By the way ... I don't care what anyone says .... Kobe Bryant is a ball hog, cocky no class jerk and he will NEVER be better than Jordan. Michael Jordan won games and was a team player. Bryant will NEVER win another title. He doesn't have Shaq to fall back on for help. JDW_games

JDW, you can insert Jordan's name instead of Kobe's and you would be right. During his career MJ was a ball-hog, cocky, no class jerk. Before he got good players around him he was not a TEAM PLAYER! During those years people said Jordan would never win a ring! Kobe is right where MJ was at that time, on a bad team, but Kobe has MATURED.

What you hate in Kobe you love in MJ!

I understood the post about "hand checking" when it was first posted. Its just not fair to only consider the disadvantages MJ had.  I just like to point out the obvious inconsistencies in the "MJ's the greatest" camp. Some are so biased for MJ that they continue to state falsehoods as truth: Examples- "Kobe shoots 35% from the field", "Kobe shoots 50 times a game", "Kobe shot 74 times in one game"(maybe a typo), "Kobes still a selfish jerk"...(he has grwon if you look), "MJ made his teammates better" ..(not when he had a bad team around him)...etc

Now Kobe doesn't have that dominant center to draw attention and he's still killin' people even more so! He doesn't face the zone in every game or all game and he's still killin' people, they've played every defense known to man against Kobe and he's still killin people! If it was so easy because of the "no hand check rule" or what ever advantage people consider Kobe to have then T.Mac, Lebron, Iverson, Melo', Arenas, V. Carter, Garnet...somebody else would have dropped 81, 55 in a half(twice) , 62 in 3 quarters, 4 straight 50+ games..etc. But only one man has done it...The Black Mamba! Kobe Bryant

One day people will realize how good Kobe is. Seriously! 81 points in a game(no matter who its against), from a 2 guard spot is almost in-human! They were down 18 points in the 3rd quarter!, Kobe brings them back to win, scoring 55 in the 2nd half!, shooting 62% from the field on only 46 shots! That's better than Wilts 100 pt game(in 69 shots I believe)! That game Wilts team would foul to stop the clock so they could get the ball back to give it to Wilt, and he was the biggest man out there by far, playing mostly under the basket. But all some could say about the 81pt game is "yeah, but Kobe had only 2-3 assists"!!!! You don't pass the ball when your that hot, you shoot until you cool off, he never did. His team and coach wanted him to shoot, they were getting spanked, until Kobe exploded!

I agree you can't compare era's, that's been one of my main points. I respect the opinions of others also but more if based in facts, without bias. I've had this debate before too, in this forum a year or 2 ago. Then I got mostly the same thing as now, falsehoods about Kobe, exaggerations of MJ's exploits, unwillingness to give KB any credit....etc. I can't respect that! also very rarely would anyone respond directly to all of my points or questions, they would pick and choose what they thought were the easy ones(didn't work though).

Since you seem to be fair minded check out this sight. I'd be interested in your opinion

 http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/index.htm

sizringz1:

But anyone who has played B-ball knows its harder to get to the basket against a zone defense.

Anyone who has played knows its harder to hit a three pointer when the line is further out.

Anyone who has played knows when you have a dominant center to play with, you have to share the ball more , thus your scoring will be limited, compared to MJ who didn't have that.

Why don't you consider Kobe's disadvantages when comparing him to MJ ??????????

juju: 

1) Kobe never took 74 shots, I guess meant 47, his career high in fga's. MJ took 49 shots  in his 64 point game.

2) I gave MJ credit for his 61 point game in regulation in my last post, his 5th game on the list I have.

3) Lack of defense/hand-checking ain't got nothing to do with Kobe's scoring binges! They just can't stop him! How no one else is doing what Kobe is doing!!!! And AGAIN MJ did not have to play against the zone defense which would limit his drives to the basket, Kobe does! Also the 3 point line was closer during a part of the MJ era. EVERY ERA HAS ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES!

4) I see you didn't comment on MJ's 1 assist games, but if Kobe does it the MJ jocjers are all over him. I'm sure I can find games where your hero MJ had 0 assists and shot abad fga%.

5) I never said Kobe is better than MJ, but MJ ain't the best either. NOBODY IS! Which is better a Rolls Royce or a model T Ford? Rolls Royce you say? Really? Well Before the Rolls Royce was the Model T, before the Model T was the horse ! Which is the greater leap in technology??? Stop with all this MJ is better than crap, its all relative! 

6) If you think MJ did not benefit from ref calls, more than most, your trippin'. I wasn't talking about the OBVIOUS push off against Utah. I'm talking about most of his career...its well known, he got very favorable calls from the refs. It doesn't take away from his greatness its just fact.

Once again, on a game to game basis MJ could not score at the rate that Kobe can, its pretty obvious to open minded individuals.

Kobe is no longer the brash, selfish, young man seeking to prove himself. At 28-29 he has grown and matured as most men do. He follows his coaches lead and has the support and respect of his teammates.

People want to think of him as he was and hold him at that time forever beacuse they can't conceive of him challenging MJ or being as good a player.

Its simply pure, unadulterated, uncut KOBE HATING!

Re-posted because I got no response from  juju!:

Hey JuJu, my man!!!! What the hades are you reading!!!! Pay attention in school please : )! I have MJ's 39, 50+ point games. I know what he did. I said his top 4 (thats FOUR, 2+2,) 4! games came in over time and double overtime!Let me break it down for you, AGAIN! The most MJ ever scored was 69, 64, 63 AND 61, they all came in OVERE-TIME, the 63 point game was in double over-time.  He needed o.t. in those 4 games and still didn't hit 70, let alone 81! The fitfh game on the list MJ got 61 in regulation, wow! Kobe got 62 in 3 quarters(actually 33mins!!) against Dallas(a good team by the way) a year or so ago. In Kobe's 81 point game, 55 was in the 2nd half! In a previous 55 point game Kobe got 42 in the 2nd half! Let me say it again obviously you were playing in ****..MJ could not, and did not drop 81, not even 71, even when he had double over time to do it.!!! Kobe's a better scorer, PERIOD!!!!

By the way Homey, and all other Jordan Jockers, listen good !!! In MJ's 64 point game he had 1 ASSIST!, in one of his  61 point games MJ had 1 ASSIST!!!! Please don't say anything else about Kobe's assists in big games!

If you think Kobe can't score big on good teams you simply ain't watching. And this crap about Kobe facing easier defenses is BUNK! Everyone has seen Kobe hit absolutly, ridiculously, amazing shots with guy(s) in his jersey!, they just can't stop him! Coaches have said they have tried every defense known to man, including box and 1, but it don't matter when he's on a roll! Again MJ didn't have to face the zone and also had the refs in his back pocket and in his kitchen fixing his breakfast(when you weren't doing it JuJu, ha,ha). There are advantages /disadvantages in every era, including MJ's.

Don't bother listing MJ good games, there were plenty of times when he went 8 for 25 or something like it. Notice I'm not on Kobe's jock, just shooting down the myths about MJ with facts! Now go do your home work !!!!!

"LMAO u can't be serious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veO0furYNwE (50pts u forget this huh no OT?)How about this spanking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdmKXTUF4wE 61pts  of the pistons that they had to devise the MJ rules(They just hack him all day with hand checking which kobe doesn't have to take on because of the new rules so he got it easier FAACT) and do u know how much Mj drops in the playoffs without OT?MJ plays like a monster in the playoffs and the regular season is practice for him.I agree Kobe can shoot the 3 better, but there mid range shots arr the same and Mj makes the three if he has to.Ok watch this one where he went 21-27,2stls,2blks,6asts,,4 rebs LMAO Kobe doesn't even get 3 asts+ when he goes for 60. MONSTER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7S76yjxSWE&mode=related&search= (No OT) I can find millions of other vids with this and playoff gms (which are more intense defensivly) that he drops 50+.MJ is also the better slasher and all kobe got is a litle bit better at taking 3s.MJ drops 50s on good teams while kobe drop fifty on wack teams who doesn't use hand checking.Let me sa it again since u didn't get it the first time Mj could drop 80 if he wanted too and if he played in his prime now he would drop it regularly."

Hey JuJu, my man!!!! What the hades are you reading!!!! Pay attention in school please : )! I have MJ's 39, 50+ point games. I know what he did. I said his top 4 (thats FOUR, 2+2,) 4! games came in over time and double overtime!Let me break it down for you, AGAIN! The most MJ ever scored was 69, 64, 63 AND 61, they all came in OVERE-TIME, the 63 point game was in double over-time.  He needed o.t. in those 4 games and still didn't hit 70, let alone 81! The fitfh game on the list MJ got 61 in regulation, wow! Kobe got 62 in 3 quarters(actually 33mins!!) against Dallas(a good team by the way) a year or so ago. In Kobe's 81 point game, 55 was in the 2nd half! In a previous 55 point game Kobe got 42 in the 2nd half! Let me say it again obviously you were playing in ****..MJ could not, and did not drop 81, not even 71, even when he had double over time to do it.!!! Kobe's a better scorer, PERIOD!!!!

By the way Homey, and all other Jordan Jockers, listen good !!! In MJ's 64 point game he had 1 ASSIST!, in one of his  61 point games MJ had 1 ASSIST!!!! Please don't say anything else about Kobe's assists in big games!

If you think Kobe can't score big on good teams you simply ain't watching. And this crap about Kobe facing easier defenses is BUNK! Everyone has seen Kobe hit absolutly, ridiculously, amazing shots with guy(s) in his jersey!, they just can't stop him! Coaches have said they have tried every defense known to man, including box and 1, but it don't matter when he's on a roll! Again MJ didn't have to face the zone and also had the refs in his back pocket and in his kitchen fixing his breakfast(when you weren't doing it JuJu, ha,ha). There are advantages /disadvantages in every era, including MJ's.

Don't bother listing MJ good games, there were plenty of times when he went 8 for 25 or something like it. Notice I'm not on Kobe's jock, just shooting down the myths about MJ with facts! Now go do your home work !!!!!

Come on people! Everytime someone lists an area where they feel Kobe is better than MJ somebody says being better in that 1 area doesn't make Kobe better, stop it please! Surely you see the point.  Dale Ellis and the others you mentioned, pretty much they're only claim to fame was outside shooting, DARN!(for lack of a better term) Give Kobe some credit he's waaaaaaaaaaay better than those guys! Get off of MJ's acorns! ha,ha,ha.

You can find articles on either side of the Kobe/MJ issue, here's a good one in favor of Kobe.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326

You can find articles on either side of the Kobe/MJ issue.... here's a good one in kobe's favor.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326

"Kobe isn't the better scorer.MJ is like 3rd all-time in scoring WTH are u talking about better scorer?MJ could of drop 80 pts in the 90s, but he had to share the ball too much with his other good players.MJ averages 5.3APG and kobe averages 4.5APG.Mj has a better career shooting percentage and has the second most steals ever.The only reason he isn't first all-time in steals because of the years he missed.He averged more steals then stockton, but he played less gms"

MJ's top 4 scoring games came in over time, one of those was in double O.T.:

69 pts on 37 fga's in ot,  64pts on 49 fga's in ot,  63 pts on 41 fga's in 2 0t's , 61pt's on 39 fga's in ot, 2 were in 1986/87 when he didn't have to "share the ball". Trust me, if MJ could have scored 81 he would have, he couldn't,  he didn't have the range on his J like Kobe.  Kobe: 81 points on 46 shots in regulation, time doesn't permit me to list Kobe's other big games in reglation, or Kobe's 40 point averages for a month, done 2 or 3 times, I believe the only player to do that. Didn't Kobe get 52 in a half, 62 in 3 quaters against Dallas???? Kobe is a BAD MAN and a better scorer than MJ. Give him that. 

The only reason MJ's fga is higher is Kobe shoots many more long range shots than MJ. L.A did not have to play a rookie out of highschool on the established team they had. So Kobe only played 14mins and 20mins per game his 1st 2 years so of course his assist average is lower. If you start at Kobe's 3rd year when he got starters minutes Kobe and MJ are very comparable in assists, both 5+, even dopping MJ 2nd yr when he was hurt. And Kobe is not even done yet, as his team matures he will get more assists.   (5.3assists to 4.5assists,  wow ! MJ is smoking Kobe in assists!!! huh? Even with sharpshooters on his team MJ only averaged .8 more assists than Kobe! )

I already gave MJ the edge on defense, but face it MJ can't stroke it like Kobe!!!!!  (Please don't throw MJ 3pt % at me, I know it, but he shot no where near the number of 3's Kobe does. Kobe is a threat from much further out tha nMJ. That's why MJ shrugged when he hit some on Portland that series, even he couldn't believe it.)