[QUOTE="KillSwitch740"]

So wait, are there people really trying to argue that God exists? It's pointless, just stop. It's completely faith based. I personally do believe in God. But there is no backing or proof that God does in fact exist. So there is really no point in trying to argue to someone that God does exist, but on the other hand, if they can scientifically theorize that things like alternate universes exist, is it really completely out of question that there may be a God, not really. And just because you are religious or not does not mean that you are more likely to be educated, some of the most intelligent people of all time were religious. Look at people like Albert Einstein, Jonas Salk, and many others. Although I do have to say that when it comes to people talking trash, it's usually Christians, and to a disgusting extent. For a religion that is supposedly based on Love it's really backwards. Things that Christians say that piss me off include

1. God hates gays ( actually they are called homosexuals and they are first and foremost people, how can you pass off judgement on someone that has no control over their feelings)

2. Birth Control is wrong ( I find this especially ironic seeing as how they oppose abortion so much, you do realize that Birth Control prevents abortion)

3. Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus ( last I checked I wasn't the one that nailed him to a cross, oh and technically it was the Romans)

Funky_Llama

That is perhaps the most damning support of Christianity I have seen in a week.

Still, nice to see some tolerant, liberal Christianity.

Wait a minute....

I spent the last 3 hours trying to tell you these points I bolded, yet you kept ignoring me, but the second the words don't come from me they make perfect sense? It is not just me you tend to ignore, you do the same thing to a few other Christians on this board. It seems like you are an atheist just to simply get a rise out of Christians.:?

You didn't until I pointed it out. Before it was 'You can't prove that God doesn't exist!' The Big Bang has been proven by blueshift and redshift.

As I said before, and provided evidence for, atheists are more likely to be intelligent.

Funky_Llama

I still think you can't prove that God doesn't exist, which means you cant say for sure either way.

Blueshift and redshift does not prove that the big bang happened, only that the galaxies are moving.

I looked at your "evidence" of IQ vs Religiosity, and that is horrible evidence. It has one major variable that completely changes the whole chart, and that is countries. People in the USA are generally going to be smarter than a 3rd world country because of the education system, regardless of Religion. That is like me saying whites are generally smarter than black because they have a higher average IQ world wide. That is only true because you are factoring all those countries with a poor education system in africa into the equation.

[QUOTE="FatMan1945"]

Religion is based on faith, but not irrationality.

luke1889

Look up the definition of irrational.

Clicky

Couldn't it also be said that Atheists are irrational thinking that this world, and our existance came by accident?

I have NEVER rejected science. I believe in evolution and the big-bang is still a theory.

FatMan1945

Look up the definition of a scientific theory.

I did. What does that change?

The thing that most atheists can't see is the fact that Science and Religion can co-exist peacefully.

FatMan1945

I guess they can but science does not assume religion.

And yes, Atheism is a religion, whether you want it to be or not.

FatMan1945

No it is not. Here's why:

- No god,
- No common belief (elaboration: we simply do not believe in anything)
- No laws,
- No churches,
- No rituals,
- No conception of spirituality,
- No scripture,
- No priesthood,
- No tradition,
- No holidays,
- No religion-specific clothing,
- No afterlife concept,
- No creation myth.

Your assertion that we (or some of us) openly state that there is no god is governed by the rules of the burden of proof as we have discussed earlier.

Now let me leave you with a favourite quote amongst us atheists:

"I submit that we are all atheists; I just believe in one less god than you do."

I realize that we have the burden of proof, but you also cannot say that there is not a God just because we can't prove him. We can't prove that the big-bang happened, yet many atheists believe in the theory.

Also, the quote you mentioned is EXACTLY what I am talking about. We are all the same, no matter what we believe in. It does not make any one group smarter than another. We are just different, yet we are still equal, both physically and mentally.

Atheism is a religion? Here's a definition of religion from on online dictionary: "a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny". You lose. Atheists do not believe in the supernatural.

Funky_Llama

Are you getting a little defensive? Mad that I am actually making good and not to mention valid points. I can tell by your overuse of laughing smileys that I ruffled your feathers a bit. One more thing I wanted to point out was the part I selected in the quote. You say that I reject certain parts of science, yet you turn around and find a quote that works best for your argument, yet ignore the rest of the description. Here is the FIRST description at Dictionary.com

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe

That right there is proof that Atheism is a religion.
P.S.- Thanks for also proving my point about maturity. At least we agree on something.

:roll: OK, you are, with almost complete certainty, wrong. Happy now?

As for intelligence, atheists on average are more intelligent than Christians. ;)

A hole in the Bible wouldn't necessarily prove religion wrong, although it would, I suppose, prove that the Bible is not the Word of God. But anyway, I digress. Explain how with 'atheist logic' you proved me wrong.

Science is based on reason and evidence; religion is based on faith and irrationality. Anyone who is rational would have no trouble working out which is right. Besides, can you honestly claim to reject science? Do you deny the existence of atoms? Do you, perhaps, refuse to accept that the Sun is the source of energy on earth? No, of course not. You reject science whenever it's convenient to you, and nothing more.

By the way, there's no such thing as spiritual proof.

Funky_Llama

Yes, I am happy. At least you acknowledged the fact that I could be right.

Find me a statistic that proves that atheists are, on average, smarter than Christians. Some of the most brilliant people to have ever lived were religious. Saying one type of person is smarter than another just by their belief in God is ridiculous.

Religion is based on faith, but not irrationality.

I have NEVER rejected science. I believe in evolution and the big-bang is still a theory. I do not pick and choose. The thing that most atheists can't see is the fact that Science and Religion can co-exist peacefully. But you are too stubborn to want that and want everyone to believe in your religion. And yes, Atheism is a religion, whether you want it to be or not. Atheism makes up theories to how the universe started just like Christianity did.

I have been mature and have told you multiple times that Atheists and Christians are just the same, only one believes in God, while the other doesn't. Yet you keep acting as though Atheists are soo much more smarter than Christians. I am atleast being open-minded and nice about this, while you are not. You, as an atheist, are a close-minded, ignorant person who sees just want you want to see, and reject everything else. You are the EXACT same kind of person as the people you are trying to insult.

I would do a lot of research before switching to it. It is a great operating system, but nothing close to xp/vista. It really depends on what you are using it for. Are you going to play PC games on it? If the answer is yes, then do NOT switch to linux. If you are just using it for regular usage (such as browsing the internet, making word documents, etc.) then linux is adequate. It has a lot of great features, but it is still a rough and unreliable OS.

Do not worry about if Ubuntu will run on your machine or not. Ubuntu is designed to run great on almost ANY hardware, and your laptop looks to be a beast, so don't worry.

I tend to hold a slight grudge against Ubuntu because I tried installing it 4 times and each time it crashed my harddrive taking XP and all my files down with it. I have used it for quite a few hours though and I have to say, if you can get it installed and are not trying to dual-boot, then Ubuntu is quite nice. The customization that you can achieve is 10x better than any other OS, and the amount of free stuff that comes with it is awe-inspiring.

My opinion is-

As long as you aren't using your computer for gaming, then I would definitaly try it out. It is a difficult OS to get used to, and the install pisses me off, but if you can get past that, then this is a great OS to use and I don't think you will regret switching to it.

No, no, you=wrong, me=right.

What do I have faith in then? Also, I'm not 100% sure that there isn't a God, so stop making assumptions. I don't think one could be 100% sure in anything, really. But as far as I'm concerned, the chance of God's existence is so low, I can discount it, to all intents and purposes.

And yes, it is a fallacy. People are idiots; their beliefs prove nothing. Look. Fallacy.

:lol: You just 'proved' my 'faith' 'wrong', did you? It'd be the first time in history. Please prove, then, the existence of miracles.

Funky_Llama

See, why say I am wrong when you don't know for 100% sure. You can think I am wrong, but there is no way of knowing until we die.

Yes, people are idiot, atheists and christians alike. We are both equally stupid (I like to think equally smart). Not believing in God doesn't make you more intelligent than anyone else.

I said with atheist logic I proved you wrong. Doesn't mean I did. It is just the second a hole crops up in the Bible or something similar, atheists immediately jump to it thinking it automatically proves religion wrong.

We both believe in something. You believe in Science; I believe in God. You need factual proof; I need spiritual proof. You base what is right by numbers and letters; I base what is right by my conscious and my soul Neither is more illogical than the other, and both have their problems. Christians just think differently than Atheists. That is not bad, nor does it show any signs of "unintelligence" on anyones part.

In other words, atheists are right about a bit; you're wrong about a lot. ;)

The Burden of Proof is on the believer and the strong atheist because both of these are asserting that God does not exist. Thus, without proof either way, the rational - which you claim to be - position to take would be weak atheism, ie simply not believing in God, although not asserting his nonexistence. By the way, the thing about "which is why they are still many Christians and many Atheists" is called argumentum ad populum and is a logical fallacy. So much for rationality.

I can and do believe in what I don't see. Otherwise, I would have to deny the existence of love, hydrogen and light, among other things. What is your explanation for these miracles? What are they? I've certainly never heard of any. And even if they were unexplainable, they certainly wouldn't lead to God. They would prove that either science was wrong or that the supernatural is possible, but I fail to see how it would lead to the existence of a Judeo-Abrahamic God and the worship thereof in line with the Bible.

Funky_Llama

No, Athiests are wrong by a bit; Christians are wrong by a bit.

Both athiesm and christianity both have faith in something, so neither is ever going to be right. Both have their problems, and both have holes in their theories. The main difference is, is that I do not act like I am 100% positive there is a god, but you act as though you are 100% sure there ISN'T a God. Which tends to make me think I am more rational.

Also, the "which is why there are still many christians and atheists" isn't a fallacy, it is just a simple observatiion that shows obvously there is a good and legitimate reason why millions of people believe in God.

Miracles may not prove there is a God, but they certainly disprove 'science' which is your faith, so by an atheists' reasoning, I just proved your faith wrong.

Yes, and they are illogical. I'm sure it is comforting to you but that doesn't make it true; see, that's just the kind of irrationality typical of Christians. What if I tell you that I have a calmness of my soul that lets me know the existence of the Tooth Fairy? You'd probably laugh, and quite reasonably too. But in the case of religion, we're numbed to it.

No, you think that there is more to this existence then you will ever know. You have given - and I don't think you will - no rational reason for your Theism.

By the way, how do you know it's the Christian God that you're feeling with the calmness of your soul?

Funky_Llama

Here is another problem with atheists. You guys think like a laser. You can easily see what the laser is pointing at but that is all you see. Christians think more like a flashlight. We are less accurate, but we see many things that atheists choose not to see, or just simply ignore. I know that was a HORRIBLE analogy, but still, I think it got my point across.

Again, there is also no rational reason for your Atheism. It works both ways, which is why they are still many Christians and many Atheists.

I know you don't want to believe what you cant see, but sometimes things go beyond science, and beyond the physical laws that govern this universe. If you choose to accept that or not is your choice, but miracles happen that NOBODY can explain. You may say that they are luck, or make up a theory as to why these happen, but sometimes it is more complicated than science can ever hope to explain.

Congratulations. You've taken the 10 commandments and acted like they alone are what Christians live by. By the way, 2, 3 and 4 are stupid and outdated.

It is certainly illogical. I have never seen a logical justification for belief in God that made sense.

Nothing keeps an atheist from killing someone they hate, apart from morality.

Have you considered, say terrorism? Have you considered that, were it not for the religious sects in Iraq, it would probably be peaceful there now? Have you considered the Church's supression of science and music for centuries? How about the The Troubles in Northern Ireland, where it was no unusual for religious gangs to kneecap those who followed a different denomination? Religious is by no means harmless, I can assure you.

Funky_Llama

I have not seen any logical justification for me NOT to believe in God either.

Your third point is exactly what I was talking about. People wil find ANY REASON to justify atrocities, and religion just happened to be their scape-goat. Also, the terrorists follow a religion that rewards them for killing, while Christianity does not, so the comparison is ridiculous. People kill people, not religion. Someone can go out right now and kill everyone they see in the name of Sam Adams. Does that mean Sam Adams just killed all those people? No, the same applies to religion.