Kozzy1234 said: "Nash = 2 MVP's, Kobe 0"

You forgot something:   Kobe 3 Rings!.     Nash 0, ZERO, , nada, nothing, a void, an empty space !!

Again, Nash isn't making anyone better, he simply has better teammates. Even with his crappy team Kobe still averaged 5.4 assists, among the top for his position!

Kobe is the best NBA basketball player alive.

Nash wouldn't be a top MVP candidate if he had Kwame Brown and co. to pass to. Nash doesn't make his teammates better he simply has better teammates.  You don't get an assist by yourself, the other guy has to make the shot. Plus Nash is not even thought of for his defense, Kobe is.

Kobe is better than T-Mac. T-Mac shot 43.1% (fg) and 70.7% (ft). in the reg season. Kobe, 46.3% and 86.8%, who would you rather have in a big game. Plus Kobe is more known for D than T-Mac, Kobe rebounded slightly better, T-Mac only averged 1.1 more assists(on a team with Yao Ming)

Kobe's better than Lebron. Kobe plays better D, Lebron can't be trusted at the free thorw line(69.8%!), Kobe's a better defender, Lebron only averaged 1 more rebound(keep in mind while mostly playing forward) and only .6 more assists than Kobe.

Too compare Kobe to Pistol Pete and George Gervin(2 players I love) but who couldn't spell defense let alone play it, is crazy.

Kobe is the best right now. He has the best combination of basketball skill, period. Ball handling, shooting- from any range, defense, atheleticism, big shot making ability, leadership..yes LEADERSHIP!! Considering injuries and the average, to sub-par, to down-right pathetic role players Kobe had, the Lakers should not even been allowed to watch the play-offs on TV, let alone play in them! But Kobe's got them there on the strength of his great ability. 

Kobe is MVP, but Nash or Dirk will get it, only because they have better role players. I doubt if Nash or Dirk could have gotten the Lakers in the Play-offs.

Oh, I forgot, someone else posted support for their choice of MVP, so I'll post support for my choice of Kobe Bryant. David Friedman is a free-lance writer, who at least does his research. Its long but is a decent article(not just because he agrees with me)

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2007/03/who-is-best-player-kobe-bryant-or-steve.html

juju...:  Thank you. That's all I'm asking for, fair, honest, intelligent debate. Could you talk to ya boy tirpple-I, please? Geezz!can't give a freakin straight answer to a fair question, and I'm the childish one ?!  Oh!, triple -I, I didn't know you were reading this,...my bad!;) 

It was a fair question with an obvious point in mind. I didn't say it would make Kobe a better defender than MJ, during his prime years I still believe MJ would be better either way, so we agree there. But if you're going to say its much easier for Kobe to score because of no handchecking, then he should get more credit on D because he can't hand check either, MJ could. For me that means I would add a little more to Kobe's score on D in my rating system, moving him closer to MJ talent wise.

Before anyone says it, I know no one cares about my little ol' rating system........cool with me.

Guys, relax,      I       never         said      Kobe     was      better       than     MJ, its ok, put the guns down.

Now, you can have your forum back. (go ahead, it-is-I, you know you can't resist :P, see two can play that game also)

Don't you mean "you love it when MJ calls your name"?? Uhhh, never mind, too much information.

1) Now, listen up "TreyI" , like that name too?? Dude, I know you and yours would love to worship MJ without any counter points. But you are not in kindergarten anymore....right???? When someone make a statement like "MJ is the greatest" others  will jump in with their opinion if they believe otherwise, and a debate follows(whether you think there is any "debate" or not). That debate can take any number of twists and turns. Why does this bother you so much? Its simply how it works in the real world. Now, if you can't hang I understand.

2) You didn't just post facts from NBA.com/expert ananysis, you posted several other things that were not based in fact, period.

3) When you give credit to MJ for his olympic success, then say "see how the  U.S. has struggled of late", there is an implication there. Ray Charles can see that, and he's passed on.

4) Again Kobe and MJ are linked, like it or not, when one is mentioned the other usually will be also. Sorry.

5)AGAIN!! I don't care if you're passionate about MJ/Bulls, cool, honest! Go ahead, do your thing! Mj was great, Bulls were great, wonderful. And I haven't praised Kobe to high heaven either. Come on, dude, work with me!!

Lastly, you still haven't answered my question about hand checking. Its just a simple little question, again, if ur not up to the challenge of that question, will someone else take it on please??? Your laughing at me, ha, all youv'e done all thread long is dance around my points and questions. Don't you realize I'm laughing at you also!. I already have pondered the possible repiles to my own questions, and know when somone is moonwalking around them. This is all a little fun for me, my little puppet, like a cat playing with a mouse. Hey, you be cool now,............ amateur.    ;)    

Dude, yeah you, It is I, why do you continue to try me? Haven't you learned yet!!? You are one of those who have put several non-factual posts, I started to list them all but I won't bother...I'll just deal with the latest crap you said:

 3. "Olympic (Notice the USA has been struggling as of late....)":  Surely you're not suggesting the US has struggeled lately because of not having MJ on the team!    Dream Team 1 played in 1992:

Check it:

1994 Dream Team ll,  easily win World Championships,no MJ!  +  1996 Olympic Team, easily win the Gold metal, no MJ.! +

2000 not as easily, but US win Gold, no MJ! 2 Golds and a World Championship and you're still giving MJ credit, this is a classic case of JORDAN JOCKING!!! stop it!   Magic, Bird, Barkely, ..etc were on DT 1 and all you can say is MJ, why don't you just marry the man and get it over with!!??

Will someone else , man enough, take a shot at my earlier question concerning hand-checking, since ya boy ain't up to the challenge !?

Hey! looky here, its my main man Tripple I, whats up fellow b'ball fan!?? ha,ha, welcome back to Kobe Hater Central !

I see you're up to your same tricks, not answering a direct question ;) But its cool because it is you, It-Is-I and I'm used to it. Looks like I'm not the only one who can't resist making comments on this thread, huh? :shock:(I knew it too!).

Actually, I was done until someone asked my opinion then I jumped back in. I once again was bombarded with erroneous statements about Kobe and/or embelishments of the great MJ's career. You see its an admitted fault of mine, to fight for truth, justice, fairness, and to dispel all untruths, fabrications, bias, discrimination, prejudice wherever I find it. Sorta like a super-hero kinda dude.

Seriously, I do respect your and others opinion about MJ. But can't you guys appreciate MJ without hating on Kobe and disrespecting other greats? Can't you like MJ without embellishing his career into immortal/godlike status as if he invented the game of Basketball? Like "in most of his big games MJ literally shot 70-80%" well I checked, of his 39, 50+ point games MJ shot 70+% only 15.4 % of the time, thats not even close to "most". He shot 80+ in one of those games(83%), even less close to "most". Doesn't mean he shot bad in the other games but the previous statement is not true. Thats the type of stuff I speak out against. I'm not even close to the one being unfair or biased here. The only real unnecessary jab I took at MJ was done in jest, MJ "The travellin' mofo" Jordan. The rest have been facts and correcting untruths about kobe.

 Find/create my own thread in praise of Kobe, you say? Ha, I would bet you can't find a thread praising Kobe without some JordanJocker jumping in to discredit him and say MJ did this or that better. Sorry to crash your "MJ Jockathon" but stop with all the untruths and I'll stop attacking them, and you and yours can worship MJ in peace. Face it, MJ and Kobe are linked, why,  because Kobe is just that good. Good enough to get the debate going in every barbar shop, sports bar, and internet site around. And you Jordanair's can't stand it. 

Kobe seems to be the most hated player in history, most of it UNWARRENTED. He is a brilliant basketball player and has grown as a person/leader but still the hate piles on. Even you won't give him full credit until he wins another ring. This is only his 3rd year with his "own team" and people dogg him becasue he hasn't marched to the title yet, it took MJ 7 years!. Thats hate IMO. Personnally , barring injury, I think Kobe will make a believer out of all of you before he's done.

I would address ur 3 points one by one, but I'll just say this, my goal has never been to convince anyone to choose Kobe or any other player over MJ. My goal was to logically and truthfully challenge any mis-statements in the debate. I have not ben biased against MJ and/or for Kobe, check it out. For me Truth trumps all.

A word about "opinions".  You and others have said I should respect the opinions of those who favor MJ. Disrespecting and challenging someones opinion are 2 different things. If someone's opinion is that the sun is made of icecream, then they're going to get a challenge from me. I'm going to ask why they believe it and for supporting facts. Thats only fair and is not disrespectful. I may do it in a serious or playful manner, people should be able to take a little teasing.

Your comments ??:)

Ahhhhhhh, there's peace in the valley. Since its quiet I'll pose a question.

To the Jordan,...uhhhh..... supporters:Since you see the "no hand checking" rule as an advantage to Kobe on offense and a reason for his big scoring spree's, and the allowance of hand-checking as a detriment to MJ scoring 81 or 50+ in 4 straight games,

will you then give Kobe more credit as a defender considering he can't "hand check" making it harder to keep players in front of him, and/or give MJ less credit on defense because he could use hand-checking?  

In light of last nights game I'd like to amend my previous post from "possibly" getting the Lakers into the playoffs to Kobe "getting" the young, injury riddled Lakers into the playoffs, scoring another 50pts, shooting 72% from the field (Uh humm!), 50% from 3pt territory.

As far as people saying Kobe should be MVP beacuse of the 50+pt games. I didn't see any posts in this thread saying that, but if said elsewhere maybe they meant the 50+ pt games were the icing on the cake that pushes him to the top of the list, not the only thing. Its not like he was having a bad season except when scoring 50+. But I can't speak for them.