The question isn't should Nintendo's successor have Wii U or PS4 graphics, but rather PS4 (~$199) or ~"PS5" graphics and a higher price (~$399)

Nintendo's 3rd party support is not coming back if it had the same or greater level of hardware than PS5, Wii U still doesn't receive last gen ports to highlight the problem, their market isn't big enough, so a lower price is going to help with 3rd parties more so than parity of specs, just look at Vita getting better 3rd party support than Wii U and you'll see I'm right.

Ok, what we know they are doing:

• Combining hardware architectures and API (they will share at least some of their game libraries, if not the vast majority of them)
• Releasing first new device in 2016 (Iwata's comment about ~2 years from april)
• Using AMD (AMD's own comments about getting into the handheld market and Nintendo's architecture comments leads to AMD hardware IMO)
• Handheld first (while 3DS might be more successful than Wii U, it doesn't have a similar development environment to future hardware, this means it will continue to use more resources and delay other software)
• A console in 2017 exceeding PS4's hardware specs, should be quite possible at $199. (However a tablet controller might still be needed)
• If the handheld is using a touch screen, the console will need to use one as well, thus a tablet controller is probably not going to be optional.

Nintendo should be looking to price themselves downwards, they don't really have to replace these devices in the future, it could be more like the original gameboy, in that they keep redesigning the hardware, but they never really drop support for the original. The console will also probably be 4x as powerful as the handheld in raw numbers (not including clocks) What I am talking about here is driving different resolutions in the same architecture with the same performance; because this is likely the goal with these devices, the handheld being a qHD screen (quarter full HD) or 540p (basically vita resolution) is likely, as the console will probably target 1080p (it could support more than this most likely as any modern AMD card does, but this would be their target resolution for first party titles)

Likely specs for Handheld:

Low end $149 no Wii U BC

• AMD APU /w 2 AMD CPU cores (A57 ARM) and 2 CUs (128ALUs) built on 20nm or AMD's current processor node for 2016.
• RAM 1GB +10MB edram (2MB L2 and 8MB L3 APU cache)
• 8GB flash for OS + SD card slot

High end $199 /w Wii U BC

• AMD APU /w 4 AMD CPU cores (likely A57 ARM cores) and 4 CUs (256ALUs) built on 20nm or 14nm based on AMD's current (2016) mobile APU chips.
• RAM 2GB +36MB edram ( 4MB L2 and 32MB L3 APU cache)
• 8GB flash for OS and an SD card for added storage

Remember, the console will likely spec 4x these numbers, so it would look something like this:

Low end $199 /w Wii U BC and Gamepad

• AMD APU /w 8 CPU cores (A57 ARM) and 8 CUs (512ALUs) built on AMD's current processor node for 2017 (16nm or 14nm) GPU would be clocked higher than the handheld's GPU and would allow for added effects with 1ghz being likely, so 1Tflop of power (XB1 would be ~30% more powerful)
• RAM 8GB DDR4 +36MB edram (4MB L2 and 32MB L3 APU cache) density is higher on DDR4 and APUs benefit from the extra bandwidth a lot, it's lower power and would be cheaper than DDR3 at this point
• 32GB flash for OS and user + SD card slot and USB HDD external options

High end $249 /w Wii U BC and Gamepad

• AMD APU /w 8+ CPU cores and 16 CUs (1024ALUs) built on AMD's current processor node for 2017, GPU would be clocked higher than handheld, likely 1GHz or higher, giving it 2Tflops 10% more power than PS4.
• RAM 8GB to 16GB DDR4 +36MB edram (or more)
• 32GB to 64GB flash for OS with SD and USB storage options

There is certainly other things that could happen, these are likely set ups for the devices based on AMD products, Nintendo using an abstract layer means that customizing hardware won't yield similar results as before, so off the shelf parts are nearly guaranteed minus some light customization for specific hardware emulation.

Nintendo's goal should be to sell as much hardware as possible, release a single Devkit for both devices so developers build 1 game to release on both, this would combined their handheld and console market, which would greatly increase Nintendo's visibility to 3rd parties, just taking a quick look at the current generation hardware, these are the numbers:

• 3DS: ~45 Million
• PS4: 10 Million
• Vita: ~8 Million
• Wii U: ~7 Million
• XB1: ~5 Million

If Nintendo's current hardware was 1 architecture, developers would release one title for both devices at once, meaning that making a game for Nintendo's platform would target 52 Million gamers today, 3rd parties would also be able to bridge the gap of mobile and traditional gaming by targeting 3DS's successor and wouldn't worry about touch controls as Wii U's successor would still likely carry the gamepad. This is Nintendo's only real chance to get back 3rd parties, and even if they don't come, Nintendo droughts would be gone. Nintendo releases ~25 titles a year, this would increase resources and allow for even more titles yearly but even with just ~25 titles a year, that is ~2 titles a month + 3rd party and indie support (3rd party support Nintendo receives today, such as Sega, Namco, Ubisoft, Activision)

The above paragraph isn't really speculation, it is an analyst of Nintendo's stated plans and what fruits it would grow.

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/08/13/former-factor-5-employee-albert-chen-chats-with-us-about-rogue-squadron-lair-3ds-and-turrican/

Interesting stuff, some highlights include:
Microsoft was approached by Factor 5 to publish a Turrican reboot. Sixaxis was added to Lair late in it's development cycle and could have done better without it. Rogue Squadron (4?) was pitched to LucasArts before Lair, and he really wants to see a 3DS remake of Rogue Leader.

[QUOTE="Rude_Bwoii"]

[QUOTE="osan0"] why not?osan0

The gpu in the 360 and ps3 are 5 years old and the wii u is using a custom r700 from amd that has been die shrunk.

http://www.gustavhalling.com/2011/06/08/wiiu-thoughts-nintendos-new-console/

Gustav Halling (Dice Game Play Designer for BF3):

"But I know how much RAM the WiiU has and I have an idea of how much "we" developers would like to see in the next Xbox and PS4, and they differ a lot.

Still, the WiiU will be the most powerful console out there when it's released, BY FAR!
But I wonder for how long..."

Not a glowing review, but it should sit right at about half the performance of what everyone is expecting PS4/Xbox720 to be, which is to say PS2 vs Xbox.

Yeah nice specs and all, butt can it handle 2 Wii-U Remotes answer: NO :D

Recarnator

http://kotaku.com/5809706/nintendo-looking-into-games-that-support-two-new-controllers

It's not limited by the power of the console, only the wireless signal for Wii Tablets, they are looking into 2, and if they can get there, 2 3DS's will allow for 4swords:Zelda/FFCC type of play much easier then Gamecube did... and Miyamoto already said that 3DS can link in this way to the system easily, so it really depends on this second controller, I would imagine it will either take a resolution hit or lag, if it's lag, it might not be worth it. So yes I know about this, and I still think it won't matter much for 90% of Hard Core gamers who play FPS's over live all day.

still counting out the ps4 i see. you think sony will make that price high ever again after what happened with the ps3? look at the price of the vita for what they give you. imagine the ps4 being only $350-$400. it'll blow anything else out of the water.

dipsetboy17

The problem is, Wii U being 4 to 6 times more powerful than PS360, makes this impossible, even if the PS4 is 10 times more powerful then the Wii U, a similar size to PS3, and disperse 250watt TDP's, it would still only be twice as powerful as the Wii U, the Wii U will be cheaper, and casuals don't really care much about the move, it's basically a Wii HD with out the Nintendo titles that casuals actually bought the Wii for.

Also when PS4 comes out at 350/400, the Wii U will likely be at $299, $249. Sony will do well, maybe even as good as PS3 did this generation, but it won't be cutting edge, as PC's are about to go into a revolution in graphics (focus shifted away from consoles) and the only reason PC's can handle the new graphics will be 300Watt+ cards.

Unless PS4/x720 wait for 20nm GPU's in late 2014 (meaning 2015 launch) they won't have anything even close to a 580GTX, the best you could put in a console at 28nm with PS3 thermals is an HD6950 at best, which simply isn't light years ahead of the rumored HD4850.

This is wishfull thinking again. IBM said 45nm :lol:

A 4 core 45NM Power 7 at 3.5 Ghrz is 90 watts alone.

It must be a a super gimped power 7 gpu.

Do you really think the WiiU´s small casing can hold even 100watt power inside it.

Com64-2

It's not final hardware, and is a custom chip, what I said stands "even a gimped Power7 CPU at half Cell's speed, would crush Cell" (which makes sense, since Power 6 and 7 are both based on Cell with huge advancements.)

Also it's 42% bigger than Wii, with much better cooling (2 intakes on the side over the CPU/GPU and 1 large exhaust in the back) The Wii U should be able to handle at least 100Watts, but a custom cpu and gpu of the class I am talking about at 32nm would only need about 25-30Watts a piece, and no internal HDD will allow for the TDP to stay below 120Watts.

Wow this thread is miss informed, a power7 CPU will crush the PS3's Cell even at half the ghz. Power7 CPU's will power all 3 next gen consoles, PS4 is already to be rumored to use an 8 core version (most likely more for backwards compatiblity then anything else.)

here is some real Wii U speculation with facts/links and a Dice developer working on BF3 saying the Wii U is more powerful "BY FAR" then the current gen systems, even though he is wrong about the Zelda Demo being pre rendered (it's not, you can move the camera around and change lighting)

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28714734/wii-u-the-ps2-of-next-gen.?page=0

@SakusEnvoy

Very good post, I like it... Tablets have sold more then Kinect, the Wii has sold faster than Kinect as well, both together in our current public? if the console is above 350, you are probably right, but if it is sold at 350 and possibly under 400 with a wii sports type hype title. There will be no stopping Wii U's growth.

But let me get to what I think you are over looking in your post:

"The WiiU has a lot of catching up to do. The PS3 and 360 already have a 50+ million user install base,"This is actually something I'm completely aware of, even counting on it, if games can be ported over within a month, and you get the definitive version and a new way to play with the tablet (how many of you have gf's who want to watch glee? now you can play your game while she watches her show and look your even spending time together, until you break up because your relationship doesn't exist outside of that 6.2inch screen... Not to mention that when ps4/x720 comes out, Developers will be looking at a 20M+ install base on the Wii U, it's basically what would of happened this gen had Wii been a comparable HD console."

and have well-built and long-refined online architectures."Porting over games in weeks is a huge boom, and can only really be done if the console is more powerful seeing as how all the tools aren't advanced like they are on the 360/ps3"

Many core gamers are massively invested in these online architectures, plus all of their friends already use the systems they own to play multiplayer games. I don't think folks are so eager to leave those networks (especially as far as COD is concerned)."Call of duty elite comes to mind, you are able to have a seperate friends list outside of live with it, there is no reason the other publishers will lock you down to the console either, people do play more then COD, Assassin's creed for instance is huge to most gamers, and that is already coming to the console, and will likely have best in C-lass gameplay/graphics on the Wii U, people will upgrade, and enough people are let down about PSN, the Hackers have promised to do it again too, some people went out and bought 360's when it happened. If a new system was out with a better version with higher res and better frame rates... I see no reason why they wouldn't take the oppertunity to jump ship.

DX11 is not in hardware, it's just spec of features and they don't need DX11 to use them, OpenGL for example can use those features too

ShadowriverUB

R700 series was more powerful per watt/size of chip than the HD5000/6000 chips thanks to DX11, since Nintendo doesn't need DX11 and they have their own chip dev team made out of old si/artX members, they probably built the GPU out of the R700 series like originally reported and customized it with AMD to give it eye infinity (confirmed) and other features, hopefully some more tessilazation power was put into the chip, but seeing the trees in the garden demo made me worry less, because it's in there. (the R700 had the ability for it already, but only the 4770 and up versions of that card if I'm not mistaken)

I have an honest question. Why does no one believe the 360 and PS3 can't simply compete with with the WiiU, especially after each system gets an inevitable $50-100 price cut by next year? Why all this talk about a PS4 and 720?

SakusEnvoy

Well Dark Siders 2 was ported to Wii U in 5 weeks, it comes out in spring/summer (since it starts producting this october -Fact and will produce 1Million units a month -Fact, and will only need about 8Million units to launch world wide -Fact) so May/June... Which makes sense, since Dark Siders 2 is a launch title that comes out in spring of 2012 on the other consoles.

Basically if all games are easily ported to Wii U, it will get all multiplatform games, and have Nintendo exclusives and a tablet/wii brand to drive casual sales and force a huge early install base. Not to mention that the extra power will be used for basic stuff like 1080P or 60FPS where the other consoles will lack the power for it, pushing core gamers to the new platform to play their COD9. Especially when they have been burnt by PSN recently, my brother didn't know what to do with himself since he plays that game every day after work, he cleaned the crap out of his house though.

I've got to get some sleep (I work nights) I just wanted to post this because it was locked in the wii thread for being system wars related, so figured I wouldn't let all that hard work go to waste. Hope you guys enjoy it, I'll be back later if anyone has any questions as to what any of it means.