I personally hope that this game isn't cancelled or taken off of shelves and I'll tell you why. Is it gorey? Yes. Somewhat disturbing? Potentially, however from all 29 screenshots that IGN has of the game and the videos. But I'll let you in on something: THIS IS NOTHING NEW. Does anyone remember when a game called "SOLDIER OF FORTUNE" came out? The impressions that people had of the game? The idea that you could hack away a body to being less than nothing, or shooting off the limbs of virtual characters? Guess what happened when it came out. Take a wild guess. That's right: NOTHING. It had no impact on anyone, noone went out and caused a massive killing spree, parents still found their kids to be safe and right in the head, and noone got hurt.

Nintendo is doing nothing wrong. It's released games such as Timesplitters: future perfect (I found the multiplayer to be MUCH more gorey than anything I'd scene in halo or elsewhere) and Perfect Dark 64, both of which didn't have a problem.

 

I'm firmly convinced Manhunt 2 is nothing more than a game. Does it present a different take on it's storyline? Yes, but this is no reason to censor it. If anything I think that mental health specialists are too lenient on kids and adults. The media should have no effect on people; people have an effect on people. I'm sure most of us saw the movie "Saw", and we all came back fine from that. Manhunt 2 should be no different.

scorpionldr

 I can't argue anymore with these types of posts. I don't feel like reiterating the same thing but in a different context any longer. I would actually love for you to go into further detail on how mental health specialists (or better known as practicioners- psychologists and psychiatrists) are being too lenient on kids and adults as they prescribe SSRIs, other forms of anti-depresants, and aderol/ridiline cocktails in record amounts. Social and Cognitive psychological studies have also been pretty consistant coerelating long exposure to violent media and higher observable anger within test subjects. Although, admittingly, coerelation does not equal causation- its a good marker. Media DOES have an effect on people, too. FACT. Its so abundant you don't even realize its impacy. You become oblivious to it. The effect within each individual deends on the particular individual.

[QUOTE="lightmonkey"]

I'm not saying it's immorral to play the game. However the concepts, themes and ideas of the game are. Immorrality isn't bounded by real life or artificiality; an immoral idea is an immoral idea, plain and simple. Murder doesn't become a good deed as soon as it's all fake does it?

FireEmblem_Man

Sure Manhunt 2 has immoral themes, but you know what??? It's just a game and it won't have an effect on your moral views!!! If you are a messed up person and you copy everything on the media, then it's something you should stay away from!!! Our society is lacking of common sense these days!!!

Well then, I appoint you to monitor the hundreds of thousands of copies of Manuhunt 2 that are sold to people. Your job, if you choose to accept it, will be to determine if indeed these people are instable, potentially disturbed, indifferent parents, or highly impressionable.  Perhaps you'd like to take a course in psychological profiling first so you don't feel in over your head on your first day? "But thats impossible! Only an individual can determine if he/she is morally sound and psychological fit for this game! Its their personal choice!" I had an internship my senior year in a check-in psych home...many of those people didn't even understand why they were being checked-in in the first place. Some deeply disturbed individuals swore they were fine...when it was obvious they were not. Many people who are susceptible to these types of images don't even realize they are. So its up to you my friend to make sure it doesn't get into the wrong hands as to make these "fringe" people susceptible to causing harm on innocent people and in turn violating these innocent people's own personal freedoms, morals, and right to live. Good luck, Godspeed.

[QUOTE="WhoaNellie32"][QUOTE="TreyoftheDead"][QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]

People, I understand censorship is not good, it brings us closer to the censorship found in other countries. But Manhunt 2 just crossed the line of human decency. It's a tender line that some of us in society is trying to preserve, to protect children and impressionable kids who are the future leaders when we grow old. We are not like Iraqi regime tryingt o censor natural human rights like voting or political talk, we are just trying to exercise some control over the tasteful and good entertainments from the compltely trashy and useless entertainment.

TreyoftheDead

PanicAtack already covered your first paragraph adequately, so I'll tackle the second.

Why is it trash and useless? Because of your personal morals? What about people who do not think Manhunt 2 is trashy and useless? Those people have the right to play it, just as you have the right not to play it. That line you believe it has crossed is very subjective. Even though it crosses it based on your morals, it may be no where near crossing it based on the morals of another person. What right do you or anyone else have to say people cannot play it when it doesn't cause you any harm? Because you don't think it's "decent"?

You don't have that right.

I can't even believe this post. I honestly cannot believe the audacity of this post. The people I think he is speaking (that obviously includes himself) for accounts for about .01% of the human population. What an incredible lack of GENERAL human decency and a perfect instance of extreme individualism. This level of ignorance on a moral issue reminds me of a day when I was in middle school and I stayed home sick with strep. My family didn't get cable, so the only thing on tv was an incredibly awful talk show hosted by RoseAnne Arnold. On that show, there was a discussion about some moral issue and an audience member maliciously asked another, "how do you know I've sinned? You don't know me. How do you know I have sinned before?" Even as a middle schooler this sounded like the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We are all human, and we have all made mistakes. It is a fundamental element of being human. It is a reasonable assumption that a 40 year old woman has "sinned' before...Reading this last post, this ignorance seems par for the course of that ridiculous show...

So, taking your stance, because everyone has their own "subjective" viewpoint on morality, lets never draw a line or think about the COMMON GOOD FOR THE MAJORITY OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS! INSTEAD, LETS WORRY ABOUT APPEASING TO THE SMALL MAJORITY WHO FIND THESE TYPES OF ENTERTAINMENT MORALLY ACCEPTIBLE (IF THEY EVEN HAVE ANY SORT OF MORAL STANDARD TO BEGIN WITH) AND GET OUR JOLLIES FROM THIS SORT OF SMUT BECAUSE WE'RE INDIVIDUALS WHO THINK IT IS OK, AND DESPITE BEING AN EXTREME MINORITY WITH (LETS BE HONEST) OUR OWN INTERESTS IN MIND, WE WILL OVERLOOK THE MANY MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THIS ENTERTAINMENT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT INFRINGE UPON OUR ALREADY SHAKY MORAL COMPASS....Hey, because we can, why not? Its up to the individual to decide if its right for him, right? In theory, in a perfectly organized society yes, but sadly, the world doesn't work like that. At the end of the day, an individual doesn't make up and dictate the state of a whole society. The better whole and well being of the society is what is ultimately important.

You act as if morality should cease to exist because...nevermind....i will NOT let myself go into detail anymore with such a...nevermind...

Oh man, I was going to stop for the night, but as I cannot sleep and due to the content of your response I must respond.

First of all, why did you feel the need to cap most of your post? Are you yelling at me? Please do not yell, this has been a mostly civil debate thus far (hell, even us who have opposing views have been joking with each other) and I'd like to keep it that way, OK?

Now, onto your post.

I'm speaking for .01% of the population, eh? Really? Where did that number come from? I assure you that many more people than .01% of the population would agree with most of what I've said today. In fact, there is an entire political party built around the belief that individual freedom should not be limited as long as it does not impose on the rights of others. So don't act like I'm some extreme radical who is part of a very small minority.

So, you are telling me that we should draw a moral line in the sand and in order to be a decent person your morals must be behind that line? Give me a break. That's is ridiculous and the fact that you can't see that is very depressing. So, morals aren't subjective, eh? Where should we draw our morals from? The Bible? Should we follow Christian morals? Sorry, I'm an atheist. That wouldn't work for me. What about other religions? No, that still won't work.

I have an idea! How about we base the "moral line" on what a person knows to be right and wrong! That sounds good. But is that possible? Will that ever happen? Of course not. There will always be people out there who think homosexuals should not be married. In fact, they are in the majority right now. Therefore their "moral line" is drawn farther back in the sand than mine.

Morals shouldn't be subjective, but they are. People who believe homosexuals don't have the right to marry are wrong. But not according to their morals. People who say Manhunt 2 should be banned are wrong, but not according to their morals. Do you see where I am going?

There are many lines in the moral sandbox and as long as this is true, morals will always be subjective. The easiest way to deal with this problem is to have laws that do not impose on ones personal freedom as long as that freedom does impose on the freedom of another. If you do not want to play a violent video game because of your personal morals, fine. Don't buy it. However, if I want to because my morals are a bit more relaxed than yours then I should be able to play if I should choose to.

And where in any of my posts do I suggest that morals should cease to exist? I can assure you that I've never even hinted such a thing, so stop twisting my words. As hard as it apparently is for you to believe, I do have morals. I just do not have the urge to impose those morals on others.

Oh heck yes. Oh heck, heck yes. Man, I love this stuff. You know, personally, I can respect a lot of different people with a lot of different views. You know, some of the people I respect most in my life have been people who I think shared very different views from me. In fact, at this early stage in my life, I'm not sure definitively what I do and don't believe in. Maybe i never will, but I DO believe in an overall well-being for the society that is the sustinence of all our lives. I'd like to think that as a society we promote beneficial things to people, and have the best interest of the majority in mind in the motives we have. I am an idealist, and I admit it.

You talk about moral subjectivity as if it is a foreign concept to me. I've been talking about the subjectivity of morailty and "freedom" all day long. In a sense you are right, though i never claimed otherwise, that overall we will never know definitvely what is "right" and what is "wrong." However, I differ from you in that I believe in a moral compass all of us humans have that points us towards living a moral life. I digress...

"as long as that freedom does not impose on the freedom of another." Well, that is interesting, seeing that you can never control (especially with material as volatile as manhunt 2) the ramifications of this otherwise innocent entertainment on people who are susceptible to being influenced. People on "the fringe" can seriously take the message being sent from media such as this and rationalize it to do harm on others. "Oh come on, how many people can seriously be ""on the fringe'" blah blah blah. There are a lot of people in this world, and a lot of people don't have the privelage of having such a rational mind as you. I'm sorry if this sounds unreasonable, but it is real and has proven itself throughout history. Maybe in your perfectly level-headed head you can justify this. Fantastic. Good for you. But for the overall good of all people, of all demographics, in all walks of life, this material does not benefit society as a whole in any shape or form. Your view is consistent with extreme individualism, buddy. "Don't want it? Don't buy it!" "I think its okay, so it should be!" I needn't delve into the numerous studies and side effects of our societies path towards extreme individualism. From extreme anger management issues in large percentages of people, paricularly men, to a growing epidemic of depression and anxiety in our culture to just name two of many more. 

But honestly...atheism? That whole athiestic morality "we have morals they're just different...yaddayaddayadda" argument is so old. Its a tired cycle. I mean, I respect agnosticism, but atheism....good luck. Have fun with manhunt 2.... 

[QUOTE="WhoaNellie32"][QUOTE="TreyoftheDead"][QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]

People, I understand censorship is not good, it brings us closer to the censorship found in other countries. But Manhunt 2 just crossed the line of human decency. It's a tender line that some of us in society is trying to preserve, to protect children and impressionable kids who are the future leaders when we grow old. We are not like Iraqi regime tryingt o censor natural human rights like voting or political talk, we are just trying to exercise some control over the tasteful and good entertainments from the compltely trashy and useless entertainment.

anasbouzid

PanicAtack already covered your first paragraph adequately, so I'll tackle the second.

Why is it trash and useless? Because of your personal morals? What about people who do not think Manhunt 2 is trashy and useless? Those people have the right to play it, just as you have the right not to play it. That line you believe it has crossed is very subjective. Even though it crosses it based on your morals, it may be no where near crossing it based on the morals of another person. What right do you or anyone else have to say people cannot play it when it doesn't cause you any harm? Because you don't think it's "decent"?

You don't have that right.

I can't even believe this post. I honestly cannot believe the audacity of this post. The people I think he is speaking (that obviously includes himself) for accounts for about .01% of the human population. What an incredible lack of GENERAL human decency and a perfect instance of extreme individualism. This level of ignorance on a moral issue reminds me of a day when I was in middle school and I stayed home sick with strep. My family didn't get cable, so the only thing on tv was an incredibly awful talk show hosted by RoseAnne Arnold. On that show, there was a discussion about some moral issue and an audience member maliciously asked another, "how do you know I've sinned? You don't know me. How do you know I have sinned before?" Even as a middle schooler this sounded like the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We are all human, and we have all made mistakes. It is a fundamental element of being human. It is a reasonable assumption that a 40 year old woman has "sinned' before...Reading this last post, this ignorance seems par for the course of that ridiculous show...

So, taking your stance, because everyone has their own "subjective" viewpoint on morality, lets never draw a line or think about the COMMON GOOD FOR THE MAJORITY OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS! INSTEAD, LETS WORRY ABOUT APPEASING TO THE SMALL MAJORITY WHO FIND THESE TYPES OF ENTERTAINMENT MORALLY ACCEPTIBLE (IF THEY EVEN HAVE ANY SORT OF MORAL STANDARD TO BEGIN WITH) AND GET OUR JOLLIES FROM THIS SORT OF SMUT BECAUSE WE'RE INDIVIDUALS WHO THINK IT IS OK, AND DESPITE BEING AN EXTREME MINORITY WITH (LETS BE HONEST) OUR OWN INTERESTS IN MIND, WE WILL OVERLOOK THE MANY MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THIS ENTERTAINMENT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT INFRINGE UPON OUR ALREADY SHAKY MORAL COMPASS....Hey, because we can, why not? Its up to the individual to decide if its right for him, right? In theory, in a perfectly organized society yes, but sadly, the world doesn't work like that. At the end of the day, an individual doesn't make up and dictate the state of a whole society. The better whole and well being of the society is what is ultimately important.

You act as if morality should cease to exist because...nevermind....i will NOT let myself go into detail anymore with such a...nevermind...

i cant believe this post.....

bear in mind that he is saying to include everyone.

let me tell you about myself and then let me tell you of how the person above is right and you missy icallmyselfachristian-andbeliveeveryoneanswerstomygod-andmustbelieveinwhatibelievecauseimmajority...

i never touched alcohol in my life...

i never saw a real woman naked in my life

im a virgin...

never toughed a woman innapropriately

never did drugs...ever...

im religious and belive in god...

i dont swear...ok, sometimes, but rarely

never masterbated or watched porn...

i am an extremely nice and generous person, ask my friends...

and i dont believe that a game or some movie should be baned and prohibited because i know that there are others who dont believe in god

there are others who think that porn is ok....

i dont but i hove no right to eliminate the CHOICE for the other person cause then i would enforcing my beliefs on him!!!

yes im part of a majority...but what if i willl be part of a minority in the future...do i want those with different moral standard

to enforce their view on me and my children....

no.

all i want is an indication as to what the content contains that i may personally head...and then give me the choice...cause i answer to god not you....so if i sin, i repent to god not you..and it is my resposibility to allow my kids to watch certain things and not to watch others...cause i will answer to god not you!!!

Whoa whoa whoa, dude. First off, I'm not a Christian. I don't know if when I used the word "sinned" (which was the actual word used in the ridiculous tv show I watched) you got this impression, but you are waaay off base. I'm happy for your personal religious sanctity, but I'm not the person you should talk to about it. What I'm simply saying is that there is a common good for civilized society as a whole. This transcends the moral exceptions and personal boundaries of certain individuals and their individual beliefs. I think that Manhunt 2 is a really poor and destructive form of entertainment, but more so, aside from my own individual preference for the game, an influence that can really cause no good in society as a whole. 

I triple majored in media studies, psychology, and philosophy. I live for this type of debate. I love it. If you're gonna come at me with this half-a** s***, please, try not to be so f****ing philistine about it...

[QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]

People, I understand censorship is not good, it brings us closer to the censorship found in other countries. But Manhunt 2 just crossed the line of human decency. It's a tender line that some of us in society is trying to preserve, to protect children and impressionable kids who are the future leaders when we grow old. We are not like Iraqi regime tryingt o censor natural human rights like voting or political talk, we are just trying to exercise some control over the tasteful and good entertainments from the compltely trashy and useless entertainment.

TreyoftheDead

PanicAtack already covered your first paragraph adequately, so I'll tackle the second.

Why is it trash and useless? Because of your personal morals? What about people who do not think Manhunt 2 is trashy and useless? Those people have the right to play it, just as you have the right not to play it. That line you believe it has crossed is very subjective. Even though it crosses it based on your morals, it may be no where near crossing it based on the morals of another person. What right do you or anyone else have to say people cannot play it when it doesn't cause you any harm? Because you don't think it's "decent"?

You don't have that right.

I can't even believe this post. I honestly cannot believe the audacity of this post. The people I think he is speaking (that obviously includes himself) for accounts for about .01% of the human population. What an incredible lack of GENERAL human decency and a perfect instance of extreme individualism. This level of ignorance on a moral issue reminds me of a day when I was in middle school and I stayed home sick with strep. My family didn't get cable, so the only thing on tv was an incredibly awful talk show hosted by RoseAnne Arnold. On that show, there was a discussion about some moral issue and an audience member maliciously asked another, "how do you know I've sinned? You don't know me. How do you know I have sinned before?" Even as a middle schooler this sounded like the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We are all human, and we have all made mistakes. It is a fundamental element of being human. It is a reasonable assumption that a 40 year old woman has "sinned' before...Reading this last post, this ignorance seems par for the course of that ridiculous show...

So, taking your stance, because everyone has their own "subjective" viewpoint on morality, lets never draw a line or think about the COMMON GOOD FOR THE MAJORITY OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS! INSTEAD, LETS  WORRY ABOUT APPEASING TO THE SMALL MAJORITY WHO FIND THESE TYPES OF ENTERTAINMENT MORALLY ACCEPTIBLE (IF THEY EVEN HAVE ANY SORT OF MORAL STANDARD TO BEGIN WITH) AND GET OUR JOLLIES FROM THIS SORT OF SMUT BECAUSE WE'RE INDIVIDUALS WHO THINK IT IS OK, AND DESPITE BEING AN EXTREME MINORITY WITH (LETS BE HONEST) OUR OWN INTERESTS IN MIND, WE WILL OVERLOOK THE MANY MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THIS ENTERTAINMENT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT INFRINGE UPON OUR ALREADY SHAKY MORAL COMPASS....Hey, because we can, why not? Its up to the individual to decide if its right for him, right? In theory, in a perfectly organized society yes, but sadly, the world doesn't work like that. At the end of the day, an individual doesn't make up and dictate the state of a whole society. The better whole and well being of the society is what is ultimately important.

You act as if morality should cease to exist because...nevermind....i will NOT let myself go into detail anymore with such a...nevermind...