[QUOTE="sonicare"]Nintendo has done a horrible job with the supply.mjarantilla

They're shipping more each month than any other console has in history.

I don't see how that's possible. Someone said they are shipping 1 Million per month. If the PS2 shipped less than that then there's no mathematical way it would have sold 100 Million, which it did.

[QUOTE="ironwarrior2"]

The main problem with the wiimote is the lag between the movement and the on screen action which makes the wii unplayable. the main feature of the wii doesnt even work right@!

nintendofreak_2

He might also be experiencing some lag if he's using an HDTV, especially if it only accepts 1080i signals. The TV would require the incoming signal to be both upscaled and interlaced (assuming he's feeding 480p from the Wii). This can, and does, introduce a noticable amount of lag. However, it is not caused by the Wiimote itself.

[QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Yeah, but you're an audio/videophile, or as close to one as I've found on these forums. The majority of people would not notice.mjarantilla

See, I cannot understand that mentality at all. I don't stop midway through a game on my PS2 and think, "Wow, the sound really sucks. I wish this had Dolby Digital." (Well, I did stop and think, "The sound sucks," for FFXII, but only because it seemed like the voices were recorded in a tin can. O_o)

Personally, I think that the people who "demand more" are just asking for a placebo. It's one thing to have surround sound for a movie; a movie is a passive experience, so your senses are more open. But a game is an interactive experience, and and your senses are focused mainly on your own actions. The importance of passive sensory enhancements like surround sound drops greatly.

I understand the point you are trying to make. But for me the sound isn't nearly as passive as you are making it out to be. In many current FPS I rely on 3D sound to get a feel for the game. Hearing gunfire behind me or to my side is a much more realistic way to discern enemy locations than visual cues on the screen (or rumble as in some games). In that sense, the sound evolves into an active aspect of the game rather than passive.

Yeah, but you're an audio/videophile, or as close to one as I've found on these forums. The majority of people would not notice.

mjarantilla

You know, I think that what bugs me most about the Wii. It's made for most people. It's sort of dumbed down in a way that keeps it from appealing to a lot of people who demand a lot more. Not to say it isn't fun. My wife and I own one and the games are truly entertaining and definitely worth the $250 of the system. However, there are simply some genres that the Wii simply can't rise to the occasion with in our home.

[QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="TimeToPartyHard"][QUOTE="ramey70"]

So in summary, holding a remote control and aiming it at the screen is totally immersive and nearly realistic enough to qualify you as a licensed firearm carrier while 3D sound, ever improving realistic visual settings, and true physics have no immersion value of their own.

Have I got it?

mjarantilla

For the last time, movement is more immersive than visuals and physics. If visuals and physics were that immersive you'd have much more fun watching television programs, especially sports and such. But getting to throw a ball or swing a bat, is much more involving and immersive. Physics and visuals just make it more believable, not more immersive than direct interaction. A mixture of them would be ideal, but that hasn't been done yet.

I totally disagree. Immersiveness is all about tricking the mind and senses. All of them. If I'm using a Wiimote to control black stick figures on a white background on the screen it's far less immersive than using an old Atari 2600 joystick with one button and 4 axis points with modern visuals. You've also totally neglected the point of audio. A properly setup surround system, and made useful by developers, can create more immersiveness than even control and visuals. When you are playing a game, especially FPS, and hear the sound of footsteps or gunfire behind you and physically turn your head around that's immersiveness. Your ears tell you there's something behind you and you look. But it's the game. And when you turn your field of view in the game that sound that was once behind you is now in front. You can hear bullets whiz by your head in the sound field. You can feel your chest pound from the bass generated by a firing gun, explosion, or vehicle. The Wiimote cannot duplicate that tricking of the senses.

ever played Eternal Darkness? The Wii is fine

/convo

Does it support Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1?

Only Dolby Pro Logic II, but honestly you don't really care while playing the game. Even on a 5.1 surround system, like what I have.

I would care. Because I would notice.

[QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="TimeToPartyHard"][QUOTE="ramey70"]

So in summary, holding a remote control and aiming it at the screen is totally immersive and nearly realistic enough to qualify you as a licensed firearm carrier while 3D sound, ever improving realistic visual settings, and true physics have no immersion value of their own.

Have I got it?

mjarantilla

For the last time, movement is more immersive than visuals and physics. If visuals and physics were that immersive you'd have much more fun watching television programs, especially sports and such. But getting to throw a ball or swing a bat, is much more involving and immersive. Physics and visuals just make it more believable, not more immersive than direct interaction. A mixture of them would be ideal, but that hasn't been done yet.

I totally disagree. Immersiveness is all about tricking the mind and senses. All of them. If I'm using a Wiimote to control black stick figures on a white background on the screen it's far less immersive than using an old Atari 2600 joystick with one button and 4 axis points with modern visuals. You've also totally neglected the point of audio. A properly setup surround system, and made useful by developers, can create more immersiveness than even control and visuals. When you are playing a game, especially FPS, and hear the sound of footsteps or gunfire behind you and physically turn your head around that's immersiveness. Your ears tell you there's something behind you and you look. But it's the game. And when you turn your field of view in the game that sound that was once behind you is now in front. You can hear bullets whiz by your head in the sound field. You can feel your chest pound from the bass generated by a firing gun, explosion, or vehicle. The Wiimote cannot duplicate that tricking of the senses.

You're talking about end-user immersion. All those extra features you're talking about depend entirely on the end user to purchase the necessary equipment to achieve that level of immersion. But not everyone has or wants that equipment.

All true, but all the exra equipment in the world won't help the Wii create that sense of immersion. Not so with the PC, 360, or PS3. Further, call me elitist if you want, but to me a properly setup digital sound system is just as important as having an TV, HDTV (or computer monitor), etc.

[QUOTE="ramey70"][QUOTE="TimeToPartyHard"][QUOTE="ramey70"]

So in summary, holding a remote control and aiming it at the screen is totally immersive and nearly realistic enough to qualify you as a licensed firearm carrier while 3D sound, ever improving realistic visual settings, and true physics have no immersion value of their own.

Have I got it?

kansasdude2009

For the last time, movement is more immersive than visuals and physics. If visuals and physics were that immersive you'd have much more fun watching television programs, especially sports and such. But getting to throw a ball or swing a bat, is much more involving and immersive. Physics and visuals just make it more believable, not more immersive than direct interaction. A mixture of them would be ideal, but that hasn't been done yet.

I totally disagree. Immersiveness is all about tricking the mind and senses. All of them. If I'm using a Wiimote to control black stick figures on a white background on the screen it's far less immersive than using an old Atari 2600 joystick with one button and 4 axis points with modern visuals. You've also totally neglected the point of audio. A properly setup surround system, and made useful by developers, can create more immersiveness than even control and visuals. When you are playing a game, especially FPS, and hear the sound of footsteps or gunfire behind you and physically turn your head around that's immersiveness. Your ears tell you there's something behind you and you look. But it's the game. And when you turn your field of view in the game that sound that was once behind you is now in front. You can hear bullets whiz by your head in the sound field. You can feel your chest pound from the bass generated by a firing gun, explosion, or vehicle. The Wiimote cannot duplicate that tricking of the senses.

ever played Eternal Darkness? The Wii is fine

/convo

Does it support Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1?

[QUOTE="ramey70"]

So in summary, holding a remote control and aiming it at the screen is totally immersive and nearly realistic enough to qualify you as a licensed firearm carrier while 3D sound, ever improving realistic visual settings, and true physics have no immersion value of their own.

Have I got it?

TimeToPartyHard

For the last time, movement is more immersive than visuals and physics. If visuals and physics were that immersive you'd have much more fun watching television programs, especially sports and such. But getting to throw a ball or swing a bat, is much more involving and immersive. Physics and visuals just make it more believable, not more immersive than direct interaction. A mixture of them would be ideal, but that hasn't been done yet.

I totally disagree. Immersiveness is all about tricking the mind and senses. All of them. If I'm using a Wiimote to control black stick figures on a white background on the screen it's far less immersive than using an old Atari 2600 joystick with one button and 4 axis points with modern visuals. You've also totally neglected the point of audio. A properly setup surround system, and made useful by developers, can create more immersiveness than even control and visuals. When you are playing a game, especially FPS, and hear the sound of footsteps or gunfire behind you and physically turn your head around that's immersiveness. Your ears tell you there's something behind you and you look. But it's the game. And when you turn your field of view in the game that sound that was once behind you is now in front. You can hear bullets whiz by your head in the sound field. You can feel your chest pound from the bass generated by a firing gun, explosion, or vehicle. The Wiimote cannot duplicate that tricking of the senses.