@lithus: The first game dictates the lows of the serie. If it were a first game (wich it is... in a way) ok,sadly this is technically RE7 so... giedrius1001 is right.
This game may be awesome, and a whiff of fresh air, but nonetheless it is not a RE game, or at least not in the traditional way. RE5 and RE6 went in the wrong direction, this game is the same thing, the difference is that is another kind of wrong direction.
It´s like driving on a road, you have the straight line and then two alternative paths. Right and left. Right leads you towards RE5 and RE6, left leads you to RE7. Both alternative paths are just that, alternative paths. What some of us wanted is the return to the original path, the straight line.
RE was never only about zombies, but it was not only about horror or suspense or action. RE was always a cocktail of many characteristics.
With this I'm not dismissing the quality of this game, I just think is not a RE game at its core.
@PrpleTrtleBuBum: "Even just this discussion shows t... I'm not sure anyone would think about it afterwards."
If the final objective was to talk about the game afterwards, well, they won the battle. But you have three ways of talking about "the game"... in a positive way, in a curious way or in a bad way. Now that I think about it, they found another way, in a very very bad and disturbing way.
"But at the same time...but at these points Shepard is basically Neo and everyone is just waiting for his magic."
It's a cool point of view. I respect your vision because you are not trying to excuse the final decisions. You are trying to justify Shepard final actions based on the game, most people tries to say the endings are good in a Paragon way, and that is not only stupid, but also repulsive.
But then again I need to disagree with that point of view, especially because it tries to excuse bad writing.
I know the glowing kid is stupid, his speech makes no sense and he contradicts itself several times. But we need to take him seriously, especially because we are choosing one of his choices. Let´s take a look:
Red: The most stupid choice in the game. The kid gives you a choice (one of his solutions) that is, by his own words not a solution at all. "Organics will made synthetics again..." So the question remains, how is this a solution.
Blue: As I said before is also not a solution. If it was the kid could have used long time before.
Green: It´s a brain wash, so in a way is a solution. A very disturbing solution, but a solution.
But then comes the biggest problem with "Shepard is basically Neo". The kid says it needs Shepard... Well, no, he doesn´t needs Shepard to any of his solutions.
Red was easy to solve, all reapers sent into the sun, done.
Blue: Shepard not needed. The kid says to his minions, boys, we are not going to dark space, we will stay here as the ultimate police force. Done.
Green: Ironically he does not need Shepard in this choice too. All he needs is an organic with "augmentations".HEHE if you know what I mean.
That´s just another reason, why all this reaches a level of stupidity out of the reach.
If ME3 was a solo game, some things would not matter. But as an end of a trilogy it should have respected the legacy of previous games. The spirit of Shepard should never be changed in other to have an artistic ending.
ME1 and ME2 (Paragon or Renegade) would never agree with the kid. It´s easy to see it, put the lines of the kid in one page, Shepard responses to Saren in another. See the result... It´s awesome... Now that I think about it, it´s almos like the "refusal ending" speech. LOL
@PrpleTrtleBuBum: "There are different views I guess."
This is an indisputable truth. What one people see as bad other can see as acceptable. Rape is bad in most countries, in some cultures is an acceptable thing.
My point is, "point of views" are an ok thing, but "the facts" of your actions remains the same no matter the point of view.
Me1 was about the reapers, not the Geth. But the essence of ME1 is hope through diversity of races, feelings and cultures. Also ME1 explains the reapers strategy of war, how their "modus operandi" works. That´s why the begining of ME3 destroys ME1 main plot, because ignores the reapers strategy and their difficulty to made the journey without the citadel relay.
ME2 was about teamwork and again, diversity of races, cultures and feelings. Legion brings life to the geth and the true bad people of the war are the Quarians. Sadly, ME2 was all about the team and not about the main plot (the reapers). Even so you receive a new weapon that could be used in ME3 to truly cripple the reapers. Unfortunatly Supermac thought that doing so it would not be artistic.
ME3 should have been about total war, strategy, union, diversity. Unfortunately was about fear, Deus ex Device and cowardice.ME1 was way darker than ME3, the difference is that ME1 has a well connected story, ME3 tried to take a different route, and they failed...
"But the result is that you can stand still for a minute and the game says you lost. That's the problem IMO."
As I told you before the refusal ending is just a middle finger to ME1 and ME2 fans. Oh, you want to have an honorable shepard? You want to fight the enemy? You want to promote diversity of races, feelings and cultures? Take this motherf... This is probably what Supermac and Hudson thought when they were listening to the fans rage.
Also, lets be real, who will choose one of the reapers choices with a real refusal ending possibility?
"But I think destruction ending is what the player wanted when he started the series."
The difference is this... When it was your choice, that was ok, when it was forced on you with the known results, not so much.
Imagine this scenario:
Shepard: Geth commander this is commander Shepard. The only way to destroy the reapers is to destroy all synthetic life.
Geth Commander: We are your allies in this war, we accept our face in orther to stop this threat. Do what you have to do commander.
Shepard: Your race will not be forgotten. We will remember your sacrifice.
Something in those lines. Obviously with better writing. But never as a choice of the enemy. First because it makes no sense. But also because it steals from you the honor and the sacrifice from the Geth.
"Green is the ending of feminists and Blue is the ending of self-righteous"
Blue is a stupid choice because if Shepard can stop the reapers, the kid can also stop the reapers. If stop the reapers and police the universe is the solution, Shepard was never needed. Also, a Shepard AI could become crazy at any time, in the same way the glowing kid has become.
But green... Oh, green. Is much, much worse than blue or red. Is the total violation of organic life without their consent. Is a massive rape without respect for cultures, diversity, feelings, religions. Is a brain wash to the whole universe, the final victory of the reapers.
@PrpleTrtleBuBum: "Just in the end you're forced to realize you can't beat the reapers..."
No only in the end. The game tries since the start to give you the feel of inferiority. But not in the same way of ME1, with hope and courage... No, in this game is with fear and cowardice.
"I think the dictator, rapist etc. choices are still better than..."
To ME3 Shepard maybe... To ME1 and ME2 not even in a million years.
"I think they could have made the "Reject" choice better, but it would have probably been like the ending of Halo Reach..."
Yes, it could have been a lot better. Death was not the problem, an honorable death is better than to live forever in shame. At least in my Paragon Shepard view.
But you may not forget that "the refusal ending" is just a middle finger to ME1 and ME2 fans who wanted his Shepard to return into "character".
I never felt losing in Bioshock. Even in Bioshock 3 I can see more hope. I agree with AC, especially because AC3 was the end of the serie for me (I liked AC4 but not as an AC game), but even there Desmond does the honorable thing, he saves everyone and say to the enemy that people will find a way to stop her. He doesn´t accepts his logic or his rules, he don´t embraces the enemy view. He makes one sacrifice, himself.
Shepard on the other hand accepts the stupid logic of the glowing kid without questioning. Even with all the stupid nonsense the kid says he doesn't fights back. Every choice is the choice of the enemy. You may choose which one, but none is truly yours, besides refusal.
"Beside the term villain is sort of funny."
Not in this case. Shepard (Paragon) was always honorable, loved diversity and always respect everyone. In ME3 Shepard chooses one of the choices of the enemy, massive rape (green), totalitarianism (blue), or genocide (red), if you are not the bad guy, damn, we should release everyone from jail...
@PrpleTrtleBuBum: I tried to understand the comparison between those games and I´m not catching it. In those games you are never the villain (I haven't played DS), in ME1 and ME2 you are the hero, in ME3 you become the villain of the story.
@Fia1: The biggest problem (besides the ending) in ME3 is that has not heart. The best thing are the characters. Obviously this is the result of ME2 great job in character introduction and development. In this regard I even dare to say, that the asshole who killed ME3 does a good job in ME1 and ME2. Sadly, Supermac won the lead writer position and... well, you knoew, space magic, nihilistic endings, total disregard for ME lore and ambience... and on and on...
You can talk about the end but let´s face it... the main plot is:
To create a weapon that no one knows what it is, what it does, if works or even if the schematics are complete. And this weapon, who is incomplete, needs to fit in a device (catalist) that no one knows were is is or how it is. And them... space magic... Really? Do you call this good writing?
Also, ME1 main plot talks about the strategy of the reapers... Well!!!! In ME3 they only remember how to do it in the last moments of the game. I´m talking about the control of the citadel and the relays.
So... Sorry, but there is awful things besides the ending. But yes... The endings are just too damn horrible and amplify all the other problems.
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