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Plzhelpmelearn

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#1 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts
[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"]I meant unjustified, my bad. A thousand years is an extreme exxageration, and it is not just the amount of casualties, but also the acts of aggression from the leaders in gaza.Hewkii
no, the rockets literally kill like 3-4 people a year. 9/11 was ~3500, if I remember right.

yea it was almost 3,000 . So you think Israel should just concede and accept rocket attacks as a part of daily life until they get something that can kill more people?
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#2 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts
[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"]Could you please show me an objective link claiming 1500 people were killed by white phosphorus. Rocket attacks that kill people are not acts of vandalism and when you claim that an attack that takes even one human life is vandalism, you are letting your bias show Hewkii
1500 was hyperbole, but that was more to show that "holy crap, why are they using white phosphorus" (and yes, it is technically legal, but it's pretty disgusting to use). dude, just admit that Israel used extremely disproportionate force, and has been doing so for decades. this stopped being about self defense in 1967.

again, what would you like Israel to do? The force may be disproportionate, but that has as much to do wit the fact that Israel has that much more force than Gaza. If you think about Hamas is probably using 100% of their potential force while if Israel did, Gaza wouldn't exist. What would you have Israel to do to stop the attacks?
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#3 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts
Sounds like things got out of control. A msn article said the Israelis claimed they were attacked with knives when they boarded? I'm sure more facts will be forthcoming. Elraptor
there are videos posted in this thread of the actual boarding. You can see the Israeli soldier being mobbed upon boarding the ship and thrown off the top deck.
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#4 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts
[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"]

Also, America had an attack that cost a few hundred American civillians and it ultimately led to the invasion of two countries. I know most people, including myself, believe the iraq war was justified, almost everyone believes the afghanistan war was.

Hewkii
who believes Iraq is justified these days? plus, 9/11 killed more people than Hamas could in literally a thousand years. that's how crappy the rockets are.

I meant unjustified, my bad. A thousand years is an extreme exxageration, and it is not just the amount of casualties, but also the acts of aggression from the leaders in gaza.
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#5 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts
[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"] I used North Korea and Iran as examples because I bet you would sympathize with them in a heart beat against their tyrannical democratic counterparts.Hewkii
no, you used them because they're the closest parallels.

I don't think France, Britain, Spain, or any country would be too understanding of constant rocket attacks coming over their border from another.

the 'rocket attacks' is basically analogous to vandalism, and most countries don't kill 1500 people with white phosphorus because their building got spray painted.

Could you please show me an objective link claiming 1500 people were killed by white phosphorus. Rocket attacks that kill people are not acts of vandalism and when you claim that an attack that takes even one human life is vandalism, you are letting your bias show. White phosphorus was way out of line and Israel should be reprimanded for it, though in their defense it is NOT illegal and was even used by America and Britain. Every country has the right to a secure border and to use the means necessary to secure it.
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#6 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts

Also, America had an attack that cost a few hundred American civillians and it ultimately led to the invasion of two countries. I know most people, including myself, believe the iraq war was unjustified, but almost everyone believes the afghanistan war was.

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#7 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts
[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"]should they use sticks and home made rockets to even the fight up? Israel has gone overboard in recent years, but I see it as the result of pent up frustration over many years of having their people murdered by terrorists who want to see Israel wiped off the face of the map. Any other nation in the world who had to put up with as much as Israel has in terms of terrorism and rocket attacks from over their border would have done probably worse. Could you imagine if a country shot rockets into Iran or south Korea into north Korea, or even Mexico into the united states? All hell would break loose and we would blame the rocket firers at that point. Hewkii
actually, that's the funny thing. this exact incident happened in the US and we still managed to kill fewer people than the Israelis. oh, good job comparing Israel to North Korea and Iran. it really provides context as to the type of administration we're dealing with.

hahaha that is hardly the exact incident. The attack was in mexico it seems and it was an entirely different world at that point. I used North Korea and Iran as examples because I bet you would sympathize with them in a heart beat against their tyrannical democratic counterparts. I don't think France, Britain, Spain, or any country would be too understanding of constant rocket attacks coming over their border from another.
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#8 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts
[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"] At the end of the day both sides have done terrible things.Hewkii
one side isn't enforcing a de facto Apartheid state against the other with a modern military, though. guess which one.

should they use sticks and home made rockets to even the fight up? Israel has gone overboard in recent years, but I see it as the result of pent up frustration over many years of having their people murdered by terrorists who want to see Israel wiped off the face of the map. Any other nation in the world who had to put up with as much as Israel has in terms of terrorism and rocket attacks from over their border would have done probably worse. Could you imagine if a country shot rockets into Iran or south Korea into north Korea, or even Mexico into the united states? All hell would break loose and we would blame the rocket firers at that point.
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#9 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts

[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"][QUOTE="lordreaven"] Touchelordreaven
Be defining the present situation by past actions can be very misleading as well. We can only look at the facts of this incident in determining who is at fault or deserves how much blame. I personally did not watch your documentary, because Michael Moore has taught me how misleading and skewed documentaries can be. At the end of the day both sides have done terrible things.

I just got owned, well played.

Are you referring to me or squats? Watching propaganda lace documentaries only serves to try and get you to choose a side before you understand the situation, thus automatically skewing you to see every incident already agreeing with one side. Looking at the facts of a particular incident is what this thread is supposed to be about. When you do that, the only problem I see is that Israel did not wait until they were closer to Gaza.

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#10 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts

[QUOTE="SquatsAreAwesom"][QUOTE="lordreaven"]Okay, we are not disscusing whether Israel is a terrorist state or not, we a disscusing if this was legal. Don't start posting things irrelevant to the disscusion. Thank you.lordreaven
This is related as it describes the mentality of the Israelis, and the events that are occurring today and the excuses are mirrors of what happened two years ago. You cannot understand the present without understanding the past.

Touche

But defining the present situation by past actions can be very misleading as well. We can only look at the facts of this incident in determining who is at fault or deserves how much blame. I personally did not watch your documentary, because Michael Moore has taught me how misleading and skewed documentaries can be. At the end of the day both sides have done terrible things.