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ShenlongBo

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#1 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

Hey Martial, very nice matches man. You're one hell of a patient dude, I'll tell you that. Like I said, I won't be home tomorrow, so I'll use that time to upload the vids. Can't wait to run with ya again!

...still can't believe the camera cut out during my best match! :lol: That's how it goes, I guess.

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ShenlongBo

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#2 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

Just a heads-up for everyone: come Monday, I should have a handful of new vids up. This time, it'll be me playing random ranked matches as well as my bouts for the upcoming online tournament this Sunday (check out the SFIV forums at Giantbomb.com if you're interested. Not much room left though).

Also, Martial, I didn't mean to ignore you earlier man. I would have loved to play, actually. I was idle on the game when you messaged me and my stereo was muted, so I didn't even hear the message alert pop up. Anyway, if you catch me on tonight, hit me up. If not, I'll be on again Sunday.

Oh, and YAY FOR ME! I get to knock one more character off the "remaining" list in my sig and add it to the "completed" side. Seth is DONE! WHOO!

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#3 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

Something else that I am not getting, so maybe I might be idiotic here. But why do people insist on using the same kind of pattern in their gaming over and over again? I see that SLB and DC use pretty much the same moves on each other in their matches. It makes me wonder if, in a real tournament, such as Evolution, if the better players, like Valle or Daigo, fall for that strategy or not take it at all. Sure, I understand the concept - if it works, don't change it. I get that, don't get me wrong. But with any strategy, people can figure out a way to expose weakness out of that strategy and dominate you for the entire portion of the match. So aren't some of the players better off in mixing up their game instead of doing the same thing, over and over again? This isn't just a question for DC or SLB, it's for anybody really.

Metamania

Good call man, there is a lot of repetition in the videos, but it's not as robotic as it might appear. The easiest answer is yes, top players tend to have bread-and-butter strategies that they try to implement at every opportunity. Daigo, for example, never skips the opportunity to use LP Shoryu > Focus Attack Dash Cancel > Ultra. At the same time, there is a strict demand for elasticity, as well as the ability to switch tactics on the fly (this is actually one of the strength I have that make me a decent player). I'll try to explain.

When you watch me specifically, I'm sure you can't help but notice how much I use EX Rush Punch > dash > Tatsumaki Gorasen. I do it over and over and over, with very little change. There are other variations I could use, like EX Rush Punch > Rush Punch but the reason I do the one and not the other is simple: payoff. That Tatsumaki Gorasen variation nets the most normal damage and stun damage, and there's nothing else in Gouken's arsenal that can compete with it for the same amount of meter. Not that I know of, anyway, and believe me, I've checked.

So for me, the strategy lies in trying to find a place to put that EX RP. I can't just throw it anywhere I want, because any player can get good at avoiding it if I'm not sneaky with it. There are a handful of tricks I can use for it: Demon Flip Kick, jump-in FK/FP, cross-up MK, and fireball punish (it goes through fireballs if you time it right). I think the exclamation points for Gouken in all those matches are the big combos, but the actual skill comes in between - trying to put a stop to DC's neverending rushdown, recognizing the holes where I can get the EX RP in, counterpoking. There is actually a lot more going on in my head, and in the matches, than simple-minded attempts at landing that combo.

Now, there are other tactics that I don't use simply because I haven't yet gotten good enough to implement them efficiently. You see the first one in the first match where I go EX RP > Focus Attack Dash Cancel > Ultra. Actually nailing the Ultra in the "sweet spot" in that combo is still a pain for me, so I usually opt out (for the record, after reviewing the vids and talking with DC, I've resolved to get that locked into my arsenal). Another one is Tatsumaki Gorasen > Focus Attack Dash Cancel > Ultra. This would actually be a great option to have available to me when I only have two blocks of SC meter instead of the three I need for my "main" combo. Again, though, I just haven't worked on it enough for it to be dependable yet. All this said, though, even if I had these techniques down pat, you'd still see a lot of the usual combo out of me for the same reason as mentioned before: the payoff is just too good to pass up.

Another thing worth mentioning is that I actually use a few more tricks against other players, but DC is inexplicably good at not letting them work on him. Gouken has a guaranteed Ultra out of his back throw, for example, but DC was so good at keeping away that any time I did manage to grab him, I just went with the forward throw because it caught me off guard that I'd actually gotten the grab. Against other people, I back throw all day. DC also tends to know what I'm up to when I use Demon Flip too (whether I'll kick, sweep, or grab - I tend to surprise him with the parry though), so that's also of minimal use against him. When I post videos of me playing other people, hopefully I'll be able to show off a bit more, heh. DC just tends not to put up with shenanigans.

Anyway man, that's my spiel. I'm glad you asked me, by the way, and I'm not the least bit offended that you called it out how you saw it. It's actually nice to have the opportunity to talk about my game a bit, so thanks. You can catch me on Xbox Live (gamertag is ii axxess ii), and I'm always interested in playing all the GameSpot regulars. Send me an invite if you like, and we can put some matches in.

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ShenlongBo

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#4 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

In no particular order:

StarFox 64
Mike Tyson's Punch-out!!
Yo! Noid
Silkworm
Tiny Toon Adventures
Street Fighter II (all variations)
Mortal Kombat 3
Killer Instinct
Diddy Kong Racing
Mario Kart
Tetris
Double-Dragon
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 3
Pac-Man
Wrath of the Black Manta
Toejam 'n Earl
Toejam 'n Earl 2: Panic on Funkatron
Super Dodge Ball
Super Spike Volleyball/whatever soccer game was on it. I forget the name, but it was sweet.
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World

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ShenlongBo

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#5 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

Hey Kreatzion, good matches man. Can't wait to see the vids.

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ShenlongBo

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#6 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

After reading some of these posts....wow...I still have a lot to learn about SF4.

ChrisSpartan117

People will be gleaning new tidbits of info on SF4 for a long time to come. Some of it will be minute, some of it may be game-changing. That's just how it goes.

I like your sig, btw, although I'd have said "playing" instead of "wanting."

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#7 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

On the SGS, you can't do it in 2 inputs. The left or right motion has to be inputted after the second LP.

Kreatzion

I didn't even know you could combine ANY of the taps in SGS. Cool to know.

Getting back to what DC asked, yes, I'm going to upload the Virtua Fighter vids from way back when. This will include bouts between me and DC, Kreatzion, and DeShae. I think I'm going to upload them exclusively to YouTube though, since it's way faster to do it that way, and it's easier to organize my videos there.

Anyone gonna be on tonight for some matches?

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#8 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

[QUOTE="ShenlongBo"]

I don't think ASK was saying he wants all of his games to be drowning in Nintendo atmosphere, just that it sucks for a company who built its reputation on charm back in the NES days to get outcIassd by a company that doesn't even do this kind of game in the first place. You know?

One final thought about Nintendo's momentum: I agree with you, but I look at it differently. Remember that Nintendo had a hard-fought battle back to the top, but they didn't use guys like us to get there. You're right, they're not going to blow their lead by ignoring the people who put them on top. Trouble is, we ain't those people. Think about it.

Phantom_Leo

I know exactly what Ask was saying...

--BUT-- Everyone is worrying that IF Nintendo appeals SOLELY to the "casuals" that have put them back on top now, we the core fans are no longer going to get the "core" games we have grown to know and love from them.

I just don't believe that to be true.

The mountains of cash they are now sitting on from their current success and market --WILL-- produce the games we love --AND-- games for the casuals too. It is just taking longer now (development time wise) for those games to be produced, so we are watching all of the bin games hit the shelves by the truckloads while we have to patiently wait. It probably took more time to produce the score of Mario Galaxy alone than it takes to make and put out the typical motion control party game that mostly everyone else is producing.

Keep in mind, it was ALWAYS Nintendo's strategy to get the "casuals" hooked with "vanilla" simplicity, THEN gradually introduce more of their core concepts to the games... to make them more "core" if you will... They are not trying to "lose" us... they are just trying to "add" them to US; to simply make EVERYONE in the world a "gamer" they can and eventually will sell games to...

I have been a Nintendo fan all of my life. I always will be. I think they are doing an incredible job out there!

I could be wrong about Nintendo, I don't hesitate to admit, and frankly I hope that I am. I loved the days when Nintendo was making everything I loved. However, I just happen to think they may have discovered something drastic in their upswing: they don't need me. I don't think they'll ever go out of their way to lose any audience, but if the core players turn out to be casualties in the war for the casual dollar, I don't think Nintendo will do much about it. Only time will tell.

As far was what ASK was saying, I feel ya. Pokemon Puzzle League is still there for me to love. Just try to think about it from our perspective though: why would Nintendo even bother to put out a humdrum game in that case? Surely the people at Nintendo also realize that Pokemon Puzzle League is still around, right? So why the half-assed effort on a new, similar game? Call my a cynic, but I think the fact that Nintendo has been pulling in money by the truckload with minimal effort (all the while only going par for the couse on "our" titles) is a major factor. Again, I'm just some guy calling it the way he sees it, and I don't defend this as absolute truth, it's just my interpretation of the climate.

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#9 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

Let me Ask you a question Ask:

Why does it matter?

As long as you get your game, why does it matter if it's Henry Hatsworth or Wario?

Would Gunstar Heroes have been better if Mario was holding the gun? Did Konami take a chance making a CastleVania game using the proven Metroid formula?

In this day and age; the economic climate we are currently in, Nintendo is still making money. They are doing it by being smart. They are managing their consoles wisely, letting others shine and put out quality 3rd party products...

...yes there are bin games. Those bin games fund the creation of bigger budget core games. Have you ever watched a kid play a bin game? THEY LIKE THEM! Who are we to tell them otherwise?

Nintendo makes money off of MadWorld, House of the Dead: Overkill, Deady Creatures, Rune Factory: Frontier and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, as much as they do Cooking Mama, Jake Power: Fireman and Grey's Anatomy. They take that money and take their time making the next Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess.

They manage their consoles and make money off of others making money. It's the way business happens outside of the realm of videogames and consoles. Would you rather they NOT do this, pump out a Zelda every year till gamers are tired of the series and take a loss on a franchise they rely on?

I wish everyone would look at their game collection and realize THERE ARE ALREADY MORE GAMES THAN WE HAVE TIME TO PLAY AS IT IS. Do you have absolutely nothing else to play? Then why are you pining for that next Tetris Attack? Ignore the garbage. Enjoy what you have. Explore ideas outside of Nintendo's franchises, and let them do their thing.

You may not like how they are doing it, but don't mess with Nintendo's success. You will still get your great games from them, I PROMISE you. It was an uphill battle for them to get back to the top of the console market; they are not going to do something stupid and reckless to lose their momentum now. More so than any other company out there they plan, research and innovate their way to areas not yet reached by any other manufacturer. We may not always comprehend what's on their minds, but you can't deny the millions of systems sold in the last few years.

Think of it this way: Did we know about Excitebots a month or two ago? Nope! Is it going to be a quality release put out by Nintendo. Yup. Mario and Luigi 3 is looming somewhere out there. Rhythm Heaven is an unknown variable right now that may turn out to be a new successful franchise for the US. Who knows what they are going to do with the DSi and their apps yet...

Try not to focus so much on your disappointments and open your eyes to the potential that may be sitting right under your nose!

Phantom_Leo

ASK may not have made his point the way he was trying to. Then again, it could be me who's misinterpreting, but let me give this a shot.

There was a game on the N64 called Pokemon Puzzle Leage that I loved like a human baby. It, similar Henry Hatsworth, was actually Tetris Attack at its core. I loved the game because I'd never seen a puzzle game like that (totally missed Tetris Attack), and I found it extremely engaging, especially once I started getting big combos. The fact that it was skinned with a Pokemon theme was just a nifty bonus (I liked Pokemon at the time), and I enjoyed the characters, but it was the gameplay that really grabbed me.

When Planet Puzzle League dropped, I just had to have it. What I quickly realized was that... it was boring. It was the same Tetris Attack, but just like ASK said, it was just plain vanilla. No, sugarless plain vanilla. I was really stunned by how quickly I lost interest in the game, and I eventually realized it was because the game had absolutely zero personality. I'm an all-gameplay-eff-the-rest kind of guy and all, but I have to admit, there's a lot to be said for presentation.

I don't think ASK was saying he wants all of his games to be drowning in Nintendo atmosphere, just that it sucks for a company who built its reputation on charm back in the NES days to get outcIassd by a company that doesn't even do this kind of game in the first place. You know?

One final thought about Nintendo's momentum: I agree with you, but I look at it differently. Remember that Nintendo had a hard-fought battle back to the top, but they didn't use guys like us to get there. You're right, they're not going to blow their lead by ignoring the people who put them on top. Trouble is, we ain't those people. Think about it.

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ShenlongBo

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#10 ShenlongBo
Member since 2004 • 3800 Posts

Leo, dude... love what you did with the first page :D. You took it so much further - and made it so much better - than I would have. I appreciate the hype on the match vids too.

To answer your question, Ask, the truth is that I've never actually played in a true fighting game tournament EVER. Not one. I wish I had, but I haven't. I got good by playing against other really good players who could hold their own in the tournament scene - guys like DeShae, Gary, Brian, and of course DarkCatalyst. I feel like I'm a strong player, but I have quite a few kinks to work out before I'll be a really, really scary competitor. Thanks all the same though.

Martial, I'll be on again tonight playing against DeShae after I make the kids some dinner and get them in bed. If you're on and you feel like playing, send me a message. And if you want to record, the camera's ready :)

Hey GME, that's about the best compliment a Gouken player can get, so thanks!

I really appreciate the props, and I'm glad you were feelin' the videos everyone. Just so you know, I created an account on YouTube that will have these videos (and more, so if anyone wants to check it out, subscribe, rate, whatever, look up AxxesS9000.