It feels wrong to say this but... I can´t digest Bella Ramsey as Ellie... and yes its a matter of looks (I'm ashamed). Hope to change my mind after release.
@Akriel_Boulve: "Ultimately everything we are discussing boils down to opinions."
That is an indisputable truth.
"You have never read Nazi propaganda if you think that it is "disgusting and you can sense it a mile away""
Trust me i can sense it a mile away. And you are not wrong in your statement about the subtleness on how it starts most of the time. But that also leads you to a very thin line that can make you be wrong in your assessment. So, what I normally do is to let a foot behind...(LOL, sorry, this is an expression that we use in my country, I don't believe it translate well to English - it means distrust and high attention)...
"I would still not upvote it if I was aware of it and that is the case that we have here."
As I told you, you probably are walking the thin line, you go right I go left... only the future will be able to prove which of us is right.
"You can claim that there is no woke agenda...others who think that there is an agenda and honestly believe that..."
Fair enough... but... that's why we have the "opinion", and the arguments behind. If I say the sky is blue, yet you say its black, then only one of us is right, and that can be debated.
"that is enough for me to be able to legitimately say I don't like it and rate it accordingly low"
I disagree, for me that is review bombing. You are not reviewing fairly the game. I don't like soul games, but I will not rate something I will never be able to truly review properly. Obviously, I can say I don't like it... but to review or rate it? No...
Many people gave bad reviews to TLOU2 based on "an agenda". Some of that so called agenda is based on a Trans person (who is not trans) and a hate for white males (this game shows more love for Joel than TLOU1)...of course that people is entitled to their opinions. As I am entitled to make fun of them... :) based on their opinions that are supported on a parallel reality (probably they would choose alternative facts as the right statement).
@Akriel_Boulve: "Most of the time there is a very real reason to downvote a piece of media, even if it's just that you disagree with their agenda."
And if there is no agenda except in your mind? I already told you an example that fits perfectly my point.
"I'm not going to upvote Nazi propaganda..."
Of course not... no sane person would do it. But your example is very easy to identify, Nazi propaganda is always so disgusting that you can sense it far away. But there are cases, when some people see propaganda in everything...and those people are as dangerous as the propaganda they are so afraid.
2. No. The story is simple, but to say it is simply a revenge story is an oversimplification that shows that you didn't get most of the other themes and story.
3. "You pointed out that THE ENTIRE game was about Ellie's quest for revenge until the last few minutes of the game"
Wrong. Ellie first journey is all about revenge (until the theatre fight). After that moment, Ellie story has nothing to do with revenge. Her second journey is disguised as another revenge trip, but ultimately it has nothing to do with revenge.
Ellie is chasing herself, not Abby.
So obviously, the rest of your sentence makes no sense... we are talking about 2/3 of the game that has nothing to do with revenge.
3. (Again)...
Yes... Her life was miserable... is still miserable (like almost every other life in TLOU). But it is not miserable because of what she did to Joel. In fact, the emptiness she feels after Joel´s death, is the space she needs to open herself to a new world/people.
"in order for normal people"
Sorry... I don't know what you mean by normal people. I have a feeling the normal people you are talking about is not "normal", only bad people at its core.
"but that chance for an Abby-free life was enough to get him and the woman carrying his child to get onto a boat and leave."
My friend... play the game again or watch the movies in youtube again because clearly, you either not played the game, or just don't know what the hell you are talking about.
"people that were not paying attention in Last of Us Part 1 when the Firefly said there MIGHT BE a chance to get an vaccine/cure from Ellie not that they WILL get a cure from Ellie."
Wrong again. As my most loved game I have no problem debating TLOU1 if you want. And, no... contrary to what you may think, I love Joel, and I support every action he does in the last part of the game. Even if the cure was a certainty I would support his actions.
And know you must be so confused. LOL
PS: Owen loves Abby more than anyone else. And he is the only light in Abby life... This part of the story really went over your head...
4. Well... no one is dragging me down, I would not allow (or try to avoid) that to happen. But that doesnt mean that I need to have lack of empathy by other people suffering.But that is not something strange, it's just being a good human being, and there is a ton of good human people out there... unfortunately, you also have the other side of the coin...
@johndoe12345: "You are 100% wrong. Revenge is the central theme of the story."
I told you it was an oversimplification, it is obviously one of the core themes, but I guess that went over your head too.
"Abby lost..." And Ellie lost..."
Yes... Both girls lost a lot of things out of revenge. But both girls found and gained a lot of things when they surpassed that road of destruction.
Revenge is like the fuel that keeps the car going, but is not the carcass, or the breaks, or the engine or the tires...While the effects of revenge is the visual resolution provided by the game, there are a deeper core, that goes deep into personal destruction and the value of life. In simple words, human redemption.
To simplify, to see this game as a revenge story is such a simplification that is painful to see. Especially considering that the revenge part of the story is presented in Ellie first journey. Abby journey is not about revenge and Ellie second journey is also not about revenge (even if disguised as such).
"I don't have pity or empathy for people that choose destructive behaviors and then everyone around them pays the price."
Sorry but no. You dont have empathy, and that's it, don't try to find excuses.
"The pregnant character, I don't even care enough to look up these characters names"
See... No empathy whatsoever, it has nothing to do with Abby. LOL
Every action leads to some kind of reaction. Yes, they all died because of Abby actions... or Ellie's actions? It always depends on the shoulder/eye you choose to see through...
Mel died because it tried to save Owen. Owen died because it tried to disarm Ellie in order to save and protect Abby...
As you can see, it's a matter of perspective.
"after she succeeded in her life's mission, she never had a plan past killing Joel. THAT is why she was miserable. The revenge didn't comfort her or help her with the fact her father was dead."
Great. Someone is almost there. Congratulations, you are far ahead of your pairs...
Only a little change in your logic, she is not miserable, after killing Joel, Abby becomes empty. No life objective, no target, no one to focus her pain and sorrow.
"Tell me I don't understand the themes of the game."
You don't. You still believe that the game is all about revenge. And the game goes like this:
1. Ellie first Journey - Revenge (and the so called cycle), living under personal guilt, total rage and lack of empathy or care about human life.
2. Redemption, acceptance, empathy, love. Effects of the cycle of violence (but only a few last minutes of her personal trip).
3. Acceptance of loss, grief, personal enlighten, love and redemption.
"Ellie at least let go at the end of the story when she let Abby leave, realizing that adding to the bloodshed wasn't going to bring her any comfort."
Again the oversimplification. But I guess it simplifies the thing you don't like. Ellie realises way more than just that. I would add that, if that were only the situation at hand Abby would die in that beach. But hey, if you truly believe is that simple, it explains a lot...
"Enjoy the living Hell of pitying and empathizing with people that are on a course of self-destruction."
Wrong. But please, tell me again how much you understand the story. LOL.
Abby path (or course) of self-destruction ends the moment she kills Joel, thats her lower point. Everything she does after that moment is to fight her own self. To fight her way out of the darkness into the light. But the light this time can´t be her all time beacon of hope (Owen), and that light only surfaces with the appearance of Yara and Lev.
So yes, I pity her. Her life went from miserable to nothing, but she is trying her best (still not great obviously) to be better, to do better choices. And what can I say, I have empathy for people trying to do and be better. Like Joel.
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