailer taking reserves the better part of a week to sort of sell out, a testimate to the fact that the Elite won't be crazy to obtain.What your saying make sense. Eb and Game stop as well as best buy are not doing reserves. CC is the only place.
I don't agree. I don't think we're going to have a long term shortage on Elites, regardless of preorders. The ebay jerks will always try to ruin things for us, but I think Microsoft will have a decent supply. They're out to make money, remember? This isn't the same as a console launch - they've gotten good at making the technology, and judging by the pictures dates from back in February of the assembly lines, they've probably been manufacturing these for quite some time now. Remember - this is a $479.95 system launching basically at the beginning of May - what shopping month is that again? We're not going to be fighting parents, kids (too much money), or casuals for these. Just a bunch of hardcore gamers, and the ebay scalpers. Bring your lead pipes boys, anyone without a LIVE ID should meet sweet metallic justice. I think maybe you didn't understand my post. What I mean, is that those are the people buying the preorders right now because it is the only place, the people that think they can make a killing, but what I am saying, is the fact that it took almost a whole week with only 1 place taking orders to get to the near sold out point, that to me is a sign that the demand won't be crippling, I'm agreeing with you or rather your agreeing with me, that the system should be attainable. Ah, my bad - yes, I think the relatively high price is going to keep people away from my precious Elites. At least I hope that will be true. As ridiculous as it may sound, since I've been waiting so long for some kind of hardware revision, I would gladly pay more money, even for features I might not get full use of, simply so I can have something different or new. I went and looked at the white 360 today, and I just wasn't feeling the love the same way I am towards the Elite.despite not relating to the elite console, this concerns people buying the new hard drive. before doing so, consult my blog (the only blog post there), it tells you how you can make an external HDD compatible with your 360 (if only for multimedia -ie movies, music, photos, however multimedia is what will be taking up most of the space)
PROTECTED multimedia is what is consuming a great deal of space - and this can't be moved to an external hard drive. USB drives are great for people who need someplace to store a large music and photo collection, but it does little good for the guy who's renting lots of HD movies on Xbox LIVE, or wants every demo ever released available at a moments notice.despite not relating to the elite console, this concerns people buying the new hard drive. before doing so, consult my blog (the only blog post there), it tells you how you can make an external HDD compatible with your 360 (if only for multimedia -ie movies, music, photos, however multimedia is what will be taking up most of the space)
MmMaAaDdDaAaSsS
Now I have one huge mess in my head :?
I already have money for X360 premium version with Crackdown. Now, with no information they released that Elite edition. I mean what tha hell? Should I buy now premium or wait for black beast? That 120gb disk is pretty useful, not sure I will be able to use that HDMI port. Thinking in other way: Is it worth to pay for black color and HDMI? I bet they will release bigger disks in future for some optimal price.Â
 Â
Sorry if what im about to say is already posted, and if it is dont mind this message.
Im just kinda exited that Xbox 360 Elite has been confirmed (at least i think so)
Here is the link:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/xbox360elite.html
It says that it is coming out on May 4,2007 (I feel so damn exited)
Plus i have an origional xbox 360 but it has its overheating and other hardware problems so i would buy the elite. just to replace, since i cant play properly.
If a message like this or with same info is posted, again im sorry
its already announced and is comming out on April 29. and has HDMI 120GB HDD, and black stuff. so i would get the black versionNow I have one huge mess in my head :?
I already have money for X360 premium version with Crackdown. Now, with no information they released that Elite edition. I mean what tha hell? Should I buy now premium or wait for black beast? That 120gb disk is pretty useful, not sure I will be able to use that HDMI port. Thinking in other way: Is it worth to pay for black color and HDMI? I bet they will release bigger disks in future for some optimal price.Â
 Â
_mageta
its been announced and is coming out April 29th search it on Gamespot and theres a whole story on itSorry if what im about to say is already posted, and if it is dont mind this message.
Im just kinda exited that Xbox 360 Elite has been confirmed (at least i think so)
Here is the link:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/xbox360elite.html
It says that it is coming out on May 4,2007 (I feel so damn exited)
Plus i have an origional xbox 360 but it has its overheating and other hardware problems so i would buy the elite. just to replace, since i cant play properly.
If a message like this or with same info is posted, again im sorry
Sumsung
[QUOTE="Sumsung"]its been announced and is coming out April 29th search it on Gamespot and theres a whole story on it without meaning to sound horrible-some people can have some dumb moments eh? there is a thread 40 pages long dedicated to the new elite console, don't they think this info will have been announced many times throughout the thread and there will also be articles on most gamingf sites on the net about this!? thats my little rant over with:)Sorry if what im about to say is already posted, and if it is dont mind this message.
Im just kinda exited that Xbox 360 Elite has been confirmed (at least i think so)
Here is the link:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/xbox360elite.html
It says that it is coming out on May 4,2007 (I feel so damn exited)
Plus i have an origional xbox 360 but it has its overheating and other hardware problems so i would buy the elite. just to replace, since i cant play properly.
If a message like this or with same info is posted, again im sorry
o0George0o
I dont know if this has been asked before because the thread is huge and I cant read it all, but does the 360 elite come with the newer 65nm cpu? I remember reading that the new cpu came out in Jan. 07. I would think that the newer cpu is in them but is it true?Heretic32Your information is incorrect my friend, sadly the 65nm chip will not be a part of the Elite at launch. It was announced in January of 06 that Microsoft would eventually make the switch from 90 to 65 nanometer technology, and at that time, they projected it would be in Q1 of 07, but that has not happened, Microsoft says that despite the HDMI, paint and HDD, that the Elite will have the same guts as the rest of the line. Eventually all of the 360s will have 65nm, but the latest suggestions are that that will not happen until mid summer or fall of this year, so until we hear something reliable, that's the best guess.
[QUOTE="Heretic32"]I dont know if this has been asked before because the thread is huge and I cant read it all, but does the 360 elite come with the newer 65nm cpu? I remember reading that the new cpu came out in Jan. 07. I would think that the newer cpu is in them but is it true?Schumi7WDCYour information is incorrect my friend, sadly the 65nm chip will not be a part of the Elite at launch. It was announced in January of 06 that Microsoft would eventually make the switch from 90 to 65 nanometer technology, and at that time, they projected it would be in Q1 of 07, but that has not happened, Microsoft says that despite the HDMI, paint and HDD, that the Elite will have the same guts as the rest of the line. Eventually all of the 360s will have 65nm, but the latest suggestions are that that will not happen until mid summer or fall of this year, so until we hear something reliable, that's the best guess. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated.
i have a premium xbox 360 and i just bought it last saturday, im just wondering should i return it and get the elite? and do you think i can return it? hahaecuencoYeah, I got mine late January '07 from Target and they have a 90 day return policy, so I may return my box for the Elite but after finding out it's the same guts which means hot running temps, loud ass fan, and crashes and trying to figure out how to transfer my saves leaves me pondering.
[QUOTE="ecuenco"]i have a premium xbox 360 and i just bought it last saturday, im just wondering should i return it and get the elite? and do you think i can return it? hahag5velocityYeah, I got mine late January '07 from Target and they have a 90 day return policy, so I may return my box for the Elite but after finding out it's the same guts which means hot running temps, loud ass fan, and crashes and trying to figure out how to transfer my saves leaves me pondering. It's not the same guts. I am going to get flamed, people who think they are educated are going to "correct" me - but there are important changes going on inside the box that MS is not mentioning to us. Why? Changes happen all the time, the DVD drive, little tiny unnoticed components changing manufacturers, components being combined or removed. They even go back and fix little things they find to be wrong, all in the name of cost cutting. There's one big cost hitting Microsoft right now: repairs. They just promised a one year warranty on all repaired systems, which says to me two things: one, they're getting a lot of complaints about failing 360s, and two, they've isolated something that might be causing 360s to fail, and they know how to fix it. Think about it - let's say 5% (500,000) xbox 360s failed, Microsoft can't offer a one year warranty one repairs unless they know for a fact that those repairs are going to be the last ones they have to do... Not to get conspiracy theory on you, but there are other reasons. The Elite HDMI port requires more than just a quick update, they had to make some serious component changes to the onboard video output. The existing decoder can't do digital output or they would just release a "normal 360 port to HDMI cable" and send out a system update. No... they're making some serious changes in there. And while they're in there, tinkering with the motherboard, they're going to want to reduce repair costs - hence, trying to isolate the source of the problem and fix it. At the same time - it's not that hard for them to make unadvertised interior changes... in the name of both cost cutting (reducing the number of components in the box) and in the name of future cost-cutting, by improving cooling or reducing heat (there are other ways besides a die size decrease) to ensure that these "elite" systems don't get sent back. An entirely different issue is that if you send in a 360 Premium for repair, you can get a refurbished unit sent back, possibly someone else's from a less reliable batch, meaning you can wind up in a cycle of "it broke again" "okay send it back" - with the Elite, even if it were to for some reason break, you're going to get back another Elite - meaning the earliest manufacture date you would get would be from 2007 when they started making Elites. You can never wind up with a refurbished launch unit in the place of your 2007 unit.
[QUOTE="g5velocity"][QUOTE="ecuenco"]i have a premium xbox 360 and i just bought it last saturday, im just wondering should i return it and get the elite? and do you think i can return it? hahasubrosianYeah, I got mine late January '07 from Target and they have a 90 day return policy, so I may return my box for the Elite but after finding out it's the same guts which means hot running temps, loud ass fan, and crashes and trying to figure out how to transfer my saves leaves me pondering. It's not the same guts. I am going to get flamed, people who think they are educated are going to "correct" me - but there are important changes going on inside the box that MS is not mentioning to us. Why? Changes happen all the time, the DVD drive, little tiny unnoticed components changing manufacturers, components being combined or removed. They even go back and fix little things they find to be wrong, all in the name of cost cutting. There's one big cost hitting Microsoft right now: repairs. They just promised a one year warranty on all repaired systems, which says to me two things: one, they're getting a lot of complaints about failing 360s, and two, they've isolated something that might be causing 360s to fail, and they know how to fix it. Think about it - let's say 5% (500,000) xbox 360s failed, Microsoft can't offer a one year warranty one repairs unless they know for a fact that those repairs are going to be the last ones they have to do... Not to get conspiracy theory on you, but there are other reasons. The Elite HDMI port requires more than just a quick update, they had to make some serious component changes to the onboard video output. The existing decoder can't do digital output or they would just release a "normal 360 port to HDMI cable" and send out a system update. No... they're making some serious changes in there. And while they're in there, tinkering with the motherboard, they're going to want to reduce repair costs - hence, trying to isolate the source of the problem and fix it. At the same time - it's not that hard for them to make unadvertised interior changes... in the name of both cost cutting (reducing the number of components in the box) and in the name of future cost-cutting, by improving cooling or reducing heat (there are other ways besides a die size decrease) to ensure that these "elite" systems don't get sent back. An entirely different issue is that if you send in a 360 Premium for repair, you can get a refurbished unit sent back, possibly someone else's from a less reliable batch, meaning you can wind up in a cycle of "it broke again" "okay send it back" - with the Elite, even if it were to for some reason break, you're going to get back another Elite - meaning the earliest manufacture date you would get would be from 2007 when they started making Elites. You can never wind up with a refurbished launch unit in the place of your 2007 unit. Damn, good response!
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