Conclusion: Even your hero agrees with me that it's unfair to say who is The Greatest of all time. I can list several who say its not MJ, or you can't compare over different era's.

I never said MJ was not the greatest, like him I agree it's really not fair to. That's my AND MJ'S opinion. I never said Kobe was better than MJ, except on offense, and gave good reasons why.

Once again you don't respond to anything I say, like point 4 for example). How can I take you seious.

Most of what I wrote was done with a laugh/smile because I like B-Ball. Like guys in a Barber shop discussing Ali/ Frazier or whatever........just for fun. MJ is the greates for you and others, fine! do you have to make up stuff on Kobe to express your love for MJ?

The smartest thing you said was your last paragraph, its useles for me to continue because guys aren't listening and do not respond to diret points.

It's been real! 

Why am I not responding to ur posts!!!! Everty time I knock one of you and ya boy IT is I lame points out the ball park you don't respond directly to my WISDOM! Now, pay attention in school! Hey juju, It-is-I! stop playing paddie-cake in the back of my room!

1)LOL his whole post was about the best team ever and u talking about kobe and MJ LMAO thats when the FACTS are right in ur face u change the topic.LMAOOOOOOOOOOOM13- The title of this forum is "Jordan is the greatest" not The Bulls. But even with that I did respond to his post( I respond directly, unlike some little girls I know!)...I don't have a problem if U clowns want to say the Bulls are the Greatest TEAM! Pay attention.

2) It-is totally raped u with the "FACTs"and u turn it into "ohh Mj had alot of help and didn't lead his teamM13- Your boyfriend didn't rape anyone , he played(with) himself. Again he only made my point, The Bulls succeeded as a team! I never said MJ didn't lead his team in the post you quoted, what is that!!?, don't make it up as you go! In another post, I truthfully stated MJ was not a leader the first part of his career.

3) "The 1996 bulls would beat showtime no problem." M13-Jabbar, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, B. Scott....etc, yeah, right "no problem" ! This is not even worth responding to. Ridiculous statement, am I debating pre-schoolers here!?? Hey, whats your favorite color?!

4) "I have said it a million times that Jordan's high scoring performances were nights where he shot 60-80% from the field in his prime, Kobe's high scoring nights in most cases he takes 35-45 shots and shoots for under 45%...."M13 Why do u kids keep lobbing softballs at me, haven't u learned ur rolling with the big dog by now!? I don't have time to deal with anything but this year and Kobe's 81 point game.

Kobe: 3/23 50 pts (16-29), 55%,   3/22 60 pts (20-37), 54%,  3/18 50 pts (17-35), 48%, 
3/16 65 pts (23-39),59%,  ....81pts(28-46), 61%   Stop lying on Kobe!

By the way since u like numbers...  if take career points per minute Kobe scores at a rate of 1.47 pts/per minute, MJ at a rate of 1.27 pts per minute. As I stated Kobe is a better scorer than MJ. Go ahead check it, as of today KB-28,212mins, 19,145pts...MJ- 41,011mins, 32,292pts.  points per minute is the only way to fairly analyze the above,,,I could explain it but it is simple and obvious.

5)"Kobe is a bigger ballhog...." M13 Fact: Kobe Career field goal attempts= 18.79, MJ= 22.88(2nd highest ever) Now, who did you say was the ball hog! Facts don't back u up homey! Wanna get deeper? MJ shot 4 more times a game than KB. lets say KB takes those shots and he hits 45% of them, his career fg%. 45% of 4 is 1.8. So Kobe hits 1.8 more shots a game. Lets say they are only 2 pointers. 2 x 1.8=3.6, with me knuckleheads!? That means KB would add 3.6 more points to his career average of 24.5 (if he shot as much as MJ), which ='s 28.1ppg, Not as far behind MJ, and he's not even done yet. Aagin on a per minute basis(a fairer look) Kobe scores at a higher rate. Recess girls, potty break anyone?? 

6)"Not to mention a lot of MJ's best games he literally shot 70-80% in his prime."M13-Please list those games. Its ridiculous any way, because in a lot of those game he shot30-40% too. Thats why you have to go by "averages" knucklehead!

7) "KOBE WILL NEVER COME CLOSE TO MICHAEL'S 33.45 CAREER PLAYOFF PPG AVG, kobe has 9 seasons under 30 points per game, kobe has 11 seasons under 47% shooting"  M13- Kobe was on a team when he did not have to carry the scoring load mostly by himself. Now that he does look at what he is scoring! Kobe has already shot 981 more 3 pointers than MJ did in his whole career! 3pt% is figured into over-all field goal %. The more 3's you shoot your average % typically goes down. MJ's is fairly comparable to Kobes only because of the much lower amount taken ! Go look at the NBA 3pt % leaders, the highest ones rae typically the ones who don't shoot as much!

8) Maybe if you and your playmate got together the 2 of you could mount a better challenge to me, for now I'm just having a little fun. I don't have kids but this has to be the next best thing to playing with them! ha,ha,ha.  Look dudes, if you want to worship Michael "the travelin' mofo" Jordan, its your right. Just don't keep putting a bunch of crap up here for me to destroy like Kobe dropping 81 on the Raptors! School is dismissed ! I think MJ is calling you anyway, he needs another "back-rub" You clowns or lucky I'm a nice guy! Peace. 

It-is-I, the head JordanJocker! : )  Just joking with you. lighten up !

Nice book report! And thanks! Thanks for making my point that the Bulls were a great T E A M ! MJ did not take a bunch of scrubs to 6 rings! As I said the Bulls were a well put tgether team with the right TYPE  of roll players to put around MJ's and Pippen's immense talent! They had a good formula with the right type of coach and system in place to get the max out of the players.

I have no problem with anything U said about the Bulls TEAM! But when u(or whoever) knock Kobe because he can't march to the Title with the youngest, most injury riddled team in the NBA...then I have problem, thats unfair, right?!(Look, there's a question mark there!!). When you knock Kobe for the same things MJ did at some point in his career......I have a problem.

Please read any of my posts and tell me where I've been a Kobe Crackhead as opposed to making intelligent counter points to the Jordan Jockers. You can compare MJ and Kobe skill wise, that's all u can do, most "achievements" are team oriented.

Thanks also for not responding to the Lakers in decline point or most other points I've made,..... at least you're consistent.

 I was not hired, never said I was . I was doing my "job" out of compassion.    

juju: Dude, once ahhhhhhgain! I never said Utah or the other teams the Bulls beat were "push-overs" or weak..etc. I said they were not as good as the Celtics, Lakers, & 76'ers in their prime, imo. The 6 rings the Bulls won are legit, because you have to beat whoever is in front of you. The Big O was as good a talent as anyone but happened to play during the great Celtic teams and a giant in Wilt. So "O" only got one ring. Competition matters. If MJ came into the league the same time as Bird and Magic, MJ would not have 6 rings. (IMO the Showtime Lakers would straight WAX  the Bulls).

You Jordan Jockers love to point out the advantages others had. "Kobe has no hand checking", "Wilt was a giant", "Oscar played in the era of different rules, ...bla, bla, bla. But maaaaan, don't let someone point out an advantage MJ had, nooooooo!

You JJ's(jordanjockers) criticize Kobe for games where he had 0 assists, but when I find games where MJ had 0 assists you say"oh I meant where he shot a bad FG% too", or "why are we talking about assists?"(BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT IT UP!). Someone says Kobe shot a "pathetic" 35%, and shoots 50 times a game, wrong on both accounts, but when I call him on it theres no retraction or admission of being wrong! You criticize Kobe for being a bad/selfish teammate, when I find times when MJ was that way you say "oh that was in his early days, he got better". Well Kobe has too but no credit from the JJ's! Can we get some consistency/fairnes.....please!!!!

All n all I know all this(including the site I posted) has helped some of you become better/deeper thinkers. You must know the best of your opponents position in order to formulate your best response.  Your welcome! My job here is done...ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,!!!!!!!   

It-is-I

1) You don't let the truth "slide", it is what it is , MJ punched Kerr(no big deal to me) but you said he did not, at least admit it.  2) 90-91 season when the Bulls beat the Lakers(4-1). The Lakers did not have K. Jabbar(retired), Michael Cooper(retired), Pat Riley(Stepped down in previous off season), the Lakers did not have Worthy and Byron Scott in the final game. Lakers did not win the Pacific Division as usual that year,(Portland did), Lakers got past the 1st 2 teams in the playoffs, but were underdogs against Portland! Because of the great Magic Johnson and Worthy they beat Portland to get to the finals. If you don't call the 90-91 Lakers a decline from the Show Time Lakers with Jabbar, Magic, Cooper(defensive stopper), healthy Worthy, B. Scott then your the one thats smoking something!!! I never said Utah and whoever else the Bulls beat for rings were weak teams, I said they were not as good as the Celtics, Lakers, 76'ers in their prime. Detroit was in their prime when The Bulls beat them, which is why I didn't include them.

3) Are you honestly saying Kwame Clown can shoot better than Kerr/Paxson!!!!Stop it!!. I did'nt even mention athleticism!. Please, Kwame Clown can barely hold on to the ball!!......gee thanks MJ, nice draft pick! And Shaqclown O'neal! don't even get me started on his lazy A double S !! He has a another ring because of Wade, and timely shots by G Payton and others, not to mention good play by Alonzo Mourning!. Mourning led the team in blocks that year and he came off the bench  !!!!! Now Shaq wants to get in shape finally and play ball. He should have done that his last years in L.A., he got his own self fired!by being over weight and lazy ! Most dominant! what!!?? That clown has NEVER LED THE NBA IN REBOUNDS!!!! NEVER! Why not since he is the biggest, most atheletic, most dominant center ever !???? Please! If Kobe is a ball hog MJ was also! Try again! 

4)You don't know what Kobe will win. 5)Kobe is the most feared player today. several have said it. Try pulling your head for "ear deep" in MJ's....well, ok I'll be nice..ha,ha. But maybe you would hear it then also.

Jordan DID NOT COME INTO THE LEAGUE A LEADER!!!!! Darn!!! I already covered this!!!! He was an egotitical maniac, ball hog, who got his coach fired...etc!!! God! people, come on, be reasonable! Stop sugar coating MJ career! How did the Bulls only loose 2 more games when MJ retired!!? If he was sooo important! They didn't make it to the finals because of a horrible call, check your history!  What, no Jordan, no championship?!!!  Well no Pippen no championship  either ! 

4) When I said I'm sure I could find games where MJ had 0 assists, shot a bad %, I was not talking about doing both in the same games. Thats my counter to you listing games in which Kobe shot bad or had 0-3 assists.   MJ did the same things! God !!!! : ) my head hurts!! 

I don't know what MJ fg% was in those games. In most of Kobes big games he shot well also.

I didn't consider the age of MJ. it ain't that deep for me. In some of those game s he was young enough. If he was old enough to score big, he was old enough to get an ASSIST, but didn't ! Don't praise him for scoring big at an older age but let him slide on assists! See definition of hating!

My personal definition of "Hater". A person is a Hater if he/she:

Doesn't give credit where credit is due.(whether he likes someone or not)

Reports falsehoods as truth, without doing research. 

Doesn't repond to fair, logical, negative points about his "guy".

Only picks certain points to debate and looks past ones that can't be disputed.

Only states  the positive points about his "guy".  

Won't admit when they're wrong.

Doesn't hold his favorite player to the same standard/criteria as those he doesn't like.

* Telling the truth is not hating, I don't care if someone doesn't like Kobe or thinks MJ's the best, but to report falsehoods as truth or holding Kobe to a different standard ain't cool.

juju my main man!!!!!

About the site I posted...Iknow the guy comes off as a MJ hater, but if the Devil said its wrong to murder, that would be a true statement, no matter what the source, right?

I would hope open minded people seeking truth would examine his content and from there. I don't agree with everything on the site but he does make good points about some things. And he does support his opinion with facts , numbers etc. Whether he likes MJ or not is irrevalent, can you open mindly read and disprove the content on the site is more important, agreed??

2.This is ridiculous. I post examples to show the rate at which Kobe can score, which MJ did not do and you keep throwing game stats at me that don't prove me wrong. MJ could not score at the same rate Kobe can on a game to game basis, period. I'm done with this point.

3.Obviously you ain't listening(reading). Each era has advantages/disadvantages, period. Done with this point too.

4.Think again: 96-97 Nov 6, @Miami MJ had 50pts, 0(zero) assists, 96-97 Jan 23, @clev, MJ had 32pts 0(zero) assists, 97-98 Dec 29, Dallas, MJ had 41pts 0(zero) assists! 97-98 Mar 29 @Mil, MJ had 30pts 0(ZERO) ASSISTS!, 02-03, @Orl., 16pts, 0(zero) assists!!!! I'll leave the last off cause I'm a nice guy. http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/gamebygame/gamelog19961997.htm

5.In your opinion.

6. MJ was the biggest beneficiary of the "phantom foul". Thats why in the group photo for the olympic Dream Team when Magic(I think) bumped into MJ he joked that it would be a foul. I really don't care about this point, it is what it is.

7. If its soooo easy to score like Kobe does why is he the only one doing it??? Kobe has been taken out of complete 4th quarters when he had 50+, 60+ points, because the game was out of hand. Stop it!

i hope you aren't defending that thing because if you are you are just a jordan hater rather than an objective fan.  And by the fact that you actually told me to look at that has me leaning that you are bias towards kobe and not objective.  That was honestly the dumbest thing i've read.  "96-98 Jordan had no business being all defensive player".  I minored in english in college and that quote right there would get you failed in a class.  You can't state something like that in an opinon based manner with no support.  Why shouldn't he have, because you say so?  that's obsered.  I have no respect for anyone who feels they have to bash the competitor in order to make their side look better.  It's like politics.  If you are the best you don't need to bring up dirt on your opponent.  That's why i respect people like bill mahr who, when talking about things like politics, show no bias and state the facts for both sides.  And that is how i feel i am w/ this topic.  I am objective in realizing you can't compare eras, however IN MY OPINION, Jordan is the best i ever saw.  But if you support that crap in the link you sent, then that is just stupid.  it was all opinions and no support.  I could come up with something like that and say the exact opposite in favor of Jordan and it still wouldn't be, in any way, credible.  I'm begining to wonder if i'm the only person on this board that gives an HONEST OBJECTIVE OPINION W/ NO BIAS TOWARDS ANY INDIVDUAL PLAYER.  Which is a shame, cause if that's the case i shouldn't have posted in the first place because no matter how many facts you lay out there, you can never compete w/ a fan.sixringz1

OMG!!, Dude, here I thought you were the only reasonable person here, but my God!! 1st of all I simply asked you to check it out, becasue I respected your opinion. I never said it was gospel or how much of it I agree with. 2nd, Did you click on the statements in "blue" where the guy does give support for his beliefs??!!. 3rd, the only thing I am biased for is TRUTH. Go back and read any of my posts and tell me where I am biased as opposed to truthful.....please!! 4th, You are criticizng his english on a freakin' sports site instead of the "meat" of his position, which is there! Is that an example of "college arrogance?? He wasn't writing War & Peace! 5th To imply that I am "stupid" if I support info on a site that you apparently did not fully check out is not fair or good debate tactics.(college arrogance??). 6th If you think you are the only person that gives "honest objective opinion" you have not read my posts , or those of some others. Is this another example of College arrogance (just asking)? 7th This is the 2nd time  you mentioned college, well I did not go to college, sorry. So maybe you can tell me...what the Hades are they teaching there lately !!!!??? 

Now, the award winning site I posted is FILLED with supporting facts if you look. After all this I am still interested in your opinion, if you don't mind.... http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/index.htm  By the way I like Bill Mahr also.