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michaelmikado

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#1 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 406 Posts
@sealionact said:

@michaelmikado: I understand the reasoning behind the resolution limitation, but it still doesn't alter the fact that it's lagging behind competitors, with no plans to improve. Kids will be happy enough, but gamers - the target audience - have moved on from 720p two generations ago and the fact remains that subscription numbers are poor. I guarantee you that if PSnow followed the Gamepass model, numbers would explode. Which PS4 owner wouldn't want to download last of us 2 etc for that price?

Right now, Sony would never do that because their 1st party games sell so well...but if competitors are offering AAA games it may well influence next gen choices, which is why I said Sony have some choices to make.

My whole argument is not that psnow sucks. 700,000 people subscribe and enjoy it. My argument is that the way we consume digital media is changing, and Sony have to improve that end to continue to compete. Like it or not, physical discs will die out, as will game stores....its just way cheaper to release them digitally - or offer streaming.

MS has the knowhow, finances and server capacity to create a big player in the streaming industry and Sony can't compete on those terms, which is why they have made a deal with MS to use Azure.

To be fair, both consoles have lost the battle already, because most people game on mobiles...which are now starting their own subscription services.

The 720p stream can use hardware acceleration to upscale on the client. Many people have reported very good results streaming to 4K displays because of this. Sony has done this for 5 years and understands the costs of rendering at higher resolutions, what it does to data caps and bandwidth etc. more than anyone else on a game streaming service. The absorbed the biggest game streaming services to previously exist.

If I had to guess Sony's plan is simple:

The bulk of their game library are 720p and under.

Its cheap to stream at 720p with bandwidth and data caps.

Mobile is fine with 720p.

They use hardware upscaling on the clients for the 720p streams.

For the best experience buy a PlayStation console and download the game which saves them tremendous money compared to competitors.

No one else has the game library and streaming available for this price. Netflix had terrible streaming quality compared to Amazon when released. But Netflix was cheaper and offered more volume of older content and library. PSNow is literally replicating that exact same model but in videogames while xCloud and Stadia are replicating more of the Amazon Prime model.

Low tech streaming, huge older library , cheap price = Netflix/PSNow

High tech Streaming, Newer smaller library, premium price for content = Amazon Prime/ Stadia/xCloud

Its a different approach and both have their places but one method seems to clearly reach critical mass faster. Its like comparing Walmart and Target.

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#2 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 406 Posts

@xantufrog said:

@michaelmikado: no offense, but I (as a Cow, Sheep, and PC gamer, not a Lem mind you) find that argument thin as ice. I simply don't care if it was "developed for PS" or "needs the PS ecosystem" or whatever. If I can play it on PC, then that's my end goal. The fact that PS3 games are streamed from server racks with Cells on them doesn't matter to me at all, and I'd further speculate that the PS4 games are probably not even streamed from specialized hardware since there's nothing forcing Sony to do so.

The more people who can play PS games the better, IMO, and same goes for Xbox games. I'm not interested in debating what "counts" as making a game available on PC. If I can play it with their blessing (not some pirate+emulate scheme), they made it available on PC. That's my definition.

The idea that playing a game that requires you to pay Sony on anything but specifically a PlayStation console is absurd and only works in fanboy system warz forum. In the real, sane world investors see this as income. Gamers see it as an opportunity to play different games.

The only reason a game being on both PC and Xbox matters is because as an investor in MS it means the game can be played without Microsoft seeing a penny of the revenue in royalties. More options to access an IP means less potential revenue to an investor and less reason for a gamer to give money to Microsoft and their ecosystem. I'm not an investor so it doesn't matter to me, but literally everywhere but this nonsensical world of system warz does basic common sense and sound business sense and financial reasoning prevail.

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#3 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 406 Posts
@sealionact said:

@BenjaminBanklin: Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't even perform at PS4 levels. Max resolution is 720p. Unless you download, which you can't on pc.

See above.

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#4 michaelmikado
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@sealionact said:

@michaelmikado: That's the problem. Psnow really isn't a gamepass competitor. Gamepass appeals to Xbox and pc gamers alike...there's been very little reason for PS4 owners to subscribe to psnow, which shows in the subscription rate. By cutting the price, offering downloads and limited amounts of older 1st party games, Sony are attempting to improve that attachment rate in line with gamepass numbers.

Ms don't release figures about gamepass, but we know that more than 3 million players played gears 5 on its first weekend, and that physical sales were poor...so it's safe to say it's doing much better than psnow.

The problem for Sony is that they already had a streaming service, but failed to capitalise on the head start. Playing games at 720p just doesn't cut it, and even a price cut and a resolution bump won't help the service unless they start including 1st party games on day 1...which they won't do.

Xcloud will launch with 4k gaming, as will stadia. It'll have 1st party games day 1, as will stadia....and it's easy enough for ms to match psnow's price, or make a package including gamepass, Xcloud and live.

The ball was in Sony's court, but they've been down to Matchpoint since psnow's inception.

As someone who has subscribed to PSnow for years now even at its previous price point I can tell you it is untrue that it has no value for PS4 owners. In fact the bulk of the subscribers are PS4 users.

The reason it hold value is simple. If you have kids, they have almost every Lego game and Disney game from the PS3 and current generation. Kids which these games appeal to are far less sensitive to latency and visual quality than even the average gamer. At $100 a year I never had to buy a single game for the kids while also being able to play a couple games for myself. It's a MASSIVE bargain for a family. GamePass as far as the number of subscribers go is a whole different animal. Its is heavily subsidized by Microsoft solely for the purpose of offering value and being a loss leader. PSNow hasn't been a loss leader because it hasn't needed to. It stabilized its business model and worked to reduce costs to offer better pricing in the future to meet competition.

I think you aren't understanding PSnow or the business model or the back end of the streaming business at all.

PSNow was built to stream PS3 games which max out at 720p. It never made sense to go above that. Further the PS4 and PC app both use hardware acceleration to upscale a 720P stream if/when possible. As far as the PS4 game Sony took the logical step of allowing it to be downloaded. With streaming games, the higher resolution and assets, the more you costs per hour of use. By keeping the resolution low it keeps their costs and thus their pricing low. Further allowing downloads reduces their costs even more. This also gives them a marketing opportunity. If you want the best experience you need to buy a PS4 console which is their bread and butter. You can play without it but you will not get the best experience. It essentially acts as an advertising tool.

This has been the problem with all these services.... finding a business model which actually is profitable and PSNow is the only one actively working and in business because they found a model. Keep streaming costs down by offering a download alternative at max performance.

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#5 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 406 Posts

@xantufrog said:

@Coolyfett: his point is that certain cows made a long and protracted stink about "Xbox has no games" based on the same premise - that they were also being distributed to PC. The response you just gave has long been the Lem retort in those arguments.

None of these games are being distributed on PC though. None of them have been developed for, ported to, or available on any X86 platform Windows/Mac platform. The Xbox division doesn't get a cut of games Ported to PC unless there is some special circumstance in place. It's literally impossible to play these games without the Playstation ecosystem or paying the playstation division.

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#6 michaelmikado
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@sealionact:

I find it laughable that people think this is a GamePass competitor when the wired article specifically talks about them looking at google... how narcissistic do you have to be?

Anyway Sony is doing this now to cut the legs from under both Stadia and XCloud. The timing is specifically to keep them in the conversation and have a point of comparison against the other offerings. I just wasn’t necessary before because no console streaming service existed before. Now that competition is about to launch for real then they compete for real.

It’s literally business 101.

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#7 michaelmikado
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@Xabiss:

You don’t have to stream PS4 games if you have a PS4... it’s perfectly fine to use it as a GamePass like alternative especially when it has 350 PS4 games for download and never stream a single title. Right now my usage is 75% download 25% streaming.

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#8 michaelmikado
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@navyguy21 said:

@ButDuuude: Not true. Every game on Gamepass is downloadable and played native, not to mention the newer titles aside from the first party.

Just having PS4 titles for download means less games than gamepass are available natively. Streaming PS3 games (or any game) is terrible, especially since even if you have a fast connection you are still being throttled due to server load and have to try to play through the equivalent of a 480p YouTube stream.

Sony did the right thing partnering with Microsoft for their cloud services. Let's not pretend that these services are close to being equal just because you favor one over the other. PSnow has a ways to go

No

PSNow has about 350 PS4 games to download. Basically more PS4 downloadable games than GamePass has on its entire service...….

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#9 michaelmikado
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@Random_Matt: Yes, just PS4 and I would assume PS5 if its back compatible. If PS3 games can be emulated on PS5 then I don't see why they couldn't expand it to download all or most games from the service too.

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#10 michaelmikado
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@Random_Matt said:
@michaelmikado said:
@Random_Matt said:

Streaming? No thanks, besides it only runs off a PS4. Technically it is not on PC, so unless they offer me at least 60 FPS, then no thanks.

What??? That's literally the opposite? It supports both Windows or Mac.

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/explore/playstation-now/ps-now-on-pc/

Windows PC or laptop, you’ll have access to a huge library of incredible PS4, PS3 and PS2 games ready to stream and play whenever you want them.

You don't get it. Guy below me more or less gets it. It runs off a PS4 server/(Equivalent)hardware, unless it is available on PC natively, then it is not on PC. I'm not wasting my time with a streamed PS4 game, better off buying a PS4 if you are that desperate. I can do without the shitty latency and bandwidth issues, streaming is fucking dog shit.

No, I don't think you get it.

For $60 a year you can download 350+ PS4 games to your PS4 and play at full performance. Streaming is optional and I use it primarily as a GamePass alternative. Streaming is only one part of PSNow.