Considering that both are APU designs perhaps that was bound to happen. No, they can't compete with high-end graphics cards but they are far more powerful than APUs available for PCs right now.

I don't get why people make such a big deal out of these things!

Don't buy a PS4 if you don't like it!

MasterX666

Won't speak for others but I'm here cuz of boredom. Discussing such things is something to pass the time.

FACT number one: a HD7850(with only a 5% OC) equals in performance the PS4 GPU (all through the 1GB version is not going to cut it, you will definitely need the 2GB or 4GB version)

FACT number two: console optimization is a myth.

MK-Professor

Bullshit. :roll:

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] Its definitly not all about power, like ps2 released after dream cast. What ends up winning are systems with a healthy amount of games in variety, psx, snes, ps2, all had that, ps3 ended up with more releases in the end 360 was basically a ps3 without blu-ray, exclusives, and paid online... ps3 was the better system not because of power but because of games.savagetwinkie

I never said it was all about power. You can have more power and still lose. But having more power is certainly a good thing.

And yes, PS3 is gonna finish ahead of 360 by a hair (It's such a razor-thin margin that it's practically a tie) but I disagree with you about it being better. If I had to decide it 10 times over again I'd pick 360 over PS3 10 more times.

Well, thank Don Mattrick for that. He hung around just long enough to kill the Xbox brand.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] umm wii, psx, ps2 were all lesser systems and dominated, sega isn't a good example because they are stupid and run like chickens. They were winning in the US but for some reason, i can't remember why, bailed on their system.savagetwinkie

Meh, all this crap about the weaker system usually winning is just that ... crap. What y'all should really be saying is that being first helps. Well duh, it certainly does. When that happens the latter console, and usually more powerful one, has to play catch-up for a while. But it ain't all that uncommon at all for the late-to-the-party and more powerful console to eventually catch up and perhaps even surpass the weaker, earlier console.

Xbox One vs PS4 is a little bit of a different animal though. Usually when you've got a power-chasm like this between two consoles it's because one of them came out a year earlier. But that ain't the case here. Both are launching in the same window so Xbox One ain't gonna be able to build up the big early lead that weaker consoles usually do.

I never said it was all about power. You can have more power and still lose. But having more power is certainly a good thing.

And yes, PS3 is gonna finish ahead of 360 by a hair (It's such a razor-thin margin that it's practically a tie) but I disagree with you about it being better. If I had to decide it 10 times over again I'd pick 360 over PS3 10 more times.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="blackace"]Who cares? Games aren't going to be much different anyways. Having more powerful hardware has never meant anything when it came to consoles. SNES/Genesis, 360/PS3/Wii, Xbox/Ps2. The more powerful almost never wins in the end. savagetwinkie

Let's look at your three examples though.

Genesis came out 2 years before SNES so it had a big head start. I can't remember who finished with more total sales but SNES was definitely outselling Genesis in the later years.

360 got a year head start and was ahead for a while but PS3 passed it eventually.

Xbox vs PS2 is really the only example you provided here where the weaker console dominated the more powerful one throughout their lifespans.

Being more powerful doesn't guarantee anything but it's certainly better to have more juice than your competetor does.

Meh, all this crap about the weaker system usually winning is just that ... crap. What y'all should really be saying is that being first helps. Well duh, it certainly does. When that happens the latter console, and usually more powerful one, has to play catch-up for a while. But it ain't all that uncommon at all for the late-to-the-party and more powerful console to eventually catch up and perhaps even surpass the weaker, earlier console.

Xbox One vs PS4 is a little bit of a different animal though. Usually when you've got a power-chasm like this between two consoles it's because one of them came out a year earlier. But that ain't the case here. Both are launching in the same window so Xbox One ain't gonna be able to build up the big early lead that weaker consoles usually do.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] Post me a November 2005 GPU thats equivalent of the 360's GPU. Then Ill post a GPU that money can buy today.True_Gamer_

um what? What does that have to do with anything? The link you posted is not the PS4 GPU

Yes, the 7870 pushes more flops than PS4 but look at what it's clocked at. If DF is to be believed, they think that PS4 has 20 CUs in it (Just like 7870) but 2 are disabled because of yields, than architecture-wise 7870 would be a closer match for PS4's GPU than 7850 is, but gimped (2 CUs disabled, downclocked). But if ya wanna look at it solely according to flops than 7850 is a good comparison.

Who cares? Games aren't going to be much different anyways. Having more powerful hardware has never meant anything when it came to consoles. SNES/Genesis, 360/PS3/Wii, Xbox/Ps2. The more powerful almost never wins in the end. blackace

Let's look at your three examples though.

Genesis came out 2 years before SNES so it had a big head start. I can't remember who finished with more total sales but SNES was definitely outselling Genesis in the later years.

360 got a year head start and was ahead for a while but PS3 passed it eventually.

Xbox vs PS2 is really the only example you provided here where the weaker console dominated the more powerful one throughout their lifespans.

Being more powerful doesn't guarantee anything but it's certainly better to have more juice than your competetor does.

Thats the exact same GPU thats in the PS4?R3FURBISHED

No it's not. It's had some customization done to it so it isn't identical to anything AMD is selling on the PC market right now. But anyway, considering that 2 of the CUs are disabled because of yields (So DF speculates anyway) it's actually more like a 7870 than a 7850 but downclocked.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

You keep talking about yield issues but that isn't confirmed. For all we know the delays in those countries might be because of all the backpedaling they've been doing with drm, Kinect, and pretty much everything else. Software has to be rewritten for changes like that and that could be the cause of the delays just as much as it could be yield issues. At this point I'm even suspecting that a SKU without Kinect will be released given that it no longer has to be hooked up and a headset is coming with it. That in and of itself, if it happens, would necessitate tweaking software.

But anyway, their decision making is just pissing me off to no end. If you're gonna delay it in several countries then just delay it everywhere and improve the damned hardware! Dump the ESRAM, dump the DDR3, improve the GPU!

tormentos

Oh it was confirmed.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/14/4620584/xbox-one-launch-delay-european-countries

You just did not read it well.

MS will not admit yield issues period to any one,even if theyare the worse ever,implying Yield issues mean hardware problems,in this case the ESRAM is on the same die as the GPU and CPU which mean if the ESRAM fail the GPU and CPU will not work.

Yield problems is where not enough chips are coming out working out of the wafers,or not enough working as intended,this mean higher price of component for MS,as well as future problems for probably first adopters,RROD or Yellow light of death sony experience,mind you that sony Cell was suppose to be 8 working SPE but 1 was disable on all chips to improve yields,that mean if the majority of chips come out with 8 or 7 working SPE they will be use.

Ad to this that store have leak that they have ay more PS4 to sell than xbox one,even on US and UK,and pre-orders are showing it.

Don't know why you linked to that article cuz it doesn't mention a peep about yield issues.

But anyway, if they are having yield problems because of the ESRAM then it's just another reason the dumbasses should have delayed the thing and redesigned it.